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Thread: Winter survival

  1. #1
    For the Love of Cats


    Sniper-T's Avatar
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    Winter survival

    A friend of mine is from Florida, and is planning a guided hunting trip into Canada this winter, and isn't sure what he is in for. So he emailed a list of questions, which I answered, and provided some additional information for him. Domeguy is considering an ice fishing trip up here this winter, so much of this will be relevant for him, and for anyone else in the Northern reaches. Please feel free to question, comment, and/or criticize.

    From my buddy:

    January 15, 2017, I will be in Kapuskasing, Ontario, wolf hunting!!!
    Here is the URL for the outfitter.

    http://www.kapriveroutfitters.ca/home

    Essentially, we will be hauled out to ambush sites via snow machine sled,
    sit there for up to six hours in a partial blind made by shoveling a hole in
    the snow, then hauled back in a sled.

    Questions:

    1. Do you think a .243 Win Mag rifle, shooting 90 grain bullets at about 3,000 fps
    is an appropriate rifle? It is scoped with a 3x9. I canl sight it in at 240 yards and
    can hold dead on out to 300 yards - aim above the front leg and center of the
    body top to bottom - bullet will be up or down only 3". Sound right? My other
    rifle is a .300 Win Mag - same ballistics with 180 grain bullet, a 6x18 scope.

    2. I will layer the clothing. Their web site has a detailed explanation of what to
    wear - summary is a wicking layer, a cotton layer, a wool layer, and the outer
    water resistant layer. Will that be enough? I can add another short Cabellas
    insulated hunting jacket. I have Patagonia Sinchilla [old pop bottles] long johns -
    1 pair of lightweight, one pair of medium, and can wear both, along with jeans -
    do I need a wool layer here?

    3. They say it can be as low as -30 C. Do any of you guys know of someone
    who would loan me appropriate boots? [My shoe size is 11 1/2 D]. The only
    boots I have are the rubber felt lined things I use at the May Long, and I hope not to
    have to spend up to $500 for boots to be used once in my life. I will try to find
    electric boot warmers.

    4. Gloves - I have a pair for goose hunting, and can get a pair of wool ones under
    the outer layer, and maybe even some wicking ones. Will that do it? Also will
    look for hand warmers, for gloves and for kidneys.

    5. I will take along a 1'x1'x2" foam pad to sit on going out and at the blind. Is
    that enough?

    6. Will take along an adjustable, collapsible shooting stick.

    7. Will buy a full face cotton mask [can't use wool as I will break out].

    8. I have goggles to protect my eyes.

    9. What have I missed?

    Detailed answers please - I hope to bag a wolf and survive the experience
    without harming my 79 year old body. And no, I won't be walking any more
    than 25 yards out in the woods!

    Many thanks in advance.


    Hey Joe,

    in response:

    1. .243 is more than enough gun for your intended prey, assuming of course, that you do your part.

    2. Find out how far you expect to be travelling by snowmobile to get to the hunting locations. Dressing for an hour long skidoo ride at 50 MPH is a little different than sitting in a hidey hole out of the wind.
    - Your layering sounds fine, but make sure you have additional clothing with you. small daypack. if you get damp/wet (snow/perspiration) having a dry change of clothes is the difference between enjoying yourself and tolerating the day.
    - Consider a pair of insulated pants rather than jeans. I personally see no benefit to jeans whatsoever. A decent pair of cargo pants (lined) with pockets can be invaluable.

    3. I do not know anyone with that size of boot. Most of my friends are normal sized... lol You may want to look at just buying an additional set of liners for your boots, something better rated.

    4. I wear a very light pair of stretchable gloves as a base layer ( usually 3 pairs for $1.00), and pull a heavy pair of mitts on over top if needed. The gloves are enough to keep the wind off your skin, and to handle your rifle without touching the cold steel bare handed. I take a 1/2 dozen pairs with me, and as they get wet, simply change them out. Plus, I can shoot with them on.

    5. Assuming you are able to sit upright for the entire time, that pad will suffice, even thinner would be fine, it just needs to insulate your body from the ground. However, it is difficult to spend that much time simply sitting upright. So you may want to consider a mat or something that will allow you to lay down as well. If there isn't much snow, your hole may only be a foot or two deep, so a prone or semi prone position may be necessary. Look at something like a yoga mat. about 1/4" thick neoprene, 2' wide x 6' long. will roll up into a 5" cylinder.

