Some thoughts to ponder about survival and life.

[arielsailor]

Some handle a crisis it different than others, some fall off the wagon before anything really bad happens. I have 3 basic stages that an evolving (serious) prepper goes through.

1st stage,

OMG I have to buy everything now, max out the credit cards!! Buy guns ammo, and stock fuel! Freak out!

2nd stage,

"Wow its been two years and nothing happened", not as worried about imminent danger now. Slacking off a bit...

3rd stage,

Almost five years later, keep on living life as normal and continue saving money. Mostly purchasing long term items that will last hundreds of years and are high quality and durable. Also learning that money does not necessarily guarantee being a survivor. You need good health and mental stamina, the ability to handle pressure and learning to do without. But mostly educating yourself and coming to terms with psychological preparations, matters the most.

Survival is long term, no matter what you do or what happens, there you are. You are still the same person, with the same abilities. Not all people can become survivors, you either have it or you don't. A person can live alone in a bunker with years of food only to go insane and off themselves after a few months of being alone. Same logic applies to "wannabee commandos", they will be gone in short order before they realize their foolish thoughts. One must posses the quality of adaptation, this not everyone has.

So I am saying, life goes on. Don't max out the credit cards and move to the middle of the mountains just yet. Yes I have noticed that prepping has gone mainstream, and now prepping is somehow "Cool". Through all the paranoia has created people with a misguided attempt at survival. It might seem like a great thing that all of these new people are getting into a new hobby, but we all might have more "enemies" come disaster. Unprepared, hungry armed and angry people wandering about and lurking in the darkness. Those people will be walking targets with black rifles with all of those delicate electronics hanging off looking ridiculous. Don't take that the wrong way, I'm just a traditionalist. A good rule to live by is "if you cant fix it or repair it, you shouldn't own it".

I will elaborate on that last part a bit. There is one thought I have pondered and thought about after all of this time, in regards to the gun only prepper, or the unprepared gun owner. Most people are decent but it is true we are only a few meals away from total chaos. and people wont have qualms about sacrificing you to get your food to feed their starving children. This will be normal and you need to get used to this thought, anybody is fair game in this situation.

If you plan on bugging out even if its only twenty miles expect road blocks. These will be in the form of national guard and local police. All of those guns and ammo you tossed in the trunk will be taken (requisitioned, Ie. outright THEFT) for the greater good. You will be disarmed unless you had the forethought to secure hidden compartments on your vehicle. It happened in a minor event like Katrina, on a slightly larger scale it will happen again. Even after many lawsuits by the NRA to protect gun owners rights, there isn't any guarantee. You must be able to do this discreetly, perhaps just a pistol will suffice. Even you well prepared folk driving into town. Of course some locals would be more friendly depending on the type of emergency and the part of the country you happened to be situated.

Assumptions:

These can be deadly, and you can be profiled by the things you own and what you wear. By everyone, believe it. I own maxpedition stuff but as of late I have been using less and less of anything tactical looking. Call it urban camouflage if you will, you need to look as unassuming as possible. I choose polo shirts, and durable khakis. I look well groomed and trustworthy. Would I be singled out at a roadblock? Unlikely. But take a moment and think about who would be singled out for a roadblock. Would you? Or do you know a neighbor/friend that would? I would rather look like everybody else that were caught unprepared.

What you do now matters,

Most importantly health issues. Need to get a root canal, cavity filled? Do it now. Need your 12 year tetanus shot? Get it done. Do the things you will absolutely need done in the near future now. Live now similar to the way you will then. Most importantly, keep your body in good shape. You don't have to work out every day or be chiseled, but keep a healthy body mass index. Small lifestyle changes, will make a huge difference. I guess we are all guilty of something unhealthy, but the key is moderation in everything.

Purchases and financial education,

Purchase things that have a value that has plateaued, or something new in boxes like generators that can be liquidated for the same amount of money later. Plateaued value means the used price of something stays the same, unless the value increases. Think of it as a hedge against inflation. Most guns continue going up in value, and for the time being, always will. Buy used, and if you get a decent buy it can be resold later in case you have a financial calamity. These items are high liability for theft, so take precautions to secure your investment. Most average people would be occupied with money management techniques before ever thinking about investing. Debt is a terrible thing and learn to live without it. I have been debt free for six years, and it is odd I have more money now than I did when I was in debt! Well about six years ago I too was part of the consumer driven economy. I would mentally write off costs as "what it takes" expenses. Now There is less spending, and the government could take a lesson.


Cheers

[ladyhk13]

Just to add a bit...as far as the financial situation. We are huge Dave Ramsey fans. He teaches to pay cash for everything. Now this works well for preppers in several ways.
1 - there is no trace of the transaction
2- you are not putting things on credit
3- it makes you live within your means and if you have money left over you can pay down any outstanding bills in order to get out of debt.
4- Pay off your mortgage so no one can take your house away if/when the gov't decides to start taking over private lands

Just some thoughts

[Stormfeather]

Some handle a crisis it different than others, some fall off the wagon before anything really bad happens. I have 3 basic stages that an evolving (serious) prepper goes through. . . . .

