Scavenging for supplies

[Caveman Survival]

I agree with domeguy, salvage yards would be a gold mine for spare parts, building materials, containers, hoses, rubber, etc. short term, stores, walmarts, malls, costcos would be taking your life into your own hands. Corner stores might fair better if ya get there early and the owner hasn't fortified it yet. Long term these places would be nothing more than ghost towns and fortified locations for gangs and groups. Not worth it imho. It will be about foraging... Backyard gardens, farmers fields, back country harvesting. That's where the grub will be found long term. You may find eats from time to time, but I think what you'd get wouldn't be worth the danger. A couple of 'found' tins of tuna aren't going to feed a group, and there's a good chance yer Gonna have to beat the MAG that has holed up there to get it.

I honestly think that raiding, hunting and gathering parties will be the only thing to keep a MAG going long term until they are able to put down fully defended roots.

[jamesneuen]

Yeah, but with foraging it takes more than 12 square miles of non tended woodland to provide for a family of four. And that's only a supplement for their other sources of food.

I have been and always will be an advocate of growing your own things or at least tending to your surroundings to promote certain growth.

[izzyscout21]

I would be very careful on how you use the term "raiding".

I'm now going to go "raid" the fridge.

[Caveman Survival]

Yeah, but with foraging it takes more than 12 square miles of non tended woodland to provide for a family of four. And that's only a supplement for their other sources of food.

I have been and always will be an advocate of growing your own things or at least tending to your surroundings to promote certain growth.

I fully agree James, but let's not forget that growing a garden won't be started on day zero. Unless you are living off radishes you won't / can't harvest for 50 to 150 days. Tack on another month or two (at a very optimistic minimum) to have a location, security, and a MAG semi-infrastructure in place and you could be looking at 5-6 months before you can harvest your garden. Up north our growing season is only 5-6 months (at best) so if shit went down in spring, by fall we MIGHT be able to eat (beans, peas, summer gourds). If things went south in October or later we wouldn't be able to harvest for 11-12 months. Store shelves are bare in the first couple of weeks. Secondary sources (offices, vending machines, cafeterias, etc) with undoubtedly fall within the next couple of months.

Hardcores will still be sitting pretty with their personal food reserves (providing they haven't the need to abandon them already) but the majority will be dwindling down their reserves by this point.

Currently I'm good for about 3 months, but that is without providing aid for additional family members and close friends. Longer than that and I am entering crisis mode. It's one of the reasons that I go out on day hikes within an hour of my home location and make recorded notes of flora and fauna in the area, as well as farms and their crops. 12 square miles is a lot of area to cover and hope to find something, that's why I have put in the grunt work NOW, to hopefully beat others to the punch.

I also guerrilla garden every spring and plant a few things in hard to discover places. I would say I am able to harvest at least 50-60% of what I plant.

[jamesneuen]

But that's why, if you have the space and capability to garden you should begin now. I have no idea how a MAG using a BOL would be able to sustain it unless they rotated out who took care of it and already had a place in mind.

I get what you're saying about guerrilla gardening. I did it when I lived near woods with the wild onion, black berries and such.

[Caveman Survival]

James- if you have the space and capability to garden now, then the scavenging for supplies (food stuffs) is a non-issue. I am working under the premise that the OP has laid out. The need for scavenging due to whatever reason is upon us. I do have a well planned garden. I do not have acreage. Depending on the reason to need to scavenge, I may not have a garden and may need to start over somewhere else. I never, repeat NEVER want to rely on what I have, because it may be taken away from me in an instant, so I also make sure that I fit into my plans what I can get as well as what I have.

And if you don't have an idea how a MAG using a BOL would be able to sustain itself, I suggest that you begin to imagining how it could now. It's better to have half assed hypothetical plans to work with than trying to create it from scratch. In my scenarios I plan for just me and my immediate family, me and my extended family, me and my MAG friends, and me and strangers. Each scenario has a different plan of action, but the common denominator of each is the plausibility of it being put into action. It may not work out to plan, but at least I have a framework to begin with.

[Illini Warrior]

But that's why, if you have the space and capability to garden you should begin now. I have no idea how a MAG using a BOL would be able to sustain it unless they rotated out who took care of it and already had a place in mind.

I get what you're saying about guerrilla gardening. I did it when I lived near woods with the wild onion, black berries and such.

I don't know your definition of a MAG is .... but I have the same definition as the commonality .... a MAG isn't the same thing a prepper group that is pre-planned unit with a BOL and joint supplies ....

a MAG is just a Mutual Alliance Group or Mutual Armed Group .... neighbors or friends coming together for mutual defense ....

[realist]

But that's why, if you have the space and capability to garden you should begin now. I have no idea how a MAG using a BOL would be able to sustain it unless they rotated out who took care of it and already had a place in mind.

I get what you're saying about guerrilla gardening. I did it when I lived near woods with the wild onion, black berries and such.

That is exactly what I am doing. In the past three weeks I have put in 600+ square feet of raised beds lined with hardware wire. This way I do not have to worry about gophers and the soil is easy to work by hand.

So for those who have a BOL I recommend you stage some good compost or fertilizer so you will have it on hand for your garden. It takes too long to compost material when you need it now.

[Sniper-T]

I fully agree James, but let's not forget that growing a garden won't be started on day zero. Unless you are living off radishes you won't / can't harvest for 50 to 150 days. Tack on another month or two (at a very optimistic minimum) to have a location, security, and a MAG semi-infrastructure in place and you could be looking at 5-6 months before you can harvest your garden. Up north our growing season is only 5-6 months (at best) so if shit went down in spring, by fall we MIGHT be able to eat (beans, peas, summer gourds). If things went south in October or later we wouldn't be able to harvest for 11-12 months...

This isn't necessarily true CS. If you have a decent shelter and can heat it, there is no reason why you cannot grow inside year round, and definitely in the winter.

I started all my seeds this year in January and February, when it was -30C outside. If need be, I would build a rack system in front of all my South facing windows and cover them with plants.

[Caveman Survival]

You are right sniper, I'm just looking at the scenario from a completely different timeline ( and possibly derailed this train - sorry OP). If a collapse happened tomorrow and I have to leave (without a proper BOL) I, as would most without a BOL, would have a very tough time surviving the coming winter. One does not simply 'find' a compound that is suitable for long term habitation of a reasonable sized group. And if you do find one, odds are it would be after several previous failed attempts (prior established MAG already habitations there, indefensible, to close to ground zero or masses/mobs, etc) .

I think that I tend to look for impossible situations and worst case scenarios and try to find solutions to every horrible factor that can present itself (it's how I perceive that things will actually happen.) If a collapse happens in the fall or winter, without a pre-determined BOL, you would need to have the people, resources, and location, which could take a significant amount of time, before an infrastructure for building a garden could happen. Now if it were to happen in early or mid winter, digging through enough frozen ground to cart it inside your compound to establish a garden for 5-20 people (ymmv) is a Herculean feat in itself.

Until everything is established, scavenging, foraging and raiding will be our livelihood. Once the infrastructure has been established, and providing that most of your group has made it through the first 6 months, then everything that everyone has said prior is perfectly doable. Again, imho. And this is all hypothetical to my situation, which is without having a REAL BOL of my own (I have avenues of safety, but not of my own design)