    6. If you are comfortable using a stick then fine, but also be prepared to be shooting from sitting, kneeling and prone as the terrain and prey dictate.

    7. Good idea, make sure to try on several for fit. make sure you have good visibility. Make sure you can move your head in all positions without it slipping over your eyes. Make sure that you can breathe through it easily, and that it doesn't cause your glasses/goggles to fog up. In addition, bring a decent toque. You may find that a full face balaclava is too hot, but you still want to cover the head. Yes, you can just roll up the balaclava, but it'll stretch it out, and get wet from your perspiration/snow. If that is your primary source of warmth for the snowmobile ride back, you'll freeze.

    Googles are good, assuming you can wear them without fogging them up (while breathing through a full face). And they may be invaluable while on the snowmobile. (do they provide a helmet?) Also make sure that you have a decent pair of tinted lens (ie sunglasses) On a clear sunny day in the winter, it is about a bajillion times brighter out than a typical Floridian would expect because of the reflection off the snow.

    9. Others: food/water. Even sitting/laying around you will be expending energy trying to keep warm, be prepared to replace it. Keep in mind that anything in a pack will freeze in time. I typically tuck a bottle of water into an inside pocket of my coat to keep it warm. If it starts getting low, I'll refill it with snow, and let my body heat melt/warm it before drinking it. (Don't eat snow/Don't drink icy cold water!) You can tuck a hotshot into the pocket to keep the cold away from your body, and to help warm it, but make sure it doesn't melt the plastic bottle.

    - Thermos: Since you're not humping it, add a thermos to your pack. there is nothing like a hot cup of tea and/or soup to warm the soul.
    - Toilet paper in a ziplock bag. Enough said.
    - additional toilet paper/kleenex. One thing about being out in the cold, it will make your nose run. a hanky if fine too, but only if you have an inside pocket for it. Blowing your nose in a frozen rag ain't fun.
    -additional toilet paper/kleenex. If you do not have caps on the end(s) of your scope, you can wad up some tp, and 'screw' it into the ends of the scope to keep the snow out. Nothing sucks more than raising a gun for a shot to find the scope plugged with snow.
    - if you do find snow in your scope, do not use your finger to clear it, nor blow on it. you'll fog it up and be fucked for the day. grab a stick, twig, end of strap/belt, anything that is the same temperature as the gun/scope.
    - that said, pay attention to your breathing any time you are near your scope, an exasperated exhale can fog it up mighty quick at -30.
    - if there are warm up shelters available, leave your gun outside, unless you plan on being in long enough for it to completely warm up (hours), if you don't, it will fog/ice up.
    - If you are hunting multiple days, have enough clothing for each day, in particular, socks and underwear. You can wear used socks again, but unless laundered, they won't be as warm (and probably kinda crusty!)
    - practice shooting (from all positions) while wearing your expected attire. it is one thing to hit a target at 240 while on a bench rest in a t-shirt. It can be another while 1/2 laying in a hole with 5 layers of clothing, a balaclava and hood while wearing goggles.
    -when you get back to camp, you will be chilled. Immediately get out of EVERYTHING, and redress in warm dry clothing. After that long outside, you will have layers of cooler air trapped in your clothing, and adding additional layers will not warm you. better yet, have a shower if available, and then redress.
    -have additional footwear for back at camp/town. do not wear your boots unless you absolutely need to. They need time to dry.

    * And the #1 most important thing *

    If you wear your boots for more than five minutes, no matter for what or where; when you take them off, take the liners out and put them somewhere to dry (on a heat vent/over the stove/etc) Even if they do not feel wet, they are. Dry them religiously! Cold feet=cold body.
    Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day!
    Light a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life!

    Cat's are food... not friends!

    If you're going to fight, then fight like you're the third monkey on the ramp into Noah's arc... and brother, it's starting to rain.

  2. #2
    Wants you to "look at what he's holding tonight".


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    -30, my ass is staying inside.
    "When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes DUTY!" - Thomas Jefferson

  3. #3
    looking at their tools while posting pictures of mine.
    Domeguy's Avatar
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    For me, it's a bucket list thing. I have experienced -20 deg. in Illinois for one day, but there was no wind and I was able to go inside any time I wanted to warm up. I would like to experience the -40 deg temperatures, the snow, the ice fishing, just to know what it feels lik to be alive during all of this. I have always wanted to experience Alaska in the winter, but I don't think I would live through that extreme, so this is my compromise. Plus I had a great time fishing with Snipper-T in Wisconsin this summer, so the company would be good.
    "Teach the children quietly
    For someday sons and daughters
    Will rise up and fight while we stood still"

    I stayed up all night to see where the sun went. Then it dawned on me.

