Another shooting

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

Some of you might remember my "opinions" on all this. But here we are again with another shooting all within this week. Without going into my tangent I'm going into "How the hell does this relate to our PREPS?" Well I'll tell ya sports fans. The gun ban bill is in the wing walls yet again but with much more detail than the old Brady bill. Those of us that love our 2nd amendment, our right to buy personal body armor, and all things milsurp. Well you'reabout to get the thumb screws clamped down on us and mighty tight to the point where our thumbs will be useless. As the white House Press Sec. Jay Carney, Two faced, Jeremaih P. Lipshits two steps on TV right now. It's only a matter of time before this administration begins doing the "goose step" (right now they are talking in the 20's at the elementary school)

Months back there was this rash of shootings as you recall. Well......... I was having a conspiracy theory fit over those........I still do thinking it's justification from some nuts just to prove that Americans don't need freedoms (guns) rights, etc. Well it's going to work if this keeps up. I can't explain the thought process of these lunatics but I can say that if this continues the current administration will make sure that we will not be able to make purchases like we are able to today. This of course again is great for the "Guns and Ammo" companies as well as the accessory outfits. But people I'm really getting pissed about these idiots! I'm not telling you to go out and buy everything, I'm just saying, I'm just fuckin pissed off, DO YOU GET ME?

Now my heart goes out to the innocent children and adults and if I were to ever be in the presence of ANY said incident or incidents, may GOD have mercy on his or her soul for I will not! For it my duty to put the SOB's down..............I'm just sick of this shit!

Not one of these bastards ever deserves to see the inside of a courtroom........ FUCKIN BASTARDS

[prepguide]

Thoughts out to the families. I fear this will be used as an example of why we "need" gun control...grrr

[Sniper-T]

Same shit happens here, and we have gun control.

[Grumpy Old Man]

I find it odd that these acts tend to occur in areas with stricter gun laws on the books. Probably the biggest prep related thing about this horrific incident is the importance of teaching your kids how to react in such a situation. There really is no safe place any longer. Situational awareness is the order of the day.

My prayers go out to the victims and their families. May Yahweh bless and comfort them.

[Sniper-T]

Think this is the link...

http://news.msn.com/us/children-among-dead-in-shooting-at-conn-school

[ak474u]

I always find it interesting how fast BATFE can report the number of weapons used, tinfoil off now, and I feel for the families, nowhere is safe. PREPARE


The most irritating part, is the number of guns, and type/calipers used are more important to the press than the shooter himself. I just watched a "gun expert" call the guns automatic weapons, which they likely weren't, due to the nature of class 3 weapons and the hoops we must jump thru to get them. I see examples all the time of idiotic sensationalism and agenda. Example: "SUV kills child crossing street". Really? Did the SUV do it? Nope, it's because libs hate SUVs. Sad

[greg48]

there is no difference between this and the woman that drove her car into a lake to drown her children. these people have a mental disorder, the method of killing is the only difference. we here in this colony know this, the liberal socialist will take every oppertunity to exploit the childrens deaths to advance the gun agenda.

[msomnipotent]

I feel sick to my stomach just thinking about it. I want to keep my daughter out of school on the 21st, not because I think the world will end ( I don't), but because some lunatic is likely to start shooting up the place. But my husband is against it, mostly because it is their holiday party. I really do not care if she misses her party when you consider the consequences.

[izzyscout21]

Why is it we have a rash of shootings right after the .gov mentions gun bans? Not tinfoil, observation.

What a coward . At least we won't have to pay for his trial. PRAYERS FOR THOSE TRAGICALY LOST. I'm stunned and saddened.Prayers that the Lord takes all of the deceased children into his arms and comforts parents/and spouses that have been left behind in this time of tragedy.
I'm rough around the edges and use foul language at times, but I am a Christian, andthis stuff angers this Christian man at a level that isn't good...

Prayers that he also lifts the veil of idiocy that liberals tend to have when referencing law abiding gun owners like us.


I'm both sickened and angry... gun free zones are the most dangerous. They are saying that a whole kindergarten class may have been murdered.
Dear God...when will we learn...what human right is more fundamental than self defense?!?!??!?!

[Evolver]

This is a sad day for all involved and it will be exploited by the Gun Control enthusiasts that are hell bent to control the gun laws without a care of that person thats behind it. If there was mandatory protection (guns) in place on site this all would NEVER have gone as far!!! My prayers go out to all that was effected by this horrific act.

[izzyscout21]

Jared Lee Loughner (Tucson,AZ) - 23 yo white male.
Adam Lanza (Newtown, CT) - 20 yo white male
James Eagan Holmes (Aurora, CO) - 24 yo white male.
Jacob Tyler Roberts (Oregon mall) - 22 yo white male
Eric David Harris (Colulumbine, CO) - 19 yo white male
Dylan Bennet Klebold (Columbine, CO) - 17 yo white male

ANyone Notice a pattern here?

[Evolver]

Yeah... I have and my concern is that some of younger generation have become desensitized by video gaming but thats just my opinion. I have played and have gotten to the point that I didn't really care what was happening around me and now that I haven't been playing for seven years (adrenaline sober) I'm looking at things differently and It's a bigger problem that some might think.

[mitunnelrat]

I've been scoffed at for the same opinion.

[The Stig]

It's amazing to me that this has happened in a state with some fairly strict gun control laws already.....yet there will be clamoring for more gun control laws.

In talking with Izzy later today I suggested that this will not stop until they find a way to outlaw wackos.

[eagle326]

Yea and we'll probably be labeled the wackos. As Izzy posted the ages and race of said people ; There's more to this than meets the eyes.
Just saying

[4suchatimeasthis]

This whole incident has me so sickened.....I have a 7yr old girl, a 4yr old girl, and a 6 mo old baby, besides the 14yr old stepson. I have a pretty good relationship with the principle of her school, and I am seriously considering stopping by her office on Monday, dropping my daughter off myself, and talking to the principle. I want to ask her this question in all seriousness; what would have happened if every principle in every school had a firearm and was proficient in it's use? Sure, it would be great if we had one for every teacher, but lets start small and head in that direction. Even if just every principle/assistant principle had a gun, and knew how to use it, how many of these nut jobs and criminals would be going into a school on a shooting spree then? You notice, these criminals, regardless of mental deficiency (or, what I consider sheer evil), never walk into a gun shop and start shooting people. They never go into a police station and start shooting people, or anywhere else that it's reasonable to assume that your target would SHOOT BACK. Of course there will be a rush to control guns, yet as a society have outlawed meth and heroine, and the criminals still get a hold of them, by golly. We could also completely outlaw guns someday, and yet criminals would still get a hold of them too. What we need is for our schools to STOP BEING WIDE OPEN TARGETS!

[realist]

I was watching CNBC, the white house will be working toward getting back the assault weapons ban. Why is it this seems to always happen whenever there is something like this. I can guarantee that had there been a gun ban this guy still would have gone out and killed people. Maybe not as many but then a bomber could have done more damage, who it to know what these types of people would do.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

I'm beginning to hear an echo on this thread............did I hear gun ban? Ladies and gents our real problem is with the society that we have created, or should I say have let be created by our elected officials. They have allowed our society to become so violent with what's on TV, the movie theaters, video games the internet. All in the name of freedom of speech. Then there is freedom to destroy religion or should I say Christianity our GOD in our schools. We don't say the Pledge of Aliegence in school the is no respect for this country or its military that protects it. We used to raise the flag and play the National Anthem every morning at school when I was growing up and to be one of the kids to raise that flag was a big damn deal! You fought tooth and nail to get that job! Sometimes there was one too! But that's cause we love this country we are nuts about it, we weren't NUTS.

But these kids haven't been taught the meaning of respect or the love of GOD. They have been shown nothing but violence and a country that doesn't give a shit about it's old people and it's military, yet it allows anyone to cross it's borders to come here and do what they want. To be a gang member to be a thug, to kill people for shoes clothes or to be on my street is fuckin cool man! Games like GRAND THEFT AUTO should be banned, that promotes more bullshit if I ever saw it. I know, I played it. Then I sat back and thought about it, kids are playing this and they think it's cool! AND WE NEED MORE GUN CONTROL??????? WTF PEOPLE?

