U.N. small arms trade treaty

[Baker]

Your opinions? I'd add links but I'm on my phone. Y'all have to research it yourself if you don't know what it is.

[apssbc]

I've done some research. Planning a lot more tomorrow. Initially i am thinking its not to worry about...dont get me wrong I despise the UN. But from what I understand the Senate has to ratify a treaty and can overrule potus if that jack wagon signs it. I dont see it affecting us much nor do i see any gun grab coming, it would be a costly mistake.

Again this is my initial look at it...I may have just swung and missed completely.

[Baker]

Let's hope it's nothing to worry about. But the fact is, they want an end result of us not being allowed to have firearms in any means due to their "international treaties".

No, that's not what this current one outlines (to an extent) but that's what the UN wants.

[apssbc]

They know that they need to enforce it if they get their ban... Guess what we have more guns than them. They don't have the muscle to enforce it. Them coming here would be an act of war. As for our own gov trying to it would be unconstitutional and they would be dealt with.

We are the three percent. If you do the math we vastly outnumber them and just about any forces they bring to us.

[ladyhk13]

I have written to my Senators regarding this already. Yes, it does need a 2/3rds vote in order to pass when Clinton brings it to them later this month. One said he was not voting for it no matter what it said, the other was willing to read it first and then decide. The one who would consider it wrote this to me:

Thank you for taking the time to contact my office to share your concerns about the prospect of a conventional arms trade treaty. Your input is important to me and I appreciate the time you took to share your thoughts.



Please know that the right to own firearms for shooting, hunting, and self-protection is important to me as a Tennessean and as an American. I believe in safeguarding the rights of law-abiding American citizens. I will be a consistent voice for the Second A mendment, and I will fight attempts to weaken those rights that are granted in the Constitution.



As you may know, the U.N. passed a resolution stating intentions to begin negotiating an international agreement surrounding the import, export and transfer of conventional arms. These negotiations will conclude with the United Nations Conference on the Arms Trade Treaty in 2012.



At this time there is no treaty pending before the United States Senate as the negotiations are ongoing . That said, I will continue to closely monitor the negotiations over the next year, and I can assure you, I will not vote for a measure that infringes upon U.S. sovereignty or a person's right to keep and bear arms. For this reason, I along with several of my colleagues in the Senate, sent a letter to President Obama expressing strong support for the constitutional protections of civilian gun ownership, and stating intentions to oppose any treaty that is presented to the Senate which in any way restricts the rights of law-abiding citizens to manufacture, assemble, possess, transfer or purchase firearms and ammunition. In addition, you may be interested in the attached "Policy Points" document to learn more about the steps I have taken to protect our S econd A mendment rights.

Now I do not care for this guy nor does he have the best record for voting in the best interests of Republicans so he can say one thing and vote a different way. I had also asked in my letter to explain his view on the appointment of Iran on the panel for weapons regulation at the U.N. which to me is totally insane and how much I would like to see the U.S. send the U.N. packing. They harm us more than help. He never answered that part of the question. My concern was if the treaty was passed and Iran has any control over weapons regulation it could harm us through the back door.
Oh well. So much for full answers.

[bacpacker]

That had to be Lamar Alexander. That man talks out of both sides of his mouth so much you cant tell which one to listen to. I guess thats the point.

[ak474u]

I worry less about such a treaty being signed "this time" than I will next time. With things like fast and furious blowing up in O-dawg's face like it did, there isn't a groundswell of support at this time for restrictions, which F&F was all about to start with. IMHO. The Mexican govt should sue the US govt on behalf of the victims of F&F just on principle alone. Heads should roll when it comes to any infringement of the 2A especially since it has been upheld by the SCOTUS.

The Second Amendment, protecting all the others.

[The Stig]

Political issues aside, this is one to keep an eye on.

I don't believe for one second for the tinfoil nonsense that this will result in baby-blue helmets marching down our streets. That is simply a jerk-off fantasy for fat commando-wannabes.

