REVOLUTION TV series Q&A

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

OK gang, scenario time! These clowns showed up at your house, smelled then saw your buck hanging in the front yard tree (first mistake you can't change this). Martial law dictates No citizen shall possess any firearms unless it is a primitive weapon, i.e, bow, cross bow, sword , knife, etc. Obviously by the wounds you blasted this here buck with 00 buck. The "man" demands your shotgun. Now what? You're out numbered 25 to 1, DID YOU PREPARE FOR THIS SITUATION? If so and how?

I guess we'll pick apart the series as it goes along. This could be good "situational awareness" training.

*NOTE* He was in possession of an AMERICAN FLAG! What the hell did the leader of the "A" hole group say about that, I forgot. I know that represented the rebel forces but there was something he said............it was just something so anti American and it pissed me off, but I forgot what he said. Which leads me to believe there was some underlying meaning in there somewhere, so let's try to stay on topic. Especially me......

[Kodiak]

Hmm, this is a scenario that ive thought about off and on for awhile now. Being outnumbered 25-1 any sane person would hand over the weapon to avoid bloodshed, your not going to win vs. those odds. Also if giving them the weapon would stop them from searching your possessions then thats the way to go, who knows what else they would take from you.

This scenario is the reason to have alternate weapons, food & water and basic survival supplies stashed outside of your home.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

Yup, we've already dummied up our deer. They know we have a shot gun. You know they are going to snoop around, the probability is high that your going to suffer in one way or another because of this mistake. Let's see what the others have to say. Hope you had a quiet "morning"........

[Onestep]

Agree with Kodiak, no way to get out of it without giving up the shotgun.
Another reason for learning to bow hunt (don't forget a LOT of arrows, extra bow string, broadheads...)
As for the deer, instead of hanging it, it could have been quartered and placed in a less conspicuous location to age.

[ak474u]

I think I would, in a situation like "no guns, punishable by death" have to not bring a fresh kill home. I'd probably build a huntin shack, and process it away from home for fear of a passing band of govt. thugs hearing it. Obviously, if all guns are illegal, there's not much to stop me from suppressing them, so maybe a .22 with a can, and a good scope would be the way to avoid making as much noise. Archery in a situation like the tv show is probably the way to go anyway due to the limited supply/absence of ammo. Of course, none of us are represented on that show, because lots of us have enough ammo to hunt for the rest of our lives, and then some. I'd like to have a good crossbow due to the accuracy advantages over a bow, but that's a ways down the road for me.

[4suchatimeasthis]

I have not watched the show, no tv here, maybe I will look it up online, anyway, not knowing anything about the show, this is what I would do........can't you just claim that you already handed over your gun to the make believe previous group that supposedly heard your shot? Unless you killed it with one shot, which can and does happen, but not always, I would claim that multiple shots was multiple deer hit, and that you involuntarily handed over the other deer and the gun. Seriously, my sob-story would be that another gang of ruffians heard the shots, came just as I finished dressing out the first deer, and took the gun and that deer off my hands, and left me with the other deer. Heck, I might even tell them that if they hurried, they might catch up with that other group, and they could steal the gun and the other deer from...and if they left, I would move and get the hell outta the area!

Also, I agree with Kodiak on this, common sense would tell you to have multiple caches consisting of a gun/clothes/first aid/food/ammo/water, for just this reason. Done properly, you could fit all of that into a 5 gallon pail with a lid (yes, that would be a pistol, probably a 9mm with a .22 conversion kit, and yes, you can hunt deer with a .22, not that it's legal, but it has been done, extensively, by my gun clinging dead grandfather who had 12 kids to feed!).

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

Agree with Kodiak, no way to get out of it without giving up the shotgun.
Another reason for learning to bow hunt (don't forget a LOT of arrows, extra bow string, broadheads...)
As for the deer, instead of hanging it, it could have been quartered and placed in a less conspicuous location to age.
Not to bust your chops, but the deer is moot. So let's take that out of the picture.
What we have is an out numbered out gunned situation. Obviously give up the gun, I'm not ready to die pointlessly. I have a wife that I love "deerly" I want to fight and die that way and I want to take as many of those SOB's that I can with me before I go, so let's think about this. We give up the gun, we give up the deer, they search the house, They find nothing because I for one would have prevented anymore from being found, now for my arse whippin. Now they leave, I noticed on the show that they march in column formation.

My property happens to be layed out so that the only way to come in and out in such a manner, i.e, horses and carts. is by a narrow old railroad bed. Great for ambush's and also for improvised say booby traps.....doom on you. Even for one person you could take out almost all of them with the proper knowledge and training If I didn't suffer too much damage from said arse whoopin. Now if my wife was near by and was smart enough to stay hidden until after my beat down, we'd do it together or she'd do it and I'd catch, correction crawl up later and help finish them off. Remember they all have to die. Second. In this scenario, once all is said and done one must dispose of the bodies. No evidence!

