An experiment in prepping

[Echo2]

Completely hypothetical....please don't get your bloomers in a knot.....but....

A friend of mine who has been out of work for the last 2 years...but no moss grows on him....he works about 40 to 50 hrs a week doing "odd jobs".

We were discussing the change in ideology due to the election.....and he jokingly brought the subject up.

What if....now that we as a country have decided that it is a "gimme gimme gimme" time....you took complete advantage of it?

What if you went to any and all govt agencies that would listen, and pleaded poverty?

I'm not saying lie...but gripe about your bills...and how hard it is to make ends meet.

I have a friend that works for the Social Services Office.....and she was told to do whatever it takes to get folks approved for as many benefits as possible.

How much do you think you could stockpile off of a few hundred extra bucks a month?

There are very few food items that are not allowed for purchase on the WIC or "Food Stamp" programs.

If you could bring yourself to go to the state sponsored food banks and take from them....how much would they give?

What do you think would be the take?...rough dollar amount?

For discussions sake....what do you think?

[izzyscout21]

A recent figure that I saw puts the monetary equivalent of these benefits (Food stamps, welfare, etc) in the $60k per year ballpark. I dont know for certain which ones were included in the study.

[apssbc]

This has crossedmy mind but morally I cant do it. However from the food pantry we assist at in a neighboring community those people get close to 50-100 dollars worth of food every trip. Thats if your single. If you have a family your pushing close to 150 dollars. As for state aid the girlfriend qualifies, as she has no job due to full time going for her doctorates. We could probably get $500 a month out of her if she got on food stamps, and monetary assistance and what not.

My sister was on assistance when her fiancee left her after she had a baby. Being a single mother living on her own she got $400 in food, plus $150 in baby care items, $500 in rent assistance and $250 in spending cash. She got this everymonth on top of his child support and her part time bartending job. Luckily now she is off the assistance.

We discussed it but morally neither of us can do it. Hell her dad, my father, and myself tried to convince her to sue me for the shooting. In Michigan we can have a friendly plantiff suit and she could get between 50 and 75k for injury, mental anquish ect. I pay for homeowners insurance for a reason, and Id be looking at 100/year increase in premiums. We could pay off our bills with that money but she refuses to do it. I applaud her for doing that, she is a moral rock. I think the money would be nice though ;)

[helomech]

I can say this. I am about sick and tired of paying what I do in taxes so others can sit on their ass. I plan to pay everything off that I have, and then only work for cash. When I do this, I will stick it to the government as hard as I can, the way I look at it, it is my damn money and I want it back. If someone is going to take it, it just as soon be me.

[4suchatimeasthis]

I can't say that it's not tempting. But, I just couldn't do that. I mean, besides the fact that our income no doubt too high, I just couldn't. I am way too self-righteous, lol. How could I shake my finger at all those ne'er do wells if I was doing the same thing?

[The Stig]

It is never a good idea to invite the man into your life.

[AlphaTea]

It is never a good idea to invite the man into your life.
[/thread]

[Echo2]

It is never a good idea to invite the man into your life.

I wouldn't think of really doing it....but if you were one of 100,000,000......you might be a bit hard to single out.

I wonder how long it would be before...if ever....you were found out.

[Twitchy]

I wouldn't think of really doing it....but if you were one of 100,000,000......you might be a bit hard to single out.

I wonder how long it would be before...if ever....you were found out.

Provided you were eligible, your not doing anything wrong... if anything your at least reclaiming your tax dollars...

Not sure I could do it myself unless i actually really needed it...

[Echo2]

Provided you were eligible, your not doing anything wrong... if anything your at least reclaiming your tax dollars...

Not sure I could do it myself unless i actually really needed it...

Look at half the folks on it.....they don't really need it either.....they can work.

Like I said....my buddy hasn't worked in 21 months....and he hasn't needed it.

[Evolver]

Personally... If things got to the point that we have to provide food for our loved ones by savaging for discarded scraps and if the scraps ran out we would die hungry but proud. My kids are grown and are starting their own family's and I hope that I they have learned from my examples. I will only take what I've earned.

