How are you going to raise your animals during SHTF?

[ladyhk13]

When shtf and the stores shut down, you run out of feed for your horses, cows, alpacas, chickens, cats, dogs and whatever else you have been raising how do you plan on feeding them? Have you made plans to grow food? If you have dogs and cats have you thought about flea and tick control?
Please don't answer with things like "I'll just eat them, or they'll be on their own" or stuff like that. This is a serious question since these animals will be our food (and re-bred for future food), milk, eggs, and the cats are not only pets but will be mouse/rat control which in turn will help keep down disease, dogs are our pets but also provide protection and to those with no family are a source of comfort and companionship.

Even though we don't have animals yet (except a cat and dogs) we are working on getting the new property ready so that we can have a working farm so I have been planning on going as natural as possible. These are my thoughts so far and I would love everyone else's input and ideas as well because I know I don't have all the answers or knowledge it's going to take. We will be building as if shtf when it comes to the animals as much as possible so there won't be any surprises when/if it happens.

As far as cows and most grass eating animals (NOT horses) I am looking at Switchgrass for the pasture. It seems to have very high nutritional value and will yeild many tons of hay per acre when cut. The won't be getting any grain at all.

For horses there needs to be a different blend so I am still looking into which will be best for them. I also don't know about growing oats? What would you do about no feed available for them? How much acreage is going to be needed in order to grow oats for 2 horses for daily feeding? I don't know much about feeding them off grid but I hope someone here can answer this.

Chickens - I plan on free ranging them. They can eat in the Switchgrass or the horse pasture I don't imagine it would make a difference, they would both be good healthy pasture. I can give them non-meat table scraps and ground up egg shells instead of store bought and I believe that would be enough for them, am I correct?

Cats are natural hunters so for them to eat would be fairly easy but I am buying extra cat food and it will be either in sealed tubs or in bags that I've done in the sucky machine. I also have been buying an extra flea/tick treatment a month to put back.

Dogs will be harder to feed since they aren't really natural hunters. Buying an extra bag of food each time you get the normal bag is a biggie. That also will be in tubs or in bags sealed in the sucky machine (those sizes are so much easier if you are on the go). When that runs out they will be eating whatever we eat. Have been buying an extra heart/flea/tick medications each month as well. This is done so that when they are no longer available those things are still able to be kept under control. The flea/tick med only need to be given during the summer months so during the winter I can keep those extra packs. If I can get enough to last a couple of years hopefully whatever event will have passed and our "world" will have returned to somewhat normal. If not, well I guess I'll be trying to barter someone for some ginea hens (dh will totally hate it but not as much as I hate ticks so I think I'll win that one lol).

Ok, please give me your input and ideas.

[Sniper-T]

couple things...

EAT them!!

lol, just kidding LH. ;)

Seriously, my dog will continue per nauseum, as long as possible. He has dry food, which we supplement with table scraps. He also gets the bones/scraps from anything I kill. when the time comes that there is no more dogfood, and if I cannot support him, a difficult choice will have to be made. But dogs will typically eat almost anyhting you put in front of them, so I am not anticipating too much difficulty. I have a couple spare tick collars around, but no other meds specific to him.

My cat is type 2 diabetic, and her insulin will run out long before her food, but I also subsidize her meals with table scraps/tidbits. She will quickly become an outdoor cat, as she would be able to catch a lions share of mice/moles/voles.

I'm working at putting in some feeder crops, but wont be online with those until next year. If I can snag a cow or 3, they'll free range, as I have the room for that. Horses would do the same if I got them, but they could be subsidized from neighbours crop fields (where I would be collecting from too) Horses eat an immense amount of food, so accepting them into my fold would be a tough decision. I would have to have a serious need for the work they could provide, before I'd undertake their keeping.


Be careful with Oats. You cannot give horses too much or they'll bloat and die.

I can snag some chickens from a neighbour, and they'll be free ranged in a tractor (keep the coyotes out), and can be subsidized by what is convenient.

Raising animals wouldn't be high on my list of things to do post SHTF. They require a tremendous amount of space, effort and resources, for a limited return. I believe that my time would be better suited raising crops, and hunting for my protein. IMO

[ladyhk13]

So you will be one of the people basically living out in the "wild" sort of speak so you won't be really worrying about dealing with animals.

