Rabbits

[helomech]

Well we got chickens and they are doing great, got fish in the pond, started on my aquaponics (money slowing that down) and today started on the rabbit cages. As soon as the water nipples and food dishes come in we are getting our rabbits, and they should be in soon. Anyways just started a few hours ago, only bought wire so far, had the wood laying around. Wife is picking up another roll of wire, then I just have to move it into the chicken run (it will be safe from predators there) and put the legs on. Already got the legs cut.

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii247/helomech1973/home/IMG_1826.jpg

[JustAPrepper]

"In to the chicken run" is a good idea.

We had an online prepper-friend who was raising rabbits in raised hutches with wire bottoms. They had them going for quite a while and were pretty successful with them (raising, cleaning, eating, etc.) until a dog came through and attacked all the feet of the rabbits through the wire. Some feet were chewed clean off while skin was stripped from bone on others. She had to do a massive cull on her litter. Just something I filed away in my memory bank and thought I'd share.

[helomech]

Thanks, it seemed like the best place for them. It is completely secure, except for the small automatic chicken door that is open during the daylight. But at night it is all locked up.

[helomech]

Well just have to cut out the door, build the nest box for each of the 3 sections, and run the automatic water system.

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii247/helomech1973/home/IMG_1827.jpg

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii247/helomech1973/home/IMG_1828.jpg

[bacpacker]

Looks like a nice start Helo, Your gonna be well fed before long, well better than you already are.

We had a similar type hutch when I was a kid. We had dogs get in it too. They ripped the wire open and got ours. I would probably do a second layer of wire with a bit of spacing between the layers. Being in the chicken coop would be a great thing IMO.

Speaking on the chicken coop, how is your run set up. Post, fence, d?o you have some kind of top

Edit: You beat me to the post.

[Evolver]

Very nice helo! How are you going to do the auto watering?

[helomech]

Oh yeah still need to put a roof over the cages.

[bacpacker]

Is your framework metal pipe? That's what it look's like. What ht is it?

[helomech]

Very nice helo! How are you going to do the auto watering?

Thanks, going to do just like I have for the chickens, except use rabbit nozzles. I will run a water line to a 5 gallon bucket with a toilet float in it. Then run a line to each cage with a rabbit nipple. The toilet float will keep the bucket full.

[helomech]

Looks like a nice start Helo, Your gonna be well fed before long, well better than you already are.

We had a similar type hutch when I was a kid. We had dogs get in it too. They ripped the wire open and got ours. I would probably do a second layer of wire with a bit of spacing between the layers. Being in the chicken coop would be a great thing IMO.

Speaking on the chicken coop, how is your run set up. Post, fence, d?o you have some kind of top

Edit: You beat me to the post.

Well my dogs don't go in there, and they will keep other predators away. The chicken run is made of chain link fence so it is very secure. The run has chain link buried under the ground and all the way around the structure. The top of the run is welded wire. I used 2.5 inch pipe for the frame work. I have some pics of the build if you would like I can post them. My chickens don't even use the run, they free range all day.

[helomech]

Is your framework metal pipe? That's what it look's like. What ht is it?



Yes it is 2.5 inch galvanized pipe I got from work for the chicken run. The rabbit cages have no framework, just the wire bent to shape.

[Sniper-T]

This was in the local paper a while back. got me thinking... in fact it got me to collect a buinch of stuff to get started... but my wife has a few issues with killing and eating the cute little things (gag).

I only shoot wild ones an eat them when she isn't home.

Rosenfeld-area rabbit farmer Viktor Maier holds some of his livestock with son Jon, 9, and daughter Leah, 7. Maier, who keeps 1,000 rabbits on his farm, got into the business after a friend gave him three rabbits, who multiplied.

NEAR ROSENFELD -- There's that old Super Bowl commercial where modern-day cowboys are comparing scars obtained from their so-called profession as "cat herders."

Tough? You want tough? Try rabbit ranching.

Viktor Maier has been a rabbit rancher ever since a friend gave him three rabbits. The rabbits multiplied like mad, living up to their reputation. So a neighbour suggested he go into the rabbit business.

Five years later, Maeir had 1,000 rabbits. Today, he keeps 1,000 rabbits and sells up to 2,000 per year as meat in several Winnipeg food stores.

