Revamped my 1st and 2nd line fighting gear

[izzyscout21]

So I went back and did a little shakedown and revamp of my fighting load. I had way too much stuff that I really didn't need, so I condensed and re-prioritized my gear. SInce I'm already at my BOL, I'm not really focused on sustainment/ 3rd line gear

for my 1st and second line gear I actually added one sublayer. I took the holster from the battle belt and put it back on my leg. That way, I can drop EVERYTHING and still keep the handgun. I also retained the 3 mag hip panel on the left leg for an extra 3 mags. I kept this simply because I only run 3 mags on the plate carrier.

Next most important thing I did was add coms to both the belt and Plate carrier. Smaller radio on my belt is UHF band for team/ around the BOL coms. Since it is UHF band, this radio has more of an advantage in urban areas as well.
The second radio attached to the PC is VHF band and is primarily for longer range communication. It is programmed for HAM freqs as well as MURS. It also has the handy dandy freqs of NOAA weather.

Heres the breakdown:

On my person:
SERPA dropleg platform for my Desert Warrior 1911
Blackhawk 3 mag hip panel (not shown, I'll get a pic up)

Battle Belt:

VTAC Brokos battle belt
VTAC Cobra inner belt
ATS lo-pro suspenders
2 1911 mags in Blade-tec pouch
AR Mag in 5.11/ VTAC pouch
Motorola Radius P110 Radio/ mic (local and team coms, throat mic on the way)
GP pouch with extra batteries for radios and lights, 50 extra .45 rounds, and 1 day of MREs
Tactical Tailor Nalgene pouch and Nalgene bottle
Surefire G3
Cuda CQB-1 combat knife
GPS in Condor Pouch


Plate Carrier:

Level 4 SAPI plates

Front:
Tactical Tailor 3 mag pouch for AR
Tac Tailor Magna Mag 3 cell pistol pouch
HSGI bleeder kit (CAT, quick clot, Izzy bandage, shears)
Admin pouch with map tool and map of AO

Back:

TT kangaroo hydration pouch
TT med pouch filled with survival gear (firestarters, strobe, batteries, chem lights, water purification, ETC)
Motorola Saber 2 Radio for long range coms ( just ordered a hand mic)
ADS GP pouch (more survival gear and MRE's)

Brings me to a total of 8 AR mags (3 on PC, 3 on hip, 1 on belt, 1 in gun) 240 rounds total
6 1911 mags (3 on PC, 2 on belt, 1 in gun) 48 rounds total
This setup has alloowed me to streamline my gear and believe it or not, doesn't weigh a ton.

questions or comments?

http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx288/2crgrunt/DSCF4474.jpg

[ak474u]

I like it, I was looking at the battle belts the other day, and can see more use with modern pouches (MOLLE) than trying to adapt to the old fashioned, yet more modern with fastex buckles LBE pistol belt. Do you have enough weight on the belt to need the attachment straps to the plate carrier like the old fashioned vests attached to pistol belts?

[izzyscout21]

the BIG advantage to the Brokos belt is that you can use molle and regular belt mounted pouches. The molle on the belt is made into 2 rows by 2 rows, that way if you want to add a belt mounted pouch, you just skip one panel of molle and thread the belt back under the next panel.

[mitunnelrat]

Nice! I'm going to have to remember this.

Have I ever mentioned I wish you were about 700 miles closer to me? lol

[izzyscout21]

Nice! I'm going to have to remember this.

Have I ever mentioned I wish you were about 700 miles closer to me? lol

no, but you have now.

come down and visit some time..... or if it ever gets bad enough, come down and join the group! :)

[mitunnelrat]

Cool! I'll have to do one or the other this year ;)

I really do like how you're set up there, and I definitely believe you on the weight. I don't have the comms setup you, do but my FLC only weighs 11-16 pounds (depending on how full my Camelbak is) without it.

My belt is the heavier of the two at 21 pounds, but then its also the base of my bug out gear vs. being a dedicated fighting component. I do like the idea of the pistol holster as a subload though. I never thought of doing that.

