Obamacare delay would send rates soaring

[The Stig]

Original story HERE (http://money.cnn.com/2013/11/01/news/economy/obamacare-delay/index.html?hpt=hp_t2) at CNN


Obamacare delay would send rates soaring
By Tami Luhby @Luhby November 1, 2013: 7:02 AM ET

Insurers need young, healthy enrollees to keep Obamacare premiums low.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney)

Delaying Obamacare by just a few months could send insurance premiums through the roof.

Congressional Republicans and some Democrats are pushing to give individuals more time to sign up for Obamacare after major technical problems have stymied enrollment. But insurers say the consequences of such a move would be heavy.

That's because insurers set their rates for 2014 assuming that all Americans would be subject to the individual mandate, which requires them to get health insurance or face penalties.

Under the Affordable Care Act, insurers must provide coverage to everyone -- even the sickest people -- which would greatly increase insurers' risk and cost. To offset this, lawmakers included the mandate to prompt younger, healthier people who don't use a lot of medical care to sign up.

But if the mandate were delayed by a year, many of those lower-cost folks may not sign up. About 2 million fewer people would would obtain coverage in the individual market, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

"All rates filed and approved with regulators are based on the mandate being in effect and the enrollment period ending March 31," said Robert Zirkelbach, spokesman for America's Health Insurance Plans, an industry trade group. "If that were to change, the rates would have to change."

If the individual mandate didn't exist, premiums would be about 15% to 20% higher, according to the CBO.

Adjusting the 2014 rates, however, could be pretty tough to do. How that would work remains an open question, Zirkelbach said.

It's possible some insurers could appeal to state and federal regulators to increase the premiums mid-year, but there's not a lot of precedent for that, said Yevgeniy Feyman, fellow at the Manhattan Institute, a free-market think tank.

It's not only next year's rates that could be affected. If the mandate is delayed, 2015 premiums will likely skyrocket. That's because insurers start setting their premiums for the next year in April.

Under the current plan, open enrollment will end March 31, allowing insurers to base their 2015 rates on the risk pool of their 2014 enrollees. If the mandate is delayed and that risk pool is made up of mostly older, unhealthy people, insurers will jack up their premiums.

Also, some smaller insurers may opt to leave the market, which would also cause rates to rise, Feyman said.

"Insurers will be on the hook without the premiums from young people who aren't making use of the plan," he said. To top of page

Ok...forgetting the political aspects of the changes to our medical system (political discussions are not allowed at shtfready.com)

Are you prepping financially for much higher insurance costs in the future?

What changes, if any, are you making to prepare for more expensive medical care?

What changes, if any, are you making to prepare for lower quality, harder to get care?

[izzyscout21]

Luckily, Tricare isnt drastically changing..... Yet.

that said, i know a lot of people who just watched their premiums and deductibles skyrocket.
This is really going to slam a lot of folks.

[MegaCPC]

About half of the people I've talked to about it have already seen increased rates. Of the other half, most expect to get hit hard pretty soon. Some of the nation's best hospitals are considering the idea of not accepting O-care at all.

It's a giant shitstorm, but never let a crisis go to waste. Just another step in the overall plan. With all the bullshit going on, it will be easier to ram a single payer system down our throats.

I'm prepping for this by being the healthiest person I can be, and cutting non essential spending.

But the fact that I'm doing it because some 300 pound, Escalade driving, iPhone texting, 7 kid having, EBT swiping, 911 calling, ambulance riding, lazy, entitled fat sack of shit waste of a human being can't be bothered to not have that 5th Big Mac, pisses me off.

Sorry, rant over.

[ElevenBravo]

Obamacare sends rates soaring

Please allow me to correct your post title...

Obomacare is not socialized medicine as we see it in Canada... it is.. legalized extortion of US citizens.

EB

[bacpacker]

Luckily my company is keeping our insurance in place as is. We got hammered pretty good last year, but not much change this time.
I am working trying to improve my condition both to improve my health and as a mainline prep.

[2die4]

Hmm another government program that doesn't do what its supposed to do. Shocker.

[FL-Jeeper]

Hmm another government program that doesn't do what its supposed to do. Shocker.

Oh I'm beginning to wonder if it isn't doing exactly what it was designed to do. Drown the insurance industry so we're all forced into 'single payer', truely socialized healthcare.

From 'We must pass it so you can see what's in it!.' to 'Never let a crisis go to waste'.

Perfection.

