Can you live off your land?

[The Stig]

Let's say America slips into a hardcore depression 1930's style.

Not talking roving bands of zombie hordes all Mad-Max style, but rather a situation like:

* There is money available if you are willing to work hard long hours. Some of your family members might have to temporarily relocate to get to the jobs however

* Occasional unsavory characters and assorted flim-flam men might stop by looking to take advantage of you (or a handout).

* There is food at the grocery store but it's very very very hit and miss on selection and quality. Fresh produce is rare and meat is basically take what they put out...regardless of whether it's sirloin or hoof.

* Electricity and city water is no longer reliable. It runs, just not consistently or for long

* There is fuel at the gas station, but its expensive and not readily available


So the question becomes....can you live off the land where you live currently?

Can you grow a little garden to augment what you buy at the store?

Can you raise a couple small livestock animals for food/milk etc?

Can you generate your own electricity?

Can you collect and keep your own water?

Do you have good relationships with your neighbors so everybody can keep an eye out for each other?

Can you exist if some of your family has to relocate to another part of the country for a short while to make money?

Remember....all of this applies to your home right now. If you can't, what changes do you need to make to be able to eek by?

[ak474u]

Grow food: yes. There's a long tradition in my family of buying homes with large lots with the intent of tilling it up and growing food on the whole thing if times get tough. We have 1700 sq ft on .28 acres and already have a small garden thats getting larger every week. We've added peaches, plums, and figs in the last 7 days. Those don't produce yet, but we're heading that direction. We have assorted other vegetables and beans growing as well. The upper tier of our 3 tiered property is about 75x40, and besides the pathways it will be 100% garden next spring. We compost everything, and are working on learning to can to preserve what we grow once the garden is to the point of producing more at once than we can eat in a few meals, which it is not at this time.

Animals: Not really, but in a collapse situation where the HOA isn't really effective, yes. We would like to do Flemish giant rabbits, and can likely get away with it right now, can't do chickens. If I had to, I'd start trapping in the woods that are about 400 yards from my door, they're full of rabbits, and we could likely catch/shoot birds here at the house for a meal or 2. (Mmmm, mockingbird stew, yuck)

Maintain security in the absence of spouse: yes, wife is getting up to speed on being condition yellow. The mama bear instinct is there, and she's watching the world swirl around the drain, so its been easier to get her into the mindset of security.

Neighbors: sorta. I met lots of solid people at the neighborhood picnic, lots of hunters, lots of ex military with recent deployments, several LEOs whose houses I can hit with a rock from my back porch, a firefighter, good people. We're working on the relationships by introduce our son to their kids, and going from there.

[bacpacker]

1930 or Russia for years after WWII.

"So the question becomes....can you live off the land where you live currently? Yes, I think

Can you grow a little garden to augment what you buy at the store? We already grow a lot of our own produce production. This year was a very down year for us due to the wife being laid up, we still raised and put up probably 40% of what we'll eat for the year. Most years we are closer to 60-75%. This year our berry production ramped up considerably and should be good for years to come. Our grapes are coming in to good production as well. And our orchard has been in for 2 years now and shows signs of starting production in the next year or two.

Can you raise a couple small livestock animals for food/milk etc? We already have chickens and get regular eggs most of the time. It wouldn't be terribly hard to boost our flock and start getting regular meat after a few months. Also we already have one side of our property fenced and another side partially that wouldn't take much to finish. The rest of it would have to be done, but could be given the time to do the work. Cattle are raised on several farms around here and I think I could pick up a couple of heifers to start raising.

Can you generate your own electricity?At this point only on a very small scale to recharge smaller batteries. Power generation is deeper in our plans.

Can you collect and keep your own water? Yes! We can capture off our chicken coop enough to water our animals, and with a little work can do a lot more off the house and shop. Plus my two neighbors to the north both have large spring fed ponds. My property drains to theirs and I could also dig out decent size pond on mine to hold water for the animals and irrigation of the garden, orchard, & vineyard.

Do you have good relationships with your neighbors so everybody can keep an eye out for each other? For most of our neighbors yes. The others are somewhat further out from the house and don't really know well if at all. Those of us that are close communicate pretty regular and keep an eye out for each other when someone is away or in need.

Can you exist if some of your family has to relocate to another part of the country for a short while to make money? Here at our place it's just me and the wife, not sure how this would work.

Remember....all of this applies to your home right now. If you can't, what changes do you need to make to be able to eek by? " All in all, other than the zombie hoards over running us, this is more or less the scenario I think is most likely to happen and in general what my plans have been developed for. I guess from the lack of power production, my plans are more 1850-1890's more than 1930's. The thing I am lacking is the horses, tack, and equipment to work the land to stay in production.