The largest rabbit farm in Manitoba is believed to be one near Neepawa with about 5,000 hares. There are about 15 rabbit farms sprinkled around the province, but most are smaller.

Kurt Porteous and wife Elaine, who farm cattle near Marquette, a short distance northwest of Winnipeg, got rabbits for their daughter Kathleen, now 13. Kathleen had up to 100 rabbits that she would sell into the California market.

"We got into it because our daughter really liked rabbits. The kids built our cages and got to keep money from it," said Porteous.

Rex Pettyjohn of Rorketon, north of Ste. Rose du Lac, keeps up to 500 rabbits. He trucks about 500 rabbits for himself and other breeders into California every five weeks. The rabbits are slaughtered for their meat, but also for their blood, which is used in various human drugs. The brain is also used, made into a powder and used as a clotting agent on the operating table.

The Maeirs raise rabbits strictly for the meat market.

Irene Maier compares rabbit meat to chicken. "We like it in the oven or in a slow cooker," she said. The family eats rabbit once a week either as a stew, roasted, barbecued or as rabbit noodle soup, she said.

Their rabbits are processed at Waldner's Meats in Niverville and sold in De Luca's, La Grotta, Classy Meats, and Portuguese Fish and Food Market. Retail prices range from $6 to $7 per pound. They also sell the meat at their farm, about 85 kilometres southwest of Winnipeg.

Rabbit farming is about as soft and cozy as it sounds, until you get to the slaughtering part. There's no roping rabbits or rabbit roundups. The rabbits at the Maeirs' place are caged, like in a pet store. The cages are stacked three rows high in an old barn on the family's seven-acre lot.

Maier has suffered no scratches or bites whatsoever from his rabbits. Even when they get out of their cages now and again, they come right back because they know where the food is.

What's meant by "breed like a rabbit" is that the female can give birth to six to eight little ones, and sometimes up to 14, every five weeks. Gestation lasts four weeks and the females are ready to breed a week later. A doe rabbit will give birth to about 100 rabbits per year.

This schedule is followed like clockwork on the farm. The family raises California and New Zealand rabbits that are best for meat. The rabbits are fed until they reach a weight of eight to 10 pounds, a process that takes just three to four months.


from here:
Local - Winnipeg Free Press (http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/) ... 14209.html

could be lucrative...

[bacpacker]

I'd love to see pic's. I haven't even thought about chain link. Did you find a buy and do the install, or hire it out? I like the way it looks, very secure. It's sure worth exploring.

I'd also like to see/hear about your automatic water system. I will rig up one of those for mine. Once I get the water tanks set up, that'll be a convenient system.

[Evolver]

Well you and Bp have definitely planted a seed in my wants and needs psyche to get the ball rolling on our coop. Money is very tight right now due to me being laid up for awhile and Christmas coming but come the end of January our coop WILL be underway. It won't be the build that I want but that can come later... right? :)

[helomech]

I'd love to see pic's. I haven't even thought about chain link. Did you find a buy and do the install, or hire it out? I like the way it looks, very secure. It's sure worth exploring.

I'd also like to see/hear about your automatic water system. I will rig up one of those for mine. Once I get the water tanks set up, that'll be a convenient system.



Going to make a new thread about the chicken coupe, automatic water, and automatic door.

[ravensgrove]

I'm not a fan of wire cages for many reasons not the least of which is sanitation and rabbit haunch health. In lieu of we went to wood slat. We aren't taking our breeding set with us, 5 does and a buck. 3000 miles is a long way for them to go, so we will restock in NY. I sold the whole set up today, plus tractor and giant cage. I'll be looking to get rabbits the second I hit NY, there is nothing better for a garden then rabbit poo.

[helomech]

What is unsanitary about a wire cage. The lady we are getting ours from shows many different types of rabbits, and sells commercially and she uses wire cages. BTW her daughter won 2nd place in Houston last weekend.

[ravensgrove]

Have you ever had rabbits? I have had rabbits for years and years...wire cages are just such a pain in the ass to clean was my only point. Winning ribbons doesn't necessarily mean anything. I sell registered Checkered and Flemish rabbits all the time. Many rabbtis from our group have taken all sorts of accolades for the 4H crowd as well. My only other comment on your plan is just because you can breed a rabbit every 5 weeks, does not mean that it is in the best interest of the doe...you'll burn them out really quickly. I breed three times a year.

