Weapon thefts

[bacpacker]

I ran across this while reading some news reports today. It's disturbing to me and really makes me wonder what is coming next. What in the world would inspire anyone to hire ex felons and gang bangers to work on a military base as a contractor or soldier.
Folks this is something to keep your eyes open for. If this ever happened it could turn into Lebanon or Lybia really easy. However please don't take this into tin-foil land. This could turn into a serious enough situation to not go there.



Military Weapons in Gangsters' Hands (http://www.military.com/news/article/military-weapons-in-gangsters-hands.html?col=1186032325324)

Gangs are acquiring highpowered, military-grade weapons more frequently, according to the latest National Gang Intelligence Center Report. And FBI and law enforcement officials suggest gang members -- both enlisted and those working at military bases as contract civilians -- may be funneling the firearms to their street-level counterparts.

In late July, 27 AK-47s were stolen from a Fort Irwin warehouse, officials said. Those close to the case, who would speak only under the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the subject, said investigators believe gang members were involved in the theft.



FBI Says Gang Infiltrators Stealing Military Weapons For Sale On U.S. Streets | TheBlaze.com (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/fbi-says-gang-infiltrators-stealing-military-weapons-for-sale-on-u-s-streets/)

The FBI is concerned not only that gangs are infiltrating the military, but gang members are funneling military ordnance to criminal associates on the streets– including high explosive artillery rounds.

The problem, according to Military.com, is that recently the FBI has come across a number of instances in which:

“Gangs are acquiring highpowered, military-grade weapons more frequently, according to the latest National Gang Intelligence Center (NGIC) Report. And FBI and law enforcement officials suggest gang members — both enlisted and those working at military bases as contract civilians — may be funneling the firearms to their street-level counterparts.

So it appears criminal syndicates — that include prison gangs, bikers, and notorious Latin gang MS-13 — are getting their hands on a variety of military-grade weapons including rifles, grenades, body armor, and even artillery rounds, according to the latest NGIC report released.

On two separate occasions thus far in 2011, live artillery rounds have been found in the homes of people affiliated with the military, including one who was a known gang member. These projectiles can be easily converted into improvised explosive devices (IEDs), such as those that have plagued the war efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan.

But even small arms — which are strictly accounted for on base and have their numbers checked multiple times throughout the day — have appeared in the hands of street thugs, or been intercepted during an attempted sale.

In July, for example, 27 AK-47s were stolen from a warehouse at Fort Irwin in California, and sources told military.com that gang members were suspected in that theft. Fort Irwin officials have refused to comment on whether the base hires parolees, though it is also suspected that this may have been common practice, as the army base is in a desolate part of the California desert, and hiring for day-to-day maintenance jobs poses its own challenges.



What do you think?

[Daca102090]

This is just a rehash of fears that were being voiced in the EARLY 1990s. At that time the fear was that street gangs as well as larger crime organizations were grooming members to be able to join the military where they were expected to get as much training in tactics, demolition, guerilla warfare and the like so that they could become trainers for the gangs/group when they left the military.

Is it going on? Probably.
Is this something new? hardly. Just getting more press now.

[TroubleShooter]

About two years ago , news run an article about gang members joining military and returning home to train other members...........This was after an armed robbery in which the shooter was using the technique "cutting the pie" to get away...was captured on video tape..



Are Gang Members Using Military Training? - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-18563_162-3108597.html)



But there was an incident in which a disturbed Marine used his training to kill two policemen. In January, 2005, the Marine, who police say was associated with the Norteno street gang, shot to death two policeman outside a convenience store in Ceres, California.

Surveillance video shows him using a technique marines call "cutting the pie" – instead of cowering, he boldly attacks

[bacpacker]

My point exactly. The gangs have spent time getting people inside. It's now showing up in the CBS report above and with the weapons thefts to be used for who knows what. You can be sure that it will be for nothing good.

For folks like us though I think it just points out the fact we need to keep our eyes and ears open to gather any intel we can get. Knowledge is never a bad thing.

[eagle326]

My point exactly. The gangs have spent time getting people inside. It's now showing up in the CBS report above and with the weapons thefts to be used for who knows what. You can be sure that it will be for nothing good.

For folks like us though I think it just points out the fact we need to keep our eyes and ears open to gather any intel we can get. Knowledge is never a bad thing.


He who fails to prepare
Prepares to fail

[TroubleShooter]

Sometimes we have no control, except to lock our own world around us down......

Example: Last night my son , returns from going to store on his bicycle (he is 14).................

Dad, I cannot wait until I can carry a gun.

Why?

He says I am walking dead, I just got shot.....

Huh?