And NO I haven't rigged my property.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

I have not watched the show, no tv here, maybe I will look it up online, anyway, not knowing anything about the show, this is what I would do........can't you just claim that you already handed over your gun to the make believe previous group that supposedly heard your shot? Unless you killed it with one shot, which can and does happen, but not always, I would claim that multiple shots was multiple deer hit, and that you involuntarily handed over the other deer and the gun. Seriously, my sob-story would be that another gang of ruffians heard the shots, came just as I finished dressing out the first deer, and took the gun and that deer off my hands, and left me with the other deer. Heck, I might even tell them that if they hurried, they might catch up with that other group, and they could steal the gun and the other deer from...and if they left, I would move and get the hell outta the area!

Also, I agree with Kodiak on this, common sense would tell you to have multiple caches consisting of a gun/clothes/first aid/food/ammo/water, for just this reason. Done properly, you could fit all of that into a 5 gallon pail with a lid (yes, that would be a pistol, probably a 9mm with a .22 conversion kit, and yes, you can hunt deer with a .22, not that it's legal, but it has been done, extensively, by my gun clinging dead grandfather who had 12 kids to feed!).

He did try telling them, but I understand you didn't see the show. This person (the leader of said group)was an insurance adjuster and doesn't trust anyone. So to fill you in, the guy gave up his shot gun and then the leader said "well if you have this I'm sure you have something else so we're going to search your place" so the owner steps back inside and comes back with a pistol and manages to gut shot one soldier but gets himself killed in the process. Not a good plan..............But I'm liking yours! Never keep all your eggs in one basket? OK I'm not the expert here just someone who has ideas too..............TRAIN ON!

[izzyscout21]

Second. In this scenario, once all is said and done one must dispose of the bodies. No evidence!

.

that bulldozer is looking mighty handy............

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

Not to mention the front end loader, yes I do happen to own a few implements of destruction. Yet they all happen EMP proof......non electronic, how ironic. Now after 14yrs will I have petrol???????? Will I have been able to make diesel/moonshine/gasoline/kerosine? Do I have the knowledge, can I read books, have I prepared for this? Do I have a submarine fleet? OK stay on topic!

[izzyscout21]

River Rat,

I agree with your assesment. Sometimes things have to be done that walk the edge of what people find acceptable.
Would I give up the shotgun?.....yes.....
would I make them pay for it?.......dearly

Right now, some people may find this course of action reprehensible, but those same people need to look at the other side of the coin. When the time comes, I will not hesitate to do what must be done to preserve the life and well being of my family or those of my group. I doubt anyone here would disagree.
Taking the shotgun represents a direct threat upon my family much the same as if a country cut off our oil supply. I depend on that shotgun to porcure food just as I depend on the oil for transportation.

This is among a myriad of scenarios that we prepare for, but the biggest prep in this case is mindset.

Added note:

I am VERY well versed in ambushes............

[ladyhk13]

He should NOT have answered the door. He knew that having a gun was an automatic death sentence so he was going to be killed whether he gave up the gun or not. He should have had the doors booby trapped so if they tried to open them it would take out as many as possible and maybe have a chance to go out the back door. But if you are going to die anyway, why go alone???? All these people already know about this militia and how ruthless they are so why even give them the time of day plus a couple more guns?

[Willie51]

Crap, let's try this again. I thought I posted earlier, but it timed out on me I guess and I lost it all. :(

Okay, it seems that this guy made a serious mistake with the shotgun and deer hanging out front in plain view...dumb. Since the penalty for owning a gun of any type is punishable by death in the new republic, and he owns a U.S. Flag (now a rebel flag) means that he is probably doomed anyway. Especially since the insurance adjuster militia lieutenant likes killing for any reason, he is the executioner. I don't think a "beat down" is in the cards and there was no family to protect and provide for....just me. So, I would ease back inside the door as he did and pick up my shotgun (Benelli pump with 8 rounds of 00 buck 3" magnum) hoping to give a false signal of surrender. I would then turn and shoot and pump as fast as I could, and hope to take out "two for one" with each shot starting with the insurance adjuster leader. I would then dive behind the wall grabbing my pistola to finish the job and then hopefully I would be the last one standing. The other outcome is that I would go down fighting and take the leader and a few with me. I think I would rather go meet Jesus fighting for the cause, then having my throat slit while on my knees like an scared animal (can't stand the thought of being cut).