*** damn auto correct

[helomech]

Have you ever had rabbits? I have had rabbits for years and years...wire cages are just such a pain in the ass to clean was my only point. Winning ribbons doesn't necessarily mean anything. I sell registered Checkered and Flemish rabbits all the time. Many rabbtis from our group have taken all sorts of accolades for the 4H crowd as well. My only other comment on your plan is just because you can breed a rabbit every 5 weeks, does not mean that it is in the best interest of the doe...you'll burn them out really quickly. I breed three times a year.

*** damn auto correct

Nope never had rabbits. Just going with everything on the internet and a the friend that does it. Well winning in a contest means the rabbits are very healthy, and also that they hold the breed standards. So it does mean a lot. Especially in a contest the size of the one in Houston. Sure the small town ones are fairly easy to win. I only plan on letting them breed when we want more meat. So not very often, the babies will be killed as soon as they are off the mother.

[Sniper-T]

I've heard 2 schools of thought on the wire bottoms.

1. use it.
2. don't use it.

lol

seriously, the issue with the wire is that if the tractor isn't on level ground, there could be a place where there is a gap under the wire. when the bunnies hop over to this area their feet/toes can slip down between the wires and/or straddle the wires. They can get cuts around their feet tops or bottoms, and between their toes. being that the wire is on the ground, and the bunnies are hoping on dirt/poop, and their feet come in contact with the wire, it is safe to say that the wire isn't the cleanest.

Infected hurting bunnies dont grow as big as fast. so while you may be able to save some bucks innitially, you could be setting yourself up for greater costs down the line. esp if it is your breeders that are getting hurt.


Just my .02 cents
or 2-5/8 cents USD

[helomech]

They will not be in a tractor, just in these cages elevated above the ground. I may build an enclosure for them later that lets them run around on the ground, but will see how I like them first.

[ravensgrove]

Ummmmm you do realize that babies will not be butchering weight as soon as they are off their mother? She will wean them by three to four weeks...and they won't be butcher weight until 14-16 wks.....

[helomech]

Depends on the breed. Some are supposed to be butchered immediately.

[ravensgrove]

You're going to butcher rabbits at 4 weeks old? Someone is lying to you my friend no rabbit gets butcher weight by 4 weeks old.

[helomech]

You're going to butcher rabbits at 4 weeks old? Someone is lying to you my friend no rabbit gets butcher weight by 4 weeks old.



According to a few places, including Texas A&M, for the 4H program. I would take Texas A&M's word on it. They do have one of the best Ag programs in the country.

[Foghorn]

I've raised rabbits for quite some time now. Mostly California and New Zealand types, but by no means registered. I live too far off the beaten path to make raising rabbits commercially viable so I just raise them for my neighbors and myself.

I use hardware wood frame with hardware cloth (1/4" sq. wire) for the cages. Yes, they are a pain to clean unless I stay at it on a regular schedual.

My does keep their litter with them for four to six weeks and I let the does rest for about two weeks after seperating the doe from the litter. The litter is usually ready to harvest at ten to twelve weeks. (they won't be a large as some would want but they sure are tender)

I've had pretty good luck with my does staying healthy and the litters growing to an acceptable weight.

I'm going to have to look at Texas A&M's site. Four weeks is hard to fathom.

JMO
Doug

[helomech]

Got the link to A&M's site, but trying to find the part first. My internet is so slow with a PDF file. The bottom of my cages is 1/2"X1" wire, went with this also because of info from A&M. Sides are 1"X1".


Here is the site.

http://texas4-h.tamu.edu/library/files/rabbit_project_reference_manual.pdf

[helomech]

It wasn't my internet, it was the broweser I was using. Opened up fast when I switched to google chrome. Anyways if you go to page 9 it says this "
Weaning
When rabbits are about 3 weeks old, they
leave the box and eat with their mother. Do not
wean until the young are 8 to 10 weeks old.
They should be butchered immediately.
Prospective breeders can be left with the doe
a few days, although it is unnecessary beyond
10 weeks. The doe can be rebred a week before
weaning the litter

[Foghorn]

Thank you helomech for the PDF. I didn't read it all but will earmark it for later.