If you plan on bugging out even if its only twenty miles expect road blocks. These will be in the form of national guard and local police. All of those guns and ammo you tossed in the trunk will be taken (requisitioned, Ie. outright THEFT) for the greater good. You will be disarmed unless you had the forethought to secure hidden compartments on your vehicle. It happened in a minor event like Katrina, on a slightly larger scale it will happen again. Even after many lawsuits by the NRA to protect gun owners rights, there isn't any guarantee. You must be able to do this discreetly, perhaps just a pistol will suffice. Even you well prepared folk driving into town. Of course some locals would be more friendly depending on the type of emergency and the part of the country you happened to be situated.

Assumptions:

These can be deadly, and you can be profiled by the things you own and what you wear. By everyone, believe it. I own maxpedition stuff but as of late I have been using less and less of anything tactical looking. Call it urban camouflage if you will, you need to look as unassuming as possible. I choose polo shirts, and durable khakis. I look well groomed and trustworthy. Would I be singled out at a roadblock? Unlikely. But take a moment and think about who would be singled out for a roadblock. Would you? Or do you know a neighbor/friend that would? I would rather look like everybody else that were caught unprepared. . . . . .

Cheers

I agree with pretty much everything said here minus the part about firearms confiscation.

OP, you do realize that National Guardsman & Law Enforcement, Those folks are citizens too? As a peace officer sent to NOLA 2 days right before Katrina hit, there was a overwhelming majority of us who didnt follow the confiscation ruling the way it was meant to be implemented. The guns we did confiscate were from looters, or hoodrats looking to protect crap they looted. The same can be said for every single member of my team. Now, as a member of the military, I can tell you that any order given to confiscate firearms, will be met with laughter. This will be 10-fold if its Guardsman being told it being as how they are more "hometown oriented" than the rest of us folks who are active or reserves.

If you havent served in the military, its possible you dont know that its every service-members responsibility, to refuse to comply with unlawful orders. We took the pledge to defend this country against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Should a order to come down against the Constitution or the Bill of Rights, you can be guaranteed it will not be followed. Just because I wear a uniform, doesnt mean im a Jack Booted Thug who mindlessly follows orders. The implication that myself, or others serving their country as a law enforcement officer or service member, is to be honest, pretty damn disrespectful to every person who has ever raised their right hand and sworn an oath to protect this country.

You speak of Assumptions. . . . yet you've make seriously huge assumptions from your statements. You also make another when in the Assumptions paragraph you state . . . .

I look well groomed and trustworthy. Would I be singled out at a roadblock? Unlikely.

Any soldier or lawman worth their uniform doesnt care what you look like, we are taught to never accept anything at face value. That minivan with the family in it blows up just as easily as a car with a clean shaven, white clothed, middle eastern man driving up to the front of a convoy of soldiers. I know, Ive witnessed both incidents and had to clean up the remains afterwards.
I hope you can appreciate my point of view here, and how I am offended by it. When or if that SHTF moment happens, and the government loses control, its going to be those guys in uniform who will be in just as bad a spot as you think you will be. But. . . its going to be those guys in uniform who can be counted on for the most part to do the right thing and help out their neighbors as well.

Allow me to say, We're all preppers with big boy/girl pants on, so as far as that paragraph, Dont get mad about my response, as I am not mad, just stating I found your assumption disrespectful. Welcome to the forum, and I look forward to reading your further threads. With the exception of one small part, I found it extremely point on, informative, and well thought out.

Stay Frosty!
Stormfeather

[2die4]

I agree with pretty much everything said here minus the part about firearms confiscation.

OP, you do realize that National Guardsman & Law Enforcement, Those folks are citizens too? As a peace officer sent to NOLA 2 days right before Katrina hit, there was a overwhelming majority of us who didnt follow the confiscation ruling the way it was meant to be implemented. The guns we did confiscate were from looters, or hoodrats looking to protect crap they looted. The same can be said for every single member of my team. Now, as a member of the military, I can tell you that any order given to confiscate firearms, will be met with laughter. This will be 10-fold if its Guardsman being told it being as how they are more "hometown oriented" than the rest of us folks who are active or reserves.

If you havent served in the military, its possible you dont know that its every service-members responsibility, to refuse to comply with unlawful orders. We took the pledge to defend this country against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Should a order to come down against the Constitution or the Bill of Rights, you can be guaranteed it will not be followed. Just because I wear a uniform, doesnt mean im a Jack Booted Thug who mindlessly follows orders. The implication that myself, or others serving their country as a law enforcement officer or service member, is to be honest, pretty damn disrespectful to every person who has ever raised their right hand and sworn an oath to protect this country.

You speak of Assumptions. . . . yet you've make seriously huge assumptions from your statements. You also make another when in the Assumptions paragraph you state . . . .