I do however, think people would be wise to keep an eye on this as it could effect the importation of cheep surplus ammo. More importantly from a prep standpoint (if this comes to pass) is what other hair-brained UN treaties can be ratified by the Senate and prevent us from being ready to deal with SHTF events?

Generators are bad because they cause global warming? Having "too much food" storied away isn't fair to the rest of the world and should be spread around? Carbon use taxes that increase the cost of living and reduce how much income can be used to prep?

[LUNCHBOX]

Political issues aside, this is one to keep an eye on.

I don't believe for one second for the tinfoil nonsense that this will result in baby-blue helmets marching down our streets. That is simply a jerk-off fantasy for fat commando-wannabes.

I do however, think people would be wise to keep an eye on this as it could effect the importation of cheep surplus ammo. More importantly from a prep standpoint (if this comes to pass) is what other hair-brained UN treaties can be ratified by the Senate and prevent us from being ready to deal with SHTF events?

Generators are bad because they cause global warming? Having "too much food" storied away isn't fair to the rest of the world and should be spread around? Carbon use taxes that increase the cost of living and reduce how much income can be used to prep?

Did you just call me FAT? haha, seriously I don't know what to think anymore. everytime we turn around someone is wanting you to agree on this or sign that. I don't think we can keep on the track we are on as a whole, something will have to give sooner or later.

[ladyhk13]

BP, you would think it was Lamar since he is always flip flopping but his pal Bob Corker was it this time.
I do worry about the UN and it's power over the U.S. and our ability to keep the freedoms we have now not to mention the amount of money we "donate (pay off)" to other countries. We are bound by so many rules that I believe it is contributing to the decline of this nation and Stig you do make a valid point...who WILL be making those decisions about how much of certain items will be allowed to be stored by individuals before it's going to be considered illegal? Are we going to be told that our population is too high (too much CO2) so we will have to cut down on our allowed births all the while we refuse to get control of our illegal immigration which once again puts a strain on our financial system not to mention dilutes the American population? I think that the power of the UN over the US has ramifacations far beyond what we think of on a daily basis but has a huge impact on our quality of living and how we are going to prep for the degradation of this country just as it has in Europe.

[MegaCPC]

U.N. treaty does not supersede COTUS.

To actually take hundreds of millions of guns from American citizens would be really difficult for the UN to accomplish.

[Grumpy Old Man]

Actually, I believe that the Austrian Accord binds us to honoring the treaty until such time as the Senate overturns it or the POTUS renounces it. By signing and not taking it before a Senate vote they can begin setting up the logistics to honor the treaty. Your vote will be important this year.

[Gunfixr]

I believe I read somewhere that on July 27th, Obama and Hillary plan to sign this. A that point, in order to become law of the land, 2/3 of the Senate must ratify it.
I've heard rumors about using "executive priviledge" or similar to get around the Senate, but that's all they are. I don't if that's even possible on something like this.


They can sign what they want. According to the Constitution, we are obliged to ignore any UnConstitutional law.

[MegaCPC]

According to the Constitution, we are obliged to ignore any UnConstitutional law.
This.

Bottom line is this will not fly here in the States. At least not in this point in time.

There's simply too many Americans that will shoot back.

[ladyhk13]

I do believe that if the POTUS wants it done and gets reelected he would find a way to make it almost impossible for law abiding citizens to buy guns and ammo by using the treaty as he does have a history of going around the Senate/Congress to get what he wants.
Who would have thought that ObamaCare would have been found Constitutional? Since when can Americans across the board be forced to purchase a service or be fined by IRS (and still not get the service) and it be called a tax? Aren't "taxes" one of the reasons our Forefounders left England? Isn't it the reason for the Boston Tea Party? I really don't think we have that many people in America now that are willing to stand up and fight the gov't which would amount to a takeover because they would not give it over willingly. How much soverienty to we really have left? We have a piece of paper that is supposed to protect us but over the years the Progressives (Socialists) have interpreted it as they wish...they have not gone by the word. Separation of Church and state...they think that it means we cant' have the 10 Commandments or celebrate Christmas or say prayer in school. NO, it means that our gov't cannot tell us that the U.S. is going to be a Baptist/Catholic/Muslim country and that is the only religion allowed to be practiced. But because of PC it has been allowed to watered down and meaningless. We can have free speach as long as it doesn't offend someone else because then it becomes hate speach which is against the law now (unless you are of certain groups who are protected).