[drissel]

Personally I would have done things different..like why hang the deer, process it quickly and out of sight, as not only militia but also neighbors...just too many questions about this show, and not sure it will make it...have to wait and see....however "LAST RESORT" is on tonight and that may be better....will continue to watch both for a while.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

Crap, let's try this again. I thought I posted earlier, but it timed out on me I guess and I lost it all. :(

Okay, it seems that this guy made a serious mistake with the shotgun and deer hanging out front in plain view...dumb. Since the penalty for owning a gun of any type is punishable by death in the new republic, and he owns a U.S. Flag (now a rebel flag) means that he is probably doomed anyway. Especially since the insurance adjuster militia lieutenant likes killing for any reason, he is the executioner. I don't think a "beat down" is in the cards and there was no family to protect and provide for....just me. So, I would ease back inside the door as he did and pick up my shotgun (Benelli pump with 8 rounds of 00 buck 3" magnum) hoping to give a false signal of surrender. I would then turn and shoot and pump as fast as I could, and hope to take out "two for one" with each shot starting with the insurance adjuster leader. I would then dive behind the wall grabbing my pistola to finish the job and then hopefully I would be the last one standing. The other outcome is that I would go down fighting and take the leader and a few with me. I think I would rather go meet Jesus fighting for the cause, then having my throat slit while on my knees like an scared animal (can't stand the thought of being cut).

"Rambo, what mean expendable?............it's like when somebody invites you to a party and you don't show up, nobody cares.................."

Damn dude....Uh I guess that's a plan. Did you watch the program? If not try to tune in monday nights after "The Voice" I have to give it to you that way because that's the way my wife has things goin around here. I see a contingency plan other than going "Rambo" as my wife likes to call it. Yes, I did forget to mention the penalty was death didn't I?

[izzyscout21]

Crap, let's try this again. I thought I posted earlier, but it timed out on me I guess and I lost it all. :(

Okay, it seems that this guy made a serious mistake with the shotgun and deer hanging out front in plain view...dumb. Since the penalty for owning a gun of any type is punishable by death in the new republic, and he owns a U.S. Flag (now a rebel flag) means that he is probably doomed anyway. Especially since the insurance adjuster militia lieutenant likes killing for any reason, he is the executioner. I don't think a "beat down" is in the cards and there was no family to protect and provide for....just me. So, I would ease back inside the door as he did and pick up my shotgun (Benelli pump with 8 rounds of 00 buck 3" magnum) hoping to give a false signal of surrender. I would then turn and shoot and pump as fast as I could, and hope to take out "two for one" with each shot starting with the insurance adjuster leader. I would then dive behind the wall grabbing my pistola to finish the job and then hopefully I would be the last one standing. The other outcome is that I would go down fighting and take the leader and a few with me. I think I would rather go meet Jesus fighting for the cause, then having my throat slit while on my knees like an scared animal (can't stand the thought of being cut).

Really??

[Willie51]

"Rambo, what mean expendable?............it's like when somebody invites you to a party and you don't show up, nobody cares.................."

Damn dude....Uh I guess that's a plan. Did you watch the program? If not try to tune in monday nights after "The Voice" I have to give it to you that way because that's the way my wife has things goin around here. I see a contingency plan other than going "Rambo" as my wife likes to call it. Yes, I did forget to mention the penalty was death didn't I?

:) I did watch both episodes and that's why I put it the way I did. The key words are "punishable by death" not "beat down". Then he has the rebel flag which makes him the arch ememy of the new republic and militia. I don't think the chances were real good for him in the movie or your scenario, so why not go out and take some with you instead of going alone. Just saying..........

Plus your dear wife agrees with me. :cool:

[eagle326]

River Rat,

I agree with your assesment. Sometimes things have to be done that walk the edge of what people find acceptable.
Would I give up the shotgun?.....yes.....
would I make them pay for it?.......dearly

Right now, some people may find this course of action reprehensible, but those same people need to look at the other side of the coin. When the time comes, I will not hesitate to do what must be done to preserve the life and well being of my family or those of my group. I doubt anyone here would disagree.
Taking the shotgun represents a direct threat upon my family much the same as if a country cut off our oil supply. I depend on that shotgun to porcure food just as I depend on the oil for transportation.

This is among a myriad of scenarios that we prepare for, but the biggest prep in this case is mindset.

Added note:

I am VERY well versed in ambushes............



Very well stated Izzy.Do what you need to do to come out of the situation alive. Give up the shotgun and whatever else they take. Your mission is to stay alive in order to extract payment from them at a later date.
From what I saw of the show the man had no OPSEC. regarding the deer and gun. If you come out of this alive you have to re-evaluate your program and make it look primitive to the fullest extent and keep all guns in a secretive place. They should not be used openly for hunting. Better used in my opinion for humans. Out of sight ; out of mind but close enough in case of attack or self preservation.

As you said Izzy ; It's all about the mindset and being in character for the part you play.

[Willie51]

*NOTE*[/B] He was in possession of an AMERICAN FLAG! What the hell did the leader of the "A" hole group say about that, I forgot. I know that represented the rebel forces but there was something he said............it was just something so anti American and it pissed me off, but I forgot what he said. Which leads me to believe there was some underlying meaning in there somewhere, so let's try to stay on topic. Especially me......