I got a little confused about the harvest time we were talking about in the thread. Harvesting the young at 8 to 10 weeks is more in line with my thinking.

I like to seperate the doe from the litter for a week or two to help my does recover before being rebred. I feel it keep the does heathy and breedable longer.

The 1x1 wire size seems to be asking for injurys to their feet and legs IMO. I can see where it would make for easier cleaning.

Thanks again for the PDF.

JMO
Doug

[helomech]

Thank you helomech for the PDF. I didn't read it all but will earmark it for later.

I got a little confused about the harvest time we were talking about in the thread. Harvesting the young at 8 to 10 weeks is more in line with my thinking.

I like to seperate the doe from the litter for a week or two to help my does recover before being rebred. I feel it keep the does heathy and breedable longer.

The 1x1 wire size seems to be asking for injurys to their feet and legs IMO. I can see where it would make for easier cleaning.

Thanks again for the PDF.

JMO
Doug

The wire on the bottom is 1/2X1, not 1X1. It is what is recommended everywhere I could find.

[Sniper-T]

Helo, thanks for taking the time and sharing all this info with us...

Why did you build the run up in the air like that? When I saw the info about the tractors, it seemed to me that that would be THE way to go, as they'll almost self feed. I didn't see a lot of green on the ground in your pics, I assumed it was because of the seasons, or is that normal where you are?

tx again!

[helomech]

I built them this way because it is what was recommended, also because grass does not grow very well here. If the rabbits are something I want to continue to do, then I will build a big pen and plant lots of grass in it. But I am not sure that I want to keep rabbits full time or not.

[Sniper-T]

Thanks. The area I was(am) looking at locating mine is about 90% clover, and was told that a tractor would be best for me. And also thanks for the info on the auto feed/watering/doors... the biggest issue I had is about having to get someone to come feed and water them if I am away.

you may have just revived my little idea yet. And if I put it in an out of the way place, my wife wouldn't even know until she starts seeing packages in the freezer!

mwahahahahaha
http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z457/mcbashie/smilies/Really_Mad.gif

[Grumpy Old Man]

For you Sniper

http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd421/GrumpyOldMan53/530599.gif

[ravensgrove]

an 8 wk old rabbit is going to be mighty tiny....even a 10 wk old rabbit is going to be mighty tiny...I raise the largest breeds of rabbit out there...and even THEY would be mighty tiny that young. I think this is one of those times you are going to think one thing...and reality is going to pan out a tiny bit different...is all I am saying.

[helomech]

an 8 wk old rabbit is going to be mighty tiny....even a 10 wk old rabbit is going to be mighty tiny...I raise the largest breeds of rabbit out there...and even THEY would be mighty tiny that young. I think this is one of those times you are going to think one thing...and reality is going to pan out a tiny bit different...is all I am saying.

I thought the same thing when we raised our first chickens. At 6 weeks old they weighed 8 lbs, so I am not doubting there info. They also figure slaughter time for you to make the most money. Raise them longer and the feed bill eats into your profits.

[helomech]

Well we got our rabbits today. Traded 4 Austrolorp hens for 4 pregnant females. They each weight about 10 lbs, and where bred by different bucks.

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii247/helomech1973/IMG_1918.jpg

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii247/helomech1973/IMG_1919.jpg

[Foghorn]

Thanks for the update and the pictures. Looks like you made a good trade.

When were the does bred? What are your plans for nests?

Please keep us updated.

Doug

[helomech]

Two where bred on 12-23-11, one bred on 12-21-11, and the other bred on 12-27-11. Nest boxes going in 3 days before they are to deliver, so 1-24-12, 1-20-12, and 1-21-12.

[Foghorn]

Any news?

[helomech]

It has been crazy here. My dog had a litter, and died the next day. So we have been taking care of the puppies. She had 12, but we gave away all but 4. One died.

On to the rabbits. One had 5, one had 1, another had 1, and the last one had 2 but they both died. Got to bring 6 to the 4H show, hopefully the buyers allow my kids to bring them back home. If not I need a male rabbit.

[Foghorn]

Sorry to hear about your dog. You've had your hands full trying to raise day old pups.

