lighting/power idea brainstorm

[jamesneuen]

Bear with me please, this will be a little long.

In the interest of preparing for a SHTF scenario I am looking to buy property in the northern part of the US. For the purposes of this discussion lets say Idaho, next to the Canadian border. To ensure that I have everything I will need to on the property before i buy it as far as access/natural resources I am attempting to set up as in depth of a complete living plan prior to committing anything beyond a few months of researching. So far the major snag I have hit is this;

Power/lighting solutions,
When SHTF I would like to be prepared for the instance that power will never come back to the grid. For this eventuality I will have a superinsulated house equipped with a rocket stove for heating during winter, an ice house for storing game and supplies during the short summers, and plenty of underground storage for supplies in various places.

The one thing that I am missing is power or some sort of lighting. All of the renewable energy sources out there are flawed in that they tend to rely on one thing that is destined to fail eventually; batteries. I have yet to see a system that doesn't use them to some extent that they wouldn't be crippled when the battery stops working. Even using RE the only viable options I would really have is either water or wind power due to the lack of light during long winter months and each of those would present their own issues. (lack of wind, -0 temps)

Looking into rudimentary lighting the only option I could find would be to continually render fat from animals I kill (time consuming) or establish a bee colony and use their wax to create candles.

The bees are what I am leaning more towards right now due to the added benefits of having the colony nearby as well.(food, medicinal) The only issue is the speed at which they would produce the wax and the lack of efficient light from normal tapers made from wax.

Lighting is a main concern due to how soon the sun goes down in the more northern reaches. Without some form of lighting in the house we would be cut down to only being able to operate from 9am-5pm maximum. I don't expect it to be crazy bright but was hoping for a long term option that would be sustainable indefinitely.

[Sniper-T]

Obviously, this is a concern for myself as well... so I stock up heavily on candles and rechargeable batteries (think of the little solar lights that people put along their driveway.) I also have crank lights, and moulds and wicks for making candles. If you plan on killing animals to eat, then it is a no brainer to render the fat. Shoot a nice chubby fall bear and you'll have enough fat to last for several years.
A wood stove with a glass door also throws a good amount of light (enough to read). Other options are storing propane and kerosine. They both store indefinately, and both have lights available for them.

Oh, and welcome to the forum... that's a great first post!

[ElevenBravo]

Solar panels, deep cycle batteries and LED lights come to mind rather quick, but thats on the technology side.

Plenty of propane and propane Coleman lanterns are a good idea.

However, and box full of wicks and several hurricane lanterns with lots of kerosene or lamp oil (liquid parafin, same same) would also be a good idea.


The best and easiest idea is from waaaay back in time, go to bed when its dark and get up when its light.

Im sure others will chime in with there own ideas...
EB

[jamesneuen]

I appreciate the quick responses and thank you Sniper-T. I have done a lot of digging into this, almost exhaustively so it seems.

This is part of the issue I have been having. Most of your responses seem like short term solutions to a long term problem. I am thinking in terms of more than 10-15 years, having the same solution work and don't want to devote that much space to a consumable if I can find an alternative that I can make as I go. Especially in the interest of moving to a different place if needed.

Am I just completely overestimating how much I will most likely consume with the candles and oil? A 200lb black bear usually only gains about 30-50lbs for hibernation. Quadrupling that to account for a much larger bear in the 800lb range still would net me only 200lbs of pure fat. Then rendering out the tissue, impurities, and processing it I could only see 100lbs max realistically. So 12-13 gallons? I think I would eradicate the local bear population at that rate but I haven't used lanterns as my main source of lighting so I have nothing to base a consumption off of.

As for the fireplace idea, it had occurred to me to have one with glass on all sides to serve as a light source but I would then have to figure out a way to tie it into the existing flue of the RMH so as to minimize the amount of heat loss from putting too many holes through the insulation of the house. Plus the original intent of the RMH and insulated house was so I could get by on VERY little wood.

ElevenBravo: I am trying to not look at anything technological as it breaks down eventually. I am hoping for a permanent solution so I don't have to hope that eventually the grid comes back.

I am uncomfortable with the idea of a compressed gas in a superinsulated house as the entire premise is that it is supposedly almost airtight and back again to devoting a large space to a consumable. I have used propane as a dedicated source of lighting before during camping and can go through a 30lb cylinder in about a week under normal (non-stingy) operation.

I would adhere to going to bed at dark and getting up at light but I have lived in the north and know we don't get much daylight during the winter at all. Being completely self sufficient I will always have more work to get done than I know what to do with. Time in the house with the lantern each evening can be spent making clothes, doing repairs, spending time with family that would otherwise be busy during the day with their own assigned tasks. Or in the best scenario, needing light to clean and process the day's kill. My concern mostly is providing a light for the person standing guard each night. So they can see and respond to any threats but also because in a darkened environment our body's natural tendency is to relax and begin the process of shutting down for sleep.

I'm not trying to poke holes in anybody else's plans!! I am just hoping to come up with a solution that I can go to bed comfortable with each night knowing that I can use it if I need to and never worry about not having it anymore.