All told I'm at 9 rifle mags (six on the vest, 2 on the belt, 1 in the rifle), 252 rounds since I'm at 28 per mag. I was having too many feed issues to go with full loads. I also have the HSGI bleeder kit, set up as a BOK, and though its a moot point right now, I can clip my motorola FRS radio alongside my left most mag pouch if I ever get teamed up and can use it. I'll be interested in seeing that hip panel though. I want to upgrade to an actual chest rig or PC, but for now - and once/ if I get to radios like yours - the MBITR pouch would require removing one of my mag pouches.

[izzyscout21]

Thanks, MTR. Give me a PM. I can get more radios

Hip pouch will be up in a sec

[izzyscout21]

Cool! I'll have to do one or the other this year ;)

I'll be interested in seeing that hip panel though. I want to upgrade to an actual chest rig or PC, but for now - and once/ if I get to radios like yours - the MBITR pouch would require removing one of my mag pouches.

Hip pouch. Not a drop-leg, but not quite a belt pouch either. It's somewhere in between

http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx288/2crgrunt/DSCF4478.jpg

[mitunnelrat]

Interesting. I'm guessing it sits pretty close underneath your battle belt?

[izzyscout21]

^^yes it does. they aren't *fast* to get to per se, but if I'm feeding from that setup, I prolly have time to do so.

[izzyscout21]

here's the info on the radios:

http://www.shtfready.com/communications/heres-my-new-com-setup-1180.html#post17321

[GunnerMax]

Izzy, your setup makes me drool. Mine will be there soon. But its hard to keep a good setup when I use some of the gear I am issued (flak and kevlar) in my setup. But, my base is a Condor Battle Belt with suspenders for them. A Brokos battle belt is out of my budget at the moment :)

[izzyscout21]

Thanks, Gunner. If you ever have any q's, shoot me a pm.

[GunnerMax]

izzy, why do you have 3 radios? And I am surprised that I didnt see more Kydex :)

[izzyscout21]

izzy, why do you have 3 radios? And I am surprised that I didnt see more Kydex :)

it's only 2 radios: the Radius P110 and (1) Saber 2.

[Gunfixr]

I've been thinking about a battle belt. I've always run a standard old style GI web belt, the type with the brass pin and socket buckle.
I just cannot trust the new plastic buckles, and I still hear of them breaking often enough not to want one.
I played with vests for awhile, but am working back towards the belt with suspenders.
I have a plate carrier and plates.
I ran a thigh rig for awhile, but got away from that as well. It keeps hitting everything, and when you crawl, it fills up with dirt. Now I just run a GI style flap holster. I reckon if I were doing some sort of house to house, I might run the thigh rig, since it's fast.

[Optimist]

Belt and suspenders works for me.... Insofar as weaponry goes, I stick with the Mauser scout rifle in 8x57, and a Colt OP in a Chapman rig at about the place where the right hand suspender band fastens to the britches. Not really expecting to have to repel human wave attacks with my patrol gear. There's other tools on the place to handle that set of eventualities.

[izzyscout21]

I seem to be on a roll this week, to I decided to go aead and set up my wife's gear.
I dont see her needing to be able to do direct action stuff, so I toned her loadout down a little.

here's the setup:

Medium IOTV
IFAK
6 M-1 Carbine mags
1 spare pistol mag
Sig P-250
1 pop flare
1 Gerber River SHorty knife
Motorola Saber Radio on back

http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx288/2crgrunt/DSCF4516.jpg
http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx288/2crgrunt/DSCF4517.jpg

[The Stig]

I seem to be on a roll this week, to I decided to go aead and set up my wife's gear.
I dont see her needing to be able to do direct action stuff, so I toned her loadout down a little.

here's the setup:

Medium IOTV
IFAK
6 M-1 Carbine mags
1 spare pistol mag
Sig P-250
1 pop flare
1 Gerber River SHorty knife
Motorola Saber Radio on back

http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx288/2crgrunt/DSCF4516.jpg
http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx288/2crgrunt/DSCF4517.jpg

I assume she's tried this on and it fits, etc?

How much does that weigh with the mags and everything in it?

