Can you make those tough decisions?

[TroubleShooter]

Sorry, I did not get to post in the sparrowthread, although I read it and it was closed before I responded...

But the thread brought back some memories......

Getting rid of someone from a group, team or whatever, if needed.......How many of us can make that decision during a time of SHTF and remain neutral regardless of the friendship or relationship? I lost a friend many years ago , I spent my Jr high and high school years running with, over a decision to cut him from a team...My decision based solely on the team's needs, he was not a need....I still remember his words...

Then 20 some years later.....I laid a longtime friend off from his job , who had been an employee of mine for 5 years.......

In both instances the need was there............Yet each re-acted different.

My question is............. As a leader or decision maker during a SHTF will you make decisions based on needs or emotion ? Do you have the mindset to do what is necessary based only on the facts...Could you banish a family member/friend who was disrupting your security/mag ? Would you risk the lives of others in your group , team or mag to make sure your elderly mother/father , your child/spouse was comfortable..?

How would you handle internal conflicts....By group or solely as the leader?

[Taz Baby]

This may sound harsh but when it comes down to it, Me and mine come first no questions asked.

[RedJohn]

I am a heartless SOB. I base my decision on needs for survival only. The law of the fittest (body, mind or value).

[realist]

It is easy to say no problem until that problem faces you squarely. Frankly it sucks but has to be done. Taz when it is personal, family it makes it easier, I'm with you.

[The Stig]

My parents, despite all the good things they did raising my brother and I, engage in some very unhealthy emotional behaviors. It was best that we go our separate ways and that was one of the harder decisions I've ever made. But it was for the betterment of my wife and child so the decision was made.

Could I make the same decision again with a team member? I'd like to think so and based on the above I've done it. But ultimately it ain't easy so I can't say "yea fo sho" until the time comes.

If I'm tasked with leadership I hope I can dig deep and make the tough calls when the time comes.

[Fatty]

You can say morals may go out the window during some shtf events, but I'm ruled by emotions. Emotions that act on morals.

[apssbc]

All the risks would need to be weighed carefully. I think each mag should have a president so to speak a leader if you would but the decision making should be in the group not left to one person. I will do anything to protect my family and if a group I am in is heading the wrong direction I will attempt to correct the problem or I will leave. I would banish family or friend that wasnt pulling his or her weight its something I have to mentally prepare for as I have some family that would be more than useless if shtf. I would try and make the kids and elderly comfortable as long as the risk wasnt too high. They deserve some level of normalcy and I have to attempt to give that to them. However that goes out the window when security and lives are at stake.

Hard decisions are something I deal with all the time at work. I have peoples lives in my hands daily. Depending on the incident I have to decide who lives and who dies. Triage sucks but you cant give care to those who you know are going to die when the next person may be able to survive. Moral of the story is you cant help everyone, and there will be problems but you have got to be majorly tough mentally to overcome. 50% of survival is mental preparation.

Im not all that, but I have made hard decisions before and I will again if need be. I do not know exactly how I will respond all I can do is hope that I will do what is necessary and what is right. If given a leadership role I will do my best to succeed.

[ladyhk13]

Yes and I have had to do it. My oldest son is no longer in my life due to his choices in HIS life. I will not allow people in my life that are unhealthy for me. He has been a disruption even as a child. He has never changed. I won't go into any details but when a kid tells you to go fuck yourself among other things it was just the breaking point. I had another child to think about and refused to allow anyone...I don't care who it was to destroy the harmony that needs to be in the family unit...a MAG or any kind of community runs on the same principal. It's a hard fact of life and some people can't understand how a mother can turn her back on a son but some people just aren't worth saving and dealing with. let them go and disrupt others, I won't allow it. I take a lot of crap and don't like confrontation but once I hit my point all my German comes out and there is no going back. Once I am done with someone I am done.