He gritted his teeth and said "BURN IT". Pissed me off too.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

He gritted his teeth and said "BURN IT". Pissed me off too.

Yeah, I know he said "burn it" but there was something else. It's buggin the crap out of me. I'll figure it out...........as soon as the smoke clears.

[Willie51]

Yeah, I know he said "burn it" but there was something else. It's buggin the crap out of me. I'll figure it out...........as soon as the smoke clears.

I think if you go to NBC.com you can watch both episodes for free. Maybe you can pick up on what's buggin you. I can't remember all of it either.

[Willie51]

Really??

Yep, really. I knew this stance would be controversial, but I stand by it based on the show. If I had not seen both episodes, then I would have answered it differently for sure. But seeing how ruthless and cold blooded the insurance adjuster was, I felt like the chances of survival were nil and I would rather go down fighting instead of being slaughtered like an animal.

Now, since my new name is Rambo :cool:, I did go back and reread BWRR’s original post about the scenario. If he purposely left out (correct me here BWRR) the fact that owning a gun was punishable by death, then I missed that point and blew it. :mad: Like my DW tells me, “you need to pay attention more”. :confused:

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

I think if you go to NBC.com you can watch both episodes for free. Maybe you can pick up on what's buggin you. I can't remember all of it either.

Willie I would but I don't want to screw with my "fair access policy" being on wild blue and living in the boonies. I'll get over it. I'm sure there will be a rerun or we'll pick the crap out of the next episode come monday. So as far as the young man following the niece of the Uncle who's "really good at killing people" Great job of deception with the ankle as pointed out by LadyHK. Would I have left him there hand cuffed? Me being who I am......NO.......not living.......quietly and disposed of. He has to go, he has but one mission and his loyalties have been to no one but the other side. I do not see him as anything but a liability, however I'm sure the series will make him the new "Bo" before to long.

[Willie51]

Willie I would but I don't want to screw with my "fair access policy" being on wild blue and living in the boonies. I'll get over it. I'm sure there will be a rerun or we'll pick the crap out of the next episode come monday. So as far as the young man following the niece of the Uncle who's "really good at killing people" Great job of deception with the ankle as pointed out by LadyHK. Would I have left him there hand cuffed? Me being who I am......NO.......not living.......quietly and disposed of. He has to go, he has but one mission and his loyalties have been to no one but the other side. I do not see him as anything but a liability, however I'm sure the series will make him the new "Bo" before to long.

I agree with your analogy here. I see that coming. His love or lust for Charlie will turn him from the dark side. :)

I might go back and look at Monday night's episode and see if I can get the line you're looking for. Was it right after he shot the man with the deer?

[helomech]

In that situation, I really believe I would have tried to kill all of them from cover. I would not have come out the house. Knowing these guys like to kill civilians, I think my best chances would have been to do my best to take all of them out. Also if I lived in a situation like that, that area would have been set up as a trap. If the SHTF I will have so many booby traps around my place no group would be able to rid in like that. I love booby traps, and I would also set up areas that look great to hide behind and turn them into kill zones. 15 years is a lot of time to make a area unsafe for anyone that does not know the area. In that amount of time you could literally have thousands of booby traps set up.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

Yup, the guy comes out holding the flag after they search the place, they exchange some dialog, this is what I'm talking about and then he says "burn it".

OH and if I'm wrong I'll post my remaining brain cell and you can ..........."burn it"

[Willie51]

^the guy did come out of the house with the U.S. flag and said something like, "look he has a rebel flag". But I will try to look at it tonight and see what he says.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

In that situation, I really believe I would have tried to kill all of them from cover. I would not have come out the house. Knowing these guys like to kill civilians, I think my best chances would have been to do my best to take all of them out. Also if I lived in a situation like that, that area would have been set up as a trap. If the SHTF I will have so many booby traps around my place no group would be able to rid in like that. I love booby traps, and I would also set up areas that look great to hide behind and turn them into kill zones. 15 years is a lot of time to make a area unsafe for anyone that does not know the area. In that amount of time you could literally have thousands of booby traps set up.

Now that's the answer I was looking for! Don't come out......not if you knew they were coming. If you could duck out the back do it, let'em take the deer. Follow Helomech lead, need I say more? I appreciatecha!

[helomech]

Now that's the answer I was looking for! Don't come out......not if you knew they were coming. If you could duck out the back do it, let'em take the deer. Follow Helomech lead, need I say more? I appreciatecha!

There was only 9 of them, and none of them had their weapon drawn. I am confident with a AR I could have taken all of them out without getting shot myself. Probably could have taken 2 with the first shot, just look for two of them in a line, do it with hogs all the time. That would leave 7, guy in charge would be next. Hopefully if any made the initial shooting, they went for the cover I would have set up as a trap. It really is not that hard for one, or two people to take on a group that size with the home field advantage.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

OOPs! Uh, I stand corrected, by LadyHK13 she already said all this sooooooooo, helo's would be the second best correct answer. But I won't apologize nope, can't do that, it's a sign of weakness.