My point? I do not have faith that our Constitution alone will stop the Treaty from hurting our gun rights. People depend upon it too much and believe TPTB will be honest and take their oath to heart. But when we have openly Socialist, Communist and Muslim Senators/Congressmen our Constitution is in danger. They do not believe in our Constitution and have no problems slowly destroying it. This unfortunately has contributed and will continue to taint our gov't which has a domino effect on our economy, stability in the world, and freedoms here at home.

[eagle326]

My fellow Ants:
I come before you today as an aged warrior from the season of my youth in the year August 1970 to August 1971. In a land far off in South East Asia laid a small country called South Vietnam. It was a small place with people yearning for freedom from Communism. Not all but many citizens fought bravely and many died along side my brethern.

The enemy fought a war against freedom in every sense of the word just as our unjust politicians and President are doing today with help from many left wing groups and news outlets. They like the enemy back then doesn't come at you in a full assault.
They piecemeal you in small battles keeping your attention drawn to that ; While they plan an try to execute their main battle plans else where.

They keep you looking at;
1- Iran ; Israel conflict
2- Iran nuclear bomb.
3- presidential election
And many more ; While they try to downplay Arms treaty ; Job losses ; immigration loopholes and more just to keep you from focusing on the real battle zone.

This is a plan that has been in the works for a generation. Slowly dumb down the kids thru education and convince the majority of the population that they're entitled to free things from the Fed. Govt. and you have an unbeatable voting block until the worker's money runs out and then everybody works for the Govt. or is classified an Enemy of the State.

My fellow Ants we are in the mist of traitors to this country inside and out of it that mean to bring us down to the level of surfs or slaves ; which ever they choose. This election will be the election that tells us which way we go. Though we may be in the mist of a coming battle for our freedom and our children's and grand children's. I always rest better knowing the colony is keeping a vigilance towards our combined future of freedom.

Getting off my soap box now.

[Gunfixr]

Oh, don't be misled into thinking that I rely solely on the belief in the Constitution to keep anybody from breaking it.
Like you, I know that it has been broken many many times lately.

It is just the reason I will not obey illegal laws.


BTW: the Supreme Court ruling wasn't a total loss, actually. The way the ruling was written, there will actually be limitations on what could be done in the future.

[eagle326]

Oh, don't be misled into thinking that I rely solely on the belief in the Constitution to keep anybody from breaking it.
Like you, I know that it has been broken many many times lately.

It is just the reason I will not obey illegal laws.


BTW: the Supreme Court ruling wasn't a total loss, actually. The way the ruling was written, there will actually be limitations on what could be done in the future.


I wasn't aiming this at you Gunfixr. I've read a great many of your post and we stand united in our beliefs. My post was about thinking thru my span of time on this earth and my youthful journey back then and how it mirrors today's climate. It was just my old age ramblings. :)

And yes ; we're going to be ignoring a lot of unconstitutional laws here in the near future brother.

[Gunfixr]

I know you weren't. Actually, it was more of a response to LadyHK.
I just didn't want her to think that I foolishly believed that simply because the Constitution exists that no one would violate it.
While many do believe that, I do not.
It would be like criminals not violating the law just because it exists.

We all know how that works.

You were referring to much of the propaganda going on during the Vietnam War (I know, Police Action), I do believe.

[The Stig]

Folks, while I agree with most everything being posted we're swerving way off into politics.

Please find a way to tie this back into your prepping activities in some way.

Thanks for your understanding.....

