Data Protection

[mitunnelrat]

I'm doing it wrong. Both my desktop and laptop have been in for work, and I was told the tech guy had never seen so many viruses as my laptop had. The desktop wasn't much better. I blamed it on buying them both used, but just ran into some trouble again last night, to find my laptop's hard drive crashed and data inaccessible this morning. AVG alerted me of a trojan after the damage was done.

I've been using Windows Vista because it was loaded on the computer when I bought it, and it lets me game. I now think I'll put that on hold and load Ubuntu again.

Since it appears to be web searching getting me in trouble, does anyone have any recommendations on freeware firewalls/ AV protection for linux systems? Are there any other products/ actions you're taking that improve your security?

What about those of you operating a Windows OS? Have you found any one security protocol as more effective than another? For all the talk of OPSEC, how many of you know exactly how vulnerable you are through your web interactions and activities?

I'm now realize I'm not as protected as I thought.

[Stg1swret]

I've worked IT support for over 15 years, I do not store any data on my PC. It is all on DVD/CD's and thumb drives. I re-do my OS every 6 months.

[RedJohn]

I've worked IT support for over 15 years, I do not store any data on my PC. It is all on DVD/CD's and thumb drives. I re-do my OS every 6 months.

DVD/CD tend to fade with the years. I keep my data on multiple HDD. Recently, I moved everything on a personal NAS for RAID added security. And I am totally with you on the re-do of the machine. I do it 2 or 3 times a year. I have sped up the process though by doing a Ghost copy of my drive at the initial status. I just have to apply the ghost (about 10 minutes) apply the updates then ghost again for the next time. I also always ghost my factory drive, just in case.

Of course, experience and loss of inestimable data lead me to that method.

[bacpacker]

Note to self: learn how to ghost system!
I am always having issues with malwar/spyware/virus this sounds like a great way to work around and fixin the problems.

[RedJohn]

Note to self: learn how to ghost system!

I use Norton (Backup Software - File Recovery | Norton Ghost (http://us.norton.com/ghost))

[Twitchy]

External 120 GB SSD for my important stuff... everything else on the factory drive.

[RedJohn]

External 120 GB SSD for my important stuff... everything else on the factory drive.

I can tell you, having lived thru it, that this is not enough unless you move very fast after either one crashes.

I plugged my external drive in the wrong outlet. I fried the external drive. 5 days later, I still had not purchased replacement for that drive, when the computer drive failed. That day, I lost definitely 10 years worth of data. You never make this mistake twice.

[AlphaTea]

about 5 years ago I switched to Ubuntu (Linux).
I made a duel boot system with my WinXP system. I gotta say the only time I don't use linux is to make labels on a Brother P-Touch label printer which doesnt have any linux drivers. BFD
I have no virus worries and yes I do have virus software I run weekly JIC. My 6year old Athlon 1GHz with 512MB memory is like WARP speed faster than the latest speed box we have at work.
I have a RAID 10 setup (I think)
The software is FREE and includes Open Office. It will all fit on a CDR with room to spare. The OS can be run from a USB stick or the CD if you want. You can even run a fair amount of Windows software.
Did I mention that it was free?

[RedJohn]

All my servers are in Ubuntu these days, but I cannot have a desktop like this. there are too many applications that I must use that are windows only. One day maybe.

[RedJohn]

We just had to talk about it. I erased my computer today and redid it all. Switched to 64bit this time. I am good until October now.

[mitunnelrat]

I was able to use a restore point and recover everything, and decided to install Norton rather than switch to Ubuntu right now. I'll make the switch after I get a dedicated gaming computer. Yes, I am a geek. Now its time to learn more about and implement the recommendations above. I feel pretty dumb for not doing more before now, but I keep forgetting as I jump right to the fun stuff.