OK seriously you, we all of us need to get off our asses tonight and combat this thing. Write your congressman/woman and tell them to fix this damn society not gun control. Fix this situation, hold people accountable, not guns, don't sit here and bitch on this thread and feel sorry for these families cause it doesn't do anybody any damn good and you know it.

If you have children, raise them, raise them right. Teach them right from wrong, teach that violence doesn't solve anything, but teach them to defend themselves. Teach them that this country was founded on GOD fearing men and women and that they used the word GOD in their lives and they say prayers. Teach them the Pledge of Aliegence and what it means, teach them that men and women fought and died for the freedoms of this country. Hug your children love them and kneel down next to them when they say their prayer tonight and say one for the children of that classroom tonight for they were innocent.

Tell them that I'm a rambling idiot...................I'm done...........peace love and no underwear.

Screw my English Izzy.....who loves ya baby? Oh and thank you all for the for the "likes" I'm still fuckin mad & I'm just glad I'm not back in Iraq for their sake......

[4suchatimeasthis]

Agreed, BWRR. I was actually thinking today, that the great state of Tennessee needs to be a guinee pig, kind of a test pilot sort of thing, and try this on for size, how about we ARM our teachers, have a MANDATORY MINIMUM of TRAINED teachers/school staff in all public TN schools. We train them, x number per school, hell, even one to start with would be a damn good deterrent to these chicken-shit criminals who prey on DEFENSELESS CHILDREN. We send them to a carry permit class, have range time be part of their other job training req's, and let it be known far and wide that in TN, the TEACHERS SHOOT BACK, ASSHOLE! Israel arms their teachers. It's high time we do the same!

I wonder what it would take, just to give it a try, try it for a year or two, in just a few counties, what kind of petition would it take to get the attention needed...Maybe some good could come from this horrific tragedy.

What would it take to make this the LAST SCHOOL SHOOTING?!!

[izzyscout21]

RiverRat is right, folks.

Write your representatives. Let your voices be heard. Stand up.

[Kodiak]

The govt & media need to start holding people accountable for their actions, stop pointing the finger and stop blaming criminal acts on gun control. It amazes me that the liberal minded people of this country think we will be safer by taking guns away from law abiding citizens. We live in bad times, where bad people want to do bad things. If we cant protect ourselves then we as a nation are truly lost.

My heart and prayers go out to the victims of this tragedy and to the families that have lost their loved ones.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

Kodiak my brother, welcome back.........I echo your thoughts but they are going to hang us out to dry this time. I think this punk just put it over the top. I know I've been ranting all day, but seriously I think there won't be any stopping it this time there will be a major fast hard push for legislation and there won't be enough resistance. Oh and no telling how much bullshit's going to be attached to this one so watch out! Man I need to go to bed, my head hurts................

[4suchatimeasthis]

Easy boys.....check this out....it's a stupid site, but I think it might cheer you up.....http://http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/12/14/1339761/hours-after-kindergarten-shooting-michigan-gop-calls-for-allowing-guns-in-schools/

[Gunfixr]

I don't really think that arming the principles, or the teachers is really the answer.
If you arm the principles, the whackjobs will simply pick the classroom that is the furthest away.
If you arm the teachers, then they will have gunfights with the whackjobs, in class, in front of and around our children.
Is that what we really want? I want my children as far away from a gunfight as I can have them, even if it means I lose from no help.

Our problem is clearly our society. Somehow, it is believed that the answer when you get pissed off, or just don't like somebody, is to kill them. And everybody around them.
No one believes that they are responsible for their actions, it's "not their fault".
Our parents are not teaching the children that the violence that permeates entertainment is just that, entertainment, and has no bearing on how the real world works.
Violence permeated entertainment when we were children, but we know that it is not real, and that violence is not the solution.
Our legal system supports and encourages the belief that no one is responsible for their actions.
"It's society's fault, you couldn't help it".
In a roundabout way, that is now true, and it needs to be changed.

Unfortunately, that same society also has only one answer to when anything goes wrong.
They universally bleat "there needs to be a law".
They will get more laws, until you need Federal permission to wipe your ass, and will go to jail if it's not done properly.
Since you cannot outlaw idiots, and they will not accept responsibility, they will continue to bleat for someone else to "take care of it".

And so they will continue to fiddle............................................ ..........

[greg48]

the senate has been debating their assault weapons bill since the election. i know most of you have seen what the proposed ban includes, everything basically that's semi auto, there are enough RINOs in the republican house if they'd attach the weapons ban to another bill say defense spending or budget spending i could see them sneaking it thru in the middle of the night.

[The Stig]

While I agree society is fully of self-absorbed people who honestly believe the universe starts and ends at their nose, let's also not forget that people didn't start doing sick things yesterday morning.

The Bath School Disaster - 1927 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster)

Vilnius School Massacre - 1925 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilnius_school_massacre)

Cokeville Elementary School Hostage Crisis - 1986 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cokeville_Elementary_School_hostage_crisis)

Sterling Hall Bombing - 1970 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterling_Hall_bombing)

Fucking nutball people have existed since the dawn of time. Shills that get on TV and bleat about "rising gun violence" are simply using a tragedy to further their agenda of disarming the masses.

[apssbc]

4such we've been fighting for years for a bill like the one on the governors desk. He's stated he is going to review it closely. He has 14 days to sign it. Now may if a bill is left unsigned after 14 days it goes into law. Because of the new year if he dosent sign it in the next 13 we will lose the bill to a pocket veto. The GOP is pushing it but well see it at the hands of our governor which is a little scary.

[Evolver]

I for one (if I still had kids in school) would feel comforted that when they're away at school they also would be protected.


http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/12/14/1339761/hours-after-kindergarten-shooting-michigan-gop-calls-for-allowing-guns-in-schools/

By Zack Beauchamp on Dec 14, 2012 at 4:36 pm

Hours after the terrible shooting in a Newtown, Connecticut elementary school, the Michigan House Republicans issued demanded that Governor Rick Snyder (R) sign a bill that would make it easier for people to receive a gun permit and open up “gun free zones,” including schools. A statement attributed to Press Secretary Ari B. Adler shrugged off any link between guns in schools and school shootings:

What happened in Connecticut, however, is not because of nor related in any way to actions taken by the Michigan House yesterday in approving Senate Bill 59. …

It is the belief of many representatives in our caucus that it is criminals who have no intention of following any law that are the perpetrators of such heinous crimes as school shootings. Strict gun-control laws do not stop criminals from committing evil acts, they merely infringe on the rights of law-abiding citizens who might be able to take action against evil if given the chance.

The vast majority of mass killers in the United States use legally acquired weapons. A significant body of evidence suggests the wide availability of guns is strongly linked with higher murder rates.

Adler’s statement concludes by saying “Regardless of where anyone stands on the gun-rights debate, however, we will encourage everyone to try to refrain from politicizing the tragedy in Connecticut.”

[izzyscout21]

The more I think about it, homeschooling is looking better and better.

[realist]

Gun free zones..........they really have worked good haven't they? When we living a fairy tail land everything will be alright.

It is the calm before the storm. This morning on the news they were talking about how Obama and Boehner are both shying away from the gun control issue. However, never to let a good crisis go wasted Bloomberg criticized both of them.....

[izzyscout21]

Agreed, BWRR. I was actually thinking today, that the great state of Tennessee needs to be a guinee pig, kind of a test pilot sort of thing, and try this on for size, how about we ARM our teachers, have a MANDATORY MINIMUM of TRAINED teachers/school staff in all public TN schools. We train them, x number per school, hell, even one to start with would be a damn good deterrent to these chicken-shit criminals who prey on DEFENSELESS CHILDREN. We send them to a carry permit class, have range time be part of their other job training req's, and let it be known far and wide that in TN, the TEACHERS SHOOT BACK, ASSHOLE! Israel arms their teachers. It's high time we do the same!