[ladyhk13]

Gunfixr I wasn't thinking any of us would be in that position but those of a different mind who are now the majority, I consider us the minority.
Stig, I think that at the speed in which our country and it's policies have been changing away from the founding fathers and towards a one world mindset is having a direct impact on our finances and should we be taking our money out of the banks? Should we be buying gold and silver instead? We are being forced to take our corn and put it in gas tanks instead of our tables and what is left we are sending overseas to feed the "hungry" all the while we have starving people right here and the prices of everything made with corn is skyrocketing...our government sees fit to take care of the world instead of our own people first so we must know what they are doing in order to take care of ourselves.
The gov't is creating an environment where the middle class is disappearing so how long do we really have before we cannot afford to buy the supplies we need to put things back? How long do we have to pay off all debt so when layoffs happen you won't lose your house and cars? How long is there before you are able to become as totally self suffiecient as you are planning to be wshtf? How can you plan if you don't know when something of great magnitude that could change your life happens? It's like buying a house and the mtg company saying "we'll give you a loan but we won't tell you for how many years until we get around to it," how could you possibly plan your future?

If this Treaty is signed, approved by a Democrat Senate (or once again use Executive Order) along with the appointment of Iran on the UN's committe that regulated conventional arms...that means' regular guns that come into our country. So with these 2 things, is there the slightest possibility that it could affect our ability to purchase guns? I don't know but it's just one more uncertainty that is coming into the picture that makes me want to prep harder. To sell this house, to get the other one built, to keep canning, to store more meds and supplies, to buy more material to sew, to buy more ammo, to get a 500 gallon gas tank and propane tank and get them filled as fast as possible, to get our animals for food going, and pay for all of this as we go so we don't get into debt. BUT, how long do we have with what is going on in the world and our country?
That is what scares me. I feel very insecure as to how to prepare for this. If things are going to be as bad as I think they are going to be from this administration, how do you know how much you need? How do you figure out how much food to stock up on for a year? I have no clue how to figure these out but know that something is coming down the pike and feel unprepared.

[Gunfixr]

Ok, cool. This black and white print thing sometimes makes it tough.

On the rest, you are at a very valid point.
For instance, our preps here have pretty much come to a standstill, and have been on hold for awhile now. We have been forced to use some of it, although very little. As many may remember, last winter my wife got sick. Well, she has Fibromyalgia for certain. They're looking at Lupus, possibly Gout. These three often go hand in hand. While she has been back at work, she is only working 20hrs a week. The doc wants her to slowly increase, hoping to achieve fulltime, but at work they could care less, and don't follow the docs recommendations, so she is constantly overextended, and set back, keeping her from being able to get the doc to clear her for more hours. I get paid by the job, and have been pushing hard to get more jobs done, but there are only so many hours in a day. My dad has been helping out financially now for the last 6 months, and right now, there's no end in sight. If I want to buy something anymore, I need to sell something to make it happen.
I could quit gunsmithing, go back to being a machinist, probably make more money, but the stress makes me unlivable, according to my wife, so she doesn't want me to. Even so, I've been out of it for almost 5yrs now, and with the current unemployment rate, how long might it take to even find a job? This area has always been tough for shop jobs, even in good times, as there is a large shipyard constantly hiring and laying off machinists. They're a dime a dozen around here.
Now, we're racking up serious medical bills. My wife has an almost standing appointment with the doc every 2 weeks, prescriptions are added or changed constantly. And yes, we have insurance.
So this, along with everything else political that has screwed up, and continues to make worse the economy, has already affected us.

[DarkLight]

Gunfixr-you have my condolences. We have been dealing with fibro and what my wife has come to call "whatever the hell else is wrong with her" for almost 6 years. It's no fun and a daily struggle. We were blessed to find a Dr that listens and is willing to treat someone in chronic pain but is also willing to help look for whatever else may be wrong. I'll pm you a few things we've found.

Hang in there man.