[godisnum1]

I personally use the free version of Avast Antivirus. I've used most all of the paid subscription antivirus programs over the years... and ended up with a virus at some point with all of them. I started using AVG for a year or two and it worked great, but then it had a conflict with one of the programs I used frequently, so I switched over to Avast about 6 years ago and have never looked back. I've had a ton of virus "attempts", but Avast always catches them and blocks the infected connection. The primary feature of Avast is that it allows you to do a boot-time scan... which completely scans your computer BEFORE the operating system and all the programs (including the viruses) are able to start. The other two primary programs I use to make sure my computer stays working smooth is IObit Malware Fighter Beta (which runs in the start bar with Avast) and I run scans with Spybot Search & Destroy from time to time as well. I also have everything backed up to my 2TB Western Digital MyBook Elite... so my files are secure.

Bran <><

[RedJohn]

Beware of the biggest disc these days. 2TB is usually 2 x 1TB mounted in a RAID 0. This means that if you break a disk, the other is useless. That being said single disk recovery is about $300, RAID disk recovery is over $2000. I paid 3500€ (about $5000) to recover a LaCie disk in RAID.

[mitunnelrat]

I just uninstalled Windows Vista and installed Ubuntu. Off I go now to their forums to learn how to use it again! I know already I need to get a flash player installed, and hopefully I can get through installing my game through WINE. If I can I'll be ecstatic.

[ghowe1]

I didn't see anything on this thread or forum about protecting your electronic equipment from the very real potential of electromagnetic pulse, either from an EMP device or from a really big solar flare. There's a lot of info on the web about Faraday cages that you may find useful. What I did to give myself some more room was buy a metal 30 gallon can, tap a screw into the bottom rim and run the insulated wire out to my electrical systems ground rod. Everything in the can is seperately contained in cardboard boxes to prevent actual contact with the can. In the event of an EMP, my stuff will survive. Admittedly, there may be no one to communicate with, so I also have four of those small hunting buddy type walkie talkies to facilitate commo within my own area.

[bacpacker]

I didn't see anything on this thread or forum about protecting your electronic equipment from the very real potential of electromagnetic pulse, either from an EMP device or from a really big solar flare. There's a lot of info on the web about Faraday cages that you may find useful. What I did to give myself some more room was buy a metal 30 gallon can, tap a screw into the bottom rim and run the insulated wire out to my electrical systems ground rod. Everything in the can is seperately contained in cardboard boxes to prevent actual contact with the can. In the event of an EMP, my stuff will survive. Admittedly, there may be no one to communicate with, so I also have four of those small hunting buddy type walkie talkies to facilitate commo within my own area.

Good thoughts here. The way the sun has been kicking out stuff the last few months a CME caused EMP is a very real possibility. IIRC the solar maximum isn't until sometime next year, so we still have a ways to go yet, but the metal can route is

I haven't started on my cage, but the metal can is what I'm building as well. I've got some ham gear and a laptop and netbook that's going in it. I don't have all the boxes, but I think bubble wrap will work ok to insulate from the can.

What size wire did you go with for the ground? I assume you used a standard ground clamp on the rod?

[Kodiak]

I just lost my hard drive last week and was not able to recover anything from it, and being the lazy butt that i am did not have anything backed up. Lesson learned.

On a side note, does anyone here use Spybot? Its free and from what i hear does a fairly decent job getting rid of viruses and keyloggers etc.

[bacpacker]

I use Spyware Dr. It seems to work pretty well.

I got a virus years ago and it cost me a hard drive, no back up. I had just finished scanning over 1000 photo slides to the puter a few weeks before. Made me sick. Needless to say I now have 2 external HD's and back up to one from all puters monthly. So I always have the past 2 months data saved in 2 places. Important stuff goes on thumb drives as well, sometimes CD or DVD also.

[The Stig]

I run spybot search & destroy in conjunction with adaware. They are both free and do a good job catching junk.

Use Norton for firewall and virus scanner.

[dragon5126]

I'm shuddering at what I just read here, and what I am about to say IS going to tick some people off and step on some toes without any doubts so PLEASE pay attention to what I am saying befor jumping to any conclusions, as it is based on fact and experience.

