A question about PTSD to our Military members

[Echo2]

How many guys coming out of the service...are signing up for PTSD benefits? This being inclusive of the disability end of it.

I know some need it....and I have the greatest respect for those who have served and are have issues dealing with what they experienced and dealt with in combat situations.

However....this is a double edged sword....if you look at it from a "gun control" POV.

I've been watching the news and reading interviews....and a common theme coming up is "mental competency".

One of the things that can make owning a firearm illegal....is a prior record of "mental instability"...and the stricter enforcement of such regulations is being pushed.

The question:

Are many service members are going to loose their rights to keep and bear arms due to the allure of a small payment from the govt?

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

Well you hit the preverbial (if that's how it's spelled) nail on the head friend. No one is for sure the #'s of who has it or how many "claimed" they have it. Then there is the one's that actually do have it and don't want to claim it for normally a couple reasons. Pride, "I can handle it", repercussions, continued service, loss of family, rights, job opportunities. Does that clear the fog any?

PTSD has suddenly became really popular because of this particular war. Not so much the others. There are alot of false claimers out there right now. But yes, staying on topic. If you read the paperwork when buying guns you could be "I guess" DENIED your purchase couldn't you? But just wait till they pass a new bill, then what are they going to come knocking on every vets door with a PTSD claim and take their guns? Now you will have a civil war on your hands because they will fight back! So yes, I see a problem here. What happens to a PTSD sufferer who owns a weapon.......most of the time? They commit suicide, 99% they don't harm anyone else but themselves and that's it! The don't shoot up schools or malls or theaters..............because they have morals.

[eagle326]

I'll try to give you my view. I'm 100% because of P.T.S.D. I served with the 101st. Airborne in Nam from Aug.70 to Aug. 71 up in I-corps. now to give you a little background.
I was a Hvy. Equip. operator ; I operated a D-5 dozer but was cross trained on all equipment. We worked the lowlands of I-corps but mostly the high mountain areas. Double to triple canopy jungle was standard geography. Dozers were broken down between chassis and body. Then flown out seperately. Myself & Mark hicks the operators of said dozer would fly out on a slick with the Grunts to secure and prep area for re-assembly of dozer. More brothers would follow after A.O. was secured to help in assembly. And then we would begin mission while they flew in smaller dozers and other equipment.

When Hicks was operating I was his point man and immediate security as he was mine when I operated while the grunts took the outer regions.When the dozer wasn't working you reverted back to being a grunt. You would help them in guard duty ; listening post ; patrol or whatever came up.
Now in that 12 months we did as trained and lost some brothers thru it but never much gave it a long thought because we were mission oriented and grieved very little. We were living to keep on living. Now to some that may sound cold hearted but you were always working in some way and your 6 senses were on double overtime for the simple fact that charlie could be right next to you and never see him or her.

But it was a way of life you quickly came embrace because you needed to survive and it actually became an addictive way of life in the sense that living on the edge was intoxicating to an extent. You learned the true meaning of ( You could die any moment.) but didn't dwell on it. You actually in a sense became like the animals in the jungle keeping a weary eye out for any danger to present itself.

Then after 12 months you're flown home ; given 30 days leave before reporting back to base. You don't realize it at the time but your mind and body are still in Nam and your senses stay on high alert. To you you're normal but everyone around you tells you to relax and after telling them you are for the 100th. time you tend to drift away for solitude and you end up working all the hours you can get . I did this from 73 after I got out until 1996 when the V.A. and steel mill said I was unfit to work with people.
Younger people I worked with thought it was funny to throw strings of firecrackers ; m-80 and such near me to watch me react. But after I about killed a few due to what I now know to be flashbacks I was told I had P.T.S.D.
I was sent to Brecksville V.A. for 10 week in house group therapy with 14 other vets and weekly follow ups with my psychologist and many insuing battles with her. But she taught me ways to control my surroundings and people. I ended up seeing her 1 or 2 times a month from 1996 to 2010 when she retired. Now I see no one.