[helomech]

But you and I did earn that money, it was taken from us.

[Gunfixr]

You know, this reminds me of something I heard the other day at the shop.
There's a truck stop/gas station/convenience store next door to the gun shop where I work.
Yeah, it brings some "interesting" folks in sometimes.
Anyway, apparently earlier in the week, a woman went in to the store to fill out a job application. After he hands it to her, she asks how much the job pays. He tells her about $8 hr, since minimum wage is up over $7 hr, and if she does well, she'll get a raise. She asks him for a calculator. She figures out her approximate weekly wage, and then gives him back both the calculator and application, and tells him she doesn't want the job, she gets more money sitting at home, so why work.
She then leaves.

With this attitude, what can you say?
How can we as a nation do anything but fail?

[mitunnelrat]

I have a mixed opinion on this, one that I'll be trying to sort out myself and explain as I go, so bear with me if you will, please. I don't believe these programs should be in place, and I despise the abuse associated with them, but...

The pragmatic side of me recognizes they will continue to get funded despite opposition, which means they will pay out to anyone who qualifies. Qualifying is not the same as "needing", imo. An example that comes to mind is the auto stimulus from a few years ago. How many of the unemployed or impovershed qualified to trade in their vehicle for somethingnew with better gas mileage do you think? There is arguably a need for people to have reliable transportation at their disposal, but this program even castrated the used vehicle market for a bit, since trade-ins were destroyed and scrapped. That didn't even fit the concept of trickle down economics, but I digress.

I bring these points up only to shed some light on my thought process. These programs aren't about need, but about who qualifies, because the qualifications provide the numbers that justify the program, which means it continues to receive funding, and continues providing goods and services to people, whether they need them or not.


Its a person character and motivations that matter more to me than the resources they draw upon, so after giving this some more thought I've edited this post to reflect my revised opinion. I cannot fault or judge anyone for using these mandates to his or her personal advantage when they have need of them, but can no longer support the idea of someone drawing just because they qualify. That was wrong of me and violated the moral code I try to stay true to. Drawing benefits should also be a temporary measure and kept in perspective.

Just my thoughts, let me know if/ what I need to clarify.

[helomech]

I am against all forms of government handouts I don't care what they are for. But since I can not do anything about it, I would have no problem drawing off the system. These thieves have been stealing my money for the last 25 years and I am sick and tired of it. If it gets much worse (especially if obama care causes my company to drop my medical care) I will stop working for anything other than cash and I will try my best to get ever damn dollar I can from the government. My goal is to try to break the system. Then once it is broken and if they stop stealing my money I will then become a contributing member of society again. I am so pissed off about welfare and handouts I am about at my breaking point.

[4suchatimeasthis]

Well, I honestly don't think things are going to get better in this country until we hit rock bottom and then rebuild. So if every parasite (not those who actually NEED assistance, but those who are just too damn lazy to get off their a$$ and earn a living) with their hand out brings us closer to the collapse and subsequent rebuild.....well, then I can actually see an upside to it.

There is an old saying, "It's gonna get a lot worse before it gets better", and that's where we are at as a country. As crazy as it sounds, the sooner it gets worse, the sooner it gets better. Bring it on kids, lets get this party started, lol.

[Echo2]

Well, I honestly don't think things are going to get better in this country until we hit rock bottom and then rebuild. So if every parasite (not those who actually NEED assistance, but those who are just too damn lazy to get off their a$$ and earn a living) with their hand out brings us closer to the collapse and subsequent rebuild.....well, then I can actually see an upside to it.

There is an old saying, "It's gonna get a lot worse before it gets better", and that's where we are at as a country. As crazy as it sounds, the sooner it gets worse, the sooner it gets better. Bring it on kids, lets get this party started, lol.

Careful what you wish for....:)....but I know what your saying.