Any soldier or lawman worth their uniform doesnt care what you look like, we are taught to never accept anything at face value. That minivan with the family in it blows up just as easily as a car with a clean shaven, white clothed, middle eastern man driving up to the front of a convoy of soldiers. I know, Ive witnessed both incidents and had to clean up the remains afterwards.
I hope you can appreciate my point of view here, and how I am offended by it. When or if that SHTF moment happens, and the government loses control, its going to be those guys in uniform who will be in just as bad a spot as you think you will be. But. . . its going to be those guys in uniform who can be counted on for the most part to do the right thing and help out their neighbors as well.

Allow me to say, We're all preppers with big boy/girl pants on, so as far as that paragraph, Dont get mad about my response, as I am not mad, just stating I found your assumption disrespectful. Welcome to the forum, and I look forward to reading your further threads. With the exception of one small part, I found it extremely point on, informative, and well thought out.

Stay Frosty!
Stormfeather


As a current service member myself, I agree with your post 100% Stormfeather.

[The Stig]

Welcome aboard and thanks for making such a well thought out and detailed post. We appreciate that you took the time to put it together for us. Lots of good thoughts in there.

I'm working from the assumption that you are categorizing SHTF to mean one specific type of event, that is a total catastrophic meltdown. Guessing from your post I think this is the direction you were going. If I'm incorrect my apologies.

SHTF events can be anything from mildly annoying to massive societal collapse where the world is thrust back into the stone age. It is a mistake to categorize SHTF as one monolithic event.


Those people will be walking targets with black rifles with all of those delicate electronics hanging off looking ridiculous.

You mean those same "delicate electronics" that are issued to the military and used successfully in Iraq and Afghanistan? Those same black rifles that have eliminated metric boat-loads of our enemies?

While you may be a traditionalist, those silly little rifles have dispatched oodles and oodles of our nations enemies and survived in the harshest environments. I wouldn't dismiss them as you appear to do here and would be just as alarmed to see my neighbors walking down the street with one of those little "toys" as if they had their grandpappys deer rifle.



These can be deadly, and you can be profiled by the things you own and what you wear. By everyone, believe it. I own maxpedition stuff but as of late I have been using less and less of anything tactical looking. Call it urban camouflage if you will, you need to look as unassuming as possible. I choose polo shirts, and durable khakis. I look well groomed and trustworthy. Would I be singled out at a roadblock? Unlikely. But take a moment and think about who would be singled out for a roadblock. Would you? Or do you know a neighbor/friend that would? I would rather look like everybody else that were caught unprepared.

If society has totally collapsed and people are roving the countryside everybody is going to be targeted, Maxpedition bag or not.

The only time the "grey man" concept makes sense is in a limited, regional disaster. For example, post hurricane. If you go cruising down main street in full battle-rattle with arms slung, then you will stand out.

Further, bad guys, and often law enforcement, profile people based on far more than just appearance. Demeanor, attitude, words used, physiology, etc are worth far more than if the guy has a Versipack instead of an old bookbag.

Just some different thoughts about your post. Again, thanks for making it and welcome aboard.

[arielsailor]

I don't mean any disrespect, and of course I respect every ones civil opinions, don't make an enemy out of me, I'm on your side. Without making any solid opinions about what exactly will happen, was based solely on the fact that not one disaster scenario is the same. The area affected, scope and severity, would have to be figured into the equations. In most any situation whether it be a hurricane, ice storm, severe flooding etc. There will be an adjustment phase where people will be bumbling about not knowing how soon things will get back to normal. This will be the critical phase for blending in, in that situation authorities will be on high alert. Problem is, who is legitimate and who isn't? That guy with a bunch of rifles in his truck, did he steal them? Are he and his friends in the process of looting? I realize there are the oath keepers, and people willing to stand up for what is right, but there is also the segment that will do what they are told without an after thought.

A civilian walking around in tactical, battle dress complete with web gear and all the newest fad gear, will be suspicious to anyone. I wasn't referring to say a 10.0 earthquake, then it wouldn't matter what you or anyone else would do because of the massive failure of infrastructure. I do know of many cases where firearms were taken, supplies and 4x4 vehicles were confiscated and requisitioned.

Someone I know personally, was holed up in his home with a few of his neighbors in Louisiana. They waited out the disaster together because it was safer and the local people enjoyed the company, living together without water or power. Safety in numbers you know. Two weeks later the neighbors decided there was enough infrastructure and clear roads to get them to the north to family they can stay with. My friend had a family to go to as well and he did not own a gun, but before they departed the neighbor gave him a spare cheap pistol to take because it would have been abandoned at the home otherwise and eventually looted.

Later I don't know exactly where, but on his way north his pistol was confiscated by police search (unconstitutional by the way) because he could not prove he owned it, it was stolen by them and now he had no way to protect himself. He even told the police that a grateful neighbor gifted it to him, they did let him go on his way without charge or incident, even after the serial turned up clean. "He should have considered himself lucky" I have heard people say. In alternative to what, arrest? Trumped up charges? Locked up indefinitely without right to speedy trial under martial law? For something that cannot be proven. So, there is a perfect example but, there is a also a bunch of similar examples on the NRA website.

