Individual First Aid Gear Placement

[izzyscout21]

Let's talk about gear placement on the primary gear a bit as it relates to what we do.
I realize that this can fit in either the Equipment forum or the medical, so since this is medical related, let's put it here for now.
　

Something we should all consider if you maintain any kind of fighting load is where you should put your medical kit and what should be in it.
　
For most of us, we have at least one other person that may be around should SHTF. This is what I want to address.
　
Guys and Gals:
There is no reason you should have to carry a full on first aid/ trauma kit on your fighting gear.
Why?
　
Well, for starters, that takes up a lot of room that could be best utilized for something else.
I'm not saying that having a full blown kit is bad, far from it. It is my opinion based on experience, that the more extensive kit and supplies should be maintained within easy reach either at your BOL or in your BOV for easy access. This is to treat other injuries other than your own. You may even be the one doing the treating.
　
Your personal kit that stays on your loadout should be smaller and lighter. It is used for treating YOU. A blowout kit on your gear is for your use. Not your buddy, not your dog. As such, your buddy should also have one on their person, in a similar placement as yours clearly marked. This is what you use to treat injured comrades. If you have to use yours, so be it, but always try to use theirs first. You may need it later.
　
Here's an exmple:
My Blow Out Kit on my vest contains the following items:
1 Israeli Bandage
1 CAT Tourniqet
1 pair of EMT shears
1 pack of Quick Clot.
　
See.....small. Compact. Simple.
　
This combination can be used to treat most inuries related to *scuffles* you may get into.

If you need a bandaid, chances are you can wait until later, when you can pull it out of a larger kit. I have a full stocked STOMP medical bag just for this purpose.
　

Secondly, this kit should be located somewhere on the kit, where both hands can access it with ease. It does you absolutely no good if you can't reach it. Period. This is pretty common sense.
Life saving self-aid is almost always a very difficult thing to do, understandably. Frankly, if you're in a position where you can do more self aid than very simple things like applying a TK, then you're most likely not hurt enough for the delay between self aid and buddy aid to matter.

Ever tried to apply an Israeli Dressing with one hand in a real life situation? It's hard. Very hard. Pretty much impossible. You're better off using your mitt to hold pressure until someone else can get there and help you get it on correctly. Same with regular gauze. It doesn't really have an advantage over hand pressure in a self aid situation. The only thing that might be better would be something like Combat Gauze, or another similar hemostatic agent, and even that's iffy if you should waste your time trying to open it up (which would leave you bleeding without any interventions while you fumble with it).

I always teach people who ask me to do the following if they're hit:

1. Return fire if still you can.
2. Get to better cover.
3. Start holding pressure.
4. Call out that you're wounded.
5. If you can, put on a TK as tight as you can.
6. Keep breathing, shooting back, and wait for us to show up to help you. We'll be there.
7. Re-evaluate your condition periodically.

Again, if you're wounded so much that you can't get your IFAK on one side, then you're very likely wounded so much that you wouldn't be able to use anything in it if you could get to it, other than a TK.

If you can get your IFAK, good stuff, start fixing yourself and get back into the fight you malingerer.

Just a few thoughts.

Comments? Additions?

[LUNCHBOX]

I keep a Quikclot, Is bandage, CAT and a H&H wrap just in case its a through and through. I don't carry the shears...I figure cutting with a blade is just as well. I fully agree an "oh shit, I'm hit kit" is all you should carry on your rolling rigand keep a more complete kit in your pack.

[realist]

Great advice. We operate under the same premise.

Special Operations Technologies (http://specopstech.com/osc/product_info.php?products_id=1816&osCsid=24f64740caba096fbb56201fef132731)

I have been carrying one of these for the past 6 years and it has been through a lot. I carry the same as you however there are a couple of things for bobos as well. I can hook it to a belt or pack. When I am in the car the hook and loop (Velcro) keeps it on the transmission hump so it is accessible anytime.

I have a Stomp that I have since switched out for a pack from Tactical Survival Specialties.
M4 Special Operations Medical Bag (http://store.tssi-ops.com/p-690-m4-special-operations-medical-bag.aspx)
It is smaller but suits my needs for a small team. The big thing is no matter what you have you need to know how to use it. The problem is that there are so many things to learn and only so much time..........

[mitunnelrat]

I've got the HSGI bleeder kit on my vest, with a CAT holder from narescue strapped to the side, and the shears strapped into the provided space. I probably jammed too much into it though.

In addition to any izzy dressing, quikclot packet, and H&H gauze I've got an NPA, skin marker, plastic sheeting/ 100 mph tape, and PPE for whoever's treating me (mask and gloves.)

I keep meaning to replace the plastic sheeting and tape with an ACS, I have one thanks to LUNCHBOX. I'm overdue. Then, I want to add a decompression needle for treating tension pnuemothorax.

I say "jammed", but it all moves easily when I yank the pullout strap.

[Gunfixr]

I have a standard US IFAK.
For base camp, there is a platoon kit, which has the surgical kit and splint kit.