People with P.T.S.D. aren't mental ; As she said ; We are people who've seen the true nature of man and ourselves and know what both are capable of. As she said that's why many of us don't go out anymore amongst people than we have to. We'll always be on high alert and controlling our surroundings as best we can. It's not curable ; It's a way of life you live to maintain control of yourself and still be able to function. You learn to look at ease and even smile; laugh or joke after some practice. All the time meanwhile your senses are ever watchful for anything out of the ordinary.

Now that I've learned to control my surroundings and people in my life after many years of practice I lead a pretty quiet life even while on a lower alert at home because of a smaller area to watch. But as soon as I leave my property I feel the old ways take the lead until i reach home again. Plus I have 2 brothers from Nam who I talk with about things we did and it helps because they were there.
I've never had trouble buying a firearm because of P.T.S.D. Now if they were to change it and say I'm mental and want my weapons that'll be something I deal with when word comes down.

Bottom line ; No it's not a mental illness. Actually I believe we're more normal than the so called everyday normal people out there because in my way of thinking we know what the real world is like.

Sorry if I ramble too much. Hope this helps.

[rentprop1]

Well you hit the preverbial (if that's how it's spelled) nail on the head friend.

No one is for sure the #'s of who has it or how many "claimed" they have it.

PTSD has suddenly became really popular .

you could have stopped right there

[2die4]

Although I have seen more than anyone should see in their lifetime I know there are other brothers suffering much more than I am. The solution to PTSD from the VA is a crock of shit. Give us sleeping pills and Xanax and some egghead who has never been to war and expect to talk our issues out to them. For what? To gain a dependency on pills and possibly get my gun rights (I'm a CCW holder in my homestate) taken a away? No thanks. I find it more therapeutic to sit with other war vets drink a few beers, share our highs and lows to people that actually understand.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

I'll try to give you my view. I'm 100% because of P.T.S.D. I served with the 101st. Airborne in Nam from Aug.70 to Aug. 71 up in I-corps. now to give you a little background.
I was a Hvy. Equip. operator ; I operated a D-5 dozer but was cross trained on all equipment. We worked the lowlands of I-corps but mostly the high mountain areas. Double to triple canopy jungle was standard geography. Dozers were broken down between chassis and body. Then flown out seperately. Myself & Mark hicks the operators of said dozer would fly out on a slick with the Grunts to secure and prep area for re-assembly of dozer. More brothers would follow after A.O. was secured to help in assembly. And then we would begin mission while they flew in smaller dozers and other equipment.

When Hicks was operating I was his point man and immediate security as he was mine when I operated while the grunts took the outer regions.When the dozer wasn't working you reverted back to being a grunt. You would help them in guard duty ; litening post ; patrol or whatever came up.
Now in that 12 months we did as trained and lost some brothers thru it but never much gave it a long thought because we were mission oriented and grieved very little. We were living to keep on living. Now to some that may sound cold hearted but you were always working in some way and your 6 senses were on double overtime for the simple fact that charlie could be right next to you and never see him or her.

But it was a way of life you quickly came embrace because you needed to survive and it actually became an addictive way of life in the sense that living on the edge was intoxicating to an extent. You learned the true meaning of ( You could die any moment.) but didn't dwell on it. You actually in a sense became like the animals in the jungle keeping a weary eye out for any danger to present itself.

Then after 12 months you're flown home ; given 30 days leave before reporting back to base. You don't realize it at the time but your mind and body are still in Nam and your senses stay on high alert. To you you're normal but everyone around you tells you to relax and after telling them you are for the 100th. time you tend to drift away for solitude and you end up working all the hours you can get . I did this from 73 after I got out until 1996 when the V.A. and steel mill said I was unfit to work with people.
Younger people I worked with thought it was funny to throw strings of firecrackers ; m-80 and such near me to watch me react. But after I about killed a few due to what I now know to be flashbacks I was told I had P.T.S.D.
I was sent to Brecksville V.A. for 10 week in house group therapy with 14 other vets and weekly follow ups with my psychologist and many insuing battles with her. But she taught me ways to control my surroundings and people. I ended up seeing her 1 or 2 times a month from 1996 to 2010 when she retired. Now I see no one.