Great questions Stig! I think there is a lot to ponder and consider in these questions. I hope to see a lot of discussion on this thread.

[helomech]

We grow must of our own food. We could live off our land if we needed to. We would not have all the things we want, but could survive.

[ElevenBravo]

No, but I wish I could.

EB

[Domeguy]

Not yet!

[Grumpy Old Man]

What Dome Guy said! But I'll be in better shape next year!

[Onestep]

Can you grow a little garden to augment what you buy at the store?
We already grow a good portion of our produce right now. Have enough property to increase garden sizes if need be


Can you raise a couple small livestock animals for food/milk etc?
Don't have animals at the moment but have considered rabbits and chickens. We would start with them and use wild game until they got established. Lots of deer and squirrels in our area

Can you generate your own electricity?
No we can't

Can you collect and keep your own water?
We have a 200 gallon rain barrel system in place and a spring fed lake about 200 yards away, plus another about a half mile.

Do you have good relationships with your neighbors so everybody can keep an eye out for each other?
Most stick to themselves so we don't have a relationship other than saying hi and waving.

Can you exist if some of your family has to relocate to another part of the country for a short while to make money?
Only the wife and I to worry about but if we had to, the back is still pretty strong for my age.

Remember....all of this applies to your home right now. If you can't, what changes do you need to make to be able to eek by?
Mainly the farm animals and the ability to house them. We'll never freeze down here and can get down to shorts and T shirts to combat the heat. Would like some solar power to help with electricity

[Katrina]

We're working on it, DH expanded the garden this year and it is looking good..Animals? No.unless I can hide them even in a 1920-30's situation ,township rules will prevent it. If they change the ordinances then we could do chickens. We are working on "recycling"the water coming from the sump.yes I have the means to purify for potable water plus we have at least 4 lakes and ponds along with a large creek/stream withing walking distance from my home. Electricity maybe harder but we've been looking into solar and wind generators.If the nat gas isn't running, the standby wouldn't run. We may not be able to run the entire house on the solar/wind but as we learn more that may change. Most of my family is already moving around the country because of work. DH is retired but would try to get work as would I. Thanks to the BSA and the Campfire girls both of us can start a fire and cook over an open fire(fireplace). we have a couple of neighbors we trust and would be able to work with but we don't know a lot of the people in the neighborhood. Not sure how some of them would react to that scenario. From what I see at some of their garage sales ,they are yuppies w/spoiled brat puppies with no clue how do anything . I am worried about what they may do if things got to a depression like the 20-30's or worse and they couldn't use their fancy gadgets or nuke a meal or run to a local restaurant or have pizza delivered. We're fairly versed in " roughing" it ,primitive camping. Haven't done it awhile but I'm sure we'd remember the old skills of sanitation , cooking ,etc.

[Stormfeather]

So the question becomes....can you live off the land where you live currently?

Yes, living off of the land isnt as hard as some think, but once we head into the winter months, its going to be a lot harder to live off of the land.

Can you grow a little garden to augment what you buy at the store?

Yes, and we currently have a small garden. Been putting up veggies all along now, every little bit counts!

Can you raise a couple small livestock animals for food/milk etc?

Yes we can, but our MAG's primary location is more applicable to it. We have the fencing and everything already in place there. The one I lack in is animal husbandry though, working on learning more as we go.

Can you generate your own electricity?

NO, we have solar panels in place, but only enough to handle the very basic of chores. We have generators, but they are dependent on gasoline. I want to work on a gasifier type production system, just havent had time to devote to it yet.

Can you collect and keep your own water?

Yes, we have a small pond, water catchment system, and a couple 5k water blisters.

Do you have good relationships with your neighbors so everybody can keep an eye out for each other?

With the ones that matter, yes.

Can you exist if some of your family has to relocate to another part of the country for a short while to make money?

Yes, i do this quite often already as it is.

[Alas Babylon]

Can you grow a little garden to augment what you buy at the store?
Yes, and have been. Still have 20 quarts of green beans, plus more of other veggies from last falls garden. For now the garden is small, but I rotate between plots for spring and fall gardens, so doubling size would be simple. Have been collecting tons of mason jars and lids, most for free from my elderly parents neighbors who quit canning due to age. Also have a few of each of apples, nectarines, peaches, plums, grapes, citrus, figs, wild blackberries, and sugar cane (thanks to Onestep) that currently produce.


