SHTF Alternative Currency

[shtfsurvivalist]

Here is a video I made about alternative currency.


http://youtu.be/W70poSj1GuM

[GunnerMax]

nice video, I watched it yesterday. I believe that beans, bullets, and toiletries will be good currency. For example, in my town, it is the suburbs, with no real open land, no farms, etc. I believe that food, toiletries (%50 of the population are women), and bullets will be better than aluminum. I know longer-term, and rebuilding requirements will have to include metals, but I just can't plan that far out :/


For me, I have 50 bars of irish springs soap, 12 bottles of shampoo, 100 disposable razors, 3 packs of toothbrushes, and 10 shaving cream cans in my bathroom closet. (dont get it confused, that is also my deployment stock for when I deploy) so 2 uses :)

imagine what a mother would do for a bottle of shampoo (get your minds out of the gutter, dang!)

[shtfsurvivalist]

I agree with you things like shampoo and razors will make great trading items. Even if it wasn't your deployment stock I don't see anything wrong with stocking up. I got lucky a while back a friend that works at a hotel gave me 4 cases of razors that schick dropped off to the hotel. I have a family of six so we try to stock up on everything and stay ahead of needing anything.

[msomnipotent]

I am on the fence about stocking anything other than household goods for SHTF bartering, at least in my area. I am buying silver on the dips here and there, but only as an inflation hedge. The people around here are simply do not recognize anything other than common currency. I recently had to exchange my father's stash of $2 bills for "real" money because so many people would not accept them. And I tried to do trades on craigslist with a few silver dollars and people just cannot understand that I was not offering $1 for their stuff. They might get wise when things get really bad, but I am not counting on it. It makes me cringe when I think about how bad my area will be, and I can't wait to be able to move somewhere more appropriate.

I would be interested in seeing your video about melting the metals. Sounds like a neat project as long as I do not manage to burn my house down. ;)

[Stg1swret]

Barter will be the most used form of exchange, until an agreed upon medium and rate of exchange can be settled on. Paper currency will be useless. besides which you cann't eat precious metals.

[realist]

Bartering sounds so harsh. The Feds don't like it because they do not get their tax. So I prefer to just call it trading.......... So if I have something that you want and you have something that I want then we can do business. The biggest thing that I see in the future is trading work or a service for something. Precious metals will have a place for larger purchases so long it is not a total collapse. However you need to know what you have and what it is worth to you before you start trading.

[madpiper]

There is a local radio show in Cincinnati about investing. Approximately 2 or 3 years ago they were heavily recommending people invest in gold and silver due to the market. Several months ago they "jokingly" suggested ammunition as well because the metals will be useless until society straightens back out. They have "joked" about it several times since - including one important point - what caliber. If you're prepared you know what YOU need, but you wouldn't want to barter with that. They "joked" that the most common caliber is .22 and that is what you should get. It makes sense. Who doesn't have a .22 or access to one? 9mm or .40 is great, but everyone has a .22 kicking around somewhere, and right now ammo is still affordable. Of course, I'd be careful bartering with it, you wouldn't want it turned on you either!

[GunnerMax]

if anyone read Patriots, the scene in it where the locals go to a flea market thing, is what I would expect. A general, friendly bunch of Americans trading stuff. ANd most everyone does not have enough ammo. My stubborn wife said NO when I said that she is to buy a 525 round of remington .22lr EVERY time she goes to walmart. My reply was this: Be prepared for ALOT of ammo to be shipped to the house. Probably in batches of 2,000 plus rounds at a time.