[izzyscout21]

Yeah, she's tried it on and it fits well. I dont know about the total weight yet, I dont have enough carbine mags to load it up yet.

It will be a little lighter than normal. She's got small plates in it and has opted to go without the soft armor.

I know that when I loaded it with ar mags, it weighed less than my plate carrier. I'll have to get a good weight for it and post it up.

[ladyhk13]

I was just scrolling down to the last post so I could ask you what your were doing for your wife and POOF! There is was! Thank you very much! We don't get a lot for what the women are being outfitted with here so I am curious what the other gals are doing.

[izzyscout21]

no problem. one of these days when i get a bathroom scale, I'll weigh it.

I'm trying to keep hers light, hence no soft armor and extraneous stuff. I may even remove the flare.

[ladyhk13]

I'll have to pull mine out and compare to see what DH has put on it. Since it's winter I honestly don't even shoot. I know he adds stuff every once in a while. I think he bought me a level 4 not long ago, he got me one last year that was designed differently but the damn thing was so heavy that it would have been impossible to add anything to it. Not to mention it was too big (I need XS or S sizes). Really need to fit them better so I can actually wear them and not kill myself.

[izzyscout21]

^^ LAdy, you're giving me an idea.............

[ladyhk13]

Really?What's that????

[izzyscout21]

^^

Working on it now.

[captainhippy]

Definitely something to think about. I only keep 4 AR Pmags / 2 22lr conversion mags. I may need to up that number.

[mitunnelrat]

Sometimes I wish I could make up my mind, lol. Here's my 2nd line in what should be its base configuration
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn165/mitunnelrat/001-7.jpg
6 AR mags on the left (my offhand) side, and from the center to right I have my BOK w/ attached TQ pouch, comms, and a grenade pouch retasked to hold a spare battery. Incidentally, izzy's little hacksaw knife came in yesterday, and it fits in beautifully behind the TQ pouch
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn165/mitunnelrat/002-9.jpg

I mentioned before that I used some salvaged hardware to attach a hydration carrier to my FLC, so I took a couple of pics for that too. I had a dedicated carrier on there before, but I realized my Ambush would add a little more versatility, so I'm using it now.
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn165/mitunnelrat/003-9.jpg
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn165/mitunnelrat/004-8.jpg
I cut slots in the triglides(?) to face them the correct direction, the rest is probably pretty well self-explanatory. I got the hardware and straps from a blown pack, in case you missed it before and were wondering.

The final component of my vest is the addition of a protective map case. It fit perfectly
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn165/mitunnelrat/005-7.jpg

I have a 1"x1" first aid patch I need to sew onto the BOK for quick identification. That's my only forseeable change for now, excepting the need to develop and fill the Ambush. The setup seems to be holding ok, and doesn't interfere with shouldering my rifle, but I still have to see if that holds true under prolonged movement and use. If not, I'll try actually sewing the straps and try again, lol. I've been too lazy to do it thus far.

Something else I noticed and liked is what the new position for the pouches does for me. I've been making a conscious effort lately to tuck my left elbow in tighter to my body when standing to fire, and the top of the mag pouch lines up perfectly as a platform for it. My offhand feels much more stable, and I think I'll be utilizing more bone structure than muscle to support my rifle. Does that make sense, or should I get to a carbine class post haste (I need to anyway) to unfuck myself?

[izzyscout21]

that little knife looks like it belongs there

[mitunnelrat]

Yes it does. And yes, it does ;) lol

I edited and added right about the time you were replying. You're one who could tell me if I'm moving the right direction on my shooting stance or not, so I figured I'd mention that.

[izzyscout21]

Here's an update:

I shifted a few things around and here is my final configuration. I'm quite happy with it. It works well, and simplifies my kit quite a bit.
http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx288/2crgrunt/72%20hr/DSCF4630.jpg

I dropped the radio and the nalgene off the 1st line. Truth be told, The water was heavy, and I dont think I need a second radio. The skinny condor poch went bye-bye as well.