[apssbc]

I keep a kit with a Cat, OLAES Bandage, a few triangles, quick clot, and a few airway items in my BOK on my gear. I carry a more advanced and extensive kit in my assault pack for short "missions." The assault pack fits in my main pack and is positioned on top for quick access along with my emergency kit. Being a Medic as my career naturally that is my role in my group thus I carry a little more of those items.

I have another cat on my chest in reach of either arm. Between my LBV, BOK, and Med Pack I have 4 CATS. Those are one item worth their weight.

[Stormfeather]

We all have standard .mil IFAK's on our gear, plus the whole huge medic stomp packs already packed with gobs of surplus supplies boxed up already. Actually, this reminds me I need to check a batch of Saline bags that I know was getting close!

[ak474u]

One of the dealers that carries my company's flashlights has a company that makes really cool MOLLE gear, and holsters as well as lots of paracord items... the other day, we had our annual dealer lunch, and he showed me a new ankle rig BOK he has come up with, it's pretty sweet, I'll try to get a photo of it and post it. I put it on and it was very comfy, and had lotsa goodies in it as well as a hook and loop section for Blood type patch and a little more space.


Medical Ankle Holster (http://www.traumamedicalsupply.com/holster.html) Here it is, his website isn't great, but is products are top notch.

[LUNCHBOX]

^^^That last sentence brings up a question....Do you know all the blood types in your immediate family? If not, well, you get the idea. It might not be a bad idea to come up with a personal "dog tag" for each member of your family with just some basic info--allergy, blood type or even major meds. Just an idea.

[izzyscout21]

One of the dealers that carries my company's flashlights has a company that makes really cool MOLLE gear, and holsters as well as lots of paracord items... the other day, we had our annual dealer lunch, and he showed me a new ankle rig BOK he has come up with, it's pretty sweet, I'll try to get a photo of it and post it. I put it on and it was very comfy, and had lotsa goodies in it as well as a hook and loop section for Blood type patch and a little more space.


Medical Ankle Holster (http://www.traumamedicalsupply.com/holster.html) Here it is, his website isn't great, but is products are top notch.


that............is very different.

[GunnerMax]

I have my http://www.narescue.com/Maritime_Assault_Kit_(CCRK)-CNDF5284D1920A.html?BC=3000250D2301 on my Plate carrier, hooked onto my right side plate.

Its specifically made for NECC

[ak474u]

that............is very different.



Yeah, it looks really bulky, but it's really light weight. His intent when he made it was for it to be a buddy-assist kind of thing for LE, etc. who might be pinned down, or cut off from immediate help. I told him I'd like to see that same sized kit on a semi rigid panel that would fit in a man bag and could be pulled out of the bag quickly.

[rentprop1]

^^^That last sentence brings up a question....Do you know all the blood types in your immediate family? If not, well, you get the idea. It might not be a bad idea to come up with a personal "dog tag" for each member of your family with just some basic info--allergy, blood type or even major meds. Just an idea.

no first responder or EMT is gonna trust a patch, dog tag or sticker, you will not get blood till they type you at the hospital, no sticker will make that process go any faster

[ak474u]

Probably not, but... If you're in-route in an ambulance, they can call ahead for the blood type needed. Also a MAG member might be able to save your life post-shtf if he happens to have your blood type, and the medic or MAG doc deems it necessary to have a transfusion.

[LUNCHBOX]

no first responder or EMT is gonna trust a patch, dog tag or sticker, you will not get blood till they type you at the hospital, no sticker will make that process go any faster

I'm basing my comments to a time frame when EMTs are not showing. This is all in a survival situation. AK answered it best....someone in your small colony may be your only chance and not knowing b-types is not an option.

[apssbc]

On the ambulance at least in my area we do not call ahead with blood types. It's to risky for the hospitals to trust anything but the tests. Maybe if you have your shit squared away and the doc trusts you it may help getting it faster.

Now mag wise you should all know types just in case. I recommend writing it on your ifak or somewhere on your kit that's easily readable. You never know post shtf if you'll need blood. Everyone should know or have a way of finding out if the situation presents itself.

[rentprop1]

so how do you find out your blood type if you don't know ....give blood ??

[apssbc]

Id recommend giving blood, thats how I found out. Otherwise ask your doctor and see if he/she can do something for you. Thats the only way I know of to find out.

[GunnerMax]

Mine is A Pos, and that is reflected on my dog tags that are ALWAYS on me. And written on my boots. i do not have an A+ patch yet.

[Kesephist]

Does anyone here know if there is a bloodtyping test kit, even an experimental one, that can be used onsite/during transport? Seems to me to be a good piece of gear to have plenty of for the groups.

[Fidel MD]

Does anyone here know if there is a bloodtyping test kit, even an experimental one, that can be used onsite/during transport? Seems to me to be a good piece of gear to have plenty of for the groups.