The bag he was carrying broke and all his stuff hits the ground, he picks it up , turns and looks toward a car that was following him down the alley....... Bang.

He said, I could do nothing but run..........That makes me so mad. If it was a real gun, Iam shot.........

I asked him , did it have a orange tip?

No, all I seen was a guy put a gun out the window and then sparks...........Then they drove off..

I said, that's why I tell you to keep your head on swivel.

He says................ I knew they was there, they followed me from store, I was watching them ............Then my bag broke and the goof shot me when I looked up.

I asked him if the sparks came from the end of gun...............He says the sparks lit up the guy's hand, he thinks it was toy, but did not waste anytime getting home..


The sad part about it...........he is aware, he can shoot, he can fight.............But he would be dead if the gun was real.

He had me asked if I wanted anything from the store...............I said hang on, I will walk with you. He said, he was riding his bike, so I did not go................It could have been a disaster had they done the same thing while we were walking back together....


What can we do...........?

[izzyscout21]

I was aware of the gang problem while I was in. Truth is, it's becoming quite the problem. Members keep it as low profile as possible. I never saw anyone face any sort of disciplinary action over thier chosen affiliations. I did notice that the problem didn't seem to be as prevalent in the Infantry as it was in other branches of the Army.The fact that over the past couple years, the bangers have found ways to aquire military harware is disturbing.I'm not a big believer in the whole roving gangs, gun and run, and Mad MAx scenarios and such, but if you happen to live in or near a city, the chances of running into well armed thugs is quite real. Add to that the fact that some of them are indeed trained.It all goes to prove that we can't take anything for granted.This is part of the reason I choose to add armor to my preps. I think it's a vital piece of gear, especially having some sort of rifle protection. You never know what kind of hardware you MIGHT incounter IF you encounter it. In my experience, the bad guys always have to seem some nice hardware. I'm sure some of our LE guys here on the forum can attest to that.

[realist]

Something about stealing AK-47s from the military sounds fishy to me. M-16s or M-4s maybe........

[izzyscout21]

Something about stealing AK-47s from the military sounds fishy to me. M-16s or M-4s maybe........

Fort Irwin and several other laarge training facilities have AK's, PKMs, RPDs, Dragunovs, and a whole host of other comblock weapons. They are used for training. OPFOR uses them to train against our forces. They are also used for foreign weapons familiarization.

I remember we even had some in our arms room when I was in basic training at Fort Benning.

It's actually more common than you would think.

[Optimist]

Sometimes we have no control, except to lock our own world around us down......

Example: Last night my son , returns from going to store on his bicycle (he is 14).................

Dad, I cannot wait until I can carry a gun.

Why?

He says I am walking dead, I just got shot.....

Huh?

The bag he was carrying broke and all his stuff hits the ground, he picks it up , turns and looks toward a car that was following him down the alley....... Bang.

He said, I could do nothing but run..........That makes me so mad. If it was a real gun, Iam shot.........

I asked him , did it have a orange tip?

No, all I seen was a guy put a gun out the window and then sparks...........Then they drove off..

I said, that's why I tell you to keep your head on swivel.

He says................ I knew they was there, they followed me from store, I was watching them ............Then my bag broke and the goof shot me when I looked up.

I asked him if the sparks came from the end of gun...............He says the sparks lit up the guy's hand, he thinks it was toy, but did not waste anytime getting home..


The sad part about it...........he is aware, he can shoot, he can fight.............But he would be dead if the gun was real.

He had me asked if I wanted anything from the store...............I said hang on, I will walk with you. He said, he was riding his bike, so I did not go................It could have been a disaster had they done the same thing while we were walking back together....


What can we do...........?

Get trained, get armed, network up with the rest of your neighborhood, and get ready to make it expensive when the times call for it. That's about all we can do.... Oh, and get that young man a cell phone for his own use when he's out and about. Being able to call in assistance when you're doing the back-alley boogie is a very nice feeling, and it might keep him from getting mistaken for a fleeing bad guy....

[sidewinder]

Here's a news flash...Fast & Furious....our government hands out these guns like candy to every Tom, Dick & Chico.

It's a ploy to tighten gun laws for law abiding citizens...nothing more....liberal agenda....commie approved.

[Sniper-T]

^ Really???

Sounds interesting in a "Stir the pot" kind of way, but do you have anything to back up this claim??

[work in progress]

^ Really???

Sounds interesting in a "Stir the pot" kind of way, but do you have anything to back up this claim??

Who's stirring the pot there Sniper? C'mon man! I need more than one cup of coffee before I can fold my tin foil hat correctly. Geez.