[helomech]

At first my wife was diagnosed with Fibro also, but that was dropped when she was diagnosed with MS. Her MS was getting real bad (bed ridden for months at a time). 6 years ago we moved from south Louisiana to east Texas and she has not had a single issue or flare up since. Doctors don't know why, but she is back to doing everything she could do when she was younger. I believe that there was something in our old house that was causing the flare ups. Probably mold if I had to guess.

[NWPilgrim]

I don't think they plan to take away our guns in the near term. What they want is to stop future sales and dry up the market and then chip away. While many individuals would not comply with confiscation, most FFLs will have to comply with any BS exec order or regulation. The feds are going after the gun business right now not the gun owners (just as F&F tried to do).

[mitunnelrat]

I've done a lot of reading on this now, and I agree with NWPilgrim on this.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2012/07/10/the-u-n-arms-trade-treaty-are-our-2nd-amendment-rights-part-of-the-deal/

The Obama administration is actively engaged in negotiations to finalize details for a new global agreement premised to fight “terrorism”, “insurgency” and “international crime syndicates”. As U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-Moon describes its purpose, “Our goal is clear: a robust and legally binding Arms Trade Treaty that will have a real impact on the lives of those millions of people suffering from consequences of armed conflict, repression and armed violence…It is ambitious, but it is achievable.”

Foreign ministers of the U.K., France, Germany and Sweden want the treaty to cover all types of conventional weapons, notably including small arms and light weapons, all types of munitions, and related technologies. They also advocate that it include strong provisions governing human rights, international humanitarian law and sustainable development. (More about sustainable development later.)

Democrats have accused Republicans of making this a political issue, maintaining that the treaty poses no Second Amendment threat. Others, such as former U.N. ambassador John Bolton, caution gun owners to take this initiative seriously. He believes that the U.N. “is trying to act as though this is really just a treaty about international arms trade between nation states, but there is no doubt that the real agenda here is domestic firearms control.”

So let’s review some recent history and see if gun owners and other Second Amendment defenders might have very good reasons to take issue with this treaty. Actually, we don’t have to look back very far at all.

Consider the Fast and Furious debacle, an operation that was represented to be all about targeting bad guys who are committing violent crimes on both sides of our border with Mexico. There can be no remaining doubt that the program was really aimed at border gun shops and their right to conduct legal civilian firearms sales.

Remember that sustainable development agenda mentioned earlier that the European foreign ministers want to incorporate into the treaty provisions? Originally intended to be implemented in connection with a U.N. treaty, an “Agenda 21” plan was enacted as a soft law in 1993 creating a nongovernmental organization, the “International Council for Local Environmental Initiatives” (ICLEI), by Executive Order after the Clinton administration was unsuccessful in getting Congress to ratify the program. They wouldn’t approve the treaty because it would transfer massive regulatory control over broad aspects of U.S. energy production and consumption. In 2003 the NGO’s name was changed to “ICLEI- Local Governments for Sustainability” to emphasize “local” and diminish concerns about “international” influence and associations with U.N. political and financial ties. ICLEI’s are now active in most of our counties On its web page, “ICLEI: Connecting Leaders”, the organization explains that their networking strategy connects cities and local governments to the United Nations and other international bodies.

Agenda 21 envisions a global scheme for healthcare, education, nutrition, agriculture, labor, production, and consumption. A summary version titled AGENDA 21: The Earth Summit Strategy to Save Our Planet (Earthpress, 1993), calls for “…a profound reorientation of all human society, unlike anything the world has ever experienced—a major shift in the priorities of both governments and individuals and an unprecedented redeployment of human and financial resources.” The report emphasizes that “This shift will demand a concern for the environmental consequences of every human action be integrated into individual and collective decision-making at every level.”

