Storing seeds?

[GunnerMax]

hey guys, I surfed onto this site, and wanted to know what you think about it? I think seeds, for me and my expecting wife, will be a better option than stockpiling alot of food. (remember we live in the suburbs in an 175 unit apartment complex, and 99% sure we will not stay during a long term SHTF.

Emergency Seed Bank - Best Non Hybrid Seeds Available (http://www.emergencyseedbank.com)

my main reasoning for contemplating this is that I want to be a person who has worth. I already have military training, and specilize in guns, explosives, and hydraulics. I have some electrical experience. I want to be that family that gets taken into a farm familiy. Who will bring his worth. I hope you are understanding what I am saying.

so, thoughts/inputs/suggestions?

[helomech]

After I get my aquaponics set up I am ordering some. You can't do much with farming without non hybrid seeds.

[shtfsurvivalist]

I have a large collection of seeds. I think it is a great idea to stock up on them.

[mitunnelrat]

Though I still recommend you develop a more specific plan I can follow your logic on this. I think its good you're considering what assets you can bring to bear in an emergency, but I'm not sure I'd use a physical asset as a selling point. I'd hold knowledge of their existence in reserve (since you'll depend on them for survival and they're not a barter item), at the very least, in case you can't sell yourself of the merit of your skills and experience alone. If you don't have to mention them until after you strike a deal, so much the better.

Physical assets can be taken, knowledge and skills cannot, and there will be as many thieves and rapscallions, per capita, in shit kickers as there are in sneakers. As a current example, google the Ohio farm stead whose owners were luring victims in on craigslist and killing them.

It really is a decent idea, I think, if you have few to no other options, but there's that old saying of not playing all your cards in one hand...

[GunnerMax]

for the record, I will not rely solely on seeds. This would be one of the long term options.

[Evolver]

Justa and I are using Non-hybrids (heirloom) only in our garden and the reason why is mainly for the saving of the seeds from what we a have grown to be planted again the following year or season. This is where is gets tricky... You have to guard from cross pollination, know how to care for the seeds so they can be planted to grow again, know what will grow in your area and when to plant them. So... having good seeds is wise choice and learning how to turn them seeds into fruit now before SHTF is of the importance. :)

[realist]

Rat is right you need to have more. Your thought process is good, you want to make yourself marketable. I suggest that you try to stockpile at least 6 months of freeze dried food along with your seeds. The freeze dried food is lighter than others such as MREs. You will need to have something to tide you over until your seeds grow. If you arrive a some place you they may not have enough food to feed you. Just because it is a farm does not mean they have a bunch of food. Remember there are a lot of farms out there that grow only one type of crop and it may not be what you will be able to eat, i.e. alfalfa. Also they may buy their seed every year and not have any for the next year.

[Evolver]

One more thing that I should add is when your buying seed banks it's best if you can find a supplier that sells banks by growing zones because what grows well in the north doesn't always grow well in the south and visa versa. Better yet research what is known to grow in your area by visiting your local extension website Cooperative Extension System Offices (http://www.csrees.usda.gov/Extension/) and put your own seed banks together. :)

[bacpacker]

A lot of good thoughts being brought out.

The way I look at seeds, I want a 2 year minimum stockpile. What you grow this year may not be harvested for a variety of reasons. The second years seeds will get you thru the next year. As an example, I had my garden started and was pretty far along with the warmer weather plantings (tomatos, peppers, etc) and we had the worst hail storms I've ever witnessed. It destroyed most everything we had out, including some fruits, berries, grapes, what have you. I did replant but had so so success with the replanting.

You have a good idea of what your wanting to do and IMO you are going about it in a smart, step by step way. Just keep thinking thru various scenario's and what your response to it will be. Getting ready for any scenario takes time to plan and accumulate the needed supplies. I've been going at it for years and still don't feel close to being where I want to be.

[bacpacker]

Evolver is right, seeds need to be purchased according to your location. There is a huge range of different varieties based on how far north/south you are.
The seed banks have a good variety of stuff in them, but I would prefer to put my own stock together. There are certain things we have found that works great here and other not so well. Stuff we love the taste, some that haven't got much taste. So I would want to build my own. What I have done for years is just by what we want to plant each year and maybe get a third more to store. I also buy some new varieties of stuff we like. I'm always experimenting with new kinds of tomato's, watermelons, squash. To me thats the best way to see what you like, what grows well, what keeps the best.

[Sniper-T]

lots of good points.

Do you have a general location in mind where you want to re-locate to?

What about seasons? If someone showed up at my doorstep in the fall with nothing but some defensive skills and a handful of seeds that wont produce for 9 months. I would not be welcoming them in to eat my preps with nothing else offered.

And remember to rotate... seeds don't last forever!

[JustAPrepper]

Lots of good points. Evolver and BP are right. Seeds will have little value if they won't grow in your zone or conditions. If you made your way to my door with a bunch of seeds that can't take our heat or humidity, I might have to send you on your way.

I spent weeks researching Heirlooms. Most do not come with zone designations so I read every description of every seed and made the best educated guesses I could. I bought at least two varieties of everything (tomatoes and peppers many more). Some grew much better than others and some showed more tolerance to insects and disease than others so I record all that information for future plantings. Keeping growing notes is also important. I went back ten years and researched all the monthly averages of temps and rainfall and logged it all in a notebook. Now I log the daily conditions, how the garden is doing and a recap at the end of each month.