[izzyscout21]

My inlaws just went from a $225/month premium with a $3500 deductible to $765/month with a $9000 deductible.

[bacpacker]

Jeeper you are exactly rigt IMO. This was never supposed to work and now that they've got the insurance and med industries screwed up it'll never go back to where it was.
How the hell are folks suppose to pay premiums like that and deductibles that high on top. Why bother with insurance?

[msomnipotent]

I was bracing myself for sticker shock because our enrollment period for my husband's insurance will start next week. Instead, I was shocked to find a letter today stating that everything is basically the same and no premium increase. I was wondering why until I read Stig's post. I guess I will have to wait until next year for sticker shock.

I am expecting it to be almost the same as when we suddenly lost our group health through an employer and had to join my state's high risk pool. We were paying $1,100 per month in premiums for what amounts to a catastrophic policy. They only paid 80% of the bill after we paid $5,500 PER PERSON, not family deductible, and then paid 100% after we paid (I think) $15,500 out of pocket. From everything I heard, that is the type of policy I was expecting to get with Obamacare.

Prep-wise, I am trying to get everything done that I need, but as life goes, needs keep popping up. I am putting more money aside, little by little. At least now I know we have until next year to worry about it, but I know we are going to pay through the nose for it. I'm not worried about getting quality care. I can throw a stone and hit 3 doctors and a dentist out here, and I haven't had any problems with the multitude of professionals I have seen so far. I am a bit worried about paying for it. We thought we would just tough it out and try our best not to see doctors, but when our daughter got sick you bet we didn't hesitate to take her to the doctor and get the needed prescriptions. We worried about paying later. And I thought my plan for treating my RA was a good one. I would take Prednisone, which is dirt cheap, and my leftover pain pills and muscle relaxers. When that didn't work, we had to pay $1,800 per month for Humira, which was actually a discounted price. It is normally about $2,200. We wound up using almost all of our preps until he got another job with benefits. Extra deductible money is just another allocation in my prep spending now.

[ladyhk13]

I'm confused...so delaying Ocare would make rates skyrocket right? From almost everything I have heard most peoples rates have already skyrocketed. So what am I missing? My sister works for the county school system and as soon as the law was passed they all got called in and were told that their rates were tripling due to it. The rates have actually been increasing for the past three years in preparation for the law but the major hit is coming now with huge deductibles which I think may be very hard on families to budget for.

[cwconnertx]

I'm confused...so delaying Ocare would make rates skyrocket right? From almost everything I have heard most peoples rates have already skyrocketed. So what am I missing? My sister works for the county school system and as soon as the law was passed they all got called in and were told that their rates were tripling due to it. The rates have actually been increasing for the past three years in preparation for the law but the major hit is coming now with huge deductibles which I think may be very hard on families to budget for.

You have not seen anything yet. The people who designed this either designed it to fail or know nothing about economics, I tend towards the latter because everything I see passed through congress appears to ignore the reality of economics (economics in my mind being the study of human economic behavior)

1. I think some rather naive people believed that when young people might pay 100/mo for healthcare and old people were paying 800/mo enacting a law that limited old people premiums to no more than three time young people premiums would decrease old people premiums to 300/mo, while people with a clue realized this would result in young people premiums going up to 266/mo (800/3).

2. Insurance companies have lost their incentive to be efficient, since no more than 15% of premiums can cover administrative expenses and profits. If I can only keep 15% of what I charge, my incentive is to charge more and increase the amount spent on healthcare, not to be innovative and rein in healthcare costs. I need healthcare costs to increase so that my 15% increases, I cannot reduce healthcare costs and make more money, because if I reduce the 85%, I reduce the total and my 15% as well.

The whole thing is a clust3rfu*k of horrible economic policy. However... we now know that young people are not enrolling at the predicted rate... so the risk pool is skewed even more to old sick people... and since old sick people can pay no more than 3x young healthy people, next year the rates will have to escalate, followed by more young healthy people dropping out, and rates escalating again.. this is what the delay people worry about, if we let young healthy peopl voluntarily sit out without penalty the rates will escalate and quickly. I don't think that is going to be a problem, the penalty is already vastly cheaper than the insurance, so the people will sit out anyway, the concern is unfounded. The rates are already too high and the damage is done.

You are right, the skyrocketing has begun.. but just wait, the real fun is yet to come.

[ElevenBravo]

I would have thought that AFFORDABLE health care, would be affordable.

I pay $870 a month for a family plan, which is *1/3* of my gross. That, is NOT affordable, thats highway robbery IMHO.