[LUNCHBOX]

I feel if your on your own then its obviously your decision. I also feel in a mag situation you should not have any one individual in charge. I can say I know a lot of things but I don't know it all. I believe the group should be ran "Round Table" style. Besides, if someone is not carrying his/her load then everyone will know it and have a say. I won't be a part of a "its my way or the highway" leadership and any person that doesn't understand that doesn't deserve my company anyway.

[Stormfeather]

I tend to agree with the majority here, There does need to be a person in charge, but decisions should be made as a group. The problem with having one person making all the decisions, if that person may be flawed in thinking or react emotionally to an issue. So I have to agree with one person in charge but decisions made as a group.

[Dropy]

I am feeling what Stormfeather is saying here. Its hard to be a leader. Unfortunately most leaders think they are the end-all be-all. They fail to realize that they should instead be the greatest servant to the group. Its hard to make those tought calls, but i know i could do it. Even if it was family.

I disagree with Taz Baby to a point here. If it is one of mine doing the disruption then i gotta treat them like i would any other. It is what is expected as a leader. But also as a good leader you can handle such things without having to go to such extremes. Cutting someone lose should be last case scenario.

[Optimist]

Any of you ever raise livestock? There's a reason you don't get too attached, and the same is going to hold true if you are running a group. Survival is, in the long run, not going to happen. We all die. The point is to make the longest run, under the best conditions, that we can make, and to avoid getting in anybody else's way while we are doing it.

I have survived a lot of things. Many of 'em I handled on my own. A few I had to have help with. On those I had to have help with, I return help for help given, to the limits of my ability, and I help others, not for their sake but for my own. The day will come when I do not survive some challenge or other. When that day comes, those who survive me are welcome to my goodies.

[ladyhk13]

I think we take a page out of our Constitution and Bill of Rights. We have a President, the Senate and Congress... No one Branch has too much power.

[TroubleShooter]

In one of my roles, other team members as a group and some by themselves, voiced their concerns to me privately and wanted to remain unknown. Comments here , raise additional concerns , many of you are voicing concerns over the show being run by one or one person having too much decision making power....But sometimes not all is what it appears, just the figurehead or leader makes the decision and voices it....

I think maybe more insight into the past issue might help..... My team was a coed team. Two women, one of which had been the victim voiced the problems to me. I spoke with the guy and asked him to stop the comments. From there the problem just snowballed, he went from just commenting to grabbing , stalking , This woman just tripped his trigger and she would not give him the time of day. Every woman in the group at one time or another complained about him bothering this woman. I watched , I quietly inquired , never could I witness the problem...Finally the women give me a choice, all five of them were quitting the team if nothing was done........So, I went to him a third time......Why are you still bothering this woman, grabbing her ass and following her around? ...............He says, she playing hard to get, she will come around......

What were my choices.........?

This event could be very likely in a long term SHTF event....and most women will not want the rest of the group to know...

To the rest of the team, all they seen was me cutting a good player and me being vague in my reason why....Being disruptive to other team members....

[apssbc]

Cutting him made the most sense an he was obviously a problem and showed signs that he may do worse things if she didn't "come around." You may have been able to tell other members that there were unwanted sexual advances to multiple people. No names are given as to who ans it could have been any number of women in the group. But you did the right thing.

[ladyhk13]

Cutting him made the most sense an he was obviously a problem and showed signs that he may do worse things if she didn't "come around." You may have been able to tell other members that there were unwanted sexual advances to multiple people. No names are given as to who ans it could have been any number of women in the group. But you did the right thing.

A man like that you can bet has a history of this behavior and you in not getting rid of him would have opened your company up for a law suit which in turn would have endangered your position in your company plus the trust and respect you hold with the other women in your group. Men like that are dangerous and I am glad and honored that you took the position to protect this woman. Kuddos to you.

[Dropy]

Yeah, that dude needed a backyard checkup, then he needed to be booted for good!

[Optimist]

For now, you chose right. If things are on a war footing, his knowledge and hard feelings would pose a threat to the continued existance of the members of your group. And that would prove a hard choice indeed, Troubleshooter.