Obviously none of the leo/military on this forum would think that way, but in my experience there are too many people of authority that would love to add anything shiny to their personal collection. So that unpopular excerpt was not directed to any of you. Thinking that in itself was an assumption and I was actually disappointed you immediately took it in an offensive way. Why by default on the internet we always assume the worst in people?

The thoughts I wrote, was not a college paper nor a magazine article, it wasn't entirely well thought out. But there is good thought provoking material there.
That is like starving, and then complaining about the tiny bugs in the cooked rice when it is offered. Take it for what its worth, its food for thought!

In a local, minor, regional disaster all people are likely encounter casual roadblocks at least once or twice in our lives. Thousands of people will be passing through them not giving most ordinary local people a second glance. Its not obviously not the same as say the family with a minivan-bomb logic, the goal is to keep the peace and make sure things are kept civil not tear apart vehicles looking for contraband and explosives, its not a war zone. I would like to think ordinary people will be treated with respect, but in some parts of the country I have my doubts.

As with all opinion pieces nobody isn't necessarily right or wrong. You have to take something at face value, and like this forum and without opinions nobody would have anything to discuss and it would dwindle into one line posts and one line responses, and then what would we have? Where is the fun in that? Hopefully I can be better known around here and well liked as you all eventually get used to my writing style. I am the last person to be quick to judge and I have a high tolerance level, so I hope in the future we can all be friends.

Further commentary,

Me being a traditionalist may not be very popular, but it makes sense. Marketing is a truly sinister thing, glorifying useful necessary tools into a flavor of the week venture. Not only can you kill someone, but you can do it in style! That is the way I see the marketing, it has gone beyond accessories that enhance useful tools to "this will help me kill zombies better" marketing. Giving unpopular people a hobby that would otherwise not have one (Ie. gun nerds, that have evolved in the last year or so). It is now the "in thing" to own a gun, that is irresponsibility on the peoples and marketers. To the masses firearms are now cute toys, not serious killing machines. it is simply a solution to getting things "the easy way" when things get bad. Guns should be given respect and the thought of taking someones life with it should also be taken seriously. Today morality is blurred, violence and easy bang bang solutions to complex problems are the norm. Instead of the refined, calculated thought and proper risk/reward analysis to make hasty life altering decisions.

Give me a single shot 12 gauge and I will be truly happy. That solves 99.99% of all of my real problems in life, the rest is just living. I don't want to start any kind of gun vs. gun debate but that is why the AK is my last absolute ditch gun. roll it through the mud, dive onto a gravel road the iron sights may need wiped off and in 50 years the iron sights will still be functional after being buried in a tube all that time. But that is not serious talk, I have better things to do than get into gun debates, I'm way past that stage. Lets just say simple works for me and that's the last I'll say about that.

I have personally seen a mock national guard road block, practice for who knows what. This town has a population of under 25,000. There was a desert tan Humvee in the middle of the 3 lane street with guardsmen and something I have never seen before. Actually I was confused by the lights before I came up on the road block. I had no idea what I was seeing. There on the Humvee was alternating flashing strobe lights, one in the front cab roof and one on the rear. The odd thing is that the front one was strobing a bright lime green and the rear was white like you would see on the top of a school bus. That is the first I had heard or saw anything like that. Weird right? I was actually on a different street so I did not know what the block curtailed. The local police do the usual papers please checkpoints (DUI). Bogus in my book and entire waste of taxpayers money on harassing good hardworking people and desensitizing people to the expanding police state. More busy work to keep them employed for the time being, I suppose.

Ladyhk13,

I actually got into all that when I started listening to the TSP. I think that did change my spending habits a little, but then my outlook on life was changing as well. I started listening to TSP when he only had like 9 podcasts, back in 2008 or so. Well since then I have not incurred any debt, luckily and it will stay that way. It feels great! I don't have a mortgage and I have thought of purchasing a house but I have not resigned myself to permanence as of yet. I don't think we have seen the precipice of the housing market, I refuse to buy based on speculation. I was thinking about buying cheap trailers in a park and sell them on land contracts with interest. So basically tenant pays the lot rent and if they default on payments you can just repossess the property and do it all over again. Luckily I have not been THAT bored, but I am always busy with some new wacky thing.

I have a theory, I have been purchasing things opportunistically online. I wait for a sale or a free shipping offer and hunt down the best deals. Best to not be hasty, I wait for months and there a few things I have been waiting over a year to get a deal on. But these are all the principals the debt gurus discuss and I am sure you know about.

[izzyscout21]

I don't mean any disrespect, and of course I respect every ones civil opinions, don't make an enemy out of me, I'm on your side.

While I, or others may disagree with your opinion, that doesn't mean that I think you are being disrespectful or trying to be an enemy. I know you're on our side. You're a valued member here. You took the time to write a post voicing your concerns and your opinions. Thanks for taking the time to share.