[cwconnertx]

I am against all forms of government handouts I don't care what they are for. But since I can not do anything about it, I would have no problem drawing off the system. These thieves have been stealing my money for the last 25 years and I am sick and tired of it. If it gets much worse (especially if obama care causes my company to drop my medical care) I will stop working for anything other than cash and I will try my best to get ever damn dollar I can from the government. My goal is to try to break the system. Then once it is broken and if they stop stealing my money I will then become a contributing member of society again. I am so pissed off about welfare and handouts I am about at my breaking point.

This is how I feel about it. As long as they are stealing megabucks out of my paycheck I would take back whatever pittance I can, within the bounds of the law. I would probably need to collect food stamps for the rest of my life to get back 25% of what has been taken in taxes.

[Taidaisher]

Not necessarily that thought, but similar thoughts have crossed my mind and continue to do so on a fairly regular basis.

Both my wife and I are employed and in light of the economy, are well paid. We have a great benefits package (which now costs me about $50 more a month than it did pre-election, even though both my wife & my health has improved over the past year), 401k, great home in a great area, 2 kids in elementary, 2 cars, after school activities, etc., etc., etc. Along with all of that, we have a mountain of bills that need to be paid.

We could file for bankruptcy, we would probably have to pay some of our debt off, but could probably dump about %75-80 of it through the bankruptcy.

The problem for me is that, I don't like shirking my responsibilities. I've never taken credit for someone else's work, and would never allow someone else to take credit for my work. I also won't take the blame for your failure, and thereby will not allow you to take the blame for mine. My financial issues, though compounded by the government & the economy & all the sheaple out there, are my issues. I got into this mess, I'll get out.

Still playing the lotto though :D

[izzyscout21]

Recently, the thought has been nagging me.

Due to the seizures, I can no longer work. I've been struggling with the idea of applying for benefits.

[Echo2]

Of all the folks who use the system....why would one who needs the system and has actually contributed.....hesitate in taking advantage of it.

I have before....and had no guilt about it.....biggest thing is, pride is a hard thing to swallow at times.....but recovering and getting off the system does a lot to rid the taste from your mouth.

[ladyhk13]

Izzy you are in a whole different situation. You are the sole income in your household. You have doctors orders that you are not allowed to drive or work for at least 6 months due to a medical issue. I think you need to apply for Soc Sec Disability for at least the duration until you are once again cleared for work. You have to remember that if you go against your doc and drive and have another seizure and kill somone you will lose everything you have worked so hard for. It's not because you are lazy - you have paid into the system all these years and now you are in a situation where it could mean life or death for you or an innocent person. You don't need to do food stamps or anything else if you don't want to but the disability pay could help close the gap of your lost pay.

[izzyscout21]

I know that.

I wasn't supposed to go back to work when I left the Army in 2009. But I did. Out of necessity............and this odd voice in the back of my head telling me to get off my ass.

I was disabled then. I'm even more disabled now. They denied me then. They'll probably deny me again. I'm not eligible for unemployment, because my my current employer wont terminate me or take me off leave of absence.......My VA benefits have already been cut this year....... My Tricare has already been downgraded.......... I'm not getting my full military retirement...... I've had to fight for or be denied every benefit that I'm supposed to receive..............I don't hold a lot of hope for this one.

I understand that I need to, I've come to terms with that. Hell, part of me even wants to go down there and get every last penny I can.......as sort of a protest..........

A smart guy keeps telling me...........they always come after old folks and veterans first............

[mitunnelrat]

I agree with Echo and LHK. Keep in mind too there's alternatives to brick and mortar jobs you must physically commute to these days.

I'm still exploring the ins and outs of our last discussion on this, so rest assured I haven't forgotten and will find a way to help.

[ladyhk13]

Izzy we've talked about this too....you know what you need to do. Don't make this 4'11 person come and kick your butt! You know I will. I'm not afraid of you since you "don't askare" me!

[Sniper-T]

Gotta agree with the consesus pal. I've collected Unemployment a few times over the years whilst between jobs, and see no shame in that. that is what the system is for, and if you qualify for something, go for it!

what's the worst that can happen? they say no, and you waste a bit of time

[bacpacker]

I totally agree. You have sertainly paid your dues into the system. It's there to help out.