[Gunfixr]

Those who will only recognize the currency now in use will come around, especially when folks laugh and recommend using it for fire starting, refusing to take it for goods.
While precious metals will have their uses, it will be somewhat limited for some time, should a complete economic collapse happen. Only established businesses with an established chain of supply will be able to utilize any type of currency such as precious metals. It will be almost useless at the local swap-meet. You'll need something others want, to trade for something you want.
Useful services will be needed as well. For the stock brokers, you better learn a blue-collar trade, at least well enough to keep you fed. Should things really go south, with no gov't after they were to collapse, it will be survival of the fittest. I could see the more entrepreneurial starting well-stocked camps, laying claim to large acreage, holding it by force. Their force will come from the new "indentured servants", folks who didn't have any preps and no protection, but a strong back and some basic skills to trade for food and a safe place for their families to sleep at night. These folks would work farms and tend animals, as well as provide a guard force.
After all, one of the big rumors about is that the FEMA camps would be filled in just such a way, with folks who couldn't support themselves going in for free food and shelter, the stipulation that they work. Difference is you'd be allowed your guns for the other folks, as the camp would need them.

Wouldn't hurt to stock some of mans' vices as well. Until everyone dries out, folks will give away anything for some cigarettes or booze. Things like soap and other personal hygene should be stocked anyway, just add more. Your morale is greatly improved after a shower, especially after not having one for a week or two.
Did anybody watch that tv mini-series a year or so ago? The one where they put this group of people together in a town abandoned after Katrina? Told 'em the Gov would be along to save them, gave them about a week or so worth of food. The experiment was 60 days long. A bunch of mixed folks, I'm sure picked, but well mixed. For not being survivalists, they got together and did some quite creative things. Anyway, one day a week or so in, a good rain came along. Didn't take long of watching that hard rain, and feeling sticky, a couple of the guys said "the hell with it" and were out in the rain, stripping down and getting a shower. The girls just looked kind of creeped out at first, but the stickiness won, and everybody bathed in the rain.
They then realized just how much it was worth it, and planned and built a shower.
They blew chunks on their security, and paid accordingly, the only real deficiency I saw. I ended up missing the last two episodes, so don't know what finally happened to them.

[GunnerMax]

You need to read "lights out" gunfixr. FEMA, skills, and the like are the focusa of this HUGE book

[izzyscout21]

I'm with you guys on the ammo. 22LR i think will be very valuble as trade beads. It's easy, you can get it in bulk fo rcheap, and everyone has one. I separated mine into 50 round baggies

[realist]

Ammo is good and I do have various calibers. I think that it is important that you stock extra things that you will be using. I understand cigarettes, I used to smoke, however the cost is so much now I think I will be looking to other things. Since there are so many wineries in our area the booze I stock is hard booze.

[ravensgrove]

I think ammo might be on my list at the bottom....first I'd be after: SALT, TEA/COFFEE et all....I would think spices and caffeine would have quite the currency come shit hit the fan just as they have in the past. Also trade skills if we really went belly up: Drs, Blacksmiths, Mechanics, Engineers...us livestock people....skills, spices and staples. My 3 s's for post shtf currency.

[ladyhk13]

I think ammo might be on my list at the bottom....first I'd be after: SALT, TEA/COFFEE et all....I would think spices and caffeine would have quite the currency come shit hit the fan just as they have in the past. Also trade skills if we really went belly up: Drs, Blacksmiths, Mechanics, Engineers...us livestock people....skills, spices and staples. My 3 s's for post shtf currency.

salt/tea/coffee and spices! for sure! I have been gathering seeds for all kinds of spices and herbs to add to my veggie base. I do have to say that I agree about the ammo though. Can never have enough. You'll change your mind when you get up to NY and decide ya want to hunt bear and local animals to add to your diet. Yummy!

[ravensgrove]

We have ammo...I meant I don't feel ammo is something I desire to hoard...but then again Big J is fond of reloading....maybe thats why I don't feel the need to hoard ammo.

[piranha2]

I have been reading a blog from a guy that went through the war in the Balkan region from 1992 to 1995. Very informative and very disturbing. He says that Bic lighters were as good as gold during the worst period of that war. Just saying.


If interested

http://shtfschool.com/general/first-article-of-selcos-survival-guide/

[ladyhk13]

^we get those too and put them in the sucky machine so that they don't dry out.