ICLEI’s web page states that its Local Agenda 21 [LA21] Model Communities Programme is “designed to aid local governments in implementing Chapter 28 of Agenda 21, the global action plan for sustainable development.” As Gary Lawrence, a planner for the city of Seattle and an advisor to the Clinton-Gore administration’s Council on Sustainable Development and to U.S. AID commented at a 1998 U.N. Environmental Development Forum in London titled “The Future of Local Agenda 21 in the New Millennium”, “In some cases, LA21 is seen as an attack on the power of the nation-state.” He went on to say, “Participating in a U.N. advocated planning process will very likely bring out many…who would work to defeat any elected official…undertaking Local Agenda 21 …So we will call our process something else, such as comprehensive planning, growth management or smart growth.”

And so they have. “Comprehensive planning”, “growth management” and “smart growth” (which is Agenda 21 with a new name). All mean pretty much the same thing… centralized control over virtually every aspect of urban life: energy and water use, housing stock and allocation, population levels, public health and dietary regimens, resources and recycling, “social justice” and education.

So this time the U.N.-sponsored ATT initiative, whether enacted by Congress or through a soft law Executive Order, can be expected to receive an appealing identity as well. Most likely it will purport to protect us from “terrorism”, “insurgency” and/or “international crime syndicates”. Perhaps, without saying so, it will be pitched to protect us even from ourselves.

The article was well written and tied things up very well in my eyes. It lends credence to NWP's position. Gun bans and control would be political suicide right now, but regulating ammunition manufacturing and sales would allow the new supply to be reduced and halted over time. Its but a first step. How that relates to prepping for me is in what I expect will be rising costs and reduced availability. Its something we'll need to adapt to, because it seems clear to me now this can be passed and applied in the US.

[bacpacker]

Your DEAD ON MIT! If you look back just a little, there are a lot of gun and ammo manufactures that have merged into just a hand full of companies. The pool is much smaller than it was 5 years ago. I would be willing to bet that some of the owners now, if you look deeply into corporate levels, are folks who would love to see major gun control take place.

[Grumpy Old Man]

^^^^ What he said. Look up Cerebus Corp.

[Stormfeather]

I've done a lot of reading on this now, and I agree with NWPilgrim on this.
The article was well written and tied things up very well in my eyes. It lends credence to NWP's position. Gun bans and control would be political suicide right now, but regulating ammunition manufacturing and sales would allow the new supply to be reduced and halted over time. Its but a first step. How that relates to prepping for me is in what I expect will be rising costs and reduced availability. Its something we'll need to adapt to, because it seems clear to me now this can be passed and applied in the US.

With all the happenings in Colorado, and tougher gun laws now being pushed to the headlines, theres alot more folks jumping on the anti-gun bandwagon, just look at all the yahoo headlines on their main page for proof of that. Im beginning to think it wouldnt be the political suicide that many thought it would be.

[eagle326]

With all the happenings in Colorado, and tougher gun laws now being pushed to the headlines, theres alot more folks jumping on the anti-gun bandwagon, just look at all the yahoo headlines on their main page for proof of that. Im beginning to think it wouldnt be the political suicide that many thought it would be.


The sheep will always follow the shepard blindly not taking time or common sense to see the wolf in sheep's clothing. There are many things about this event that makes me go Hmmm.

[Stormfeather]

You know, it seems like every time that there is a threat of anti-gun legislation that seems to be looming on the horizon, all of a sudden, there is a event of tragically epic proportions that seem to push it over the edge with a knee jerk reaction. Its almost gotten to the point, where you have to expect a tragic event to happen every time we start hearing about anti-gun legislation. Or am I the only one to notice this?

[bacpacker]

Your not alone brother. This happens way to often.

Can anyone tell me how a pretty intelligent person, who has passed one of the most difficult major's there is well enough to be in a PH.d program. He apparently was really good at it, can within the period of 1 month drop out of school for no apparent reason, go so far off the deep end he can't even gain access to a shooting range, then build out a booby trapped apartment, and go out and kill all the folks. Then he just stops and goes out to wait on the cops to arrest him. And then he gives up the fact his apartment is rigged?

How does that turn on all at once?

[Gunfixr]

What was it that Rahm Emmanuel said?

"Never let a tragedy go to waste."