People with P.T.S.D. aren't mental ; As she said ; We are people who've seen the true nature of man and ourselves and know what both are capable of. As she said that's why many of us don't go out anymore amongst people than we have to. We'll always be on high alert and controlling our surroundings as best we can. It's not curable ; It's a way of life you live to maintain control of yourself and still be able to function. You learn to look at ease and even smile; laugh or joke after some practice. All the time meanwhile your senses are ever watchful for anything out of the ordinary.

Now that I've learned to control my surroundings and people in my life after many years of practice I lead a pretty quiet life even while on a lower alert at home because of a smaller area to watch. But as soon as I leave my property I feel the old ways take the lead until i reach home again. Plus I have 2 brothers from Nam who I talk with about things we did and it helps because they were there.
I've never had trouble buying a firearm because of P.T.S.D. Now if they were to change it and say I'm mental and want my weapons that'll be something I deal with when word comes down.

Bottom line ; No it's not a mental illness. Actually I believe we're more normal than the so called everyday normal people out there because in my way of thinking we know what the real world is like.

Sorry if I ramble too much. Hope this helps.

Bullseye...........thank you. I really didn't want to talk about anything personal but just all I can say is "Bulls eye" Brother.....

[realist]

There are some vets who are coming back have been told that since you spent x amount of time over there you qualify for x amount of disability benefits. So they sign up and get their benefits which I have no problem that they get them. The problem develops when they put in for something like a law enforcement job. There is the potential for being disqualified due to their disability. We have found that if they go back to the VA they can sometimes be cleared allowing them to pursue their new career. Some thing to think about, I just thought I would pass this on.

[Grumpy Old Man]

Eagle thank you for your service!! My cousins James O Blankenship (panel34E line 4) gave his life that we may be free! Many today look for a free ride. That is not to say that PTSD is not valid, but rather that some are looking for a cheap way out. Those who have this disability deserve to be treated with greatest respect; those who are scamming need their asses kicked!!There is no free lunch!!!

[eagle326]

Understood Grumpy. And no thanks is needed ; but truly appreciated from one such as yourself.

[bacpacker]

Eagle, BWRR, 2die4, and all you other VETS. Thanks to each of you for what you have sacrificed. It means a huge amount to me My prayer is that each of you can find the peace you deserve.

Grumpy, my thanks to you and your family as well. I know what that means, My dad Sgt jesse J Coffey is listed on Panel 6E, line 71. I agree that ALL who are afflicted by PTSD deserve the care and treatment they have available to them. I have no doubt it is something most difficult to deal with. And like Eagle said, everyday to some degree.

[greg48]

i know i've got a touch of the PTSD, my wife has agreed , i've been there seen the white elephant. i however have not claimed the PTSD for the said reason, i like to deal with it in my own way. there are alot of posers trying to work the system, myself i prefer to get up and go to work every day....

[rentprop1]

I know a guy who was at Ft Hood when the shooting took place, no where near the shooting and didn't know a single person effected by it, but is on disability or whatever claiming PTSD because of it ....# shakes head

[eagle326]

I know a guy who was at Ft Hood when the shooting took place, no where near the shooting and didn't know a single person effected by it, but is on disability or whatever claiming PTSD because of it ....# shakes head

Not to be funny because I'm not trying to be. Maybe you can get it from reading the newspaper or watching t.v. now.
Or just by being in the area somewhere even if you aren't close to it.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

Not to be funny because I'm not trying to be. Maybe you can get it from reading the newspaper or watching t.v. now.
Or just by being in the area somewhere even if you aren't close to it.

One thing's for sure we could give it to him:rolleyes: I heard it's An infectious disease, you could get it just by being around someone who has it............Hmmmmmmmmmmmm?