[Sniper-T]

just because we practice and train with fire steels and such... doesn't mean the sheeple know what they are. I have LC boxes full of 50 count packets of wooden matches. Any one can use them... in a situation, they will be better than gold!
IMO

[izzyscout21]

^we get those too and put them in the sucky machine so that they don't dry out.

I giggle like a kid every time I see you post "sucky machine".

[izzyscout21]

Food for thought, just occurred to me: you guys that dont reload...........

how valuable do you think that reloading supplies will be? All that brass you leave at the range could be traded for something useful......like a goat..........

There's a lot of folks that do reload and will be looking for supplies

[Sniper-T]

I always pick up all the brass that I find. if it is for a caliber I don`t have, it goes into the trade pile.

[Stormfeather]

^we get those too and put them in the sucky machine so that they don't dry out.

trying to keep my mind out of the gutter and figure out wth you are talking about here. . . .

[Sniper-T]

?
A vacu-sealer, you sicko!

lol

FoodSaver® (http://www.foodsaver.com/Index.aspx)

[Optimist]

Trade goods? If you follow the Rule of 3s, it will lead you to goods that folks will need when the grid is down, and they can't get warm by turning up the thermostat. Bic lighters, as has already been suggested, is a big one. Roll insulation is another one, and the slabs of foam with mylar covers will be another very valuable resource. Any kind of stove that runs on wood, charcoal or other biomass (the old straw stoves that I saw in Mexico come to mind) will be a good trade item, and so will cookware that will stand up to campfire cooking. Blankets will make good trade items, as will warm clothing.

Water containers, from the 2 liter pop bottle on up through canteens and hydration bladders will be in demand, as will buckets. A couple dozen two-gallon tin buckets will be very nice to have if times get hard and running water isn't available any more.

I've built some solar heaters for water and cooking, but those items can probably be improvised by folks on their own. If not, it is another viable trade item.

[izzyscout21]

?
A vacu-sealer, you sicko!

lol

FoodSaver® (http://www.foodsaver.com/Index.aspx)

I knew that, not being gutter minded. Sucker machine just sounds funny.

[mitunnelrat]

My range membership lapsed, but every time I went I'd look for brass to scrounge. There was usually some laying around. I'm not even sure what I have any more. Very good point, izzy.

[izzyscout21]

how about small 20 ounce coke bottles of rice or beans a trade good?

[Sniper-T]

^
assuming that you have enough to give out while keeping your expanding MAG fed... then I think that that would be more valuable than gold.

food now, and a water container for later

[work in progress]

I agree with the comment about having a skilled trade or the ability to produce food, ie meat, under your belt. My line of thinking is that any animal I am going to have needs to feed us or be put to work. We purchased a home with land in order to raise our own meat whether times are good or bad - but even people in suburban areas can make room for a rabbit hutch or a small chicken coop. If it gets to the point where we are using alternative currency you won't have a HOA telling you you can't have a goat or lamb in your backyard. I'd bet they can't jump over a full-sized privacy fence either. (Although goats would probably form a pyramid and climb on each other's backs to get out of there!)
Trained beasts of burden or sport will be invaluable. I remember the Little House on the Prairie when Laura Ingalls Wilder traded her horse for a new wood burning cookstove for her Maw because Paw couldn't afford it. Who's to say it couldn't get back to that?

[Stormfeather]

how about small 20 ounce coke bottles of rice or beans a trade good?

Thats actually not a bad idea Izzy. It also just got me thinking. . .what kind of rate will an exchange be set at? Has anyone else thought of this? I mean, what exactly would a 20 oz coke bottle of Rice be worth? 30 rounds of 9mm/.45? 15 rounds of 223/762? how about all this silver we save up? What exactly will a silver dime be worth in trade goods? Has anyone sat down and possibly went thru what trade goods would be worth when it actually came down to it? Now I understand its a supply/demand mindset, but whats to stop unscrupulous people from super-inflating the market? Hmm. . . this may be a project worth looking into! Setting a trade standard acceptable thru-out the prepping community.