I wonder what it would take, just to give it a try, try it for a year or two, in just a few counties, what kind of petition would it take to get the attention needed...Maybe some good could come from this horrific tragedy.

What would it take to make this the LAST SCHOOL SHOOTING?!!

I don't necessarily think that arming teachers is the answer.
I wish it were that simple.

Things like this won't stop until you can predict and control the actions of sociopaths.

[greg48]

agreed, izzy, there is no difference between this event and the woman driving her car into a lake and drowning her own children. both are obviously mentally ill. some are looking for attention, others?

[The Stig]

I don't necessarily think that arming teachers is the answer.
I wish it were that simple.

Things like this won't stop until you can predict and control the actions of sociopaths.

And while I'd greatly prefer LiL Stigs teachers be able to fight back against an attacker, the reality is very few possess the mental wherewithal to "flip the switch" and go into fighting mode. Hell, we can barely get most gun owners to take a damn training class. You really think the majority of teachers are suddenly going to become undercover ninjas?

The reality is people are fucking nuts. They snap. They go high-order. The quicker we identify someone who is nutty and get them the treatment they need (instead of pretending they are normal) the less of these incidents you will have.

Doesn't stop the totally normal dude who just goes bananas of course.

[The Stig]

Happy Land Social Club - 1990 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Land_fire)

22 years ago

87 people killed

Not a single gun was used.

Unbalanced people are the problem, not inanimate objects.

[The Stig]

I'm curious.....we have a few members who are in other countries. How do other countries view the US and their gun situation?

[Metrocruiser]

From what I remember as a child and teen, your laws have changed alot. I remember 30+ years ago Canadians talking about how it was every Americans right to bear arms. But now it seems it has changed alot. More restrictive, have those restrictions changed anything for the better?
I was surprised when I first started back into my gun hobby earlier this year that there was a CALI ban on AR-15s.......it baffles me as to why, whats the diff between an ar and a SIG? or a Ruger mini 14?
I suppose it gets certain people votes.

The way I see it, if there are more gun laws, then more of the wrong criminal whacko type people will have them for the wrong reasons than the responsible lawful people having them for the right reasons. There always has to be balance.

I was watching Doomsday Preppers yesterday and this buff firefighter from NYC was learning knife fighting from an Israeli commando because guns are prohibited in NY? I was thinking OMG if the SHTF and someone armed with a gun kicks in his apartment door is he ever in for a world of hurt.
However it did look awesome and I think I may try a course in knife fighting, cutting off zombie heads seems to be a good move.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

OK, so today it's schools.........how come we weren't discussing armed guards at movie theaters? This is only because there were a classroom full of children. This is all shooting from the hip, reaction from from an action. Murphy's law: Anything that can happen....will. It did and it will happen again.

Did any of you happen to hear about the teachers and their acts of heroism? There were some seriously brave people there at that school.

The thing that sickens me the most right now is the reporters. I would never let anyone near my child after an incident like this. There would be more news of "Parent beats down reporter news at 6" These leaches are sick and stupid! I'd like to beat the crap out of all of them that can't ask a real question and they don't know shit about weapons. All they do is .............ah fuck it man I can do this any more.They need to leave these people alone. I hated them during the war over in Iraq I still hate them now, fuckin pricks

[mitunnelrat]

I haven't seen more than a few minutes of actual coverage on this, so I haven't heard much of anything at all, actually. Little more than the base details. Largely because I was "detained elsewhere" for the duration, and busy this morning. I still have no doubt there were some fine folks in that school doing everything they could to keep the kids safe.

Still, there is a difference between school's and movie theaters in my mind. They're part of a larger split between those locations where we have our dependents with us and provide for and protect them personally - and locations where we are separated from them, entrusting others to provide for and protect them for us. Parents can choose whether or not they will even patronize a movie theater, let alone whether or not they'll carry and (if possible) engage a threat if one materializes. That choice isn't theirs to make in schools. Since you're right, and it will happen again, I feel there should be some system in place to proactively deter and effectively react to such a threat.

As for the reporters questioning the children, and victims' families, I can only imagine. That is one segment of the report I can do without seeing. Pisses me off every time.

By the way, I will be drafting a letter to my government representatives tonight, once I've got the information I need assembled and straight.

[4suchatimeasthis]

It is my understanding that in Israel, the teachers are armed. And guess what, no school shootings, EVER!

- - - Updated - - -

You can't convince me that trained and armed adults in a school wouldn't be a deterrent to school shootings. And yes, obviously the teachers/staff would have to be trained. This doesn't mean it would have to be every teacher, or every class. But if a shooter knows where will be someone shooting back, that is a whole other ball game then just a class full of kindergarteners, and a teacher armed with, what, a dry erase marker? So the teachers who aren't comfortable with a gun could use a tazer. It's the same principle of peace through greater fire power. If we are the biggest dog on the block, the little ankle nippers leave us alone. If we are helpless and defenseless, we are targets to every sicko out there.

[mitunnelrat]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9746935/Teachers-sacrificed-themselves-to-save-their-pupils.html

Miss Soto, who had taught at the school for five years was described by one of her deeply distraught 10-year-old pupils as ‘really nice and funny’, was trying to shield her students and usher them into a closet when she came face-to-face with the gunman.


We were there for about five minutes chatting and we heard, 'pop pop pop',” she said. “I went under the table.”

But the principal and the school psychologist ran toward the sound of the gunfire with complete disregard for their own safety.

“They didn’t think twice about confronting or seeing what was going on,” Ms Day said.

This article has numerous examples of various staff members acting admirably in the face of danger.

[Metrocruiser]

My son just started kindergarten this year and I have been amazed at how lax things are at this school. Why would the school be so defenseless that anyone could walk in and kidnap or take hostage the most precious people on the planet?
It would never happen here in Canada, but I agree that schools should have a higher level of security. I think 7/11 has better security than most schools. GEEZ, get some cameras that log license plate numbers, get cameras that send photos to the assholes that speed by during school hours, get hallway cams that log all who come and go, get a plain clothed guard or two patrolling 2 or 3 schools in the area, it has to start somewhere.

At our school there are so many Ftards that park where it says dont park, meanwhile everyone who picks up their kids and follows the rules get stuck in the shitpile that the same 5-6 assholes create every day after school. I talked with the principal yesterday and he said he is going to try to moderate the parking lot because there have been a few recent confrontations, these conflicts are pretty emotional just like any road rage type conflict and something could erupt anytime. (I need a crovel in my suv lol)

The fracking casinos that are government run have the BEST damned 24/7security money can buy isnt it freaking ironic.......

Protect the kids first sort it all out later.


It is my understanding that in Israel, the teachers are armed. And guess what, no school shootings, EVER!

- - - Updated - - -

You can't convince me that trained and armed adults in a school wouldn't be a deterrent to school shootings. And yes, obviously the teachers/staff would have to be trained. This doesn't mean it would have to be every teacher, or every class. But if a shooter knows where will be someone shooting back, that is a whole other ball game then just a class full of kindergarteners, and a teacher armed with, what, a dry erase marker? So the teachers who aren't comfortable with a gun could use a tazer. It's the same principle of peace through greater fire power. If we are the biggest dog on the block, the little ankle nippers leave us alone. If we are helpless and defenseless, we are targets to every sicko out there.

[mitunnelrat]

Been thinking. How would ya'll feel about drafting a form letter we could adapt to and disperse throughout our various regions to present a unified front? We could consolidate, clean up, and use the talking points we've already made here, like...


It's amazing to me that this has happened in a state with some fairly strict gun control laws already.....yet there will be clamoring for more gun control laws.

In talking with Izzy later today I suggested that this will not stop until they find a way to outlaw wackos.