Don't be surprised if some folks here don't jump on your bandwagon, but also don't take that to mean that nobody likes you. We have our disagreements on here all the time, yet continue to function as one giant dysfunctional family. We disagree and bicker. Such is life.

Don't take this the wrong way, or be offended, I just don't agree with your thought process, and on some points I think you are way off.

When I get a chance, I'll sit down and break this down further.

[apssbc]

Excellent posts by all. As voiced before we may not all agree on the ways or opinions but we function very well here. You took the time to make a couple well thought out, well written posts. Again I may not agree with a few of your points but you overall knocked it out of the ball park IMHO. You are not an enemy here that is for sure, thanks for joining and its good to have you around.

I have gone through the stages you describe especially since I started at 17 years old. Im 24 now and am happy cause I came to the high prepping maturity level about the time I hit 20. So yes Ive made mistakes but Im happy to have been able to make those, learn from them and wisen up to how I am now.

As for your thought that areas may have officials that commit unconstututional acts I agree that some places will. However I would bet there is a majority of LEO/Mil that would outright refuse to follow such an order. Hell I think they would push to take care of those being unjust in a total collapse scenario.

Also your post on weapons somewhat confuses me. I completley understand where your coming from by compaines jumping on the zombie bandwagon and what not. I do believe guns and other items are sold because they are labled, "Zombieslayer 1000." I also agree that some folks with the maturity level of a 13 year old boy may get their hands on these. However it dosent bother me much, and I dont blame the companies for making money. This is capatilism. Think about the people that buy the Zombieslaying Plasma Blaster, most wont be an issue because they die off fast. The 400lb computer gamer who takes his first trip outside, all kitted up in his XXXXL ACU plate carrier and 70 mags will drop dead about 40' from his moms basement door. Now Im sure some will survive and some will be a nusance but they can be dealt with.

I also agree that a 12 guage solves most problems. It is good for hunting almost anything that exists in nature, self defense, breaching, and whatever else you can think of. However how do you plan to defend from the one Gamer gone bad that made it down the street to your place? If he has some skill and maybe some less desirable friends you may need something more than a single shot shotty to protect yourself and your family. Jsut some food for thought.

Thanks for joining,
Aaron

[The Stig]

I don't mean any disrespect, and of course I respect every ones civil opinions, don't make an enemy out of me, I'm on your side.

Thinking that in itself was an assumption and I was actually disappointed you immediately took it in an offensive way. Why by default on the internet we always assume the worst in people?

As with all opinion pieces nobody isn't necessarily right or wrong. You have to take something at face value, and like this forum and without opinions nobody would have anything to discuss and it would dwindle into one line posts and one line responses, and then what would we have? Where is the fun in that? Hopefully I can be better known around here and well liked as you all eventually get used to my writing style. I am the last person to be quick to judge and I have a high tolerance level, so I hope in the future we can all be friends.


Ariel,

Take a deep breath. You posted an item here that was for our thought and consideration. Nobody is making an enemy out of you or not wanting to discuss anything. There were parts of what you posted that were very good and interesting. There were parts that others or myself didn't exactly see eye to eye on. Thus we offered our opinion in return. As you say, this would be a boring place if we all agreed on everything and that is part of an "internet discussion".

Thus, when you post something (and we are very grateful that you chose to post here) it shouldn't be surprising that others will respond. It doesn't mean it's a fight or we hate you.

I'll come back in a bit after I reread your last post but I wanted to jump in right away to suggest you check your fire. Nobody is looking for a fight or wanting to argue. People were just offering their opinions of your opinions.

Again, thank you for choosing to spend time here. We appreciate it and look forward to discussing this (and many other topics) with you.

Thanks - Stig

[realist]

I agree with Stormfeather and Izzy. With regards to the roadblocks you can dress anyway you want but most of the time a roadblock is to keep people out of a disaster area. Sooo if you come upon my roadblock then you stay out period.

As for the National Guard, in our state they work with a local LEO to ensure that things are properly handled. As for training on roadblocks I would imagine that they might man one or two when they are over in the sandbox.

When it come to gun confiscation if you show up at the roadblock with a bunch of guns then you will definitely be checked out. BTW make sure they can see your hands and things will go much better. So long as they are not stolen and you have good ID then it will not be a problem. Remember the minute you start lying then they will be looking for any reason to arrest you. Why, because if you are lying to them then you must be hiding something else. Any time that a weapon is seized they should give you a receipt, which will contain a case number.

As for crooks who are LEO yes sad to say there are some out there, just like any other profession. However when it is a LEO I take that very personally and would very much like to them in prison. This is shared by everyone that I know that is in the business.

One thing that you said makes a lot of sense and that is being discreet. You are right wearing camo with face paint and carrying a rifle will get you a bunch of attention like fly on poop. If you are going to blend in then do so and act like you are supposed to normal……….. innocent…….not crazy….. Remember if you are stopped the person stopping you wants to put you one of two classes, crook or civilian, you choose......