[Stormfeather]

I agree with the comment about having a skilled trade or the ability to produce food, ie meat, under your belt. My line of thinking is that any animal I am going to have needs to feed us or be put to work. We purchased a home with land in order to raise our own meat whether times are good or bad - but even people in suburban areas can make room for a rabbit hutch or a small chicken coop. If it gets to the point where we are using alternative currency you won't have a HOA telling you you can't have a goat or lamb in your backyard. I'd bet they can't jump over a full-sized privacy fence either. (Although goats would probably form a pyramid and climb on each other's backs to get out of there!)
Trained beasts of burden or sport will be invaluable. I remember the Little House on the Prairie when Laura Ingalls Wilder traded her horse for a new wood burning cookstove for her Maw because Paw couldn't afford it. Who's to say it couldn't get back to that?

In a worst case scenario, of course it could get as bad as this. Do we hope it doesnt get this bad, of course, but doesnt mean we cant plan for it.

[Sniper-T]

Interesting point Storm, but IMO it will be dictated by Supply and demand, and by the sheeple. If 10 of them start a bidding war for your bottle of rice, Are you going to stop them and say "no no, this is what I want for it"? and take the first handful of ammo that's thrust at you? That person will then turn around and sell it for 10 times that amount right in front of you.

I believe that it will be an ascending scale - as the event continues and the availability of things decreases their value will increase. But one also must keep in mind, that a barter value is also an undefined variable. If Someone offers me 1000 rounds of 223, unless I know someone that needs it, or that there is a big demand for it, it currently holds a zero trade value for me. I don't shoot it, and would rather keep my food.

Just my .02c

[LUNCHBOX]

Food/ammo....to me thats going to be a big issue in regards to trade in my opinion. I believe sheeple will need both and may not have one to trade for the other. Of course on our side of the fence, we have both and will need both to keep them safe. Food for energy and ammo for safety. I like everybodies take on needing to come up with something but I feel those two items are more important for ourselves. That might sound greedy but they could be at the store in line right beside me.

[Sniper-T]

I have to laugh... or cry... or something!

I was out with the wife on the weekend, chatting with another couple, that were friends of hers. She had told her friend about my Pantry project, and her hubby wanted to know more about it. I had some pics on my phone, so I proceded to explain it, and show him some pics to clarify things.

He liked what I did, but couldn't grasp why I had so much food. he fumbled around, with my phone for a bit, then came up with a number. x number of $ in food just sitting there. Then he went on to berate me for wasting so much money that I could have better spent on an LCD big screen tv with a sound system. and how that would be money MUCH better spent.

I tried to make a few basic points about preparredness, but he just looked at me like I was from another planet. Which I'm sure we are.

I've put one can of sardines off to the side. If he ever shows up looking for handouts/trades. I'll offer him that one can of sardines for his 60" tv. If SHTF, it won't even be worth that, but that should make him feel about as tall as the can.

[izzyscout21]

That person will then turn around and sell it for 10 times that amount right in front of you.




that's why I'll have the umpteen other bottles with me. I can exploit the opportunity he tried to create by controlling the inflation there on the spot.

[bacpacker]

haven't chimed in on this recently, but some good discussions are going around. I tend to agree with LB, I'm not sure I'll be trading food or ammo. At least not much of it and certainly only for something I NEED. I also like WIP's thoughts on needing animals for food and work. If the fuel supply goes down horses, mules, or oxen will be at a premium. Down side is you gotta feed, water and protect them to.

Some things that might (not sure) be a good barter items are: rope, nails, screws, lumber, tarps, plastic, certain tool such as hoes, shovels, hammers, ax, things along those lines. Also depending on the time of year, seeds could bring a premium.