[Willie51]

OOPs! Uh, I stand corrected, by LadyHK13 she already said all this sooooooooo, helo's would be the second best correct answer. But I won't apologize nope, can't do that, it's a sign of weakness.

I was about to say....yes she did say it too! Plus she agree with me on being Rambo. :)

Also, I just replayed the hanging deer scene 4 times to hear what was said, and I counted 6 soldiers all lined up counting the lead dog who was 15 feet away from the front door of the house. My brain cells are gone too apparently. This is what happens after the adjuster shoots the man. He orders one guy to search the house then he kneels down besides his wounded soldier and says, "easy son, easy son, easy, easy, easy, lemme see, lemme see", while he looks at the gut shot. His guy he orderd to search the house comes out and says nothing, but holds up the American Flag. Then he says "burn it"....."burn it all!"

[ladyhk13]

If you shoot the head dog first it will confuse the rest of them long enough for you to get the upper hand. The guy had a shotgun at short range. He could have done some serious damage from a window if he didn't booby trap his property or his doors. Cut off the head of the snake and the rest will die...those other guys are a bunch of ill trained, sheeple, kids who would probably just stand there in shock that their leader is dead and possibly many of their comrads due to well placed shotgun shells. Double barrel? Hmmmm. Then he had a pistol too. He could have done some serious damage before they knew what hit them.

[Willie51]

If you shoot the head dog first it will confuse the rest of them long enough for you to get the upper hand. The guy had a shotgun at short range. He could have done some serious damage from a window if he didn't booby trap his property or his doors. Cut off the head of the snake and the rest will die...those other guys are a bunch of ill trained, sheeple, kids who would probably just stand there in shock that their leader is dead and possibly many of their comrads due to well placed shotgun shells. Double barrel? Hmmmm. Then he had a pistol too. He could have done some serious damage before they knew what hit them.

Agreed 100%! :)

[izzyscout21]

Taking them all out at once would be problematic.

Now granted, they were bunched up and would have made an easier target at first. What I believe would have happened based on my experience, is that after you take the head dude (and let's face it, he was the only "real" shooter) I would have been able to hit a few more of them in the surprise of the moment. The rest of them would have begun to scatter and try to get to some form of cover or just plain run away.

This draws you into two games:

1:

Engage from cover and kill as many as possible

and

2:

After that's done, you;re going to try to hunt down the guys that turned tail and ran.


Unless you've got a belt fed or something like that, getting them all on the first volley is a slim to none proposition.

But hey, what do I know............

[helomech]

Taking them all out at once would be problematic.

Now granted, they were bunched up and would have made an easier target at first. What I believe would have happened based on my experience, is that after you take the head dude (and let's face it, he was the only "real" shooter) I would have been able to hit a few more of them in the surprise of the moment. The rest of them would have begun to scatter and try to get to some form of cover or just plain run away.

This draws you into two games:

1:

Engage from cover and kill as many as possible

and

2:

After that's done, you;re going to try to hunt down the guys that turned tail and ran.


Unless you've got a belt fed or something like that, getting them all on the first volley is a slim to none proposition.

But hey, what do I know............

I know you have more combat experience than me, but these guys are not used to people fighting back. With a 20 round mag in 308, I really believe I could at least wound all of them. And like I said, I love booby traps, so anything that looks like cover would be a bad place to run to. It is very easy to make a hiding spot close to the ambush zone that appears to provide cover and concealment. But a small explosive device in the correct spot could take anyone in that hiding spot out.

I regularly engage mulitple hogs and get more than one every time i try. And hogs are much faster and a much harder target.

[izzyscout21]

I know you have more combat experience than me, but these guys are not used to people fighting back..

While this may be true, that does not mean that they will just stand there and allow you to shoot at them. They will react one of two ways:
they will fight or they will run. That is how the Great Maker wired us. Fight or FLight. SOme if not all of them will fight and some will run. Basic human psychology and physiology.

The things I've personally witnessed and experienced in combat give me the ability to apply some real world experience to the thinking process. It doesn't make me any better than anyone else, but it does give me perspective. I used to fantasize and play out these types of scenarios in my head. Combat experience has shone a lot of light and made me realize how foolish my thinking was.





I regularly engage mulitple hogs and get more than one every time i try. And hogs are much faster and a much harder target.


While the hogs may be a "faster, harder" target, they do not think or react to danger in the same way we do. You hunt the hogs. They may or may not be aware of the danger. Kudos if you can hit more than one, but now you're hunting different creatures.

In this situation outlined, the thugs were armed and prepared. They were already on the defensive, ready for him to throw down. They were prepared for whatever reaction (within reason) he had coming.
Throw in the fact that the human brain allows us to play scenarios in our heads and run with them. Hogs run off of pure instinct. Humans think things through.