Why? If you need blood, NOBODY gives a crap about what your CDI tags, mil issued dog tags, or tattoos say. Blood will be typed and cross-matched between donor and recipient, and unless you have the proper blood collection and transfer supplies, you won't be able to transfuse it anyway (hint: it's not IV tubing).

But Eldon cards are available.

[bourneshooter]

TQ is always on my kit. Usually in addition to the one on the IFAK that is found on all fighting gear setups.

Duty Belt: CAT, no IFAK. I usually have a pack of combat gauze in my pocket though.

Plate Carriers: Either a Dark Angel Medical IFAK or North American Rescue (NAR) IFAK.

Heavy Turtle/SWAT vest: NAR IFAK, extra TQ on chest in centerline.

Off duty/EDC: CAT in cargo pocket, IFAK nearby in a backpack. If doing hiking, a full IFAK and a first aid kit is in the backpack. If running range drills for work, I have a CAT in my pocket and a IFAK in my pocket as well as on the counter at the range for ease of use for accidents.

My SHTF kit will be whatever is left of the above by the time its truly SHTF and I have stacked extra IFAK parts on hand to restock the kits should I need to. I also keep any "expired" parts of the gear just in case.

I did a few blog posts on this stuff:
http://bluelinesheepdog.blogspot.com/2014/09/dark-angel-medical-dark-and-pocket-dark.html

http://bluelinesheepdog.blogspot.com/2014/03/phokus-research-group-sons-trauma-kits.html

http://bluelinesheepdog.blogspot.com/2014/02/first-spear-tourniquet-pouch.html

http://bluelinesheepdog.blogspot.com/2014/02/first-spear-tourniquet-pouch-follow-up.html

http://bluelinesheepdog.blogspot.com/2012/10/pocket-carry-ifaks.html

http://bluelinesheepdog.blogspot.com/2012/09/font-face-font-family-times-new-romanp.html

http://bluelinesheepdog.blogspot.com/2012/08/ifaks-for-leoccw.html

I take a yearly TCCC re cert and bi-annual Red Cross First Aid/CPR recert. I'm going to look into the wilderness first responder course due to spending time away from home and easy medical care on a semi frequent basis. Alot of these classes will also cover utilyzing what medical gear you have on hand as well as other stuff to supplement your gear.

Another forum I'm on was discussing medical sustainment post initial trauma/infection. What additional supplies you can get without prescriptions do you have? I look at trying to keep Hydrogen Peroxide, Gauze, Band-aids, Aintibiotic Ointment, and similar on hand. Trying to buy some of them every quarter as well as a full IFAK restock kit once a year.

[Kesephist]

Does any one here know of a gel version of H202 or alcohol that isn't toxic? Seems to me gel packets of such would be a more minimal spill hazard than a bottle. I thought alcohol 'gel' and there you are, Sterno... but that isnt something you'd want to put in a wound.

I'm of the line of thought that most folks here that want more potent ( and therefore less OTC ) meds have access to a MD who can write scrips for them. Needing a scrip for an IV kit... eesh. More along my thought are field antivenin kits for the various venomed critters in one's AO. (Need an epipen or other autojector for the reals fast toxins like coral snakes.) Out here we have copperheads, rattlers, Gila monsters, scorpions, black widows. On top of that, there are, so I am told, differing venoms within a general species, Western Diamondback using one type, Carolina rattlers another, as an example.)

I'm already a barbarian in here as it stands, might as well go the whole hog... for ersatz surgical gear, could one get away with X-Acto knives for scalpels, and leatherworking curved needles for suturing needles?

Kesephist

[Fidel MD]

Does any one here know of a gel version of H202 or alcohol that isn't toxic? Seems to me gel packets of such would be a more minimal spill hazard than a bottle. I thought alcohol 'gel' and there you are, Sterno... but that isnt something you'd want to put in a wound.

I'm of the line of thought that most folks here that want more potent ( and therefore less OTC ) meds have access to a MD who can write scrips for them. Needing a scrip for an IV kit... eesh. More along my thought are field antivenin kits for the various venomed critters in one's AO. (Need an epipen or other autojector for the reals fast toxins like coral snakes.) Out here we have copperheads, rattlers, Gila monsters, scorpions, black widows. On top of that, there are, so I am told, differing venoms within a general species, Western Diamondback using one type, Carolina rattlers another, as an example.)

I'm already a barbarian in here as it stands, might as well go the whole hog... for ersatz surgical gear, could one get away with X-Acto knives for scalpels, and leatherworking curved needles for suturing needles?

Kesephist

Peroxide is not worth keeping or using.

Antivenins are extremely expensive, and usually is very short-lived and needs refrigeration, when you need it you need a LOT of it, and you stand a good chance of having an allergic reaction.

And while epinephrine inj is pretty cheap, an epi pen is incredibly expensive (think a buck a shot vs. $100 or so). If you need 1 epi pen injection, there is a very good chance you will need two. The epi pens are also kind of short lived.

[Sniper-T]

hmm epipens... this reminds me of something...