Could you take your does to someone who has a buck. I know we do that here to keep the genetics changing. Sometimes the buck owner will take a young one out of the litter for the service. Usually the buck owner is just happy to help.

[Taz Baby]

[QUOTE=helomech;15982]Well we got our rabbits today. Traded 4 Austrolorp hens for 4 pregnant females. They each weight about 10 lbs, and where bred by different bucks.

[IMG]

[IMG]

Sorry to hear about your dog. At least you were able to save the pups. What kind are they? Nice looking rabbits.

[helomech]

The mom was a Great Dane, and the dad was a English Mastiff. The pups where 1.5 lbs when born.

Thanks

[helomech]

Sorry to hear about your dog. You've had your hands full trying to raise day old pups.

Could you take your does to someone who has a buck. I know we do that here to keep the genetics changing. Sometimes the buck owner will take a young one out of the litter for the service. Usually the buck owner is just happy to help.

Thanks


Yeah, can do that. But would like to bring in a male that can be bred to all the does. It will be a while before we breed them again, going to give them at least a month after they ween the babies.

[Taz Baby]

I bet the are beautiful. Hope you find homes for them. If not I would take one off your hands for ya. We are looking for a big dog for the farm.

[helomech]

They are cute as heck, but they are all given away already.

[helomech]

Well a update on the rabbits. They are just over a month old and still nursing on mom. They weigh about 3 lbs.They have to weigh less than 5 lbs for the 4H fair, so we may have to cut back on their feed. They just got weighed for the fair and had their ears tatoo done.


http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii247/helomech1973/home/424370_3501594025375_1437432312_3384188_1854363906 _n.jpg

[Sniper-T]

I need to get me some of these!!!

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/geoffstamp/Humourous/Rarebit.jpg

[helomech]

would be scared to kill that by hand

[Taz Baby]

It,s amazing what you can do with angling your camera. Illusions are great mind bogglers.

[helomech]

Well killed, cleaned and getting ready to eat our first two rabbits. They are just about 3 months old and dressed weighed 3 lbs each. After taking off the ribs and getting the meat off the back bone I ended up with 4 lbs of meat between the 2 rabbits, that is including the leg bones. Those bones weigh almost nothing. Got at least 4 more to kill and butcher tomorrow.

[Grumpy Old Man]

It,s amazing what you can do with angling your camera. Illusions are great mind bogglers.

Actually that photo is of a guy in Germany with his Flemish Giant Rabbit. Here are some links

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flemish_Giant

German Giant Rabbit | Rabbit Breeds (http://www.rabbit-breeds.net/german_giant_rabbit/german_giant_rabbit.html)

Photogallery | Sugar Ray's Rabbits (http://www.rayrabbit.com/photos)

[Grumpy Old Man]

For Sniper and Taz

http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd421/GrumpyOldMan53/funny-pictures-animal-capshunz-their-relationship-was-doomed-from-the-start1.jpg

[Sniper-T]

^
I think good ole dad did a little more than just munch on mom!!

[helomech]

So far have 14 baby rabbits with two more moms left to deliver.

[Taz Baby]

For Sniper and Taz

http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd421/GrumpyOldMan53/funny-pictures-animal-capshunz-their-relationship-was-doomed-from-the-start1.jpg

What kind of Rabbit would you call that? Tigbit?

[Grumpy Old Man]

What kind of Rabbit would you call that? Tigbit?

Ragger?

[Foghorn]

So far have 14 baby rabbits with two more moms left to deliver.

Thanks for the update.

Have you bred doe #1 back yet? How did you like the ones you dressed out?

[helomech]

Thanks for the update.

Have you bred doe #1 back yet? How did you like the ones you dressed out?

Yes all does where bred, one had 7, but it got cold one night then hot the next day and she lost all 7 of them. My wife thinks the nest box got in the sun so she moved them and rebred the doe. The other one that had 7 is doing great, one had 2 and they are both doing good and the other doe didn't have any. She didn't have any last time either. So we are going to breed her one more time and if she does not have a litter we are going to process her.

[Sniper-T]

did you actually get meat off the ribs?

Whenever I've cleaned rabbit I just take the backstraps and hind legs; unless it was a big bunny, then the front legs too. No muss no fuss, and no need to open up the guts.