Not saying that what you said you would do isn't impossible, it's just highly improbable that you would carry it out with any measurable degree of success. You may take a few out, but what does that do for you? You're still dead. Your family is still hungry.


I like this thread. Good discussion. Keep the banter coming folks.

[helomech]

While this may be true, that does not mean that they will just stand there and allow you to shoot at them. They will react one of two ways:
they will fight or they will run. That is how the Great Maker wired us. Fight or FLight. SOme if not all of them will fight and some will run. Basic human psychology and physiology.

The things I've personally witnessed and experienced in combat give me the ability to apply some real world experience to the thinking process. It doesn't make me any better than anyone else, but it does give me perspective. I used to fantasize and play out these types of scenarios in my head. Combat experience has shone a lot of light and made me realize how foolish my thinking was.







While the hogs may be a "faster, harder" target, they do not think or react to danger in the same way we do. You hunt the hogs. They may or may not be aware of the danger. Kudos if you can hit more than one, but now you're hunting different creatures.

In this situation outlined, the thugs were armed and prepared. They were already on the defensive, ready for him to throw down. They were prepared for whatever reaction (within reason) he had coming.
Throw in the fact that the human brain allows us to play scenarios in our heads and run with them. Hogs run off of pure instinct. Humans think things through.

Not saying that what you said you would do isn't impossible, it's just highly improbable that you would carry it out with any measurable degree of success. You may take a few out, but what does that do for you? You're still dead. Your family is still hungry.


I like this thread. Good discussion. Keep the banter coming folks.

They don't have to stand there very long. All I need is a couple seconds to engage them. This situation is not your typical combat. These guys are not alert, they are not expecting any resistance, and I doubt any of them had any type of training. They are not armed very well, and they have no communication with reinforcements.

Only a few of them where armed with guns. Most had edge weapons. Wish I had not deleted it, so I could look at it again. And like I said with a few booby traps, (which I will have plenty of if the SHTF) it would have changed the odds greatly. I think you are giving humans to much credit, most will not think things through in a tense situation. If I had family than the odds would have even been better on my side. That would have only left 2 targets for each. I know I could get at least 2 with the first shot, there is no doubt in my mind about that. Did you see how long it took those guys to react when the guy walked back into the house. These are all signs that these guys are not used to being challenged, and I doubt any of them except the leader would have reacted properly. 15 years of preparing for these guys is a long time, to make things go your way.

[ehughes1488]

I say kill the ones with guns first. Then pull out my william wallace claymore and challenge the rest to a duel. Haha no but seriously as soon as that first shot goes off they are either running or shooting back. I agree with izzy. I can't say I wouldn't shoot back cause no ones going to take my guns without a fight but I'm shooting and moving to cover not just going to stand there, that's asking to catch a bullet. If they run then its time to move cause you can guarantee they will probably be back with more.

[ak474u]

They don't have to stand there very long. All I need is a couple seconds to engage them. This situation is not your typical combat. These guys are not alert, they are not expecting any resistance, and I doubt any of them had any type of training. They are not armed very well, and they have no communication with reinforcements.

Only a few of them where armed with guns. Most had edge weapons. Wish I had not deleted it, so I could look at it again. And like I said with a few booby traps, (which I will have plenty of if the SHTF) it would have changed the odds greatly. I think you are giving humans to much credit, most will not think things through in a tense situation. If I had family than the odds would have even been better on my side. That would have only left 2 targets for each. I know I could get at least 2 with the first shot, there is no doubt in my mind about that. Did you see how long it took those guys to react when the guy walked back into the house. These are all signs that these guys are not used to being challenged, and I doubt any of them except the leader would have reacted properly. 15 years of preparing for these guys is a long time, to make things go your way.

I'd say on the other side, that 15 years is a long time for a militiamen, or bandit to perfect a craft, what is it James Caan said in Way of the Gun? The only thing you can assume about an old man is he's a survivor. I'd think that obviously strength in numbers lends the upper hand to the militia, but all armies that don't engage in regular combat against armed opposition do get complacent, which kills. Hence the need for constant training in peace time of a standing army.

I might even dare to say that the insurance salesman leader is THE embodiment of your neighbors who think that post SHTF, they'll just take your stuff, or even more innocently, you'll be there to help, of course until there is a disagreement about who is boss, then they'll just kill you/us in our sleep... Or at least that's that they think they'll do. The leader is admittedly, a former sheeple.

[helomech]

I'd say on the other side, that 15 years is a long time for a militiamen, or bandit to perfect a craft, what is it James Caan said in Way of the Gun? The only thing you can assume about an old man is he's a survivor. I'd think that obviously strength in numbers lends the upper hand to the militia, but all armies that don't engage in regular combat against armed opposition do get complacent, which kills. Hence the need for constant training in peace time of a standing army.