It's highly unlikely that anybody will go door to door confiscating guns, it would be a huge fight, and they don't want to die any more than we do.
It'll be more surreptitious than that. Tax ammo out of availability would be good. I could list others, but they could be construed as tinfoil.

[The Stig]

You are not alone Stormfeather.

From a prepping aspect the tragedy in Aurora means a number of things for me. Chief amongst them is that I need to order in more ammo.

[Grumpy Old Man]

I would say part of being prepared is maintaining situational awareness. And part of situational awareness is assessing what political actions are likely to impact. I agree with what you said Stig, but I would go one step further and say pay cash. Also learn to reload and each paycheck buy some components.

[tompnoid]

As a man a father and a guy who came from the bottom of the bucket. These things worry me my family spent 60 years building this country working in the factories serving in the military and bringing up thier families. The world has changed drastically in the past 15 years and today where are we worried we may wake up homeless in the land our fathers conquered. I mean at what point do we become proactive and stop being reactive? i don't know i am getting nervous i been shot stabbed ran over locked up left for dead beaten by the police tell you liek this i will not surrender its that simple they can come get em and ill give them it one bullet one slug one lick at a time.

- - - Updated - - -


You know, it seems like every time that there is a threat of anti-gun legislation that seems to be looming on the horizon, all of a sudden, there is a event of tragically epic proportions that seem to push it over the edge with a knee jerk reaction. Its almost gotten to the point, where you have to expect a tragic event to happen every time we start hearing about anti-gun legislation. Or am I the only one to notice this?



its all set up man the government cannot be trusted this dude out in colorado was a full set up

[The Stig]

Tompnoid,

While I appreciate the struggles you've faced in your life, and agree about the direction of the country, you may want to review the rules available in THIS (http://www.shtfready.com/threads/1-Forum-Rules-Please-Read-and-Understand) thread. Item 11 may be of interest to you but I'd invite you to pay particular attention to item 3.

The rules are in place for very specific reasons and are meant to protect you, the colony as a whole along with this website.

Thank you for your understanding.

Stig

[Stg1swret]

WASHINGTON – A bipartisan group of 51 senators is threatening to oppose a global treaty regulating international weapons trade if it falls short in protecting the constitutional right to bear arms, as the United Nations bumps up against a Friday deadline for action.

In a letter to President Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, the senators expressed serious concerns with the draft treaty that has circulated at the United Nations, saying that it signals an expansion of gun control that would be unacceptable.

"Our country's sovereignty and the constitutional protection of these individual freedoms must not be infringed," they wrote.

A revised draft that circulated late Thursday of the treaty, though, raised hopes from supporters and the British government, which has been the leading proponent, that an historic agreement could be reached by Friday's deadline.

The draft closed several loopholes in the original text, though the Washington-based Arms Control Association said further improvements are still needed to strengthen measures against illicit arms transfers.

A spokesman for Britain's U.N. Mission, speaking anonymously because he was not authorized to speak publicly, said the new text is "a substantial improvement" and "an historic agreement that effectively regulates the international trade in conventional arms is now very close."

The estimated $60 billion international arms trade is unregulated, though countries including the U.S. have their own rules on exports.

Opponents in the U.S. have portrayed the treaty as a surrender of gun ownership rights enshrined in the U.S. Constitution. The issue of gun control has re-emerged since last week's shooting at a Colorado cinema killed 12 people

Supporters of a treaty say it will not affect law-abiding individual gun owners, but would close loopholes that allow arms dealers to evade the strict laws that already exist in countries and transfer guns through weaker states.

The U.N. General Assembly voted in December 2006 to work toward a treaty regulating the growing arms trade, with the U.S. casting a "no" vote. In October 2009, the Obama administration reversed the Bush administration's position and supported an assembly resolution to hold four preparatory meetings and a four-week U.N. conference in 2012 to draft an arms trade treaty.

Widney Brown, senior director for law and policy at Amnesty International, said the latest draft closed "some of the significant loopholes that we were concerned about have if not been closed, definitely been narrowed."

