What to you is "off limits" for scavenging and why?

[helomech]

"INNOCENT person" goes to fair game when he defends his property against someone like you "salvaging"

after the true innocent people - that can't defend themselves - die off because they were "salvaged" out of existence .... there'll only be the "salvaging" people and the people with morals & ethics prepared to live and DEFEND themselves .....

You are assuming I would steal from someone. Salvaging means the person is gone or dead. I would not take something from someone unless they tried to take from me first.

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So far Helo, Illi, and Keep all three make good and valid points. Do what you have to but don't go too far. But what is too far. How do you define an "innocent". Just because the are good today because the have a full belly doesn't mean in 5 days time they might not think twice about ripping out your throat just to get your three cans of peas. At what point does the moral delema come into play? Does anyone of us civilians really know what we are capable of. And personally speaking here to any military members, as a civilian I have no idea what might have happened in your past in any conflict you may have been involved in, and I am in no way critizing any thing you may have had to do to survive. In my opinion any military member is a true "American Hero" and should never be questioned about their past. But for those of us who have never seen the field of battle, I don't think it's fair to point fingers in ANY direction until we ourselves have truly made a mental decision as to how far we are willing to go to survive. And going beyond that, how far are you willing to go to protect you wife, husband, family. Remember just because you are passionate about protecting yourself and family, your neighbor who you were close to, had BBQs with, shared birthdays, events, good times with, is just as equally passionate about saving his family. Just because we have prepped, and even though we try to teach them, they don't always listen, and will want our peas...and if nothing else is learned here today...don't fuck with another mans peas...you won't like what you get!

During a real shtf even anyone caught on my property will be dealt with. I will let you figure out what that means. Now away from my house I will not steal or kill from good people to survive. As far as knowing who is good and who is bad, well I will have to trust my gut.

[bacpacker]

Up front I will say that I have no idea what I will do given a severe SHTF situation. Never been faced with anything approaching that before. I can think and plan all I want, and have at times, but until I'm up against it it'll be nothing more than my best guess.

That said, I would do anything I had to be able to protect my family. This also applies to any friends I have who I feel would do the same for me.

[Vodin]

I think..oh no that once bugs and mice start running low it would become a situation of survival. If my family or I am in need I would start to focus on what is available. Lets be honest here only those like us will be in the 2nd quarter, I would then focus on those that have questionable tactics. In the 3rd quarter it would become a borderline call I would consider my pets. 4th quarter..

I dont have a god to travel to after I die. So I will fight hard for every breath I can take and my wife is on the pedestal so she will receive anything I can provide. She stood by me when I was in a questionable position, I can only try to do what she has already done for me.

[Caveman Survival]

Like bacpacker I have no idea what I'd do in a shtf scenario... But I do know what I am capable of. In another lifetime I was one of your prototypical pieces of shit. Robbery, theft, violence... None of these things were out of character for me, and they all came easy to me. It took a lot of work for me to break that cycle, but when I did my life changed dramatically. I became 'civilized', working to make every day be better than the last one. Harming someone now is unfathomable to me. But that is today. Take away society, civilized organization, and social structure, I'm not sure it would take much to go feral. I can't say that for everyone, but for most here in the colony I believe that in order to protect the integrity of self and family (I am talking about physical integrity not moral), most would do what is necessary.

As to the OPs question at hand... What is off limits? To survive? Nothing. In a desperate state of mind you would be surprised what one can justify. I wouldn't go roving to CAUSE harm, however if cornered -whether it be from other's aggressions or from my own scavenging/looting/stealing/raiding efforts - getting back to my family will be priority number 1. Everything else is an obstacle to overcome.

[Caveman Survival]

With that being said, I think I should elaborate a little. I'll give a couple of scenarios.

Scenario 1 - My family and I are on our own, running low on supplies. We have no support system in place from a MAG and have been moving from safe place to safe place (as safe as can be in the situation.) One of us could be sick, starving, or in serious danger. All bets are off. I am taking what I can get my hands on. And doing what needs to be done to get it.

Scenario 2 - we have found a semi-permanent location to fortify. We might have joined up with a few others. I am wary, but willing to work cooperatively with them for the good of the group. Always mindful. Again, we will be co-sufficient until NEEDS arise (not wants). But if those needs do arise then I must do what needs to be done. There is no room for moral and ethical quibbling. We will not die (gracefully).

Scenario 3 - this is where we have the luxury of weighing our options. A MAG has been established, perhaps a colony such as this one. We are more sustainable now, the need to scavenge has subsided and we are in a better place to barter or trade. Focus now is on defence. Keeping what we have safe. In that respects, once again, we do what must be done in order to survive. We won't need to be as aggressive, but we won't be passive either.

I hope this clears up any confusion on me being a psychopathic thief hell bent on murder and mayhem, throwing civility and morality to the wind just for the chance to steal sniper's peas.

[bacpacker]

CS I like your scenario breakdown. The differences between them are huge and would make a major change in how things got handled.

[Domeguy]

CS, I must say I don't think you are hellbent on destroying society, as I quite agree with everything you say. That is except for your last statement...I think you do covet Snipers peas, as do we all.

[bacpacker]

DG, you wanna make a pea run to the great white north? I think we could get us a meal or three from the patch.
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[Sniper-T]

don't need to steal, come on up for a visit, we'll drink beer and eat peas!
lol

[bacpacker]

Now who said anything bout stealin? We was just gonna borrow a few.

I wish I had time to get up there for a visit. Beer and peas sound good.