[Stormfeather]

I don't mean any disrespect, and of course I respect every ones civil opinions, don't make an enemy out of me, I'm on your side. Without making any solid opinions about what exactly will happen, was based solely on the fact that not one disaster scenario is the same. The area affected, scope and severity, would have to be figured into the equations. In most any situation whether it be a hurricane, ice storm, severe flooding etc. There will be an adjustment phase where people will be bumbling about not knowing how soon things will get back to normal. This will be the critical phase for blending in, in that situation authorities will be on high alert. Problem is, who is legitimate and who isn't? That guy with a bunch of rifles in his truck, did he steal them? Are he and his friends in the process of looting? I realize there are the oath keepers, and people willing to stand up for what is right, but there is also the segment that will do what they are told without an after thought.

I agree that in the first day or so, this may be an issue, but as for roadblocks and mass confiscations like you mentioned in your OP, I dont see that happening. There is no segment of military thats going to do what they are told without an afterthought. There are too many checks and balances in place to allow this to happen as far as military units go. All it takes is one person to refuse orders to bring it under scrutiny. The planning process alone, before the plan is even put into action, doesnt allow for actions against the Constitution.

A civilian walking around in tactical, battle dress complete with web gear and all the newest fad gear, will be suspicious to anyone. I wasn't referring to say a 10.0 earthquake, then it wouldn't matter what you or anyone else would do because of the massive failure of infrastructure. I do know of many cases where firearms were taken, supplies and 4x4 vehicles were confiscated and requisitioned.

This too, I agree with on some points. In case of a breakdown in society, a person walking around in "battle rattle" is going to garner attention. But theres going to be so many other people clamoring to get supplies, get somewhere, or just get out, that a person in battle rattle is nothing more than a sight of someone who is more prepared than others. Is he a legit person, or a gear queer, or survivalist dressed for the occasion? You mentioned you know of many cases where firearms, supplies, & 4x4 vehicles where confiscated and requistioned, but I have to ask, was this personal experience, or was this secondhand/thirdhand information? Myself, I was there for Katrina, from Levy break -3 days to 270 days afterwards. So all of my experience is firsthand, been there done that got the t-shirt experience. I already discussed firearms confiscation earlier, so you know where my stand is on that. As far as supplies, if you are talking about survival supplies, there was so much of that crap floating around being given out by NGO's & GO's, there was no need to steal or commandeer it. We once made a house out of MRE boxes. Alot of folks dont know that mre's come in multitudes of styles, one of which is the humanitarian style. Totally different than military style for those that dont know. We had over 6000 cases of them in our staging area alone! We actually made a full size house, with actual rooms, and furniture out of the stuff one day when we were off-duty and totally bored. Now, as for vehicles, yes, there was quite a few vehicles commandeered, and that was with federal command authority and full reimbursement to the dealerships we got them from. And to be honest, the word commandeered is actually not even correct. The dealership knew we were coming and had all the paperwork in hand for us to sign. We took every 4x4 vehicle they had on the lot, placarded them, and used them in the relief effort. All of the dealerships this happened at was paid in full within 2 weeks of it happening. The reason I know this was I was one of the head PSD Sgt's for the FEMA comptroller. I was privy to quite a bit of information regarding finances of what was being paid out those first few months. .

Someone I know personally, was holed up in his home with a few of his neighbors in Louisiana. They waited out the disaster together because it was safer and the local people enjoyed the company, living together without water or power. Safety in numbers you know. Two weeks later the neighbors decided there was enough infrastructure and clear roads to get them to the north to family they can stay with. My friend had a family to go to as well and he did not own a gun, but before they departed the neighbor gave him a spare cheap pistol to take because it would have been abandoned at the home otherwise and eventually looted.

Later I don't know exactly where, but on his way north his pistol was confiscated by police search (unconstitutional by the way) because he could not prove he owned it, it was stolen by them and now he had no way to protect himself. He even told the police that a grateful neighbor gifted it to him, they did let him go on his way without charge or incident, even after the serial turned up clean. "He should have considered himself lucky" I have heard people say. In alternative to what, arrest? Trumped up charges? Locked up indefinitely without right to speedy trial under martial law? For something that cannot be proven. So, there is a perfect example but, there is a also a bunch of similar examples on the NRA website.

Obviously none of the leo/military on this forum would think that way, but in my experience there are too many people of authority that would love to add anything shiny to their personal collection. So that unpopular excerpt was not directed to any of you. Thinking that in itself was an assumption and I was actually disappointed you immediately took it in an offensive way. Why by default on the internet we always assume the worst in people?

It was taken in a offensive way, due to the way it was presented, as making anyone who wears a uniform that is a first responder or military, is there to be a jack booted thug to do the bidding of the govt with no thoughts of conscience to its actions.

The thoughts I wrote, was not a college paper nor a magazine article, it wasn't entirely well thought out. But there is good thought provoking material there.
That is like starving, and then complaining about the tiny bugs in the cooked rice when it is offered. Take it for what its worth, its food for thought!