In it's place I added an HSGI 2quart/ General purpose pouch. Man let me tell you all, this pouch is the cat's meow. It's designed to fit a 2 quart canteen, but ti does not have the cutout in the upper corner for the spout.


http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx288/2crgrunt/72%20hr/DSCF4632.jpg


Translation: I can carry my stuff without worrying it will fall out. This pouch contains my survival kit (firestarters, Lunchbox Wire saw, etc...) fome food, extra batteries, extra chemlights, socks, etc. Crammed 2 smoke grenades in there as well. The MOLLE webbing on the pouch lends well to adding other small pouches if need be. My multitool will go on in very short order.

I finally got a holster for my Sig 226 Elite, so I replaced the 1911 in favor of the eveil Hi-cap autoloader. The holster is a Safariland 6004. Mag pouches were also in order, so I went with a Diamondback Tactical quad mag pouch.

http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx288/2crgrunt/72%20hr/DSCF4634.jpg
http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx288/2crgrunt/72%20hr/DSCF4633.jpg


I added the green pouch up front for my Silva compass.

This setup gives me all my survival gear and first line combat gear all in one. Love it.

[izzyscout21]

When I add the plate carrier, the ammo loadout is this:

5 AR Mags (150 rounds) (1 on belt, 3 on plate carrier, 1 in gun). If I need to add ammo, I add my hip panel as pictured, bringing me up to 240 rounds/ 8 mags.

8 pistol mags....... (3 on armor, 4 on belt, 1 in gun) total handgun ammo..wait for it........... 161 rounds of 9mm. Cool, right? These are 20 rounders, btw.

Couple it all together, and my layered setup looks something like this:


Ignore the fat kid.......


http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx288/2crgrunt/72%20hr/DSCF4638.jpg
http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx288/2crgrunt/72%20hr/DSCF4640.jpg
http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx288/2crgrunt/72%20hr/DSCF4642.jpg




This system is very similar to what I used on deployment. Even with the minimal amount of food (and scrounging water and treating it), I can operate with this setup for about 3 days. I might be a little hungry, but calorie content of the food bars is enough to keep me going. I know enough to tell the difference between needing the food and wanting the food.

Even with the amount of gear I am carrying, the package is still fairly compact, doesn't weigh as much as you think, and does not sacrifice mobility:

http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx288/2crgrunt/72%20hr/DSCF4641.jpg

I hope this post helps all of you take a good look at your setups. Comments? Questions? Discuss.

Izzy

[bacpacker]

Nice set up Izzy. Looks like you got most all the bases covered. Along with the capability to add to or take away as needed. I'd call it a win.
Damn that rifle is short!

[izzyscout21]

Just wanted to show you guys how much crap you can fit in the HSGI pouch on the back of my belt:

http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx288/2crgrunt/72%20hr/HSGI%20pouch/DSCF4928.jpg
http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx288/2crgrunt/72%20hr/HSGI%20pouch/DSCF4929.jpg

http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx288/2crgrunt/72%20hr/HSGI%20pouch/DSCF4930.jpg
http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx288/2crgrunt/72%20hr/HSGI%20pouch/DSCF4931.jpg
http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx288/2crgrunt/72%20hr/HSGI%20pouch/DSCF4932.jpg

[izzyscout21]

http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx288/2crgrunt/72%20hr/HSGI%20pouch/DSCF4934.jpg
http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx288/2crgrunt/72%20hr/HSGI%20pouch/DSCF4935.jpg
http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx288/2crgrunt/72%20hr/HSGI%20pouch/DSCF4937.jpg
http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx288/2crgrunt/72%20hr/HSGI%20pouch/DSCF4938.jpg
http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx288/2crgrunt/72%20hr/HSGI%20pouch/DSCF4939.jpg

[mitunnelrat]

My turn again! And this time I made some sweeping changes. The first came from a knowledgeable friend recommending I put my ‘hawk on my 1st line, rather than on my 2nd. That conversation -unwittingly on his end- spawned a whole slew of changes that relate more to theory than practice. What I mean by that, is I now view my battle belt in two ways. Its not only my “1st line”, it is also my “base line”. That shift in terminology redefined what my belt does, and how it does it.