[izzyscout21]

I tend to agree with you there, BP. However, I think after a period of time (maybe even a shorter time, who knows?) food will reign supreme as a trade barter. After they use whats in their pantries and steal everything from the box stores, I think people will be looking for food above all else. That itty bitty bit of rice could be worth as uch aas gold. I'm speculating of course, and could be completely wrong, but it makes sense to me.

[bacpacker]

I'm not disagreeing with you. Food will be the #1 most wanted item, IMO, probably ammo being second. My statement was more what I'm stocking and I guess for a more long term situation. Not to say I won't have some food to trade and a 20oz bottle of it would make a few meals for a small family so would be a very valuable commodity.

[izzyscout21]

I think we are both saying the same thing just in different ways. I think for now, I'm gogin to skip the nails and such and just d the food. I'm not planning on doing any ammo, but it I do it will only be .22. That is a last resort trade item for me, but I still packed some into 50 round ziplocks.

[Sniper-T]

that all said... even with mmy posts, I understand all of this.... but and this is a big BUT.. I will REALLY need something before I trade ammo for anything! I am comfortable with food/water/seeds/ tools/etc... I, personnally... cannot imagine giving someone means to attack me, unless they are offering something unfathomable in return.

The ONLY thing that comes to mind is if they are holding hostage children, and using them for trade. Then I will trade ammo with them, but I would track them and kill them before they left my property. But that is just me.

[LUNCHBOX]

I think we are both saying the same thing just in different ways. I think for now, I'm gogin to skip the nails and such and just d the food. I'm not planning on doing any ammo, but it I do it will only be .22. That is a last resort trade item for me, but I still packed some into 50 round ziplocks.

Izzy, don't overlook the need for nails/screws. Not just for trade but if you plan on relocating to a BOL then you may (probably will) need plenty of both. I keep a lot on hand but if I had to bug I might pick something lighter to take. You being relatively close will be easier to stock.

[izzyscout21]

not saying I wont have any, I just dont think that that will be what folks are looking for. Long, Long term stituation, maybe. But I think that people will look for food long before they start lookign for nails.

Trust me..... I need PLENTY of nails and screw around here.

[Patmark]

Great video man, and thank you for taking the time to make it. I didn't read all 5 pages of this thread but in case it wasn't mentioned keep in mind everyone that in a society where people are hungry and not so sure how they are going to feed themselves and their kids seeds will become way more valuable then gold. While it's true that you cannot store seeds forever and have them be viable, there are many techniques that can be used to preserve seeds for long periods of time. They are small, light, and you can store quite alot of them. You might also consider this, once you have made it to the other side of a crisis and got yourself established and safe, you will be able to set up a little place to germinate and get different kinds of seeds started and trade or barter with these young plants.

You have to ask yourselves in a post apocalyptic world who will be more wealthy the guy with 50 pounds of gold and silver or the guy with the tomato, lettuce, broccoli, melon, ect. ect seeds?

PM :cool:

[Sniper-T]

You have to ask yourselves in a post apocalyptic world who will be more wealthy the guy with 50 pounds of gold and silver or the guy with the tomato, lettuce, broccoli, melon, ect. ect seeds?

PM :cool:

The guy with the bacon!!!

lol

[Stormfeather]

The guy with the bacon!!!

lol

I concur, as do I plan on being "The Bacon Man" when SHTF.

[LUNCHBOX]

Storm, you have Bacon!!!! When and where, I'm there.

[Twitchy]

well storm, hands down you got a spot with me if you bring BACON!!!!!

[izzyscout21]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..............................bacon .....................

[Twitchy]

Somehow, every discussion we have here turns into one about bacon.... :o

[Sniper-T]

yeah, well, um, I guess I souldn't post before dinner then eh!

oops. sorry about that!