RED JOHN. 2 TB is NOT 2 1 TB disks in any raid configuration. 2 1 TB disks in even raid 0 will still add up to 1 TB A single 2 TB partitioned as 2 drives can be mounted as raid 0 but should never be done as it offers no protection from hardware failure at all, the lowest level of Raid configuration that should ever be used is Raid 1 which is simple drive mirroring and requires 2 seperate but identical drives. Higher levels of raid configurations use drive interleaving and more drives so that if one drive fails it can be replaced and the data on it rebuilt from what is on the other drives. This is the beauty of raid systems, they are very CHEAP and easy to recover data from if they are configured properly to begin with. I have personally done it numerous times at work and at home, for friends who were not aware of what I am about to say.
BEWARE OF YOUR ANTIVIRUS! The big name players are the worst. BECAUSE they are the big name players. The first part is of the problem is bloatware which creates issues with other software. The second issue comes in the fact that the challenge for the virus writers is to damage and break the big name antivirus. Nortons and MaCafee are the worst in both of these areas. Neither one monitors ahead of your computer, it only checks after the virus is ON your computer. Their packet inspection routines fail all department of defense and department of energy tests and standards Of all the commercial packages there are only two that in my experience work. The first is Computer Associates, this group was not originally interested in the consumer market and developed it's product for business users and it spread. The other is System Mechanic and it's other associated products that use the same antivirus engine. If you use Roadrunner the Computer Associates package is free for your use. Avast is an excellent freeware package BUT it's best version is NOT free. Microsoft HAD an excellent package but discontinued it. Go figure.
The other problem is people just do not use decent fire walls. Microsoft's attempts at a fire wall are best included on the dirty joke page on the back of playboy's centerfold. Because Window's firewall is not a firewall, it's more like a pile of tinder and kindling. If you need a GREAT firewall, the best is free, google up ZONE ALARM...
AS I said I KNOW someone is going to disagree, BUT, these are measures we use at the State Crime Lab to protect the equipment we use for research and have zero problems. Personally I have been working on IBM based (Intel) equipment since 1982,at home and work, and have found this out for myself personally as well as on a professional basis, so I have to go on the fact that what I have personally learned was reinforced with experience at work.

[RedJohn]

RED JOHN. 2 TB is NOT 2 1 TB disks in any raid configuration. 2 1 TB disks in even raid 0 will still add up to 1 TB A single 2 TB partitioned as 2 drives can be mounted as raid 0 but should never be done as it offers no protection from hardware failure at all, the lowest level of Raid configuration that should ever be used is Raid 1 which is simple drive mirroring and requires 2 seperate but identical drives. Higher levels of raid configurations use drive interleaving and more drives so that if one drive fails it can be replaced and the data on it rebuilt from what is on the other drives. This is the beauty of raid systems, they are very CHEAP and easy to recover data from if they are configured properly to begin with. I have personally done it numerous times at work and at home, for friends who were not aware of what I am about to say.

Well, you may have done that numerous times at home, but I do that for a living.

Most external 2TB drives are in fact 2x1TB HDD mounted in RAID0 which aggregate the drives 1+1=2 and offers ZERO safety. RAID is not always synonymous to DATA SAFETY although only RAID0 is a real problem at that level. I was also talking about the fact that if the CONTROLLER break, no matter what level RAID you have you may have trouble recovering your data.

Even if I agree that RAID0 is not a safe mounting, it is a useful one if you wish to have bigger drives and this is the method used in most 2TB external drives.

For people not familiar with RAID, please read the following: RAID - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID)

[dragon5126]

Well, you may have done that numerous times at home, but I do that for a living.

Most external 2TB drives are in fact 2x1TB HDD mounted in RAID0 which aggregate the drives 1+1=2 and offers ZERO safety. RAID is not always synonymous to DATA SAFETY although only RAID0 is a real problem at that level. I was also talking about the fact that if the CONTROLLER break, no matter what level RAID you have you may have trouble recovering your data.

Even if I agree that RAID0 is not a safe mounting, it is a useful one if you wish to have bigger drives and this is the method used in most 2TB external drives.