The other major change was also theory based. It harkens to the expression, “the mission drives the gear”. I’m not going to lie, I enjoy keeping up with the latest and greatest gear employed by our military, but… I need to remember I don’t have the same mission, nor do I have the support structure or level of gear they do.

Having a row of pouches lined up across my chest might look pretty cool, but it does me little good in my current position. I’m much better off shifting those pouches to my sides so I can crawl and more effectively fight from the prone position. The front of my vest is now slick, and I eliminated the camelbak under the same logic for my back. Its contents are now in my EOD utility bag. I have mag pouches on my weak (left) side.
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn165/mitunnelrat/007-6.jpg
The right side is my dump pouch and grenades.
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn165/mitunnelrat/011-6.jpg
I’m kidding. I only have one grenade… and it’s a fake! Note the blue “spoon” in the pic above, and the hole drilled through it in the next pic.
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn165/mitunnelrat/006-8.jpg

So, reality is the right side of my vest is the dump pouch and grenade POUCHES. Only the pouches, but at least they’re full of ammo. 60 rounds each to be exact. J
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn165/mitunnelrat/016-4.jpg
That’s another thing that ties into the fact I lack the infrastructure of the military. I am my own resupply. I therefore find it prudent to keep on me what I can. One more grenade pouch and I’ll be happy. The vest weighs 13.5 pounds now (I have loose stripper clips of ammo in a interior vest pocket). I’m estimating an end weight of 13.75 pounds, with a total round count of 348.

That sounds like a lot. Ok, it is a lot…. But, its also 8.25 pounds that won’t be weighing down a pack on my back, and 180 rounds I won’t lose if I ever have to drop that pack to increase mobility. And none of it impeding movement as it now sits.

[mitunnelrat]

And with that, I’m back to what I led with - my war belt> Its not so much a “1st line” as a “base line.” I call it that because I’ve consolidated and configured my gear to meet 3 objectives - moving, shooting, and communicating - from a single platform, whereas before I had it distributed between the 1st and 2nd lines.
Now, I have the ability to move. You’ll see my GHB (more correctly a small BOB in its own right) riding as a butt pack for E&E purposes (again if I have to jettison my main pack.) Moving, to me, means meeting the requirements of food, water, and shelter, as well as meeting sanitation/ hygiene and medical needs. The butt pack provides for all of that, but you’ll also see my BOK and a canteen on my right hip. I have a lensatic compass in one of the small pockets of the canteen pouch as well In the same vein, albeit more literal, I left the shoulder strap on the “butt” pack so it may act as a drag line or be used as intended. I’ve got a pic with a carabiner to illustrate the drag line method.
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn165/mitunnelrat/003-12.jpg
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn165/mitunnelrat/005-11.jpg
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn165/mitunnelrat/009-5.jpg
Also on the right side you’ll see my pistol in a drop leg, which is my lead in to the belt fulfilling the “shooting“ objective. Related to that role, in general, is “fighting”. So you’ll also see me ‘hawk on the right. I did a “custom” hack job to get it mounted. The blade is sandwiched between the two parts of a Velcro tear-away panel to help hold/ protect it, and to protect my klutzy ass from running my wrist along it as I draw my pistol.
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn165/mitunnelrat/013-5.jpg
The pouch immediately to the rear of that is a pistol mag pouch I cut and sewed Velcro “flaps” into. To date, it holds securely. I’ve already identified improvements and revisions it needs, but its still currently effective. As its set up I can actually deploy the ‘hawk as fast as I can the bayonet (a.k.a. BFK) that rides on the left side of the belt. As an aside, since I‘m mentioning knives, I also have izzy ‘s hacksaw knife mounted on the belt now as well. Its still behind my TQ pouch, as it was on the vest.

[mitunnelrat]

To be cont.

The bayonet actually meets two objectives. It was obviously developed as a weapon, but it also has a wire cutter built in, so it works with “move”, as well. (Multipurpose is good, imo.) I have two pistol mags mounted in front of it, and 2 rifle mags mounted behind it. I stacked the rifle mag pouches to make room for my Saber radio, which is the “communicate“ part of the equation.
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn165/mitunnelrat/006-9.jpg

And that’s where I’m at. I have a 1st line, 2nd line, and a 3rd line coming in at a combined weight of 44 pounds. When I factor in my rifle and head pro (helmet, ear muffs, and goggles) I come in at a total weight of 54.5 pounds. As set up it is more than adequate for meeting my local BO needs.