I was hoping not to have to give any supplimental food to the horses at all. But I was told that if you are riding them they must have more than just grass/hay because they are burning up too many calories. We are looking at a couple of them for use around the property instead of 4 wheelers and transportation if it comes to where automobiles cannot be used for whatever reason.

[Sniper-T]

actually... I currently do live out in the wild. I can and do shoot food (and targets) in my yard, off my deck, or on any of my miles of trails/bush. I am surrounded by bush, and some pasture land, and within a few miles corn/alfalfa, wheat, sunflowers, etc. I have a neighbour (2-1/2 miles away), that raises chickens and keeps offering me some; and another neighbour(4 miles away) that has a dairy farm that will not be able to operate without power. He plans on releasing all but a few of his cows if SHTF. I have two hog farms within 5 miles, who also plan on releasing. I dare say, there will be an abundance of anuimals initially, when SHTF. If some can be encouraged back within my fences, I'm ok with that. I also run some traps in season for easy eating/furs.

You do have to supplement horses forage but just be cautious on how much oats. I'm sure Grumpy can provide more information than that as to how much of what is best.

[Possom]

It all depends on what u r wanting to keep honestly. Goats are easier to maintain then cattle. Require less acreage and will eat about anything you put in front of them. Roughly, you can pasture 7 goats on the same amount of pasture needed to maintain one cow The problem with cattle is the amount of meat yielded out of one animal. What are you going to do with at least 500 lbs of meat without a freezer to store it in? Salt it all in barrels? Where as a goat will yield 80 lbs of meat or so. Much easier to pressure can or salt and store. Chickens are pretty well self sustaining during the summer although you need to keep an eye out for predators.

As for winter maintenance of livestock. Hay was put up for years and years before the tractor came into use. Old style hand bailors and rakes and mowers were horse drawn. Now they are yard ornaments.

You would be amazed what you can accomplish with a good team of mules and a little know how.

[Evolver]

For dogs there are many different food recipes made from items that would be found in your preps... Carbohydrates (rice, oatmeal and other grains), meat, and cooked, rehydrated vegetables mixed in equal amounts. Most recommend using one teaspoon of calcium or bonemeal powder (800 to 1,000 mg) for every pound of food. Other supplements may include fish oil, vitamin E and kelp and alfalfa powder.
Items to avoid are...

Chocolate
Any candy containing the sweetener Xylitol
Grapes and raisins
Macadamia nuts and walnuts
Moldy foods
Mushrooms
Mustard seeds
Onions and onion powder
Garlic (raw, cooked, and powdered)
Yeast dough

If S ever HTF our pets will need to be introduced into the wild slowing so there systems aren't in a full on shock from a change in they're normal diet so having a tried pet food recipe is good to have.

[ladyhk13]

That's what I meant about being "one of the people" living out in the wild (you will probably be the only one lol! You are kind of an unique person in that you do live off of what you hunt already and don't need or are planning on raising any animals unless they come to you. But you did say you are going to put in fodder crop, what kind are you planting and is it for a specific animal or animals? If you do get the neighbors cows, hogs, horses to come to your place and inside of your fences I imagine you would not let them back out? Should this happen what are your plans for feeding them? Hogs eat everything down to the dirt so have you thought about how you would deal with any kind of rotation or a specific kind of grasses you can plant that maybe they will have a harder time going through so it would buy you time for longer rotation?
Just questions for deeper thinking.

[Grumpy Old Man]

For horses, Bermuda grass and alfalfa mix is good. DON"T let the horses graze green alfalfa! Alfalfa is high protein. Just because you are riding your horses doesn't mean they need to be grained. If you are working them daily, riding 5 or more miles daily, running endurance races, etc, then you may want to consider oats, but be careful, overfeeding can lead to them foundering. People tend to forget that horses lived for millions of years grazing with the only grain coming from wild seed heads. Barley and maize can also be fed as a cool mix for working horses.

Check the ingredients of the feed next time you're at the feed store. Some things you won't be able to get like beet pulp or rice bran; others like flax seed you can. Apples and carrots are always good too, but they are more treat items than a major diet component.

[Taz Baby]

Well as far as animals go we are going to only raise the ones that can eat off the land. Like Rabbits,(trap and breed) goats, squirrel(trap and breed), mini jerseys that will be grass feed, dogs can eat what we hunt, cats to. As far as the meds go for them there are a number of plants that you can use to keep fleas and ticks off, for Heart worms we will stock up on. But when that runs out feed your dog a raw fish once a month it keeps all worms away. Chickens, ducks, geese, will be free range and any other bird like wild animal we can trap like:: fowls, pheasants, grouse, ect or any animal will eat what they have been in the wild. As far as the meds for the cows, there are a number of things that are plant based that can cure them. But right now we are not ready for animals.

