What is the Definition of SHTF?

[eagle326]

I know. But I thought old fart was a term of endearment? ??

I knew I should've never allowed you to take that psychology course.

[Domeguy]

So what do YOU do Stormy... follow orders or your conscious?

...

I personally don't feel that's a fair question to ask, as no one can be sure untill they are out in that position.

[bacpacker]

Yay, DG made it back

[Gunfixr]

Maybe. Some are unsure. Some may not want to say, at least at this point. I am not in that position, but i know several who are.

Most have made it clear which they would follow.

It does mean that you may be trading your livelihood for your conscience. The rght thing is not always the easy thing.

[eagle326]

I personally don't feel that's a fair question to ask, as no one can be sure untill they are out in that position.

I will respectfully agree to disagree Domeguy. For those of us who swore the oath everlasting until we draw our last worldly breath is one that comes with no choices in my book.
You follow orders as long as they are lawful. If not then you do not follow them ; very simple. Now could it put you in a position of conflict? It could and most likely would. But the decision has to be for our country's rights and survival not what Government believes or our self interest if it binds the rights and freedoms of it's citizens.

Don't get me wrong ; it'll be a hard choice for some but for those of us who understand the oath it won't be a hard decision to make. And I do believe we'll be in the majority. Even for those who have never served and taken the oath the same choice will eventually come to each and everyone and they will then have to decide as we did.
For you see freedom is a lifestyle that cost much in time and effort so that it can't be stolen by anyone military or civilian and it may cost us our lives. But then what good is your freedom if you're bound and shackled by your master.

So in the end your only choice is to rail against those who expect you to follow unlawful orders against fellow country men and try and leave as peacefully as possible. For sides will be chosen. Those for freedom as intended and those who wish to crush it.

May we never come to that day but in the end I think we all can see the writing on the wall and I know how myself and the vast majority of my military brothers will vote and it won't be to follow but to lead the fight as best we can to bring our country back.

Just my 2 cents
Eagle

[Domeguy]

I respect your respecting my respect for the re-respect of my respectfully respecting my...ah fuck it. It's all good.

[Gunfixr]

I think the biggest problem will be drawing the line. There will be orders that are bkrderline, pushing the envelope, maybe even tearing it just a bit, but not going all the way.
Plus, when it comes down, they will try to play it so that it doesnt look like what it really is, to get more cooperation.

I dont think it will come to an all out in the open kind of thing if they can help it.
It will be up to those who took the oath to recognize it when it comes, and isnt so clear, which may be hard to do. The black and white is easy, its the gray that can be difficult.
Really, there are things going on in this country every day that require breaking the oath to accomplish. Yet they are still happening. No, it isnt the kind of thing we are discussing now. So, somewhere, a line must be drawn. As things escalate, either the oath continues to be ignored, or somewhere along the line, a decision is made that it will go no further.

I suppose it falls under a pick your battles kind of thing.

[Caveman Survival]

I'm a little late to the party here but I will throw my .02$ into the mix.

For me, SHTF is literal. An event has happened and now there is a big mess to clean up (just like when actual shit has hit a fan). 2008 was a SHTF scenario in my eyes (not so much personally, but globally). Things didn't necessarily get shut down, but events happened (economic crashes, bailouts, lost jobs, lost homes, bankruptcies, etc) that people needed to address in a fashion that they were not normally accustomed to. SHTF does not necessarily lend itself only to a disruption of life and safety (although it can be inclusive) but also to a situation of temporary personal or long term societal chaos. SHTF in Greece. SHTF in Baltimore. If Canadians weren't so passive shit should be hitting the fan up here with our .gov's new anti-terror legislation (but alas, 'tis our nature to not be confrontational.) SHTF in Vancouver after our Hockey riots (yes folks, that is where our passions lay).

All in all, to me, SHTF means that something has horribly gone wrong and needs to be cleaned up and while the scrub crew does (or doesn't) do its job to the best of it's abilities, we need to take care of ourselves and our families/friends and by extension communities until normalcy (not always a good thing) is restored.

Wrol and teotwawki in the other hand.... Well that's a whole 'nother situation entirely.

[Kesephist]

Well, with all this wealth of information, and the derailments consigned to their proper place, I've pretty much come to this set of thought regarding SHTF/TEOTWAWKI/WROL.

We are due, if not overdue, for something massive and horrible to take place, on at least a national scale. My guesses as to what are two:

A crash so profound that it turns the dollar into nearly worthless scrip.

Some awful event, contrived or otherwise, that tips the regime over into martial law.

I'll readily concede my preps are not nearly as ready as some here. In candor, my thoughts had not wandered over into the prep side until after the 2012 election, and that the Joe Averages were content with their bread and circlejerks circuses, and never mind that they were not sustainable. So no, I've not had the benefits of years of coalescing and concocting master plans or access to obscenely huge warchests.

The two people I have clued in to my plans understand completely and are unable to participate for reasons of health. They will stay in Vegas when all hell breaks loose and take their chances.

I can't help them.

Because of that, more than a few times I've not been able to sleep, even with consultations with Mr Daniel's good sipping whisky to aid the matter. My musings in such nights have a time or two turned to the line of thought of "Fuggit, selling this stuff off in the morning and burning what can't be sold." The morning leaving me right where I was before, stuff unsold and unburnt.

When I very first set my foot on this road, I'll admit to optimism. "Yes, yes, I'll get all this together, but hopefully we won't need it." Followed by that most dangerous of questions... "What's the worst that could happen?"

Boy did Fate and Murphy answer that.

My thoughts are now of the variety of "I gave it my best shot to tell people. I won't get in the way of their waking up and getting ready at this late date, but damn if I am wasting any more time waking them up."

Aww but k, that makes you a hater and uncompassionate and etc.

Your point?

[Vodin]

I personally don't believe everything will come to a halt and explode into a SHTF situation. I see the government plodding on and making life , liberty and survive ability near non existent. They will eradicate the old thought and train the new thought. They already have malleable minds that they can twist into the proper thought. It is the old thought and upbringing that will be the battle to win.