INCH scenarios, however, are another story, and are my next priority. That’s where main packs come in. For now though, I’m comfortable knowing I can attach my EOD Utility Bag to my war belt, and be covered.

[bacpacker]

Really nice work MTR. A place for everything and everything in it's place.

[Kutter-0311]

http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx288/2crgrunt/72%20hr/DSCF4642.jpg

Comments? Questions? Discuss.

Izzy

Yay! My first Post! And on one of Izzy's threads! (I found the site with Izzy's link on ZS)

How easy is it for you to get to that TT medic pouch? Can you pop it off the rear, or do you have to remove your plate carrier to treat injuries? If I missed this earlier, I'm sorry, I'll admit I skimmed over some text, while ogling the pics.

Also, what kind of throat mic did you order? I'm curious to see how it interacts with your single-point sling. When I get radios, I'll dig out my throat mic and see if it still works. It's been lost in.. my... garage(?) for at least 6 years now.


Something else I noticed and liked is what the new position for the pouches does for me. I've been making a conscious effort lately to tuck my left elbow in tighter to my body when standing to fire, and the top of the mag pouch lines up perfectly as a platform for it. My offhand feels much more stable, and I think I'll be utilizing more bone structure than muscle to support my rifle. Does that make sense, or should I get to a carbine class post haste (I need to anyway) to unfuck myself?

MTR, what kind of sling do you run? I was taught to use the sling as pictured here:
(BTW, not me, someone far taller and thinner than myself LOL)
http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/5775/53863639932678008712415.jpg

If you're using a modern 'sliding' 2-point sling like the VCAS, VTAC, or Ares(seen above), the sling should ideally start at the top-outside of your stock, run over your shoulder, across your back, under the armpit of the support arm, and out to the front of the rifle. The support hand should thread itself between the sling and rifle to grasp the foregrip, allowing the elbow to 'chicken-wing' the sling and add tension to support a stable firing position.

My rifles have 1.25" unpadded VCAS slings. I like using a mash hook (http://www.google.com/#q=mash+hook&hl=en&prmd=imvns&source=lnms&tbm=shop&psj=1&ei=QmN_T661MIm09QS_4YnoBw&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=6&ved=0CBwQ_AUoBQ&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=d1cb6253d6261c3c&biw=1024&bih=506) on the front, far more secure than the HK clip. HK clips have dropped my rifle. Others have used BFG wire thingies with good results. Also, you may want to move the rear sling point to a more useful spot. I had to implant a Noveske QD Socket (http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=fm-qd&cat=165&page=1&search=&since=&status=&title=) to accomplish this on my SGL21's, as seen below(with someone else shooting my rifle).

http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae351/kutter_0311/AKslingmagchange-a.jpg
^Here the sling supports the rifle during a mag change. The rifle stays solidly in the shoulder, held easily by one hand. The added stability lets you be very forceful, yet accurate and fast, so you don't flub insertion and get the mag jammed in the rifle wrong.

[mitunnelrat]

I'm using a single point right now. It seems like a good idea at the time, but in reality its more of a pain in the ass than it is uesful. Getting a VTAC or VCAS is on my "to-do" list, but its one of those items that I seem to overlook. Until the next time I pick up my rifle, anyway.

Welcome to the forum, Kutter, and thank you for the pic and description of how to use them. Definitely something I didn't know.

[izzyscout21]

Yay! My first Post! And on one of Izzy's threads! (I found the site with Izzy's link on ZS)

How easy is it for you to get to that TT medic pouch? Can you pop it off the rear, or do you have to remove your plate carrier to treat injuries? If I missed this earlier, I'm sorry, I'll admit I skimmed over some text, while ogling the pics.

Also, what kind of throat mic did you order? I'm curious to see how it interacts with your single-point sling. When I get radios, I'll dig out my throat mic and see if it still works. It's been lost in.. my... garage(?) for at least 6 years now.