You notice, these criminals, regardless of mental deficiency (or, what I consider sheer evil), never walk into a gun shop and start shooting people. They never go into a police station and start shooting people, or anywhere else that it's reasonable to assume that your target would SHOOT BACK. Of course there will be a rush to control guns, yet as a society have outlawed meth and heroine, and the criminals still get a hold of them, by golly. We could also completely outlaw guns someday, and yet criminals would still get a hold of them too. What we need is for our schools to STOP BEING WIDE OPEN TARGETS!


our real problem is with the society that we have created, or should I say have let be created by our elected officials. They have allowed our society to become so violent with what's on TV, the movie theaters, video games the internet. All in the name of freedom of speech.

But these kids haven't been taught the meaning of respect or the love of GOD. They have been shown nothing but violence and a country that doesn't give a shit about it's old people and it's military, yet it allows anyone to cross it's borders to come here and do what they want.

If you have children, raise them, raise them right. Teach them right from wrong, teach that violence doesn't solve anything, but teach them to defend themselves. Teach them that this country was founded on GOD fearing men and women and that they used the word GOD in their lives and they say prayers. Teach them the Pledge of Aliegence and what it means, teach them that men and women fought and died for the freedoms of this country. Hug your children love them and kneel down next to them when they say their prayer tonight and say one for the children of that classroom tonight for they were innocent.


Gun free zones..........they really have worked good haven't they?


I don't necessarily think that arming teachers is the answer.

Things like this won't stop until you can predict and control the actions of sociopaths.


Happy Land Social Club - 1990 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Land_fire)

22 years ago

87 people killed

Not a single gun was used.

Unbalanced people are the problem, not inanimate objects.


OK, so today it's schools.........how come we weren't discussing armed guards at movie theaters? This is only because there were a classroom full of children. This is all shooting from the hip, reaction from from an action. Murphy's law: Anything that can happen....will. It did and it will happen again.

Did any of you happen to hear about the teachers and their acts of heroism? There were some seriously brave people there at that school.

The thing that sickens me the most right now is the reporters. I would never let anyone near my child after an incident like this. There would be more news of "Parent beats down reporter news at 6" These leaches are sick and stupid! I'd like to beat the crap out of all of them that can't ask a real question and they don't know shit about weapons. All they do is .............ah fuck it man I can do this any more.They need to leave these people alone. I hated them during the war over in Iraq I still hate them now, fuckin pricks


And while I'd greatly prefer LiL Stigs teachers be able to fight back against an attacker, the reality is very few possess the mental wherewithal to "flip the switch" and go into fighting mode. Hell, we can barely get most gun owners to take a damn training class. You really think the majority of teachers are suddenly going to become undercover ninjas?

The reality is people are fucking nuts. They snap. They go high-order. The quicker we identify someone who is nutty and get them the treatment they need (instead of pretending they are normal) the less of these incidents you will have.

Doesn't stop the totally normal dude who just goes bananas of course.

[bacpacker]

I think it's a great idea. Start sticking them up on a wide range of areas and get lots of folks sending the same well researched points out. Much like the LYING talking points the .gov uses to great effects. Ecept these would be highly factual.

[Domeguy]

There CAN NOT be a pattern, because a pattern would be "profileing", and as we all know, this administration would 'never' use profileing.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

And yet you see all these "hopeless inner city poor black, hispanic gang banger kid's schools" IN THEIR MOVIES AND THEY GOT METAL DETECTORS AND GUARDS! Yet the're the one's with all the guns and here's this little peaceful community in Conn. with some stupid freak that comes in and blasts the place.

OK schools are schools, make them all the same (security) across the board and don't give me any shit about what's going on with demographics and I'll call it good. Level the playing field and your funding idiots it's called a "balanced budget" Hire a VET! What are ya stupid, the most highly trained kindest freedom fighting family guy/girl in the world wants to protect your kid, give him or her a damn job!

PROBLEM SOLVED!

[Gunfixr]

It's true, this isn't the first time. Mass shootings have been happening for decades, I saw a reference to 1929 not long ago. I just recently read and article that said stats show no rise in mass shootings. The only real difference is the total dedication the media gives these happenings now, practically masturbating them for all the drama they're worth.

Israel may arm their teachers, but their culture and ours doesn't have much in common. Everybody there gets training, most here do not. Their culture revolves around their security, after all, they are a small country surrounded by larger countries that want them wiped off the face of the Earth. We, on the other hand, mostly expect someone else to take care of our security. The kind of training and practice it takes to engage in a gun battle in a room full of innocents and not kill any of the innocents is way beyond what most teachers will be willing to undertake. Israel also profiles. Why? Because it works. We are too politically correct to accept this, so it won't happen here.
Someone mentioned that my earlier post wasn't the whole reason for what happened. True, but the reasons it does are varied and it is rather complicated, way too much for a forum post. That was only meant to be a simple example.
Also mentioned was a pattern. These things are generally done by people in their late teens to mid twenties. They generally are all recognized as "different" at the very least, if not downright disturbed, yet no one pays them any attention, or makes any effort to see if they need any help. Our politically correct method of raising them does not prepare them for the real world, and when it hits them, their reality check bounces, big time. Most of them don't have any real connection with reality, immersed in a fantasy world of video games. They follow the answer given by this fantasy world, which is to "kill them all". Of course, later it is noted that they lived in a fantasy world, but apparently that wasn't a big deal either.
When I was a kid, they had programs for kids that just wouldn't "get it", of which the various "scared straight" programs are an example. You didn't actually have to commit a crime to be put in one of these, you just had to show a clear path that was leading to self-destruction. You were put in one as an interdiction, to try to keep you from ruining your life, not after it was too late.
Now, however, there are no longer such programs. You cannot get help for your child until they do something that is dangerous or actually hurt someone. Often, they have to really go over the edge before something is done. This, of course, is too late.

Probably most of these young killers could have been redirected, had something been done before they went over the edge.
The ones who couldn't have been saved could have at least been prevented from doing what they did.

[White Tiger]

Leftists always want us to look elsewhere to see leftist policies employed...as if this somehow legitimizes stealing the rights of citizens.

...I have a different mental picture that illustrates how a foreign society protects it's most innocent - while they are out of the care of the parents - and while they are being educated.http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t238/TinMan61/image_zps6b7cfd06.jpg

This is an Isreali school teacher - on a field trip with her class.

[izzyscout21]

It is my understanding that in Israel, the teachers are armed. And guess what, no school shootings, EVER!

You can't convince me that trained and armed adults in a school wouldn't be a deterrent to school shootings. And yes, obviously the teachers/staff would have to be trained. This doesn't mean it would have to be every teacher, or every class. But if a shooter knows where will be someone shooting back, that is a whole other ball game then just a class full of kindergarteners, and a teacher armed with, what, a dry erase marker? So the teachers who aren't comfortable with a gun could use a tazer. It's the same principle of peace through greater fire power. If we are the biggest dog on the block, the little ankle nippers leave us alone. If we are helpless and defenseless, we are targets to every sicko out there.

Gunfixr beat me to it, so I'll highlight what I was going to say...........



It's true, this isn't the first time. Mass shootings have been happening for decades, I saw a reference to 1929 not long ago. I just recently read and article that said stats show no rise in mass shootings. The only real difference is the total dedication the media gives these happenings now, practically masturbating them for all the drama they're worth.

Israel may arm their teachers, but their culture and ours doesn't have much in common. Everybody there gets training, most here do not. Their culture revolves around their security, after all, they are a small country surrounded by larger countries that want them wiped off the face of the Earth. We, on the other hand, mostly expect someone else to take care of our security. The kind of training and practice it takes to engage in a gun battle in a room full of innocents and not kill any of the innocents is way beyond what most teachers will be willing to undertake. Israel also profiles. Why? Because it works. We are too politically correct to accept this, so it won't happen here.

I'm all for carrying a big stick and laying the proverbial ass whooping on those that need it, but arming Miss Suzie isn't going to help stop anything.

First, it will never happen here. 95% of "educators" aren't going to volunteer to take any sort of extra training, much less defensive firearms training. They don't want anywhere near them. Try and make it mandatory. See how far that gets you.