[ladyhk13]

As for winter maintenance of livestock. Hay was put up for years and years before the tractor came into use. Old style hand bailors and rakes and mowers were horse drawn. Now they are yard ornaments.

You would be amazed what you can accomplish with a good team of mules and a little know how.

If you could find a good video on technique it would be wonderful! This is the kind of stuff I'm talking about...if we have to go back to the old ways, what are those old ways - how exactly are we going to do it? We know they used to feed animals differently but how they did it is the info we need to share here. The tools are out there somewhere but are there things we need to be looking for now that they are so old? I know there are some here who are experimenting with wheat (but I wouldn't imagine you would feed that to your animals) using hand tools so maybe they can give a review of the old ones that work and ones to stay away from or that require special techniques/care.

[Sniper-T]

The fodder crops I plan on planting are basically for the critters that already exist, just to encourage them to stay a little closer to home, and to fatten them up a little for hunting season. If I can encourage any livestock to come stay, it will be controlled. I wont herd in 100 cows, or a 100 pigs, because then my land would be razed within a couple/few years. But Noah rebuilt the world with none but 2 of each, So that is a good place to start. maybe a couple extras for the smokehouse/canning jars.

A few things that I intend on planting will be: Oats, Alfalfa, winter wheat, pumpkins, peas, potatoes, zuchini, barley, corn...

I know from experience, that in my area, these are some favoured eats for critters like: deer, bear, rabbits, chickens, racoons, and of course... me!

Now these will just be hand sown into some areas that I am prepping, mostly in the back 40, but I have enough fencing that I can temporarily section off the areas to limit access, and then as the things start producing, open the areas up in stages to allow the animals partial access, and allow me to harvest what I need mostly unbothered.

For instance:

___________
|..1..2..3..4..|
|..1..2..3..4..|
|..1..2..3..4..|
|_1_2_3_4__|

picture that as a fenced in crop, once everything is up and growing, I partially harvest the area to the left of the ones, and then move the fence from the left, to the ones. Then a while later, harvest from the 1's to the 2's, and then move the fence to the 2's. This way, the animals are getting a share of the goodies, but shouldn't be too aggressive in forcing their way in. I would keep as much as I needed for the next couple years seedings, can/put up whatever I could, and use the rest for domestic/wild animals that might stop by. ;)

I have a friend that uses pigs to break bush land. he simply runs a small electric fence around some trees(say a 20'square) insulated and shielded, of course, and runs that with a battery/solar. he puts 2 weanlings in in the spring, and by the time fall comes around, the area is destroyed right down to the dirt. They'll even eat the trees if he lets them. He butchers in the fall, and replaces them in the spring, which might work for a season or three, but obviously not long term. But then I would need an elaborate set up to try to over winter hogs or cattle, I might be able to in a shed for one year, but then it would be done. With a windbreak, and enough food, horses can survive outside for the winter, but cows and hogs cannot. I could move the chicken tractor into the garage for the winter, and they'd be fine as long as I have enough feed to keep them.

If SHTF in a serious way, there would be an abundance of crops available for the first year or two, as there is usually enough droppage from the equipment to get a fair amount growing the next year, (assuming SHTF after harvest) If it is before, there wouldn't be enough time to harvest/process all that is available. Each subsequent year, the 'free growth fields would diminish, as weeds and wild grasses took over, but by then I would have enough harvested to maintain my own needs indefinately.

[ladyhk13]

For horses, Bermuda grass and alfalfa mix is good. DON"T let the horses graze green alfalfa! Alfalfa is high protein. Just because you are riding your horses doesn't mean they need to be grained. If you are working them daily, riding 5 or more miles daily, running endurance races, etc, then you may want to consider oats, but be careful, overfeeding can lead to them foundering. People tend to forget that horses lived for millions of years grazing with the only grain coming from wild seed heads. Barley and maize can also be fed as a cool mix for working horses.

Check the ingredients of the feed next time you're at the feed store. Some things you won't be able to get like beet pulp or rice bran; others like flax seed you can. Apples and carrots are always good too, but they are more treat items than a major diet component.