I might even dare to say that the insurance salesman leader is THE embodiment of your neighbors who think that post SHTF, they'll just take your stuff, or even more innocently, you'll be there to help, of course until there is a disagreement about who is boss, then they'll just kill you/us in our sleep... Or at least that's that they think they'll do. The leader is admittedly, a former sheeple.

I would agree that 15 years is a long time for them to get good, but from what I have seen on the movie, they are not used to meeting resistance. If they where they would have taken control immediately upon arrival, instead of letting him walk back into his house to get his gun. Complacency is a huge weakness.

[ladyhk13]

The things I've personally witnessed and experienced in combat give me the ability to apply some real world experience to the thinking process. It doesn't make me any better than anyone else, but it does give me perspective. I used to fantasize and play out these types of scenarios in my head. Combat experience has shone a lot of light and made me realize how foolish my thinking was.


That's because you kept thinking they all looked like a donkey :)

[izzyscout21]

I would agree that 15 years is a long time for them to get good, but from what I have seen on the movie, they are not used to meeting resistance. If they where they would have taken control immediately upon arrival, instead of letting him walk back into his house to get his gun. Complacency is a huge weakness.

Complacency is a huge weakness, but I don't think it weakens them to the point where you can decimate them in a matter of seconds single handedly.

Remember, they KNEW he had a gun. The deer carcass was there to prove it. Major red flag there for any soldier.
Just because they aren't used to meeting resistance doesnt mean that they dont see the warning signs and take note. Obviously somebody in the group did (the leader) , cause the dude wound up dead.

There were times during deployment that we didn't meet resistance, but that didn't mean I didn't take note of empty shell casings or other clues in the houses and buildings I was in. Just like the militia leader allowed the guy to throw down the shotgun, we allowed insurgents to hand over contraband. You don't have to shove a rifle down someone's throat all the time to get your point across. Sometimes, show of force (i.e.- bunch of militai dudes showing up at your porch and calling you out) can be the only weapon necessary. Why don't I fuck with the rotweiler down the street? Them some big ass teeth..........

Sometimes you catch more things with sugar, ya know?

Didn't mean we were being complacent, just doing something different. I don't think that every bad guy will try to take what is yours by force. Coercion can get you a long way.

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That's because you kept thinking they all looked like a donkey :)

LMAO

[helomech]

Complacency is a huge weakness, but I don't think it weakens them to the point where you can decimate them in a matter of seconds single handedly.

Remember, they KNEW he had a gun. The deer carcass was there to prove it. Major red flag there for any soldier.
Just because they aren't used to meeting resistance doesnt mean that they dont see the warning signs and take note. Obviously somebody in the group did (the leader) , cause the dude wound up dead.

There were times during deployment that we didn't meet resistance, but that didn't mean I didn't take note of empty shell casings or other clues in the houses and buildings I was in. Just like the militia leader allowed the guy to throw down the shotgun, we allowed insurgents to hand over contraband. You don't have to shove a rifle down someone's throat all the time to get your point across. Sometimes, show of force (i.e.- bunch of militai dudes showing up at your porch and calling you out) can be the only weapon necessary. Why don't I fuck with the rotweiler down the street? Them some big ass teeth..........

Sometimes you catch more things with sugar, ya know?

Didn't mean we were being complacent, just doing something different. I don't think that every bad guy will try to take what is yours by force. Coercion can get you a long way.

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LMAO


I hear you, but he should have know he was going to die. Having the gun was a death sentence. That is why I said, I would not come out at all. I would have taken a good position and tried to kill all of them. If you comply, you will die. His only chance of survival in that situation was to kill them. Like I said with 15 years to get your land the way you want it, one guy could have taken them. If he was alone , and if he would have been outside in the yard when they showed up he had no chance. But he was not in view at the time, he had the advantage of surprise, plus concealment. With a few traps, he should have been successful. One of my favorite traps is a ground spike, you can make plenty of these and put them all over the edges of the trail. Anyone running off the trail would have a round through the foot at best.

[ak474u]

Complacency is a huge weakness, but I don't think it weakens them to the point where you can decimate them in a matter of seconds single handedly.

Remember, they KNEW he had a gun. The deer carcass was there to prove it. Major red flag there for any soldier.
Just because they aren't used to meeting resistance doesnt mean that they dont see the warning signs and take note. Obviously somebody in the group did (the leader) , cause the dude wound up dead.

There were times during deployment that we didn't meet resistance, but that didn't mean I didn't take note of empty shell casings or other clues in the houses and buildings I was in. Just like the militia leader allowed the guy to throw down the shotgun, we allowed insurgents to hand over contraband. You don't have to shove a rifle down someone's throat all the time to get your point across. Sometimes, show of force (i.e.- bunch of militai dudes showing up at your porch and calling you out) can be the only weapon necessary. Why don't I fuck with the rotweiler down the street? Them some big ass teeth..........

Sometimes you catch more things with sugar, ya know?