Secondly, if same people who wont step up to invest in their own training, I don't want them trying to protect MY kid. They probably know just enough to get themselves killed or worse, someone's kid(s) killed. These are probably the same people that if said requirement were, in some freak occurrence, made mandatory, would leave their piece at home.......on a regular basis.


Like Gunfixr said, the cultural differences between us and Israel are too wide to make what works for them work here.

If you want more guns in school, put an SRO in every classroom.

[mitunnelrat]

SRO = Sheriff Reserve Officer?

[izzyscout21]

School Resource Officer

[mitunnelrat]

Thanks, and I agree that makes more sense that trying to arm teachers and principals.

[Grumpy Old Man]

I left off commenting on this for a while so that I would not do so in the heat of the moment. The problem is NOT the mental state of thee shooter, but rather the moral state of our nation! We have video games that elevate our minds to a state of violence; we have entertainment (?) that celebrates death and destruction,and have a lack of moral direction when we celebrate promiscuity and decries abstinence.
When we promote derpavity and celebrate sexual pecadilloes, when we promote violence over peaceful negotiations, when we vote our time to promoting extreme monirity viewpoints to the exclusion of the majority of opinions then we we become a tyranny of the minority. Only <5% of the country is gay yet their agenda rules what happens in the USA. God help us!!

I won't put on my tinfoil hat but only ask this, look at the eyes of the Colorado shooter and look at the eyes of the Conneticutt shooter. See any similarities?

[Sniper-T]

A couple of local articles:

Rights and Freedoms Bulletin (ISSN 1923-998X) is a public service of provided by RightsAndFreedoms.org and KM Publishing Inc., P.O. Box 21004, Chilliwack, BC V2P 8A9

Gun-Free Zones Kill Kids When will we come to our senses and protect them? Christopher Before I go any further, I want to express my deepest condolences to the families of every child and adult who was so senselessly murdered yesterday. My thoughts and prayers go out to every one of those families. All day Friday the news poured out of Connecticut about the latest tragic and horrifying shooting, this time of kindergarten students and their teachers, by another deranged lunatic with a gun. Th e high death toll is horrifying, but it is far from unexpected. What no news station in North America was willing to tell us, naturally, is that this mass shooting had one thing in common with every other mass shooting: the lunatic with a gun went to a place where he KNEW he would face no resistance. Lawmakers saw to it that carrying a defensive fi rearm was illegal at this school, just like they’ve done to every other school in America. When you guarantee children are unprotected and their teachers are defenceless, of course the death toll is going to be high. Every mass shooting has the SAME common denominator: A GUN-FREE ZONE. Th ere isn’t anyone who can stop the madman with a gun on the scene... not until police can arrive. By then, as was proven again yesterday, the madman has already done his worst and then taken his own life so he cannot be held accountable for his heinous actions. Th e same tired people trot out the same tired rhetoric they do after every mass shooting... yet not a single one of these lame chuckleheads will face up to the truth. Th at truth is simple, really. So simple the Israelis have used it since the 1970s to eff ectively stop terrorist attacks on their schools. Th ey trained and armed their teachers. Would-be terrorists only attacked an Israeli school once after that program took eff ect. Th at’s all it took for the terrorists to realize their former easy targets were easy no more. Nobody “wants” to arm teachers. Nobody wants war either, but sometimes it cannot be prevented. Th ere is a war going on right now, and our children are paying for it with their lives because we are simply too afraid, too cowardly, or maybe just too caught up in “being right” to understand there is a solution to mass shootings. We’re just not willing to implement that solution. As long as we insist on burying our collective head in the sand there will be more mass shootings in schools, and more innocent children will die a horrible but totally preventable death. Gun-Free Zones only protect the killer. Why is that so hard to comprehend? Yours in Liberty,

- - - Updated - - -

ANother:





Dr. Ignatius Piazza
For Immediate Release: Friday, December 14, 2012
Dear jim,
Please Forward to Your Local Newspapers, Radio Stations, and Television News Stations
Subject: Gun School For Teachers
Las Vegas, Nevada: In the wake of the yet another senseless school massacre, I ask all our politicians, law enforcement officials, and school administrators one simply question:
WHEN ARE WE GOING TO WAKE UP AS A NATION AND PROTECT OUR CHILDREN?
How many more children have to die before we will find the testicular fortitude, as a nation, to put in place REAL policies that will stop a deranged gunman in his tracks, before he can commit mass murder on innocent and defenseless children?
How many times do I have to offer the nation THE solution?
What the hell is wrong with the leaders of our country? Find a pair, and make the RIGHT decision to protect our children, not more of the wrong decisions that create the opportunity for the next lunatic to murder at will with zero resistance!
Once again, Front Sight Firearms Training Institute, arguably the world leader in providing intensified courses in the defensive use of firearms for private citizens, has the answer to stopping further attacks on school children. Front Sight will once again offer free firearms training to any school administrator, teachers, or full time staff members designated as school Safety Monitors.
Front Sight will accept for training up to three staff members from each school, college or university.
Applicants must submit a letter requesting training on school letterhead signed by the top school district official and designating the applicant as the school's Safety Monitor.
Please forward this e-mail to your state and federal legislators, local law enforcement departments and your child's school administrator, as well as your friends and family, asking them to do the same.
Guns and Teachers
As Front Sight's Founder and Director, I understand my offer to train armed school teachers may offend some school administrators and parents who do not see arming and training selected school staff members as a positive solution to violent attacks. However, historically, my approach has worked while gun control has actually increased violent crime by shifting the balance of power to favor the criminals and lunatics.
My offer is not a new idea. In the early 70's, Israel was faced with much greater problems of armed terrorist attacks on schools. The cry for more gun control was heard then too, but Israel very carefully analyzed all possible options before adopting the proactive position of arming and training their teachers. School shootings stopped and terrorists looked for easier targets. Gun control never has and never will stop criminals and madmen from carrying out acts of gun violence.
In our country, every time a misguided individual on psychiatric drugs goes on a killing spree, anti self-defense legislators, watch the polls and exploit the dead victims in order to fool the public into accepting more gun control. It is time our country finds some resolve and the will to tackle the real problem, which is rooting out the actual influences in the lives people hat predispose them to commit atrocities. The problem is not guns. Guns don't cause these incidents to occur any more than cameras cause child pornography or automobiles cause traffic fatalities.
Israel had the right answer. Society is safer when we train and arm our law abiding citizens. As the defensive training leader in the USA, Front Sight is willing and able to set the example for the rest of the country to follow.
Armed Teachers
Dave Clark, who recently retired after teaching for the last 25 years at Junction Junior High School in Livermore, California agrees with Front Sight's philosophy. In fact, Mr. Clark has previously attended a Four Day Defensive Handgun course at Front Sight at his own expense and found the course to be exactly what is needed to train fellow teachers to stop an attack similar to Columbine school and Virginia Tech. "Front Sight provides safe and responsible training to a level that exceeds law enforcement standards." Says Mr. Clark. "Among the many lessons taught, I learned universally accepted rules in justifiable use of deadly force. More importantly, I learned when not to shoot and how to be more mentally prepared to see a lethal confrontation coming before it happens in order to avoid it. The firearms training is second to none and clearly gives the graduates the skill needed to save the lives of those in their charge if ever attacked. If my school district chose to adopt a policy of sending selected teachers to Front Sight for concealed handgun training, I would wholeheartedly support it and volunteer as a Safety Monitor. There is no reason for our children to continue to be victimized when free, professional training is available to stop school attacks."
Guns in Schools
There is evidence that a gun in the hand of a teacher will stop an armed attacker. The vice-principal of a school in Pearl, Mississippi used his handgun to stop and detain an armed killer until the police arrived. It seems obvious that armed and trained staff members inside the school are in a better position to identify the attackers and do something immediately to resolve the situation. It is much harder for police, who arrive on the scene too late to stop the killing.
Lawmakers With Blood on Their Hands
An obstacle to training and arming teachers is the current law in many states prohibiting the possession of firearms on school grounds even when the possessor is qualified and has a concealed weapons license.
Understand that those laws did not prevent or stop the gun violence at numerous schools over the last ten years. The brazen attacks in school after school during the last decade indicate criminals have concluded that 'Gun-Free-School-Zone' actually means 'Government Certified, Helpless and Unarmed Victim Zone.'
Schools Can't Afford to Pass on No Cost Security
Most school districts cannot afford to have even one full time police officer in every school, but they can easily afford to train three or more of their selected staff members to a higher level of firearms training than offered in police academies because Front Sight will provide the training at no cost.
Retired law enforcement firearms instructor, Mike Waidelich from Bakersfield, California strongly supports the Front Sight concept of arming and training teachers. "Nearly every tragedy on or off school grounds in the entire 30 years of my law enforcement career could have been prevented or the damage done considerably limited, by the presence of an armed and trained individual."
Concealed Guns
The training provided in Front Sight's basic training classes easily exceeds the training provided in most police basic training academies.
Front Sight proved it on their nationally televised reality series Front Sight Challenge. 80 Seasoned law enforcement officers from around the country went head-to-head in tests of marksmanship, speed and tactics against 80 private citizens-- including teachers-- who had not received any training other than Front Sight's firearms courses. Remarkably, the Front Sight trained, private citizens won over half of every contest.
Teachers will be trained to carry a concealed weapon, so potential attackers will not know which teachers are armed and which are not. In states that have adopted concealed weapon laws for private citizens, violent crime has dropped. School attacks will drop as well once it is known that any of the teachers and staff members on school grounds have the ability and training to stop a violent attack immediately.
There is also scientific research that supports Front Sight's stance on concealed weapon training from John Lott, Jr. at University of Chicago School of Law who published Crime, Deterrence and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns in July 1996. Mr. Lott's research of cross-sectional time-series data from all 3054 U.S. counties from 1977 to 1992 found that allowing citizens to carry concealed weapons deters violent crime and appears to produce no increase in accidental deaths. If those states which did not have right-to-carry concealed handgun provisions had adopted them in 1992, approximately 1,570 murders, 4,177 rapes, and over 60,000 aggravated assaults would have been avoided yearly.
Gun Control Increases Violent Crime
How many times must we experience another Littleton, Colorado or Virginia Tech or Newtown Connecticut massacre before we wake up, study the research and adopt policies which actually reduce crime and begin saving our children instead of leaving them helpless victims when the next psych drug user snaps?
Gun control increases violent crime yet some politicians continue to tout disarming law abiding citizens as a solution. Front Sight has a better solution.
Arm and train school teachers to carry a concealed weapon. And post a DIFFERENT sign outside of ever school!
Look for the RIGHT sign all over America. They are in front of the homes of armed and trained Front Sight students. If you were a deranged murderer, which house would you invade? One with an armed and trained occupant with a Front Sight sign or one who had a "Gun Free Zone" sign in his yard? The answer is simply to any rational person.
WHY ARE SCHOOLS ANY DIFFERENT?
Don't have a sign? Get one here: http://www.readytodefend.com/frontsight/
Front Sight Yard Signs