Kutter, glad you made it to the forum! Welcome. While we're at it, tell your friends about us.

The TT med pouch on the back doesn't hold med supplies. It actually hold batteries, chem lights, strobe, water tabs, triox and other various survival gear. While I can reach it, most of the things that it hold are such that I can take the carrier off and access them when time allows or have a buddy grab them if under stress/ cover.
My bleeder kit is actually on the front of my PC.

I"ll have to check what the brand of my throat mic is. OEM throat mics for Sabers are SUPERRETARD expensive, so I think its aftermarket.My sling doesn't interfere with it in any way, but I prefer my hand mic for most things.


Again, welcome. glad you're here.

[Kutter-0311]

Those TT medic pouches make damn handy Large GP pouches, that was what I first did with mine. I eventually revamped my IFAK system and filled all 4 of them into fairly uniform trauma kits. 2 are for the cars, 1 is for the house, and the last was for my lightfighter ruck, until I lent it to our midwife for her road trip to TX. I doubt she used it, but she did get in 2 severe car accidents on the trip, so I'm damn glad I sent it with her. I replaced the MALICE clips with Grimlocs for a QR, and put a couple of the ITW plastic 'biners on the metal headrest struts for the Grimlocs to lock onto, so they hang behind the driver's seat. Even if you're pinned in place, you can reach back and free them as long as you've got one good arm.

MTR, I ran $5 G3 slings on EVERYTHING for a long time. They were just carrying straps, but they worked, and they didn't rack me in the nuts when I transitioned to pistol like I saw other guys with single-points suffer. I took a carbine class last May, and the gear list required me to upgrade to a VTAC or VCAS. I chose the VCAS because it doesn't have any floppy tails or pull-releases, it just has a stout pull tab that moves the slider to make it longer or shorter. I also went with the UNpadded because they have a wider range of adjustment, and it ain't belt-fed, just a rifle. If you need a padded sling on your carbine, you've either got too much BS on your rails, or you just need to harden the fuck up. VTAC slings lock in to the length you set them at more firmly than VCAS, so if you want a solid setting for firm tension and better accuracy, go that way, but know that it will take a bit more training to get used to what you have to pull to do things. It just isn't as simple and fast as the VCAS. Since I run an AK, simple and fast is what goes well with my rifle.

[mitunnelrat]

Well. I guess that settles that decision then, doesn't it? LOL
Simple and fast works well with most anything, imo, and I'd hate to be seen as a candy ass for running a padded sling on a 7.5 pound rifle ;)

[Kutter-0311]

MTR, 7.5lbs is a good weight for a rifle. Is that bare? empty? loaded? with light and optic?

I should really weigh my SGL's, I have no idea what they weigh. So far they are bone stock, save my rear sling point mod and VCAS, and I started painting one of them. When I have a budget, I'd like to add night sights, but priority goes to ultimak/AP Micro/light, and maybe ACE folder.

[mitunnelrat]

That's loaded, pretty close to bare. I've only added one rail, and I put an AFG on it. That's it so far. Eventually I'll get an offset mount for my Surefire 6P, but I don't plan on doing anything else with it. I only need it to hold me over until I can buy a new one of better manufacture.

[mitunnelrat]

I should probably note that's not counting the Magpul MOE stock and enhanced trigger guard I used to replace the originals

[rentprop1]

Well. I guess that settles that decision then, doesn't it? LOL
Simple and fast works well with most anything, imo, and I'd hate to be seen as a candy ass for running a padded sling on a 7.5 pound rifle ;)

I've seen guy without padded slings that kept messing with it all day at a carbine class, seems like the smarter guys knew to have one, now for an hour or so and the range, but all day, like at a class or SHTF.... I think you may want it ...YMMV

[Kutter-0311]

I've seen guy without padded slings that kept messing with it all day at a carbine class

I know a lot of guys who need to just spend more time with a rifle on.

Most civs never spend enough time with their rifles to establish the level of comfort they should have. Honestly, neither do most military personel. A 1.25" sling should be plenty wide to be comfortable for you, if you're comfortable with it. Maybe my view is skewwed, the VCAS's on my rifle are made of pretty thick, stiff nylon, and it doesn't readily twist like the Ares and VTAC seam to do.