[ladyhk13]

For now, you chose right. If things are on a war footing, his knowledge and hard feelings would pose a threat to the continued existance of the members of your group. And that would prove a hard choice indeed, Troubleshooter.

I as a woman in a time of was having to put up with that kind of man with those kind of hard feelings posing a threat would meet my "LadyHK" and I would apologize for nothing. My days of putting up with that kind of man are over never to be repeated.

[Optimist]

From the post, you been there, lady, and I respect that. Man treats a woman that way, ain't much man in my book, and merits no consideration at all, at all....

[bacpacker]

I've never dealt with making calls in a SHTF situation. I have however spent a lot of time as a supervisor/manager in a plant. I was over 20+ folks and had to make some tough calls on folks from correcting actions to firing people.
I have to think I could make a call that needed making. I sure wouldn't allow someone to risk the welfare or lives of a group I was a member of. I won't do that with family and see no reason to with a any one else.

[ladyhk13]

From the post, you been there, lady, and I respect that. Man treats a woman that way, ain't much man in my book, and merits no consideration at all, at all....

Yeah well that was back in the day when it was still "This Man's Army" and you were really screwed if you were a halfway decent looking girl especially a really young innocent one. No protection from anyone.

[captainhippy]

The more I think about this topic the more I believe there needs to be some distance between a leader and his / her men.

For instance, can your closest friends that have known you since you were a child see you as a leader and not their friend? That is a difficult transition to make, I know from working at the same businesses as my friends in the past and ending up having to be their superiors later on. Some saw me differently, some saw me the same. It is probably better for everyone if early on the "leader" is well-established and is in some way separate from the others. Doesn't mean you can't bond with your men, but I think that a different relationship must exist and it can't be buddy-buddy. I knew a few fathers of friends of mine that raised their sons to be their best buddies. In most of those instances they did not turn out well.

Whenever I think of a topic like this the book "Ender's Game" always comes to mind. :)

[izzyscout21]

I don't think it's that difficult. Decisions have to be made, and someone has to do it.

I was friends with all the soldiers I led. Even though we were buddies, they knew to get their ass in line or face consequences. I even wrote my buddy up for an Article 15. Tense........yeah....but it had to be done. He knew that, and got over it.

For SHTF, I dont imagine it being much different. DO what has to be done. Get in line for the good of the rest or leave. Pretty simple.

[Grumpy Old Man]

SHTF here at the plant yesterday and I had to let 1/2 my staff go. It was a hard decision, but to keep the company going it was necessary. I'm with BP on this, if your in management you are making these decisions on a regular basis. I've never really gotten used to or comfortable with it, because people's lives are affected. But, it has become less intimidating over time. I think it will carry over in a major SHTF event.

[bacpacker]

Thats bad news Grumpy, sorry to hear that. You are right though, Doing stuff like that is awful the first time and always sucks. It does get a little easier after a few times. I sure hope that carries over to SHTF. I'm counting on it.

[GunnerMax]

sorry to hear that grumpy. It had to be done though....

[TroubleShooter]

The more I think about this topic the more I believe there needs to be some distance between a leader and his / her men.

For instance, can your closest friends that have known you since you were a child see you as a leader and not their friend? That is a difficult transition to make, I know from working at the same businesses as my friends in the past and ending up having to be their superiors later on. Some saw me differently, some saw me the same. It is probably better for everyone if early on the "leader" is well-established and is in some way separate from the others. Doesn't mean you can't bond with your men, but I think that a different relationship must exist and it can't be buddy-buddy. I knew a few fathers of friends of mine that raised their sons to be their best buddies. In most of those instances they did not turn out well.

Whenever I think of a topic like this the book "Ender's Game" always comes to mind. :)

Maybe so.....but in the early stages such as right now, when people are building mags or networking together.......Then a SHTF and they come together, a leader or decision maker will likely be a current member...or a well known associate.

Maybe now would be a good time to assess who you see as a leader and what determines your choice....and what disqualifies them.