[Sniper-T]

ok. personally, I think that you are overthinking things. If you look at my info.. You will see that I am actually in Canada, and in the coldest darkest portion thereof.

Think about it... you can buy a 50 pack of tealight candles for 3-4 bucks. they last for up to 6 hours each. think how many you could store in a 45 gallon barrel... I can guarantee you, I have read, played cards, and just sat around shooting the shit under the light of a single tealight.

we have a cheap shit version of this in my Northern remote cabin, and I have laid on the floorin front of it for days, reading books, just by it's cast off light.

In the end... when I head up north for my hunting trips *check the "I am outta here" thread... I live the cut off, no supplies lifestyle on a recreational basis, regularly.... it really isn't that tough... once you are established, dark does dictate your life. it has happened for millennia. go to sleep when it is dark, and get busy when it isn't.

If I dare say, you are overthinking this... Basics, dude, basics! Water, shelter, food. Deal with comfort as needed. short term survival is all you need to think about... cause if you can last 2 years,,, then you WILL last ten. you got the skills.

I don't know the wildlife situation in the area you are proposing, but even with your example 100lbs of fat will last a long time... and then add in the other animals.

Seriously. If you think for a second, that you can or think you want to live in my North... I welcome you...

[helomech]

My next property will have a flowing spring on the property. With that I will get a water wheel and have the ability to power almost anything I want.

[jamesneuen]

Sniper-T,
I would gladly live further north than I can get in the US. That would be a major learning curve for me though just to get used to THAT extreme of temps. I lived in Sault Sainte Marie, MI for 3 years and it wasn't really cold so much as just windy. I guess I will just have to try out some things and see exactly how they work out to make sure I'm not blowing things out of proportion. As you are a canadian though I have a few questions if you don't mind.

First, how strict are your gun laws? I have heard they are notoriously difficult but have no eperience, could you give me a little bit of background as a hunter/sportsman?

Second, I saw your hunting photos and kudos to you but do you still call them canadian geese or just "our geese"?

Helomech,
I had thought about that but I was concerned about the alternator/power converter wearing out and about the cold temperature causing constant ice buildup and equipment damage.

[robsdak]

i am with Sniper-T, dude you way over thinking this. you need to figure out what your prepping for? everybody has a different answer. me, hurricanes, some idiot hitting a light pole and leaving us for 13 1/2 hrs without power.(happened 2 weeks ago) zombies. the point is, you can not be prepared for everything. also know that pieces and parts wear out or break down, part of life, plan accordingly.


as for bees wax as a source of light. better be in the business of beekeeping. like 10+ hives. for any quantity at one time. i have a small colony/hive. not worth messing with. on the upside, i am able to do about 6 gal. of honey a year.


edit.... if this comes off as rude, not meant to be. posting while tired is dangerous.

[jamesneuen]

robsdak,
No offense taken in the slightest. I am mostly looking at a general loss of power and consumables for whatever reason. Exponential rise in fossil fuel cost, war/invasion, emp, or any of the other million things that could go wrong and make our fragile little world fall apart.

I think I will look into the fat rendering a bit more, and I also was looking into the Russian bees. I know they dont produce as much honey but apparently they are very cold hardy and produce lots of wax. More research is needed on that though.

Also, love the Firefly quote. "Everybody wants to be a gorram hero, don't they?"

[Sniper-T]

We have three classifications of firearms...
1. non-restricted: hunting rifles.
2. Restricted: handguns and some 'black' type rifles.
3. Prohibited: short barreled handguns, auto rifles, some 'black' type rifles.

If you want to hunt, you need to take a 'hunter safety' course. anyone over the age of 12 can take it nd be able to buy a hunting licence for any game animal.

If you want to own guns, you have to take a PAL course (Possession/acquisition Licence) and pass a background check. This is a one time affair, and once you have it you can buy a non-restricted gun from any store or anyone, whenever you want. No red tape. To buy a restricted, it has to be called in to a federal regulatory office, and then to a provincial one(state). Generally, the process takes 10 minutes, and I can walk out the door with any handgun I want.
Prohibited... are prohibited. Only those grandfathered into this class can purchase or even own one.

Here we call it 'Chinese food', in China, they call it 'food'... We just call them 'geese'. or to distinguish them, they could be 'snow', 'blue', 'brants'... but the true Canadian goose... is just a goose. Same as an eagle is just an eagle, not an 'American bald Eagle' .

I'm going to my buddy's cabin next weekend, to build onto his deck and do some hunting/fishing. propane lights/fridge/stove. With generous use of all three, 2-100lb propane tanks last for a year. if one was thrifty, and only using lights as needed, it would last much longer.

He also has a solar set up for running lights, etc. the batteries are inside, and a bank of 10-6 volt last 8+ years... but being remote, they are used only occasionally in the winter and trickle charge only as long as the panels are not covered with snow. Otherwise they freeze solid until spring.

a 200 lb bear is a two year old, and around here, common place. I try to shoot a 4-5 year old each year for food, and they are typically in the 400lb range. It is not uncommon to get an old boar in the 6-800 pound range, if you try.