Didn't mean we were being complacent, just doing something different. I don't think that every bad guy will try to take what is yours by force. Coercion can get you a long way.

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LMAO

I agree, complacency on the part of an enemy, is at best lucky for you if you meet them at that time. Obviously, like helomech, I wouldn't come out at all, and would either make a break for it, or, since they're ruling with an iron fist, and making violation of their "law" expensive for those who choose not to live by it, the only choice may be to make enforcing such laws expensive for them as well, example: fighting it out, since if you know the law, you're dead anyway for having a gun. One could probably off a couple of them from inside, and there's an advantage to being the one defending vs. attacking across open terrain, I forget the ratio they use for how many people it takes to assault a fixed position vs. defending said position, but I know it takes considerably more than it takes to defend. But, there's no retreat from the Alamo, and a couple of well placed torches mean you're still dead.

[izzyscout21]

If Izzy's not around my Donkey's will be safe. OK I think that about covers it for me to

Sheesh............a guy shoots one donkey with a Barrett and he can never live it down...............

now.......if you only change the scenario to 25 stampeding asses, I'd have you covered.

[ladyhk13]

Dude I don't think you have enough ass for all of those asses!
There, there poor little bear...you gave it up and now will never live it down.

[Kodiak]

I'd say on the other side, that 15 years is a long time for a militiamen, or bandit to perfect a craft, what is it James Caan said in Way of the Gun? The only thing you can assume about an old man is he's a survivor.

I agree, anyone who is still alive after 15 yrs post SHTF knows how to survive, period. You are not going to just run through 25 armed men with a 12ga pump and a 1911, you may take some out but chances are they will kill you.

But hey, everyone has to die of something and it might as well be in the process of killing a bunch of douche bags.

[helomech]

I agree, anyone who is still alive after 15 yrs post SHTF knows how to survive, period. You are not going to just run through 25 armed men with a 12ga pump and a 1911, you may take some out but chances are they will kill you.

But hey, everyone has to die of something and it might as well be in the process of killing a bunch of douche bags.

There wasn't 25 of them, I believe there where either 7 or 9. And I don't like a shotgun for self defense, rifle only. If there where 25 than I would agree, and I would have tried to leave the area without being seen. Or blow the 250 gallon propane tank I would have buried.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

OK, like I said "It's scenario time", I'm throwing something out there for someone to work with and engage their mind. Realisticly, NO not allot of people would survive any of this shit period. Much less have any of these weapons after 15 years of nothing............soooooooooooo, would you?

[izzyscout21]

I have a feeling that this thread will live long and be full of great discussion

[mitunnelrat]

I need to watch this show so I can join in then. The scenarios are pretty self explanatory, but it would be nice to see the content driving them.

[izzyscout21]

I need to watch this show so I can join in then. The scenarios are pretty self explanatory, but it would be nice to see the content driving them.


yes. yes you do.

[bacpacker]

I finally got to watch the two episodes tonight. I'll try to pick it up after the next episode. Pretty good show. And the insurance guy needs to.......die! ...... Slowly!

[helomech]

And the insurance guy needs to.......die! ...... Slowly!

If he came to my town, I would hunt him till he was dead.

[Willie51]

I finally got to watch the two episodes tonight. I'll try to pick it up after the next episode. Pretty good show. And the insurance guy needs to.......die! ...... Slowly!

He's not just an insurance guy....he's an Insurance Adjuster and that makes him much worse!! :mad: I know because i was in that business for a good while once upon a time in my life. Any yes he needs to die very slowly and painfully.:)

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Revolution tonight at 9:00 central. :)

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

Stand by for your next challenge Ants for the colony depends on it. Keep your knives sharp and your mind rusty for trail's about to get dusty..........keep your "long term" preps in mind for this one. I'll see what they have on store for my brittle mind so I can up with another scenario to sharpen "all" of ours. I hope it's a good one!

[izzyscout21]

It's almost game time..........standing by for the new scenario

[bacpacker]

I waiting as well. Thought it came on at 8:00.

[izzyscout21]

comes on at 9 here

[bacpacker]

Same here.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

tick.......tick.......tick.........

[izzyscout21]

Quiet in front. It's coming on!

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

I hear crickets..................

[izzyscout21]

I'll come back to this in a little while. I had to think about it a bit.

[helomech]

That is not a good scenario, but I would rig the fuel system to blow and get out of dodge. Come back after the survivors leave.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

That is not a good scenario, but I would rig the fuel system to blow and get out of dodge. Come back after the survivors leave.
You can use your own skills as well you know............this is doable......think about it.

[The Stig]

BWRR asked me to move the scenario's he was kind enough to put together for us to the Warrior Round Table. There is a new thread there dedicated solely to scenarios and gaming them out.

That leaves this thread for discussion of the show itself.

I invite y'all to check out the new thread in WRT. BWRR has been kind enough to provide the scenarios for our edification and mental conditioning.