[AlphaTea]

Wifey and i only eat canned bacon.
I manage to get it for about $8-$10 shipped every now and then and stock up when I do.
You cant beat the price. You get an equivilent of about 3 pounds (precooked weight) in a can.
Uncooked bacon costs $3-$5 a pound and then you still have to refrigerate and cook it.
Open a can, you can eat it cold or heat it up. put the leftover, if you have any, in the frige or freezer.
Excellent flavor. In the past 4 years I have probably been thru a can a month.
This is the most rotated prep I have
I'm gonna go have some bacon now

[bacpacker]

Your killin me Alpha. Where do you get you cans at? I may need to invest a little in some pork.

Good to see you back, I haven't seen you on in a bit.

[izzyscout21]

Wifey and i only eat canned bacon.
I manage to get it for about $8-$10 shipped every now and then and stock up when I do.
You cant beat the price. You get an equivilent of about 3 pounds (precooked weight) in a can.
Uncooked bacon costs $3-$5 a pound and then you still have to refrigerate and cook it.
Open a can, you can eat it cold or heat it up. put the leftover, if you have any, in the frige or freezer.
Excellent flavor. In the past 4 years I have probably been thru a can a month.
This is the most rotated prep I have
I'm gonna go have some bacon now

Great......another reason for me to buy bacon.............

[AlphaTea]

Your killin me Alpha. Where do you get you cans at? I may need to invest a little in some pork.

Good to see you back, I haven't seen you on in a bit.

Yea, I usually check in here a few times a week to see whats up and to make sure this place does not degrade like the last SHTF site I frequented. So far THIS is the place to be.

I likes my BACON. “Bacon is proof that god loves us. You can barbecue it, boil it, broil it, bake it, sautee it. There's, um, bacon kebabs, bacon creole, bacon gumbo, pan fried, deep fried, stir fried. There's pineapple bacon and lemon bacon, coconut bacon, pepper bacon, bacon soup, bacon stew, bacon salad, bacon and potatoes, bacon burger, bacon sandwich, bacon on the half shell, chocolate covered bacon, bacon ice cream, bacon bubble gum and bacon breath mints. Dey is bacon dog treats, bacon soda pop, and bacon lip balm. Bacon comes thick, thin, cooked, raw, canned, slabbed, cured, smoked, peppered and maple flavored.... That's, that's about it.”

Looks like most places are out of bacon right now. I have bought from:
Real Canned Bacon from Best Prices Storable Foods (http://www.internet-grocer.net/bacon.htm)
http://www.mredepot.com/ (http://www.mredepot.com/servlet/the-364/Yoder%E2%80%99s-Celebrity-Canned-Bacon/Detail)
http://beprepared.com/ (http://beprepared.com/product.asp?pn=FS%20B050)
Yoder's Canned Bacon (http://www.campingsurvival.com/yocaba.html)
http://www.readydepot.com (http://www.readydepot.com/servlet/the-Food-cln-Meat,-Canned/Categories)
There are others too

Just check often and wait for sales.

[bacpacker]

Thanks for the links. I may have to try some bacon lip balm as well. You don't want chapped lips after all.

[AlphaTea]

http://www.mcphee.com/shop/product_images/q/11957__47907.jpg

When you open it up, it looks like strips of bacon squeezed together.

[Sniper-T]

Some interesting points, from the same guy with the 10 prepping mistakes.

Top 10 Barter Items for SHTF - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DicFARysseI&feature=socblog_ti)

[wingnutx]

how about small 20 ounce coke bottles of rice or beans a trade good?

I have long thought that a ziplock of rice would be a near perfect trade item.

Like most preppers I have enough rice to build a fort out of, and I buy ziplocks in bulk because they are so useful.

Change that to ziplock of salt/sugar/.22/aspirin, etc...

[izzyscout21]

I have long thought that a ziplock of rice would be a near perfect trade item.

Like most preppers I have enough rice to build a fort out of, and I buy ziplocks in bulk because they are so useful.

Change that to ziplock of salt/sugar/.22/aspirin, etc...


I find the coke bottles to be more durable for storage in the long run. I also store some thinks like .22 ammo in Glad containers. The ziplocks make a whole lot more sense for things like sugar, as it will settle and cake inside the bottles.