It would require all countries to establish national regulations to control the transfer of conventional arms and to regulate arms brokers, and would prohibit states that ratify the treaty from transferring conventional weapons that violate arms embargoes or facilitate acts of genocide, crimes against humanity or war crimes.

In considering whether to authorize the export of arms, the draft says a country must evaluate whether the weapon would be used to violate international human rights or humanitarian laws or be used by terrorists or organized crime -- and if there is "a substantial risk" the treaty would prohibit the transfer.

The new draft makes clear that doesn't pertain only to arms exports but to all types of arms transfers, closing a loophole raised by campaigners.

The United States objected to any requirement to report on exports of ammunition and that remains out of the latest draft.

Daryl Kimball, executive director of the Arms Control Association, said that the new text would potentially allow states to exclude arms transfers that are not commercial sales, such as gifts, from review under the terms of the treaty and does not include a broad enough list of weapons to be covered.

He said it would also potentially allow states to exempt arms sales under previous defense cooperation agreements under the terms of the treaty. That could undermine another line of attack from opponents in the U.S. - that the treaty would prevent arms sales to allies like Israel and Taiwan.

"We urge the United States and other arms exporters and importers, including China, Russia, the U.K., and India, to work with other states, especially those most affected by violence fueled by illicit arms dealing, to provide the leadership and flexibility needed to reach a sound agreement by Friday's deadline," Kimball said.

With the conference scheduled to end on Friday, negotiators have been trying to come up with a text that satisfies advocates of a strong treaty with tough regulations and countries that appear to have little interest in a treaty including Syria, North Korea, Iran, Egypt and Algeria.



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/07/26/group-51-senators-voice-concerns-with-arms-treaty/#ixzz21ptD2MKF

Looks like if the wording is to there liking, these guys might cave. Not good for any gun owner in the U.S.

[Stormfeather]

Tompnoid, it cant help but feel that like that sometimes, im with ya there. You almost have to look at it and think. . . ok, heres the "ready. . ." theres the "set. . ." when is the hike?

[eagle326]

As a man a father and a guy who came from the bottom of the bucket. These things worry me my family spent 60 years building this country working in the factories serving in the military and bringing up thier families. The world has changed drastically in the past 15 years and today where are we worried we may wake up homeless in the land our fathers conquered. I mean at what point do we become proactive and stop being reactive? i don't know i am getting nervous i been shot stabbed ran over locked up left for dead beaten by the police tell you liek this i will not surrender its that simple they can come get em and ill give them it one bullet one slug one lick at a time.

- - - Updated - - -





its all set up man the government cannot be trusted this dude out in colorado was a full set up

Tompnoid ; I'm sure many ants in this colony have also come up from the bottom as you say. And that is a good thing for it taught us that we don't need much of anything to live happy.
Waking up homeless happens even in good times due to many factors.
Every person on this site is pro-active to some extent. We all have our heads on a swivel and watch or read daily as to events happening. Plus any information any member shares with us.

There is no way in my opinion to be able to pick or figure out exactly when it will happen if it happens at all. But we prepare as though it will. My thoughts are there is no reason to worry because whatever happens will probably catch us by surprise to a certain extent anyway. We cannot afford to be pro-active to the point of causing a flare up. Our job is to live as best we can and be ready if times get tough.

If we had a crystal ball or something to see ahead we could make life easier. But life is journey into the unknown every day we live and we can only do our best to navigate it's many twist and turns.
They who are patient and study the moves of others most likely gain the advantage in most situations in life.
I guess the best way I know to put it is ; You have 100's of eyes and ears on this site keeping a watch on your 6 just so you can relax a little and do what you can without too much worry.

I hope this helps you a little.

[The Stig]

Alright folks...I think we've all had our say on this one. Write your congress-critters and keep your eye on this one. If it's actually signed by the US and ratified by the Senate I'll be glad to reopen this one.

For now there's not much more to say other than to discuss the political aspects of the whole thing and we're obviously not going to do that.