[mitunnelrat]

I took another look at the EAG Carbine last night. Its package includes a padded sling, so you may be on to something there, but...

I'm still more likely to go with it being unpadded, and for a reason more relevant to this thread: It needs to integrate well with the rest of my gear.

I'm gonna make an EWAG that a padded sling will be more likely to affect my pack's fit/ ride than an unpadded sling will. Maybe even enough to de-stabilize it to some degree. If that's so, I'd rather deal with an 8 pound object I can unsling and hand carry if needed than I would a 40 pound object that has to stay as it sits

[Kutter-0311]

And that's why my chest rig is also wholly unpadded, MTR. Actually, I'd take a padded sling before a padded chest rig. A rifle sling should be worn over your ruck straps, so it can move freely. A chest rig should be run under your ruck straps though, and unpadded unless it carries armor. When you make contact, you need to be able to drop your ruck via the QR buckles, and that won't work if your LBE is holding onto it.

[mitunnelrat]

I'm tracking on the chest rig, but I'm curious about the sling. I know the technique you described has it under your armpit on your weak side when shooting, but doesn't it slide down toward your left hip when you lower the rifle's muzzle? That's where my original 2 point went when cross slung.

I was in mechanized units though, and when we did march with packs and rifles, using the issued "carry strap" was forbidden, so I'm learning more as I go now - and it just seems like slinging it over the shoulder strap of a ruck would do more to impede the movements I'd expect the sling to make than putting the ruck on over it. So wouldn't the latter method make more sense?

[Kutter-0311]

If you've got a modern 2-point(VCAS, YTAC) and you loosen it up, it should move pretty freely over your ruck strap. If you notice it getting hung up when you need to move it, drop your arm out and wear it necklace style. Running a sling under your ruck will get it hung up, with no meathod of release other than dropping your ruck.

[mitunnelrat]

Makes sense, and when you mentioned the "necklace style" you jogged a memory, since I used to carry the SAW like that.

I had a whole (ok, half formed) line of thought that made it seem like a good thing to have a sling capable of working under a ruck, which I thought something like the VCAS might work for, but now that I've sat and thought it through I can't think of anything realistic that would require me to move so fast I can't adjust my sling to accommodate rucking up. Especially since I was overlooking the obvious - that I could transition to and from that necklace style to keep the rifle on me and the sling over the pack straps...

Thank you.

[Kutter-0311]

Hey, don't be afraid to try new things;)

Few things are universal, so I can't say there are not, nor will be in the future, gear or a way of employing gear that won't work a different way, but everything I have used or seen used pretty much goes one way, armor/LBE first, ruck second, rifle sling on top.

I think this has pretty much been the case since WWI, perhaps even before.

Depending on when you were in, you may have seen a shift from the old LBV/pistol belt worn over armor, to FLC worn over armor, to pouches bolted right on to armor, to chest rigs over full armor/plate carrier, and all kinds of other shit. Gear has been evolving at a breakneck pace, and not everything works, or works well, together. There's a lot of stuff to process when assembling gear, and then you usually have to change a few things after you train with it a bit.

Never be afraid to try something new, just try to run any new set-up in training a bit before running out to the two-way range.

[mitunnelrat]

Oh, trust me, I'm not afraid to try new things. I'm betting the evolution of my gear is well documented just on this site alone :D

There's also a better than average chance I'll have a ruck on over that sling at least once - along with any other manner of carry methods/ gear configurations - just to see how it acts and feels.

Thanks were, and are, still in order for the prod in critical thinking though.

As for gear evolution... I had an LBV/ belt for about a year in the middle of my enlistment. Before and after that was the Y harness. No armor. We had flak vests, but they were rarely worn. Rucks were strapped my APC or trailered.

For that matter, my LBE spent more time on top of my track than it did on my waist. The driver's hatch just wasn't big enough to keep it on - and I was a small guy then.

I would have rather stayed the SAW gunner, I only got to do that for a few months.