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Thread: We got problems in the future....

  1. #31
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    Vodin ... no, it's not slavery. Slavery is being forced to work without reparations or renumerations. It may be dictatorial but not slavery.


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  2. #32
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    I will make this easy. I don't believe government should subsidize anything, or give ANY money or aid to individuals. The federal government has very few powers that are given to it by the federal government, and that is all it should do. Nothing with education, nothing with healthcare, nothing with businesses (except to remove lots of regulation). People and private groups need to help each other out. Shriner's hospital, Texas children's hospital are perfect examples. Private organizations are 1000's of times better at doing things. I don't need the government stealing money out of my check, damn sure not at the levels yall have to pay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caveman Survival View Post
    Vodin ... no, it's not slavery. Slavery is being forced to work without reparations or renumerations. It may be dictatorial but not slavery.


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    Yes it is slavery, I am being forced to work for free. I make X amount of dollars per hour, the feds take a portion of that without my consent, it is either slavery, or theft.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caveman Survival View Post
    Helo - You are talking constitution, I am talking capitalism. But since it is brought up let me bring this up...

    "We the People of the United States in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

    The premise of the constitution is laid out in the preamble. I point specifically to 'promote the general welfare' . To me (admittedly a non U.S. citizen of North America) this allows for education and health care for the masses. This does not go against the constitution, but it solidifies it.

    I also chuckle at your statement "... there is no right to someone else's services. Making someone work for free is slavery..." especially when your constitution was drafted and signed in while your country promoted and actively built its dominance from slavery. The inequalities that breed from vigorous capitalism do not go unnoticed.


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    That clause has been beat to death. And it was never meant for any of this.

    “Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated.”
    -Thomas Jefferson

    Don't get you point on slavery. It is over, past is the past, nothing can be done about that. I think you believe slavery played a bigger part in our history than it actually has. Slavery was never the backbone of our country.
    "When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes DUTY!" - Thomas Jefferson

  3. #33
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    James Madison, the Father of the Constitution, elaborated upon this limitation in a letter to James Robertson:
    “With respect to the two words ‘general welfare,’ I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators.”

    James Madison, the Father of the Constitution, elaborated upon this limitation in a letter to James Robertson:
    “With respect to the two words ‘general welfare,’ I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators.”


    “If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the general welfare, the government is no longer a limited one possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one subject to particular exceptions.” James Madison, “Letter to Edmund Pendleton,”
    -James Madison, January 21, 1792, in The Papers of James Madison, vol. 14, Robert A Rutland et. al., ed (Charlottesvile: University Press of Virginia,1984).

    Do you need more proof about this clause, because I can do this for a very long time.
    "When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes DUTY!" - Thomas Jefferson

  4. #34
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    Umm ok... well I'm not gonna get into that (slavery) any further than it already has gone, which is off topic.

    And again, constitution aside, this was a thread about capitalism vs socialism. I'm of the opinion that it better serves the people of a country to help and aid those within in order to strengthen the social structure of society. That's not saying freebies and handouts. I'm a strong proponent of workfare as long as it has limits and timeframes to build skills and opportunity. Watching the social structure fail serves no purpose to the goals of any nation, let alone help it maintain its dominance. If you do not have an educated and healthy population you have nothing, plain and simple.


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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caveman Survival View Post
    Umm ok... well I'm not gonna get into that (slavery) any further than it already has gone, which is off topic.

    And again, constitution aside, this was a thread about capitalism vs socialism. I'm of the opinion that it better serves the people of a country to help and aid those within in order to strengthen the social structure of society. That's not saying freebies and handouts. I'm a strong proponent of workfare as long as it has limits and timeframes to build skills and opportunity. Watching the social structure fail serves no purpose to the goals of any nation, let alone help it maintain its dominance. If you do not have an educated and healthy population you have nothing, plain and simple.


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    Slavery isn't off topic, it is directly related to socialism. Having someone work, and not paying them for that is a form of slavery. I am forced to work many many hours every year without getting paid for that. What do you call that?

    Funny, because for most of our history, government did not pay for anything to individuals and we became the strongest nation in the world. Now with all the taxes and government handouts we are failing. I believe the exact opposite of what you just said. People become strong and smart by going after things. Survival of the fittest, and remove government restrictions. College for probably 85% of the people is a complete waste of money, time and resources. I make more than almost any of my friends, I work less time and have zero college education. You can't teach intelligence.

    Look at Texas, vs Chicago, New York, or California. We have growth, jobs, and low taxes.


    Limited government is directly related to capitalism. In a government like yours you are way closer to socialism than we are, we are closer to capitalism. Our government has gotten way out of hand, and it goes back decades. We need to restrain it, and cut about 90% of it.
    "When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes DUTY!" - Thomas Jefferson

  6. #36
    Do you have a robot?
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    Okay look at California
    Their University of California which is run by Janet Napolitano is under fire for hiding money, miss spending money and paying the administrators too much. All the while the little people get hammered with higher tuition and cuts.

    Then you can look at my junior college district where the majority of the instructors are adjunct faculty. BTW that is a fancy word for part-time. Well they have directors for the various programs, i.e. three for public safety academies, fire academy and ems academy. Well we just found out all these people are no longer directors but as now classed as deans. What does that mean it is only right they get paid the same so we will give them all a 32% raise. But the adjunct faculty who took a pay cut of $10 per hour five years ago has yet to get it back.

    It all gets down to haves and haves not. If you look at Communism and Socialism on paper they may look good to some but history shows it is always the elite who make out. This is gained by the people who are the workers and pay taxes.
    If it is predictable then it is preventable....... Gordon Graham

    So if it is predictable and preventable then you better prepare.

  7. #37
    I have still yet to grow a brain
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    Caveman, if you have to buy a product. No choice. And are fined if you don't buy said product. What is your time spent on to make said money? Is it your to do with as you wish? Your time is indentured or slavery. This is for your own good. You may not agree with it but you will pay for it.

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    Help can we start a compound? Just kidding. Me in CO and you in TX we will just wave in the general direction. Sadly I am owned by the government. I am working to remove the position.
    The tallest oak in the forest was once just a nut who held its ground.

    Be decisive. Right or Wrong, make a decision. The road of life is paved with flat squirrels who could not make a decision.

  8. #38
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    Move to Texas
    "When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes DUTY!" - Thomas Jefferson

  9. #39
    I have still yet to grow a brain
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    Quote Originally Posted by helomech View Post
    Move to Texas

    Texas is to Muggy for me. CO is high, dry and stocked with wild life...
    The tallest oak in the forest was once just a nut who held its ground.

    Be decisive. Right or Wrong, make a decision. The road of life is paved with flat squirrels who could not make a decision.

  10. #40
    For the Love of Cats


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    Canada is awesome too, except for a couple of our gun laws that is...
    Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day!
    Light a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life!

    Cat's are food... not friends!

    If you're going to fight, then fight like you're the third monkey on the ramp into Noah's arc... and brother, it's starting to rain.

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