That's kind of what I had been thinking because when we go to Reno we have gone out looking for the wild mustangs and they are eating sage brush and whatever they can find. So alfalfa should be planted only in the areas we plan on baling? What is a good daily grazing grass for them- I'm assuming we would need a blend of cool and warm weather grasses so to keep it green year round?

[ladyhk13]

mini jerseys . We are getting a pair of mini's for sure. They take up no space at all, will give less milk than a full sized cow (only 2 of us so we don't need so much), are easier on the grass, give birth easier that full sized as well. Already have a place to buy them lined up...just waiting for the land to be ready...*heavy sigh* have free horses when ready too..*heavy sigh*..have our place to buy our very large non cow animals lined up too *heavy sigh* ok, I'm depressed now.

[Possom]

Why do u need to plant grass? All my fields are a wild grass mix that my horses eat just fine. If u have established fields already I wouldn't mess with the wild grass it has growing on it. If you are clearing land and seeding it then you are much better off talking to your county extension agent about what grasses grow best in your area.

[Taz Baby]

Well you are ahead of me as for lining up places to get animals. We have a place to buy goats and a friend who has animals already that would be more than happy to share, but we have to go get them and they are a ways away. we have the land just not set up with shelter and fencing yet. As far as being depressed goes I have you beat hands down with the house deal

[Sniper-T]

It'll work out for ya Taz... keep the chin up!

http://i1241.photobucket.com/albums/gg518/lavernebunny11/hug-al.jpg

[ladyhk13]

Why do u need to plant grass? All my fields are a wild grass mix that my horses eat just fine. If u have established fields already I wouldn't mess with the wild grass it has growing on it. If you are clearing land and seeding it then you are much better off talking to your county extension agent about what grasses grow best in your area.

Because we bought 241 acres and almost all of it is wooded. So....we have to clear it and create pasture from scratch. I think we will talk to the Ag people but I also would like to know what all of you plan on doing with your animals in shtf scenario to keep them alive and healthy.

[LUNCHBOX]

LH, I forget what medical issue arises but having horses and cows in close proximity causes some type of eye parasite if I recall correctly.

You also asked about hay collection/removal/stocking, I think it was Izzy that said there were Amish in yr ao. Maybe pay them a visit and talk/question them if possible.

[ladyhk13]

Lunchbox the thing about diseases being transferred between species is a good thing for people to know when they are forced to bring animals closer to their homes in fear of zombies stealing them or worse. Great point!

[Possom]

Wasn't trying to be a smart ass about pasture land. Hope I didn't come off that way. All I was trying to say is that certain grasses grow better in certain climates. Wild grasses growing naturally hold up better then planted in my opinion. If you are clearing and planted might I suggest fencing your place to start with and turning goats loose on it. They are natural underbrush clearers. They prefer browsing briars and brush over grass.

As for a video of people running a hand bailor I have honestly never seen a video on it. We have a hand bailor and rake and mower but they aren't used. Just sit in the yard as decoration until a time comes when they are needed.

The easiest way to learn to do things like were done generations ago is to talk to older people. The amish are a good group of people to draw information from but they tend to be rather close knit and not very willing to share information with outsiders.

[bacpacker]

There is some good info being passed in this thread. Animals will be hugely important to survival in a long term scenario. That is the biggest reason I started with chickens last year. I knew I had a lot to learn/relearn about animal husbandry. With the hens we got this past Saturday, we are in pretty good shape to be able to have all the eggs we want and to start raising young both for meat and as replacement/expansion hens. We feed them scrap from the garden and table, plus they constantly chase bugs/insects, and we supplement with a cracked corn mix. I have been raising corn and wheat to use as a long term feed. We built the coop big enough to increase the flock to 30-40 hens and enough land to open our fenced lot up to an acre or more which would pretty much be free range.

Cows on the other hand are the other animal I'm most familiar with. Around here a full size cow (Angus/Herford) require about 2 acres of land for feed. 1 Acre to pasture on, 1 acre for hay. Multiply that by the number you will be running. From what research I have done recently it seems that a lot of current farmers are fencing off their pasture into smaller lots (5 acres for 20 head for example) and rotating them thru an area every few days. The theory behind this is that they will eat down the area and drop their fertilize and then left alone for a period of time to rejuvinate before running the cows back again later. By constantly rotating the herd you cut back on parasites, keep a good stand of grass growing, and keep the cattle well fed. The same principles apply to sheep and goats for pasture.