[Sniper-T]

So what happened before Viet Nam? Korea, WWII, WWI, 1812, Crusades... Men have seen and commited atrocities in battle for millenia, how come it is so prevalent now? what did ex-soldiers do before?

[eagle326]

So what happened before Viet Nam? Korea, WWII, WWI, 1812, Crusades... Men have seen and commited atrocities in battle for millenia, how come it is so prevalent now? what did ex-soldiers do before?

I'll try to give you what knowledge I was given by my psychologist and others at V.A. Brecksville. There are many many vets from WW- 2 ; Korea that I saw up at Brecksville and wondered who these older guys were. My psych told me and explained that they like myself came home and went to work and worked as much as we all could while raising families. Unbeknownst to us this was our way of trying to forget the past. As she said being consumed with the above mentioned usually works for most of us.

But when the times comes and we retire or for whatever reason can't stay occupied constantly the memories come flooding back from where we pushed them and they hit you like a bomb. Even the older guys you could tell by the distant look in their eyes at times when we would chat. Even working you don't completely push it to the back of your mind. Events bring it back every now and then but usually not enough to hinder you because you 're staying very busy.

Now the other side is when you're working and living and people try to get your goat to see your reaction and this is the bad side that comes back and sees everybody as the enemy in the area. The thing is you think your normal ; yet people around you find you strange but never say anything most of the time. I went 25 years before I exploded and everyday thought I was like everyone else.

But then many from all these wars won't get help because they figure they can do it on their own And many won't because if your not careful as was posted earlier they will drug you to death. This is just a short answer because there are many different circumstances for each person. Many ;many turn to the bottle and end up killing themselves by drinking.

If I can figure out a way to better explain it I'll post again anything that seems confusing.

Eagle

[eagle326]

Oh I forgot.
P.T.S.D. is the new name for combat fatigue and shell shocked.

[Echo2]

They called it "Shell Shock" when my Grandpa came home...and often they were looked at it as being a bit off their rocker.

It's a diagnosed condition now....but the down side is a lot of folks are trying to abuse the system by claiming it.

I fear this will come back to bite them in the arse if some of the purposed mental health firearm legislation goes through.

In some cases....the claiming of PTSDs for benefits is being pushed by case workers.....nothing like the lure of free money in a bad economy to get them to sign on the line.

It's a carrot on a stick.

[Stormfeather]

Having served 6 tours so far in OIF/OEF, and heading out to Afghanistan here in a few months, I know I have the ability to claim it. Ive seen my fair share, been shot at enough, shot back enough, been blown up more times than I care to remember, (and some I cant) and yet still keep doing it. The toll has been hard. Im rocking 65% hearing loss, messed up back from landing on a guardrail after getting thrown from a vehicle during a IED blast, bad knees, and my hands now shake imperceptibly most of the time. None of that compares to the sweats, the dreams, the thrashing in bed, the nightmares, the ability to not sleep, or irritability when I hear baby's or kids screaming. And ya know what, at the end of the day, I still got a fucking job to do, so it all gets pushed into the box in the darkest recess of your mind and there it will stay. When it gets bad, I call a few soldiers over, we have a few drinks, sit around the campfire, talk, de-stress and decompress. Do we have PTSd? yea, we do. Is it harsh? Fuck yea, When the itch and desire to go back to a combat zone just for the adrenalin high of getting shot at, dominates your every waking moment, yea. . .theres something wrong. Is there anything you can do about it? Not really. Everyone deals with it in their own way. Some drink, some cry, some suck start their gun, some get counseling, some engage in destructive behaviors, and some just say fuck it and go on about their day. Sure theres folks out there claiming it, and Im pretty sure at some point Im going to have to claim it as well someday. If it comes down to it where my claiming PTSD affects my firearms ownership, well. . .I guess we will just have to see what the PTSD side of my mentality thinks and let him deal with it. Im not making a veiled threat here or a prediction, im just saying, if the US of A has sunk that far down into the crapper to let something like that happen, well there has to be some unintended consequences somewhere happening.

[eagle326]

You stated far better than I could have brother.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

Bulls-eye brother.............