Front Sight Window Decals



It is time WE WAKE UP and start providing REAL protection for our children in schools. Front Sight stands ready, willing and able to train every teacher in America if that is what it takes! Help us protect your children by demanding YOUR school send their teachers to Front Sight!
Sincerely,
Dr. Ignatius Piazza
Founder and Director
Front Sight Firearms Training Institute
7975 Cameron Drive, #900
Windsor, CA 95492
http://www.frontsight.com
info@frontsight.com
1.800.987.7719

[Stg1swret]

I just finished reading this thread, and have a few points to make, and then I 'll move on.

1. Don't try to make sense out of the senseless.
The perp had mental issues his mother kept from everyone.
2. Gun free zones only apply to law abiding folks.
They are target rich environments for those wishing to do ill will.
The Aroura shooter had bigger and closer movie theaters showing the same movie the night he struck- the difference- guns were not banned.
3. More gun control laws on the books won't help.
The recent shooter was denied a gun purchase just days before the shooting
4. Armed guards won't fix the issue.
They then become the first target.

We have taken God, and personal responsibility out of peoples everyday lives, desensitized an entire generation with TV and video game violence. The TV and viideo games have become electronic baby sitters for our kids. A, "assault weapon" ban isn't the answer. If I assault you with a sick, it is an assault weapon. A determined perp out to do harm will find a way. It just matters if he/she wants their 15 minutes of fame, or wants to survive the attack. Of late , these cowards have taken out innocent folks and then killed themselves.

Thanks to the ACLU, there are thousands of people who should be in mental institutions out roaming our streets, They are ticking time bombs just waiting to go off.

Yes, an armed teacher, or school administrator with proper training could have most likely stopped the latest tragedy. As to the the best solution to the problem, I really cannot say.There is no one answer to the question. Will the present administration try to push new anti gun legislation- you can bet on it.

[4suchatimeasthis]

This was sent to me by a friend. I don't claim to have all the answers, but I can darn well see the problem!



Secret Service’s Safe School Initiatives. A study on School Shootings.

THE FINAL REPORT AND FINDINGS OF THE SAFE SCHOOL INITIATIVE: This document is starting to make the rounds through the internet, but do not expect to see it mentioned in the news anytime soon.

The Safe School Initiative was implemented through the Secret Service’s National Threat Assessment Center and the Department of Education’s Safe and Drug-Free Schools Program. The Initiative drew from the Secret Service’s experience in studying and preventing assassination and other types of targeted violence and the Department of Education’s expertise in helping schools facilitate learning through the creation of safe environments for students, faculty, and staff.

It makes for a very interesting reading, specially when you hit page 37:

Despite prompt law enforcement responses, most attacks were stopped by means other than law enforcement intervention…. The fact that it was not through law enforcement intervention that most of the targeted school violence incidents studied were stopped appears in large part to be a function of how brief most of these incidents were in duration.

And if we take a quick jump to the findings we get:

Key Finding 10
Despite prompt law enforcement responses, most attacks were stopped by means other than law enforcement inter vention and most were brief in duration.

Implications
The short duration of most incidents of targeted school violence argues for the importance of developing preventive measures in addition to any emergency planning for a school or school district. The preventive measures should include protocols and procedures for responding to and managing threats and other behaviors of concern.

One can see politics rearing its unsightly rear end here. Key Findings 1 through 9 deal with the importance of proper vigilance and prevention which are very good and must be used because anything that reduces the chances of something from ever happening has to be encouraged. But when Finding 1 through 9 fail and the shooter is on the school grounds, you don’t go back and recheck what cue you missed on the shooter’s profile but go to direct action to stop the attacker. After all, the Secret Service Presidential detail do not carry file folders under their jackets, they carry guns to stop any assassin from taking the President’s life.

As the Secret Service painfully knows, it is impossible to catch all the crazies out there before they act. Sometimes your only option is to react forcefully and with deadly force.

PS: I did forget to mention, the report is from May 2002. It is up to you to do the math.

[greg48]

biggest problem i see with arming teachers is there are some crazy teachers that shouldn't be teaching the unions are protecting...

[4suchatimeasthis]

^^^ agreed, maybe what is going on in Michigan will catch on in other states. Besides, truth be told, a lot of those students are suffering because of inadequate teachers as it is. Maybe those teachers need to be replaced with ones that have brains and backbones. Say hello to your newest "Right to Work" state, goodbye to the crappy teachers propped up and protected by their unions.

[Evolver]

School Resource Officer

"A School Resource Officer (SRO) is a law enforcement officer who is assigned to either an elementary, middle, or high school. The main goal of the SRO is to prevent juvenile delinquency by promoting positive relations between youth and law enforcement. The SRO position encompasses three major components which allow the SRO to achieve this goal: law enforcement, education, and counseling. These three components allow the SRO to take a proactive approach to law enforcement. SRO's are not just "cops" on campus. SRO's provide all law enforcement duties on their campus. They educate the students by teaching law related classes and other related subjects in the classrooms and counsel both students and parents on various topics. The SRO becomes involved in the students' lives as a positive role model. The intent is that the positive experiences students have with the SRO will bridge the gap between juveniles and law enforcement, and in doing so, help prevent juvenile crime."