For haying, I have picked up a good McCormick horse drawn mowing machine, my grandpa's old dump rake, pitchforks, and a trailer. I spent many a summer day helping one of my grandpa's get up hay this way. It is hard work, time consuming, but is very effective.

I don't know anyone around here that raise sheep, but I do goats and will most likely try and pick up 2-3 ASAP if shits starts running downhill. My neighbor has a couple of horses and I will try and get them, along with pasture rights when things get bad. One thing that bugs me to this day. My uncle raised tobacco and would not allow a tractor on his plot. he always used horses and mules to work the land. I never worked with him and that is really haunting me now days as time are starting to look worse. That would have been valuable knowledge.

We used to grow oats for hay, along with soybeans, alfalfa, timothy, and fescue for winter hay for the cattle. Never having worked horses, I would venture a guess that everything but the fescue would work for them. just limit the oat seed and any green plants. I do know they can founder easily.
Fencing and shelter would be my two biggest obstacles.

[Possom]

Fescue really isn't all that appealing to a horse. If they have a choice they will pick around it. Clover isn't a good idea either. It makes them get all frothy mouthed and isn't good for their gut.

Fescue fed to goats is a great idea if you want dead goats. The plant itself is toxic to an extent but is not going to cause too many problems if mixed with other grasses. All things in moderation right. The fescue seed is where the major toxin is. You never want goats or sheep eating fescue that has gone to seed. It causes all kinds of issues and leads to a very ugly death

[bacpacker]

Good info about the fescue. Like i mentioned i have only dealt with cattle and we fed them a mix of evrything from alfalfa to clover to soybeans and oats to fescue. I never had a chance to work horses, sheep, or goats. I did realize their systems were quite different. I guess that means more type seeds need to be stored for future crop use.

[Grumpy Old Man]

Timothy and brome are common in the midwest, not so much out here. Your county agent is the best source for info specific to your area. I know my Arabian loves nothing better than ragweed! Goats and horses go well together, as goats will get the same diseases as horses but die first. At least that's what an old cowboy I respect told me, and he always had several boer nannies with his ponies.

[Onestep]

Lady, have you thought about a small lake on your property? That would supply you with much needed protein and also provide chickens hogs and your dog and cat with the same. The carcasses the hogs would take care of.
From what I've read in the past, they let the hogs loose to feed of the land as they will eat just about anything.
We eat mostly venison and 3 -4 deer will supply the 2 of us with all the meat we need for a year.
Problem will be that everyone will be hunting all game once it hits. That will reduce the wildlife population quickly.
Sorry, got little side tracked.

[Grumpy Old Man]

One thing to consider about hunting, especially where you are in TN, is feral hogs. I've hunted them for sport and they are quite tasty, although the meat can taste a little gamey the next day if you have leftovers. Plus you can build a hog trap to round up a few at a time. You'll probably want to keep on top of them as they can destroy a whole lot of crop in short order.

[Sniper-T]

^ yep yep!

We have them too, but in smaller numbers. BUT!!! If every major hog farmer throws his doors open after SHTF, there is going to be a whole lot of them EVERYWHERE! They plus the other, now released, livestock are going to greatly out number the wildlife population in short order. And at least in the beginning, they are not going to be scared of humans, and will be wanting to hang around houses/farms, etc. Fences will be needed as much to keep unwanted animals out, as to keep wanted ones in.

A few hundred cows or pigs, wandering through your location is going to wreak serious havoc on your gardens, trees, water, etc!

[Evolver]

Crank up the canners!!! :) Food for years!

[bacpacker]

If you have enough jars. Around here back in the 1700-1800's the farmers would build fencing around their food and grain plots, let the livestock run everywhere else.

There are a shit load of hogs here, but there is a long season and they have been reduced quite a bit the last 15 years from where they were.

[ladyhk13]

I want to reply to several but have company so will do so soon

[ladyhk13]

Ok, I'm back. I got some info from a seed company and in our zone which covers several states (TN, KY, VA, and I know there were more on the map but I can't remember them all right now) here is the mix he suggested for horses: Indiangrass (Sorghastrum nutans), Perennial ryegrass (Lolium perenne), Big bluestem (Andropogon gerardii), and
Indiangrass (Sorghastrum nutans).
For cows you can use all of the above and add Switchgrass (Panicum virgatum) to the mix.