[helomech]

did you actually get meat off the ribs?

Whenever I've cleaned rabbit I just take the backstraps and hind legs; unless it was a big bunny, then the front legs too. No muss no fuss, and no need to open up the guts.

Not off the ribs, but the backstrap and tenderloins was a lot of meat. The back strap was probably a foot long. We put them in a pressure cooker and then pulled all the meat off the bones. Much easier that way. Then we canned all the meat, well all but the meat we used to make supper.

[helomech]

Here are some pics. We bred the one that lost it's litter, and the one that did not have any babies. If the one that did not have babies does not get have babies this time we will cull her.

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii247/helomech1973/20120503_102856.jpg

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii247/helomech1973/20120503_102822.jpg

[ladyhk13]

I don't think I could bring myself to eat one! They are just too darn cute!

[helomech]

They won't be that cute in 3 months, and they are also real cute with a gravy.

[Grumpy Old Man]

For Lady HK

http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd421/GrumpyOldMan53/530599.gif

[ladyhk13]

Grumpy you are a cold, cruel man!

[Grumpy Old Man]

Naw, I just have a twisted sense of humor! As proof I offer my previous post of the tiger rabbit.

[Sniper-T]

When my Grandpa used to farm, all my cousins would be over Oohing and Aahing over the new chicks, or lambs, or whatever, he had a saying. " A good whack with a hammer will knock the cute off of anything"

[ladyhk13]

I'm going to go hug my kitty now...............you guys stay away. If ya ever visit I'm hiding her!

[bacpacker]

When my Grandpa used to farm, all my cousins would be over Oohing and Aahing over the new chicks, or lambs, or whatever, he had a saying. " A good whack with a hammer will knock the cute off of anything"

Or a .22!

[ladyhk13]

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggg gggggggggggggggg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sniper-T]

sorry lady... but it really does help if you just think of them as food, not cuddly. give them food names if you have to. Like my resident deer, 'steak', 'Roast', 'burger', etc... or my last cat, 'Stirfry'

:cool:

[Grumpy Old Man]

sorry lady... but it really does help if you just think of them as food, not cuddly. give them food names if you have to. Like my resident deer, 'steak', 'Roast', 'burger', etc... or my last cat, 'Stirfry'

:cool:

Don't forget to wok the dog!

[ladyhk13]

Yeah, they did that in Korea too. Friend of mine came home from work and found his dog missing. Went next door and found that MamaSon had decided it would be good for dinner when he saw it's head in the pot he lost it and tore her house apart. He was not a happy camper. Most of them don't do it anymore. I think the older ones do during a celebration that is held in August (I think) every year.
Ok guys...these are house pets here in the U.S. last I heard. EMP hasn't hit and no one is starving yet.

[ladyhk13]

ya'll are screwing with me aren't ya?

[Sniper-T]

yep.... I for one am! although my last cat was actually named 'stirfry' she never did hit the wok without her skin on....

[Grumpy Old Man]

Of course we are! Allow an old man some entertainment-it keeps me out of the pool halls. BTW I found a rare picture of your favorite BOV.

[helomech]

When my Grandpa used to farm, all my cousins would be over Oohing and Aahing over the new chicks, or lambs, or whatever, he had a saying. " A good whack with a hammer will knock the cute off of anything"

Hammer works great for the rabbits.

[ladyhk13]

Of course we are! Allow an old man some entertainment-it keeps me out of the pool halls. BTW I found a rare picture of your favorite BOV.

Well do post it Gramps!

[Grumpy Old Man]

It's down in the random thoughts thread, but since you asking so sweetly......

http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd421/GrumpyOldMan53/funny-cat-car-strange-vehicles.jpg

[ladyhk13]

Now that's a cool kitty! Try putting that one in your pot Sniper!!!

[Sniper-T]

I did, the pink ran off, and it tuned out the same way as it always does:

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m262/dman90231/wet_cat_113159625.jpg

[Grumpy Old Man]

Here is Lady HK's cat hiding from Sniper

http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd421/GrumpyOldMan53/Stelth.jpg

[ladyhk13]

Hey, how did you get a pic of my kitty????? You better stay away...I have protection!