These are already in place but only in "problem" area schools, they come with a hight cost to the tax payer so thats why they're not in place at every school. I don't see why each school district couldn't adopt mandatory screening and training of X amount staff per student for "certified" non-uniformed armed security personal delegated within the school system which could be duel positions inside the administration.

[ak474u]

One immediate improvement, would be to require each officer on-duty in a certain sector of his city, to visit, and walk the hallways of his local school during the shifts that cover school hours. This would take maybe 20 minutes, and if done at random intervals, may prevent a shooting. Funny thing is, if just one of the major welfare programs in the US were eliminated, we'd probably be able to afford a cop for every single school in the country. Instead, they blow our money on stupid programs that perpetuate poverty, violent neighborhoods, etc.

[The Stig]

Don't try to make sense out of the senseless. The perp had mental issues his mother kept from everyone.


I agreed with all your points but this is the central issue in all the posturing that is about to unfold.

While momma thought her son was a special snowflake it appears he had deep issues that she refused to deal with. You can count on that not being discussed.

[Sniper-T]

An excerpt of an article:

The following is a harrowing list of American tragedy. They’re listed here in as brief a manner as possible, not out of disrespect or lack of compassion, but out of a need to make them easily comparable for analysis.

December 11, 2012. On Tuesday, 22-year-old Jacob Tyler Roberts killed 2 people and himself with a stolen rifle in Clackamas Town Center, Oregon. His motive is unknown.
Weapons Used: AR-15 semi-automatic rifle
Method of Capture: Self-inflicted gunshot wound after confronted with an armed defender.
Guns Allowed: Not on mall property, but the actual town; Yes.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

August 5, 2012. Six Sikh temple members were killed when 40-year-old US Army veteran Wade Michael Page opened fire in a gurdwara in Oak Creek, Wisconsin. Four others were injured, and Page killed himself.

Weapon Used: Springfield XD 9mm Pistol
Method of Capture: Self-inflicted gunshot wound to evade police.
Guns Allowed: No

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

July 20, 2012. During the midnight premiere of The Dark Knight Rises in Aurora, CO, 24-year-old James Holmes killed 12 people and wounded 58. Holmes was arrested outside the theater.

Weapons Used: Pump action 12 gauge, .40 caliber pistol, Smith and Wesson M&P 15.
Method of Capture: Surrendered to police.
Guns Allowed: No (theatre’s charge admission to the public, so this means no carrying)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

April 2, 2012. A former student, 43-year-old One L. Goh killed 7 people at Oikos University, a Korean Christian college in Oakland, CA. The shooting was the sixth-deadliest school massacre in the US and the deadliest attack on a school since the 2007 Virginia Tech massacre.

Weapon Used: .45 caliber pistol
Method of Capture: Arrested by police.
Guns Allowed: No

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

October 14, 2011. Eight people died in a shooting at Salon Meritage hair salon in Seal Beach, CA. The gunman, 41-year-old Scott Evans Dekraai, killed six women and two men dead, while just one woman survived. It was Orange County’s deadliest mass killing.

Weapons Used: 9mm Springfield pistol, H&K .45 pistol, Smith and Wesson 44 magnum.
Method of Capture: Arrested by Police.
Guns Allowed: Varies. (Orange County is a “may issue” locale)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

September 6, 2011. Eduardo Sencion, 32, entered an IHOP restaurant in Carson City, NV and shot 12 people. Five died, including three National Guard members.

Weapon Used: AK-47 (this actually IS an assault-rifle)
Method of Capture: Self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head.
Guns Allowed: Yes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

January 8, 2011. Former Rep. Gabby Giffords (D-AZ) was shot in the head when 22-year-old Jared Loughner opened fire on an event she was holding at a Safeway market in Tucson, AZ. Six people died, including Arizona District Court Chief Judge John Roll, one of Giffords’ staffers, and a 9-year-old girl. 19 total were shot. Loughner has been sentenced to seven life terms plus 140 years, without parole.

Weapon Used: Glock 9mm pistol
Method of Capture: subdued by bystanders
Guns Allowed: In Tucson, Yes. In Safeway supermarkets: some yes and some no.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

November 5, 2009. Forty-three people were shot by Army psychiatrist Nidal Malik Hasan at the Fort Hood army base in Texas. Hasan reportedly yelled “Allahu Akbar!” before opening fire, killing 13 and wounding 29 others.

Weapon Used: FN Five-Seven pistol
Method of Capture: Arrested by police.
Guns Allowed: Not really applicable – it’s a military base.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

April 3, 2009. Jiverly Wong, 41, opened fire at an immigration center in Binghamton, New York before committing suicide. He killed 13 people and wounded 4.

Weapons Used: 9mm Beretta Vertec pistol, .45 Beretta Storm pistol
Method of Capture: Self-inflicted gunshot wound.
Guns Allowed: No

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

March 29, 2009. Eight people died in a shooting at the Pinelake Health and Rehab nursing home in Carthage, NC. The gunman, 45-year-old Robert Stewart, was targeting his estranged wife who worked at the home and survived. Stewart was sentenced to life in prison.

Weapons Used: Remington 597 .22 rifle, .357 revolver, .22 magnum pistol, 12 gauge Winchester 1300 shotgun.
Method of Capture: Arrested by police.
Guns Allowed: Not on the premises, prohibited by sign on the property.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

February 14, 2008. Steven Kazmierczak, 27, opened fire in a lecture hall at Northern Illinois University, killing 6 and wounding 21. The gunman shot and killed himself before police arrived. It was the fifth-deadliest university shooting in US history.

Weapons Used: 12 gauge Remington Sportsman shotgun, 9mm Glock 19 pistol, 9mm Sig Sauer P232 pistol, .380 pistol
Method of Capture: self-inflicted gunshot wound
Guns Allowed: No

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

February 7, 2008. Six people died and two were injured in a shooting spree at the City Hall in Kirkwood, Missouri. The gunman, Charles Lee Thornton, opened fire during a public meeting after being denied construction contracts he believed he deserved. Thornton was killed by police.

Weapons Used: Smith and Wesson model 29 44 Magnum revolver, Smith and Wesson .40 caliber pistol,
Method of Capture: Shot and killed by police.
Guns Allowed: Not in city hall.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

December 5, 2007. A 19-year-old boy, Robert Hawkins, shot up a department store in the Westroads Mall in Omaha, NE. Hawkins killed 9 people and wounded 4 before killing himself. The semi-automatic rifle he used was stolen from his stepfather’s house.

Weapons Used: Century WASR-10 semi-automatic rifle.
Method of Capture: Self-inflicted gunshot wound.
Guns Allowed: Not on mall property.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

April 16, 2007. Virginia Tech became the site of the deadliest school shooting in US history when a student, Seung-Hui Choi, gunned down 56 people. Thirty-two people died in the massacre.

Weapons Used: Glock 19 pistol, Walther P22 pistol.
Method of Capture: suicide
Guns Allowed: No

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

February 12, 2007. In Salt Lake City’s Trolley Square Mall, 5 people were shot to death and 4 others were wounded by 18-year-old gunman Sulejman Talović. One of the victims was a 16-year-old boy.

Weapons Used: Mossberg 12 gauge shotgun, 38 caliber pistol
Method of Capture: Shot by off-duty police office illegally carrying his weapon.
Guns Allowed: No, but you can NOW. They removed the on-premises signs.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

October 2, 2006. An Amish schoolhouse in Lancaster, PA was gunned down by 32-year-old Charles Carl Roberts, Roberts separated the boys from the girls, binding and shooting the girls. 5 young girls died, while 6 were injured. Roberts committed suicide afterward.