In a local, minor, regional disaster all people are likely encounter casual roadblocks at least once or twice in our lives. Thousands of people will be passing through them not giving most ordinary local people a second glance. Its not obviously not the same as say the family with a minivan-bomb logic, the goal is to keep the peace and make sure things are kept civil not tear apart vehicles looking for contraband and explosives, its not a war zone. I would like to think ordinary people will be treated with respect, but in some parts of the country I have my doubts.

I think people will be fine in the rural areas, major population centers, not so much. It will be treated as a war zone in a large scale disaster. Localized, or regional disaster, you should be fine.

As with all opinion pieces nobody isn't necessarily right or wrong. You have to take something at face value, and like this forum and without opinions nobody would have anything to discuss and it would dwindle into one line posts and one line responses, and then what would we have? Where is the fun in that? Hopefully I can be better known around here and well liked as you all eventually get used to my writing style. I am the last person to be quick to judge and I have a high tolerance level, so I hope in the future we can all be friends.

I look forward to reading more of your posts and hope to see much more of you around here.

Further commentary,

Me being a traditionalist may not be very popular, but it makes sense. Marketing is a truly sinister thing, glorifying useful necessary tools into a flavor of the week venture. Not only can you kill someone, but you can do it in style! That is the way I see the marketing, it has gone beyond accessories that enhance useful tools to "this will help me kill zombies better" marketing. Giving unpopular people a hobby that would otherwise not have one (Ie. gun nerds, that have evolved in the last year or so). It is now the "in thing" to own a gun, that is irresponsibility on the peoples and marketers. To the masses firearms are now cute toys, not serious killing machines. it is simply a solution to getting things "the easy way" when things get bad. Guns should be given respect and the thought of taking someones life with it should also be taken seriously. Today morality is blurred, violence and easy bang bang solutions to complex problems are the norm. Instead of the refined, calculated thought and proper risk/reward analysis to make hasty life altering decisions.

Give me a single shot 12 gauge and I will be truly happy. That solves 99.99% of all of my real problems in life, the rest is just living. I don't want to start any kind of gun vs. gun debate but that is why the AK is my last absolute ditch gun. roll it through the mud, dive onto a gravel road the iron sights may need wiped off and in 50 years the iron sights will still be functional after being buried in a tube all that time. But that is not serious talk, I have better things to do than get into gun debates, I'm way past that stage. Lets just say simple works for me and that's the last I'll say about that.

I have personally seen a mock national guard road block, practice for who knows what. This town has a population of under 25,000. There was a desert tan Humvee in the middle of the 3 lane street with guardsmen and something I have never seen before. Actually I was confused by the lights before I came up on the road block. I had no idea what I was seeing. There on the Humvee was alternating flashing strobe lights, one in the front cab roof and one on the rear. The odd thing is that the front one was strobing a bright lime green and the rear was white like you would see on the top of a school bus. That is the first I had heard or saw anything like that. Weird right? I was actually on a different street so I did not know what the block curtailed. The local police do the usual papers please checkpoints (DUI). Bogus in my book and entire waste of taxpayers money on harassing good hardworking people and desensitizing people to the expanding police state. More busy work to keep them employed for the time being, I suppose.

Just to point out, if the above situation was in support of a DUI checkpoint, it would have been in violation of the Posse Commitus Act. More than likely, was happened or what you witnessed was a national guard unit practicing for a upcoming mobilization. There are plenty of times where units practicing for a mobilization overseas, have done so in towns all across the USA. When this happens, there is plenty of heads up given to the local population, and its restricted to a few block radius. I had the pleasure of participating in one of these exercises in Pleasanton California, where the city actually requested to be chosen to be used as a training area for a local unit getting ready to mobilize up for a deployment. It goes to show the local population cares that its sons and daughters going into harms way enough to use its city streets as a training area. I was amazed at the amount of local citizens who came out to help out with everything from role players, to setting up refreshment stands for the soldiers and citizens alike.

Ladyhk13,

I actually got into all that when I started listening to the TSP. I think that did change my spending habits a little, but then my outlook on life was changing as well. I started listening to TSP when he only had like 9 podcasts, back in 2008 or so. Well since then I have not incurred any debt, luckily and it will stay that way. It feels great! I don't have a mortgage and I have thought of purchasing a house but I have not resigned myself to permanence as of yet. I don't think we have seen the precipice of the housing market, I refuse to buy based on speculation. I was thinking about buying cheap trailers in a park and sell them on land contracts with interest. So basically tenant pays the lot rent and if they default on payments you can just repossess the property and do it all over again. Luckily I have not been THAT bored, but I am always busy with some new wacky thing.

I have a theory, I have been purchasing things opportunistically online. I wait for a sale or a free shipping offer and hunt down the best deals. Best to not be hasty, I wait for months and there a few things I have been waiting over a year to get a deal on. But these are all the principals the debt gurus discuss and I am sure you know about.

As I mentioned before, you have a great many good points, and I look forward to discussing them with you in the future! Keep up the good work and flow of information!