  4. #4
    may be in trouble


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    My only comments on the matter are two:

    1. I was born and raised in heaven-help-us Iowa... we got all the cold weather Minnesota didn't get. I've been living out here in Las Vegas the past decade, and before that, a three year period in other hot climes, right up til the month I and the x got separated, and damn near froze my parts then. Simply put, I will have a hard time with cold, and will endure it, if for no other reason that to spite the Old Man with the Scythe as much as I can.

    2. For a .243 winmag I would recommend a 100 grain slug.

    Kesephist, sweating the next three weeks, and not from the heat

  5. #5
    For the Love of Cats


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    K: 90...100 semantics... I have shot dozens upon dozens of wolves with everything down to a 40 grain .22mag. smack them right, and they're down. For my buddy, he has guides with him for an oh shit situation, they'll smack it.

    DG: If you can make it work, you know I/we will take care of you, and not expect anymore than you are comfortable doing. two of this years group will be in their 70's, and two in their late 60's. We take care of our own. We eat well, we drink well, and no matter what, everyone's safety is paramount. You will have a good time, you will be safe, and you will take home some awesome memories.

    These are a given.

    Bottom line, when the North wind is howling, and it's -60C or -70C outside, we drink beer and clamato in the cabin and sit around in 85F temps in our shorts playing cards... when it warms up above -50C... then, then! It's outdoor play time! woohoo!
    Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day!
    Light a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life!

    Cat's are food... not friends!

    If you're going to fight, then fight like you're the third monkey on the ramp into Noah's arc... and brother, it's starting to rain.

  6. #6
    finally pooped
    jamesneuen's Avatar
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    Only thing I would make sure he does is practice shooting with the goggles in place. Make sure he can get a good cheek weld without the goggles sliding into his field of vision or fogging up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunfixr View Post
    Welcome to the internet.
    One of us types in our heart and soul, and then puts it up for the world.
    Then, the rest get to interpret it.
    It is literal, or figurative?
    Sad, or happy?
    Angry, or calm?
    Just black and white words on a screen.
    Not like a conversation in person, with facial expressions, body language, tone of voice.

    Still, we here pretty much slide along without issues.
    Imagine how well we could get along in person.

    Or, we would just think each other is a bunch of assholes

  7. #7
    For the Love of Cats


    Sniper-T's Avatar
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    Yep... that was in my advice too...

    the third
    -
    from the bottom.
    Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day!
    Light a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life!

    Cat's are food... not friends!

    If you're going to fight, then fight like you're the third monkey on the ramp into Noah's arc... and brother, it's starting to rain.

  8. #8
    finally pooped
    jamesneuen's Avatar
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    Missed that. My bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunfixr View Post
    Welcome to the internet.
    One of us types in our heart and soul, and then puts it up for the world.
    Then, the rest get to interpret it.
    It is literal, or figurative?
    Sad, or happy?
    Angry, or calm?
    Just black and white words on a screen.
    Not like a conversation in person, with facial expressions, body language, tone of voice.

    Still, we here pretty much slide along without issues.
    Imagine how well we could get along in person.

    Or, we would just think each other is a bunch of assholes

  9. #9
    For the Love of Cats


    Sniper-T's Avatar
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    nope, you're good. great minds and all that...
    Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day!
    Light a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life!

    Cat's are food... not friends!

    If you're going to fight, then fight like you're the third monkey on the ramp into Noah's arc... and brother, it's starting to rain.

  10. #10
    finally pooped
    jamesneuen's Avatar
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    I would suggest a pad in case he needs to lay down but I would also recommend taking a short chair so his butt isn't on the ground where his heat will seep away and possibly melt the snow getting his butt wet.

    Also I think that the guides will be his best source of information. They have seen everything, both stupid and genius.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunfixr View Post
    Welcome to the internet.
    One of us types in our heart and soul, and then puts it up for the world.
    Then, the rest get to interpret it.
    It is literal, or figurative?
    Sad, or happy?
    Angry, or calm?
    Just black and white words on a screen.
    Not like a conversation in person, with facial expressions, body language, tone of voice.

    Still, we here pretty much slide along without issues.
    Imagine how well we could get along in person.

    Or, we would just think each other is a bunch of assholes

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