Weapons Used: Springfield XD 9mm pistol, Browning 12 gauge shotgun, Ruger .30-06 bolt-action rifle.
Method of Capture: Suicide
Guns Allowed: No

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

March 25, 2006. Seven died and 2 were injured by 28-year-old Kyle Aaron Huff in a shooting spree through Capitol Hill in Seattle, WA. The massacre was the worst killing in Seattle since 1983.

Weapons Used: Winchester 1300 12 gauge shotgun, Ruger P944 40 caliber pistol
Method of Capture: Self-inflicted gun shot wound.
Guns Allowed: No (It’s a private residence, but alcohol was on-site, so it would be unlawful to carry regardless of the local law.)

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March 21, 2005. Teenager Jeffrey Weise killed his grandfather and his grandfather’s girlfriend before opening fire on Red Lake Senior High School, killing 9 people on campus and injuring 5. Weise killed himself.
Weapons Used: .40 caliber Glock 23 pistol, .22 caliber Ruger pistol, Remington 870 12 gauge shotgun.
Method of Capture: Self-inflicted gunshot wound.
Guns Allowed: No

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March 12, 2005. A Living Church of God meeting was gunned down by 44-year-old church member Terry Michael Ratzmann at a Sheraton hotel in Brookfield, WI. Ratzmann was thought to have had religious motivations, and killed himself after executing the pastor, the pastor’s 16-year-old son, and 7 others. Four were wounded.

Weapon Used: 9mm pistol
Method of Capture: self-inflicted gunshot wound
Guns Allowed: Yes, (I think)

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July 8, 2003. Doug Williams, a Lockheed Martin employee, shot up his plant in Meridian, MI in a racially-motivated rampage. He shot 14 people, most of them African American, and killed 7.

Weapons Used: Winchester 12 gauge shotgun, Ruger Mini-14 .223 caliber rifle.
Method of Capture: Self-inflicted gunshot wound.
Guns Allowed: No

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September 15, 1999. Larry Gene Ashbrook opened fire on a Christian rock concert and teen prayer rally at Wedgewood Baptist Church in Fort Worth, TX. He killed 7 people and wounded 7 others, almost all teenagers. Ashbrook committed suicide.

Weapons Used: Ruger 9mm Pistol, .380 ACP pistol
Method of Capture: Suicide
Guns Allowed: No

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July 29, 1999. Mark Orrin Barton, 44, murdered his wife and two children with a hammer before shooting up two Atlanta day trading firms. Barton, a day trader, was believed to be motivated by huge monetary losses. He killed 12 including his family and injured 13 before killing himself.

Weapons Used: Colt .45 pistol, Glock 17 9mm pistol, .22 pistol revolver, .25 caliber pistol
Method of Capture: Self-inflicted gunshot wound
Guns Allowed: Too many various locations to determine all of them.

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April 20, 1999. In the deadliest high school shooting in US history, teenagers Eric Harris and Dylan Kiebold shot up Columbine High School in Littleton, CO. They killed 13 people and wounded 21 others. They killed themselves after the massacre.

Weapons Used: 12 gauge Savage shotgun, Hi-Point 9mm pistol, TEC-9 9mm pistol, 12 gauge Stevens shotgun, and 99 improvised explosives.
Method of Capture: Suicide
Guns Allowed: No

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Aggregated Statistics:

Let’s go through these numbers, because they are important. I hate the concept of reducing people’s lives to statistical figures for analysis, and that’s not what I’m doing. I’m looking at the truth of what happened to figure out what should be done, or at least to maybe help others decide what they think should be done.
•How many massacres are listed? 21
•Over how many years did they occur? 13
•How many people were killed in total? 183 people (including the killers)
•How many of them involved assault rifles? 1 (The AK-47)
•In how many of the 21 locations was a civilian allowed to carry a weapon to defend themselves or others? (Two, potentially three depending on the legality of one particular location in question.)


from here:

http://8minutesoffame.com/america-freedom-vs-freedom/

[greg48]

According to several research studies in the last decade, a total of 225,000 Americans per year have died as a result of their medical treatments:

• 12,000 deaths per year due to unnecessary surgery

• 7000 deaths per year due to medication errors in hospitals

• 20,000 deaths per year due to other errors in hospitals

• 80,000 deaths per year due to infections in hospitals

• 106,000 deaths per year due to negative effects of drugs

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

One immediate improvement, would be to require each officer on-duty in a certain sector of his city, to visit, and walk the hallways of his local school during the shifts that cover school hours. This would take maybe 20 minutes, and if done at random intervals, may prevent a shooting. Funny thing is, if just one of the major welfare programs in the US were eliminated, we'd probably be able to afford a cop for every single school in the country. Instead, they blow our money on stupid programs that perpetuate poverty, violent neighborhoods, etc.

Valid point....it's not that we don't have the money in our states. That's total BS and they know it. The welfare/Medicaid programs are so abused giving money to the fraudulent and illegals that they could fund plenty of security for our school systems as well as other "purposeful" things I might add. Like I said "They Know It" but they also don't want to lose that vote.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

According to several research studies in the last decade, a total of 225,000 Americans per year have died as a result of their medical treatments:

• 12,000 deaths per year due to unnecessary surgery

• 7000 deaths per year due to medication errors in hospitals

• 20,000 deaths per year due to other errors in hospitals

• 80,000 deaths per year due to infections in hospitals

• 106,000 deaths per year due to negative effects of drugs

Yes, but they weren't "violent" so they don't count, so there :rolleyes:
Politicians wouldn't give that a second glance.

[The Stig]

These sorts of events are not new.

That the media/powers that be are using them to drive a disarmament policy is.

However that swerves directly into politics which we don't deal with here.

[greg48]

the poor kids that were killed are pawns in a game played by the media and the liberal socialist that are fighting to remove the 2nd Amendment.

[Gunfixr]

the poor kids that were killed are pawns in a game played by the media and the liberal socialist that are fighting to remove the 2nd Amendment.

Just makes you wonder who the sick ones really are, doesn't it?

[ElevenBravo]

It seams lately, the shooter is committing suicide before he can be apprehended.... Weird pattern, makes me re-evaluate the false flag theory..... Seriously!!

EB

[DarkLight]

<tinfoil hat>I'm getting to be of the opinion that they are all supposed to commit suicide and any that DON'T are either not sticking with the program or they are somehow getting apprehended before they have the chance. </tinfoil hat>

[mitunnelrat]

I haven't forgotten about the letter folks, but I did just find something interesting when I went looking for a template to follow. This was from the administrator at TheHighRoad, copied shamelessly since he said to spread the word:

I stand corrected about my ideas concerning snail mail to Congresscritters, courtesy this link from Tamara's blog:

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.p...nal-delegation

Excerpts:

* The "boss" will almost never read your letter directly unless they know you personally. But he/she will likely ask their LC's if they've been getting any mail on certain issues. My boss used to ask if we did almost daily whenever there was a hot issue being discussed on the Hill, and would want to know what percentage of it was for or against the issue. Believe me, if a majority of the letters they are receiving are against gun control legislation, they will hear about it.

* Don't send form letters. Form letters are letters that special interest groups will send in on your behalf. You'll usually get them in an email and all you have to do is type in your name and hit 'send.' They all look identical, and the staff knows that you put absolutely zero thought into the issue, and therefore will assume that you probably don't give that big of a ****. When the boss asks if he's getting any mail on a certain issue, he often asks how much of it is form letters, and how much of it is real letters. Real letters (while rarely read by the member of Congress) are still a lot more powerful in the grand scheme of things.

* Don't use snail mail. Everything that gets sent into Capitol Hill has to go through the Capitol Police and is scanned for bombs and anthrax. It usually takes weeks for it to get to its destination, and more often than not, the issue is long over by the time it gets there.

* Be professional, but make your concerns heard.

* Keep it short and sweet. They don't need your life story. A few sentences will do just fine. Let him know you care enough to write your own letter, but keep it short enough to not bore him to death.

THR folks who go to other boards might do well to inform moderators about this method of contact; spread the word.