Can you raise a couple small livestock animals for food/milk etc?
Dont have any yet, but have an area that can be converted to a large chicken coop with supplies on hand. Sister-in-law down the street already has chickens. Living in a rural area, getting chickens, goats, pigs, or cattle would be fairly simple.


Can you generate your own electricity?
800watts solar for now. Plans to expand to 8kw solar in the next year or so.


Can you collect and keep your own water?
One deep well on electric with generator backup, a newly installed shallow potable well in need of a pump. Have a top mount hand pitcher pump ready to go for it, but want to hook it to a windmill that I have. Windmill needs a tower and pump. Have 1000 gallons rain water, bottom of tanks is 8ft above ground level, currently used to water the garden. Used this rainwater system when our well went out to rpivode flush water for teh toilets. Also on a septic tank, so no power needed for that. Also have a pond out back.

Do you have good relationships with your neighbors so everybody can keep an eye out for each other?
Just one, but he knows everyone else in the area.

Can you exist if some of your family has to relocate to another part of the country for a short while to make money?
Just wife and young son, so I would say no.


Remember....all of this applies to your home right now. If you can't, what changes do you need to make to be able to eek by?
The biggest issue is the mortgage, and without a paying job, all this stuff would got to the bank.

[greg48]

yes to all but electricity, my plan is to get buy with little or none.

[Sniper-T]

I've purposely ignored this thread for a while to spend some time seriously thinking about it instead of the knee jerk reaction of "Hell-Yeah, Bring it on!"

"So the question becomes....can you live off the land where you live currently? Yes, this is exactly what I have been developing my land for. Whether it is a scenario like this or a peaceful resolution where I can retire and 'putter' around. Self sufficiency has been, and will continue to be, my main goal for my life and my land.

Can you grow a little garden to augment what you buy at the store? Already do, getting bigger every year. My biggest obstacle isn't the short growing season I have to contend with, it is the lack of time I currently have to maintain and nurture a garden. I averaged 6 days a week away from home working 12-16 hours per day. Once allowed to stay home and tend more dilegently, my garden(s) will definately support us through.

Can you raise a couple small livestock animals for food/milk etc? I have neighbours down the road that raise layer and meat chickens that I have a good rapport with and could get a few of each whenever I wanted. I also have a nearby neighbour that would give me some piglets whenever I wanted. I have the means to 'keep' both of these with a day or two's notice. (string some wire, build a coop.) Again, the only reason I do not have already is time, and the fact that my wife currently is not on board enough to have animals. In a scenario, she would do what it took. The benefit I have here, is that I live in an area with an abundance of game. I could easily keep us in meat without much difficulty.

Can you generate your own electricity?I would like to add a 12v aeration pump to my arsenal, I already have the batteries and several banks of solar panels. With this, I could keep the water in my pond fresh and aerated, which of course would keep my fish alive. Beyond that, I am confident to say that we could live comfortably without electricity, as we often do in hunt or fish camps, or just camping, or hanging at the cabin..

Can you collect and keep your own water? Already do... aside from the pond, I also have 4 45 gallon barrels collecting rain water, which also spill over into the pond when they are full. In each of my garden areas, I have facilities to store up to a hundred gallons, depending on how big the gardens are. I also have several hundred gallons worth of barrels sitting idle, waiting for additional garden areas to be opened/expanded.

Do you have good relationships with your neighbors so everybody can keep an eye out for each other? I've done well with this, this year, trading surplus garden items, for others, and yet others for skills, work, possessions, future considerations. I've helped arm and train a key neighbour, and got in tight with another, who has a green thumb so amazing it goes all the way to his shoulder.

Can you exist if some of your family has to relocate to another part of the country for a short while to make money? Not feasible, nor necessary, I believe that with both of us home and working our property we can produce everything we would need while also providing a surplus that we could trade for anything additional that we might want...

Remember....all of this applies to your home right now. If you can't, what changes do you need to make to be able to eek by? "

The main deficiency in my envelope right now is with grains. while I always have several hundred pounds of 'fresh' oats/wheat kicking around that I feed my critters with, and could turn into seed for myself if necessary, I don't have enough space on my own land to grow a crop yet. I am surrounded by farmlan though, and could appropriate an area in one near a neighbours place to grow, that he could guard, but in time, I wish to open up my own area that I could dedicate to grains. Conversely, I do have a second, unmaintained pond on my property, an enough wildrice seed to plant it many times over. with time, that pond could be expanded as a rice paddy, and I could easily grow enough to serve myself and have surplus to sell/trade.

So, in a nutshell, I would answer yes, although it would be a rough(ish) beginning, but I have the background, and the essentials set up to do exactly this.
...
Great scenario Stig!