For people not familiar with RAID, please read the following: RAID - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID) First off you need to reread what I wrote, I said that I have done it at home as well as at the lab. I'm not going to go into arguing it with you but as I do regular forensic data recovery, I have no doubt that I would come out on top on this one.
I am yet to see any of the 2 TB externals that use multiple drives with the exception of the NAS setups that were out prior to the 2 TB disks proving their reliability. This is particularly true since most of them are 100% port powered and are USB connected. As for controllers going down, raid is raid is raid, as long as you have a sufficent number of drives to meet the required specs for the raid level that it was originally set up on and the new controller meets that level it's pretty much plug and play, with off the shelf components. I done it so often I can do it in my sleep. You are correct that a Raid 0 does hide individual drive sizes and masks them as one drive, however this creates more problems than it solves as drive maintenance suddenly becomes a substantial time consuming task, more than tripling the time that it would take per a single 1TB drive as in the given example, there by causing an increase of maintenance time by 50% and removing the ability to split the task in half as you would be able to do with two singular drives, and in most instances the large 2TB Raid 0 drive would end up partitioned down to more managable sizes for practical purposes anyway, which creates other problems... so unless you are in a situation where you need a singularly large drive using Raid 0 is no more a valid option than that of using the old "drive space" compression scheme, it's dangerous for your data and should not be done. And this comes from Wester Digital, Seagate, Toshiba and Hitachi, the top four drive manufacturers in the industry, not just from myself.

[RedJohn]

I'll just give you an example then: http://www.amazon.com/G-Technology-External-Firewire-Interfaces-0G00271/dp/B002Q887BS
Go down to the technical description


Technical Specifications

Interface: 1x 3Gbit, eSATA, 2x FireWire 800 (9-pin), 1x USB2.0, FireWire 400 via included cable
Disk Drives: 2 x SATA II
RPM: 7200
Cache: Up to 32MB per drive
Cooling System: Thermo-regulated, quiet smart fan
RAID Controller: Hardware RAID 0 – Oxford 936 chipset
Size (LxWxH): 9.25" x 5.125" x 2.875" / 235 x 130 x 73 mm
Weight: 3.85 lbs / 1.75 kg
System Requirements: eSATA / FireWire 800 / USB 2.0: Mac OSX 10.3.x or higher, Windows 2000/XP/Vista


There are many other drives like this one.

[The Stig]

This might be the most incomprehensible pissing match ever.

[izzyscout21]

they both lost me at "data protection"......

[Twitchy]

I've seen these 2 TB externals... Red John is right, most of them are simply 2 drives running RAID0...

[dragon5126]

if you notice it's only Mac OSX that sees it as a single disk, but that is the operating system not the drive, it needs ot be REFORMATTED for windows use... so rather than confuse Stig any further lets just drop it at the fact that we agree raid 0 sucks

[RedJohn]

if you notice it's only Mac OSX that sees it as a single disk, but that is the operating system not the drive, it needs ot be REFORMATTED for windows use... so rather than confuse Stig any further lets just drop it at the fact that we agree raid 0 sucks

Yeah, Windows has some weird 2TB limit on some things. Mac and Linux see them right away.

[dragon5126]

Ya know RJ we need to get to gether some time with a couple cases of beer, and over flow our bladders, so we can show these guys what a real "pissing match" is...

[RedJohn]

Ya know RJ we need to get to gether some time with a couple cases of beer, and over flow our bladders, so we can show these guys what a real "pissing match" is...

Coffee will do that to me better, and because I don't drink alcohol, but it will be with pleasure.

[dragon5126]

Coffee will do that to me better, and because I don't drink alcohol, but it will be with pleasure.
I enjoy Coffee more than beer, so thats a go!

[izzyscout21]

I enjoy Coffee more than beer, so thats a go!

Looks like we have a...ready for it...."man-date"... du-dum-tiss....that was probably only funny to me.....

[dragon5126]

careful Izz, you still have a couple marriage proposals pending!

[izzyscout21]

aw....dang...ya caught me!!lol

[dragon5126]

Man I love you guys!

[RedJohn]

And I am not playing that side ... not that there is anything wrong with it.

[Stormfeather]

ok, so with the Raid, does that kill the bugs & virus's I have? Im just wondering. . . cause Im still not sure where to spray this stuff. . . . . .

Data protection, well, got a few thumb drives with all pertinent paperwork, wills, trusts, SS cards, birth records, internet PW;s ect ect, thats about as far as I went with it.

[Stormfeather]

This might be the most incomprehensible pissing match ever.

Yup, I got nothing on these guys!