Onestep: Yes, we will be making several spring fed ponds for the animals so watering won't be an issue. We have lots of water (creeks, springs, waterfalls...even in this drought the water is still flowing).

We won't be putting any goats, pigs or sheep on the property. Dh hates them all. We are being very specific as to what we are putting there and only what we will be consuming. Plus, you can't just put goats out and leave them to clear land. They must have feed and also shelter. I spoke with a woman who is an expert a while back and there are diseases with them that can make them very sick as well. They are not an animal we can just dump out there especially since we don't live on the property right now.

Ok guys. I didn't create this thread to only talk about me and our property. I wanted to know about what everyone else was going to do with taking care of their animals after shtf. What happens when there is no more electric, gasoline, co-ops to go buy feed, vets to get your flea and tic meds and heart worm pills for your cat's and dogs? Yes I want to learn from all of you but I am not looking for ya'll to go out of your way to try and figure out what I should do on our property (although I do appreciate it and do take your ideas and file them for later use). I hope you will really think about how you will be taking care of these animals that are going to be wandering onto your property. I know that we have to plant pasture and it will take 2-3 years for it to mature enough for animals to be grazing full time. Thank goodness for a bulldozer.
I really want your ideas of what you are going to do in your own lives and try to not make this thread so much about me. :) Does this make sense? Sometimes I get my brain confused with my typing.

[Sniper-T]

LH, if you can get a few cows on there soon, they'll do the clearing for you. fence off an acre, or better yet, two, one acre plots side by side. put the cattle in one, and let them browse for a month or so, then move them into th other. This will give each successive plot a chance to catch up with the grasses/undergrowth. Cows have sharp hooves, and especially when it is wet, they sink into the ground, and will cut/nick/tear the tree roots. As time goes on, you'll start finding more and more trees standing dead (perfect for firewood). cut them down, and keep rotating the cattle/horses, until the land is appropriately broken, then fence off another couple areas and continue on. you may need the dozer for a fraction of the time to rip out some stumps and level it for planting, but the gruntwork will be done, and without you wasting time/fuel.

[realist]

We have property up north that I am beginning to develop slowly but surely. The one big thing that I am doing is building fences, perimeter and then cross fencing. This fencing will be stout in order to keep out wild hogs. One thing that I have learned about wild hogs is that they can clean out a garden in no time. I will have higher fencing around an area that will be for garden and orchard. This way I will have it in place when I need it.

What animals am I looking at if the SHTF is goats? We raised them when I was little. We lived on their milk for a period when times were tight. We never did much with them, meat wise. It wasn’t till later that I ate goat meat, it was great. My sister and brother-in-law have some goats now and they are great for clearing the brush around their property. However they originally got into them because they were not going to be much work, they say that is wrong, so I will learn by their mistakes.

Chickens are another animal that we will have. We used to raise a variety of chickens and some were Bantams. The Bantams are much smaller than our others but they were survivors. I figure I would let some of these run wild and could harvest them when needed. The nice thing about these is they keep down the bugs. We would have other chickens for eggs and meat.

The majority of property that we have is real steep so hay is out. I will be developing the more accessible areas into as much pasture land as possible. So for this reason horses and cattle are out since I would not be able to feed the way I would like.

[Sniper-T]

What is to keep the Bantams around your place at all? wouldn't they just move off and be gone? What about predator control? how will they survive?

It is a lot easier to control hogs (wild or tame) with an electric fence, than with anything else. They don't take too kindly to getting that big flat wet nose zapped!

[realist]

Bantams are really tough. At our old place they stayed around the house because that was were the was more food, we never fed them. Ours survived feral cats, hawks, raccoons and opossums so I figure they would make it were we were at. The big thing is they roost in trees at night so that helped their survival rate.

As for the electric fence I do not want to rely on anything like that since I do not have electricity to the property because it is too rural and would cost too much. I have not looked into a solar electric fence but I figure that if I set it up with hog wire then I will be set. That is how we used to keep them out.

[bacpacker]

Check tractor supply for solar electric chargers. You can get 2 models under $150 IIRC that will do 3 miles or better. I am set up to run 2 wires around the chicken lot, and 2 of 3 garden spots with one.

[ladyhk13]

I did not know that Bantams roosted in the trees. This is very interesting. Where do they lay their eggs or are they meat only chickens?