Go on line and order a Baker Creek Catalog. They are free but they run out fast. It's a good place to start and they have pretty good descriptions. You can customize your seed stash. If you're not gardening now, keep them in the freezer to extend their viability.

[Sniper-T]

If you're not gardening now, keep them in the freezer to extend their viability.

Really?? The first year after I planted a heirloom garden, I left all my extra seeds in the garden shack for the winter, and not one would geminate the following spring. I have been going the 'cool/dark' route since.

Do you put them in anything special in the freezer?

[bacpacker]

I to use a garden journal and keep track of as much info as i can think to enter. It has proven useful and suprisingly dates are starting to reapear for planting , 1st harvest etc.

Something i have tried as well to add some variety. I've picked up seed from colder climates, such as some tomatos that originated in Russia. I put them out a full month ahead of our normal planting time. They did well and were finished by the time our usual crop started coming in. I don't think this would work going to a warmer zone crop. But it did extend our harvest and probably would allow us to extend into the fall further.

[JustAPrepper]

Really?? The first year after I planted a heirloom garden, I left all my extra seeds in the garden shack for the winter, and not one would geminate the following spring. I have been going the 'cool/dark' route since.

Do you put them in anything special in the freezer?

The only reason I said that is because it doesn't appear that he'll be gardening anytime soon, just getting seeds for the future and I've read in multiple places, including gardening forums, the best place to seeds is in the freezer. There's controversy over the best way to do it but the ones I've stored in the deep freeze are in their original package tossed in ziplock bags and in a little bin that sits in the top of the chest. I've also read never to Vac Seal them because they actually need oxygen to survive.

This is worrisome. Is it possible your shed actually got *too* cold for them? Could they have gotten moisture on them then froze?

Believe it or not, it's almost time for us to start our Spring seedlings. Even though the garden is struggling I can still attempt to grow a few things until we get it solarized. Guess I'll have to do some germination tests of some things in the freezer ASAP!

[Sniper-T]

in their original package tossed in ziplock bags and in a little bin that sits in the top of the chest.

This is worrisome. Is it possible your shed actually got *too* cold for them? Could they have gotten moisture on them then froze?

Believe it or not, it's almost time for us to start our Spring seedlings. Even though the garden is struggling I can still attempt to grow a few things until we get it solarized. Guess I'll have to do some germination tests of some things in the freezer ASAP!

That's essentially what I did... just put all the packets into a ziplock, then hung the ziplock with a binder clip off a rafter. The only moisture would have come from within, as it was going through the freeze thaw cycles in the fall, before we get into the cold.

I read that chest type freezers operate around 0 deg F. If that is true, then, yes, they might have gotten too cold. It is not uncommon for it to get to and stay around -40F for a prolonged period. with any kind of wind, it is also not uncommon to reach temps in excess of -70F.

Side note: in the Spring, when I went to plant, all the seeds looked fine, they weren't popped open or anything, nor were packets stuck together or anything that might indicate a moisture issue. But when I tried to germinate them in my indoor greenhouse. absolutely nothing germinated. and I tried multiple times, in multiple ways. I bought some new seeds and had them sprouting in days

Since then I store mine inside.

[ravensgrove]

DO NOT FREEZE YOUR SEEDS. Seeds need oxygen.

I am sorry I vehemently disagree with this advice. As a commercial gardener and an avid gardener my entire life, I have never not saved seed.

1) do not vaccuum seal, they need oxygen
2) do not freeze they need oxygen

I store seed in empty spice jars with the hard lid off (so just the lid with holes open, brown paper bags, et all. You do not want to seal in anything that is not breathable for any length of time. This is why most seed packets come in paper envelopes.

I grow from saved seed predominantly every single year, unless I am trying some new variety.

[JustAPrepper]

Raven, not to disagree with you, believe me, I very much respect your knowledge, but freezing seeds does not elimate oxygen from the atmosphere of the storage vessel unless they've been Vac Sealed in a bag or jar. Even ziplock bags with all the air squished out are porous enough to allow pass-through air. I'm not sure that particular argument holds up.

[Evolver]

Really?? The first year after I planted a heirloom garden, I left all my extra seeds in the garden shack for the winter, and not one would geminate the following spring. I have been going the 'cool/dark' route since.

Do you put them in anything special in the freezer?

Most likely what happened to yours is they got freeze dried due to your - double digit temps LOL For seed storage 24-28F is optimal.

[helomech]

-70? I thought time frooze around -10

[Evolver]

Global Seed Bank in Svalbard. No tin foil here :)

Svalbard Global Seed Vault - regjeringen.no (http://www.regjeringen.no/en/dep/lmd/campain/svalbard-global-seed-vault.html)

[ravensgrove]

Not to be a snit...but seriously, I don't care what your book says...DO NOT FREEZE YOUR SEEDS. Your germination rate will be ridiculously low.

[ladyhk13]

I'm sorry but I have to agree with Raven....freezing most all seeds is very bad for them. I have been told this more often than not by people who are in the biz of growing things so even though there seems to be a difference of opion it is best to keep them in a dark cool dry place.

[Sniper-T]

Not to be a snit...but seriously, I don't care what your book says...DO NOT FREEZE YOUR SEEDS. Your germination rate will be ridiculously low.

Based on my personal experience with allowing them to freeze... I have to accept this as the reason. 40 some odd packets, 0% germination rate. speaks volumes to me!