[Grumpy Old Man]

Your poin0ts are well taken! Welcome aboard!

[Grumpy Old Man]

*points, fat fingers

[Stormfeather]

Fatty Fingers!!!!

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

Damn, that was a mind full. OK I agree to disagree. Welcome Aboard and way to stir it up! I think alot of things have already been said I just wanted to say that my head hurts. I concur with Stormfeather on many points having operated that particular shit hole in that time frame. Lovely crowd I might add. But I'll have echo that military and LEO alike will not all follow all orders that are deemed "Unconstitutional" However there is a matter of a little citizens army being formed working under FEMA and the current administration that will follow those orders. Now that's where the problem will arise. I've been expanding my mind, I've been reading the government procurement lists. You'd be amazed at what they've been up to. Some of the lectures, security requirments and power points alone are just ah......well we don't discuss that stuff here. Unless you want me to.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

OK, after thinking about this, I think the point that was really trying to be made by some of members was. What you and the gen pop don't think about is the Military and LEO's alike have what you call a conscious, we have morals. In other words the ability to determine the rightness or wrongness of actions. Or the Unlawful dictated orders passed down by the senior(I don't use the word superior, that's reserved) chain of command. They/we are humans and will make the right decisions. Therefore you cannot pass judgement on them. They are people like you and me, they have families too. Without rambling they will think MORALITY. This is AMERICA not CHINA or the SOVIET UNION. So be careful what you assume is what we are trying to say.

[Stormfeather]

OK, after thinking about this, I think the point that was really trying to be made by some of members was. What you and the gen pop don't think about is the Military and LEO's alike have what you call a conscious, we have morals. In other words the ability to determine the rightness or wrongness of actions. Or the Unlawful dictated orders passed down by the senior(I don't use the word superior, that's reserved) chain of command. They/we are humans and will make the right decisions. Therefore you cannot pass judgement on them. They are people like you and me, they have families too. Without rambling they will think MORALITY. This is AMERICA not CHINA or the SOVIET UNION. So be careful what you assume is what we are trying to say.

The problem with my being a knuckle-dragging neanderthal infantry, is that we sometimes cant/dont get our point across unless we have a couple of thousand rounds of 7.62 to back it up! This is exactly what I was trying to say!

Thanks BWRR for so eloquently elaborating on my oratory expression!

- - - Updated - - -


. . . . However there is a matter of a little citizens army being formed working under FEMA and the current administration that will follow those orders. Now that's where the problem will arise. . . . ..

Would love to pick your brain about this one! It can be offline, online or PM, your choice!

[bacpacker]

Thats a discussion I would love to hear!

[greg48]

i never knew i was a prepper. i always thought myself a survivor. alot of my efforts come from time spent in the service. i miss those days. much of what i do as a "prepper" is guided by my military experiences. i been wondering does anyone else find themselves loading their go bags similar to how they loaded their ruck sacks? poncho certain place, socks here, shaving kit gotta be there etc...

[mitunnelrat]

I used to, and I've seen that others have as well. It seems like many of us eventually start looking at how our missions and support structure have changed though, and gear evolutions are often made accordingly. I've heard that said as "the mission drives the gear", and that makes sense to me. My "mission(s)" today center around reaching home or some other center of safety, and being able to do so alone and on foot if need be. Its a far cry from my role in a mechanized unit...

Now, with that said, I do think its important to learn how to pack a ruck properly, which means having a place for everything. I've noticed it will make a huge difference in how the pack rides, and impacts my ability and willingness to hump it for any length of time.

[greg48]

i spent several years in a recon plt, one lesson learned that would be of a benefit in a SHTF, getting used to working in the dark, being able to locate things in your pack in the dark, travelling in blackout conditions, it may be necessary to travel at nite. [i tease my wif e alot about needing a flashlight] once again i'm just adding to.

[Stormfeather]

Greg48. . . USMC or Army?

[greg48]

Greg48. . . USMC or Army?

INARNG=23+ yrs. 11B Infantry
2 tours OIF USARMY '03-04, '08
about half my career was in the recon/scout plt
the other half was in heavy weapons, anti-armor plt.
I've a daughter in an avaition unit, she's MI, have a son in an Airborne LRRP Unit.
my daughter has been to Iraq and Afgan, my son has not been across the big pond
yet.

[greg48]

INARNG=23+ yrs. 11B Infantry
2 tours OIF USARMY '03-04, '08
about half my career was in the recon/scout plt
the other half was in heavy weapons, anti-armor plt.
I've a daughter in an avaition unit, she's MI, have a son in an Airborne LRRP Unit.
my daughter has been to Iraq and Afgan, my son has not been across the big pond
yet.

[i was a nsaty leg, holding up a chickens ass] yes i was "just in the guard" i think i learned a couple things along the way. the hajis shooting at me and blowing up my trucks didnt' know i was "just in the guard...
stormfeather; in our recon/scout platoon we usually had enough marines to fill a squad.