[The Stig]

Here's a news flash...Fast & Furious....our government hands out these guns like candy to every Tom, Dick & Chico.

It's a ploy to tighten gun laws for law abiding citizens...nothing more....liberal agenda....commie approved.


^ Really???

Sounds interesting in a "Stir the pot" kind of way, but do you have anything to back up this claim??

While it may sound tinfoil sidewinder is correct.

The BATFE is embroiled in a scandal whereby they encouraged gun dealers near the Mexican border to approve big quantities of straw (read: illegal) purchases. Their master-plan was to allow the guns to make their way across the boarder, track them and then breakup the gun running networks/cartels.

No way that can go horribly wrong could it (pro-tip: read that with a heavily sarcastic tone).....

....until a firearm linked to the program was used to kill a Border Patrol agent. Now the whole mess is coming to light including how the FFL holders (ie the stores) were all screaming saying they didn't want to approve the sales and begging for guidance, The Attorney General, Mr Holder, denying knowledge of the program despite being briefed on it, and memos claiming this could be part of a method to 'encourage' introduction of tougher legislation to fight "gun crimes".

That's the short version so I might not have all the details exactly right but that's the general gist of it.

There's a lot of news about this at legit news sites, I encourage those interested to do the research and check out the facts.

As far as the political angles and utter tinfoil moonbattery of the whole mess......that can be discussed elsewhere.

[Sniper-T]

^
Thanks Stig.

That's the answer I was looking for!

:)

WIP, I am in a different Country than you guys, We don't get that kind of information up here, so unless I start searching the net for obscure things like that, I just don't know. I didn't mean to be rude (and sorry if you took it that way Sidewinder); But it did sound 'out-there' and I was asking if there was more info to back it.

Maybe I should have had another cup of coffee first too

:o

[The Stig]

^
Thanks Stig.

That's the answer I was looking for!


No worries....figured that the news of the mess hadn't filtered it's way into the great white north yet.

[work in progress]

Where I work we interact with guys in different levels of government. Most of these issues are passed on to me by them because they know I try to keep tabs on it. I guess I'm lucky that way - I take that for granted. It's good to feel like you're around a group of people who hear this stuff and can just shake their heads, knowing that if the consequences finally come around- they'll be ready to deal with it. Since it's obscure all the way up there - here's a little more for you. It's from mid-January and it's just another example, although maybe not gang-related, of what's going on down here.

(CNN) -- About 100 soldiers at a large military base in Washington state were allowed to return home Tuesday evening while the Army continues to investigate the theft of "sensitive" and valuable "military-grade" equipment.

"The soldiers were detained due to the investigation of a theft of weapon accessories worth about $600,000," a statement from Joint Base Lewis-McChord said.

On Monday, Maj. Chris Ophardt, a spokesman for the U.S. Army's I Corps that is headquartered at the base and includes the affected unit, said members of the Army Criminal Investigation Command are at the base trying to find out who is responsible for the missing items

"Hundreds of items" are missing from a vault that is inside a building on the base, the spokesman said. They include things such as scopes and night-vision goggles but no guns or ammunition.

"There are no weapons, and there's no danger to the public," Ophardt said.

After learning of the thefts, the Army decided on January 4 to put members of the Army's 4th Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division on lockdown, preventing soldiers from making phone calls or leaving the unit's barracks or unit office.

The unit has been home from Iraq since September 2010.

These measures were relaxed somewhat on Saturday, with some supervised visits allowed on a case-by-case basis to deal with personal issues and permission granted to eat at the base's dining facility. Division members, who live either on or off the base, still must sleep at the barracks.

Military officials did their monthly inventory of the vault in December. They then did another after the holiday vacation and determined that "large amounts" of items were missing -- "immediately" precipitating the lockdown, said Ophardt.

A $10,000 reward has been offered by the Army in the case.

It has not been determined whether the missing items were stored properly or if someone was able to get into a properly locked vault and made off with the equipment.

The missing items could all "be bought on the civilian market, just one or two generations older," the spokesman said. He added that they have limited use to the public, given the challenges in knowing how to use them and having the right kind of weapon to attach them to.

Hundreds of items. I guess it could have been as little as a box of stuff or as much as a truck bed full. Not sure if they're giving enough credit to the public here, seeing as how the "right kind" of weapons might just be available somehow as well. maybe. hope not.

[ladyhk13]

Ok people don't get your panties in a wad here but has any of them thought of how many Muslims are now in our Military with free rein due to us being so PC and maybe have taken these items to give out to their cells in the U.S. in plans of terror attacks on our soil?

[bacpacker]

I have no doubt that is happening as we speak. No telling how long it's been going on.