EB

[helomech]

I would have thought that AFFORDABLE health care, would be affordable.

I pay $870 a month for a family plan, which is *1/3* of my gross. That, is NOT affordable, thats highway robbery IMHO.

EB

Wow, that is nuts. I think I pay 20 bucks a month for the plan (high deductible) then my company gives me 1000 in earnest money for being in that plan instead of the 750 plan. Then I put 400 a month into my health savings account, that money pays for the cost of my health care till I hit my deductible of 5000. After that the company pays 100%. My company is self insured, so outside influences don't really effect us too much, except when the government mandates stuff.

[ladyhk13]

I would have thought that AFFORDABLE health care, would be affordable.

I pay $870 a month for a family plan, which is *1/3* of my gross. That, is NOT affordable, thats highway robbery IMHO.

EB

That is pretty much the situation my sister is in. She works just to have insurance, most all of her pay goes to the premium and she doesn't even have kids. The county told them up front that their premiums were going up because of o'care as soon as it was passed, they didn't even wait for its implementation.

[greg48]

Izzy, I'm not using tri-care, got a few buddies that are, what I hear is the tri-care rates are gonna triple when OBcare is fully implemented?

[Gunfixr]

Our insurance is through my wife's job, and it only went up a small fraction, which happens every year anyway. It met mandates, so no changes were required.
I know, we got lucky.
You guys don't know who wrote the obamacare? The vast majority was written by the insurance companies, and they wrote it to guarantee good profits. They handed it back to the White House, who added the mandates and other crap, and now we have it.
I thought folks knew that.
Because of the mandate, and requirements to take everybody, no matter how sick, with limits on charging certain groups, all are charged high enough to guarantee profits even with a good percentage of sick.
Essentially, the young and healthy would carry the money output for the older and sicker.
Without the young and healthy's input, the "money pool" is smaller, as is the profit margin. Thus, rates will be hiked even more.

The insurance companies are only concerned for their bottom line.
FedGov wants everybody more dependent, aids in their control, plus the "fine" gives them more money.

Another straw (perhaps the final one) in the fleecing of America.

[ElevenBravo]

1) Allow me to clarify, when I said 1/3 of my gross, that is including about 10 hours OT a week, so as you see I dont make much money. Its even MORE of a pisser to take home a small check even AFTER working so long and hard.

2) Last year, BCBS went up about $90 a month

3) Already had the BCBS open enrolment meeting and they stated NO INCREASE this year. I figure, there going to double it NEXT year as a joyous surprise.

EB

[Sniper-T]

Wow. financially, I feel sorry for you guys. I certainly wouldn't want to pay that kind of coin! But allow me to put US vs. Canada health care into perspective on a non-financial point.

My brother's son (living in the US as dual citizens, and with healthcare) buggered his knee skiing. Ambulance to hospital, xrays, ultrasound, MRI, casted, spent the night, and released.
all costs picked up by insurance, premium paid.


Me, in Canada, buggered my shoulder at work. drove to hospital, waited for 7 hours, saw doctor, waited for 4 hours, got x ray, waited for 4 hours saw doctor. sent home. (Ultra sound ordered)
5 weeks later (while I've been off work on 55% compensation, I go in for an ultrasound, go home.

3 weeks later, go see the doctor. ultrasound was inconclusive, MRI ordered, sent home.

4-1/2 Months later, MRI. .. go home

2 weeks later, see doctor. torn this, torn that, referal to surgeon, go home

6-1/2 months later see surgeon. Yep need surgery, go home
3-1/2 months later, go in for surgery, go home
2 weeks later see surgeon, start physio.
...


In total I was off work collecting 55% for 19 months before I was cleared to go back to work on light duties.

Your care may be expensive, but I woul gladly have paid it to be fixed in a reasonable time.
perspective, not counting the overtime that I regularly worked, I was out of pocket over 40K. You seriously don't want to know how much it would have been including OT

So no, our health care may be free (it's part of the taxes that we pay), but the standard of care certainly isn't the same. If I could have gotten my doctor to refer me, I would have happily drove down to the Mayo clinic and paid to get it fixed.

[ElevenBravo]

Your care may be expensive, but I woul gladly have paid it to be fixed in a reasonable time.

Thanks Tee, that really does put things into perspective.

EB

[bacpacker]

T, I hate to hear your story. It sounds all to familiar. A friend of mine who lives near Vienna Austria had a motorcycle wreck and messed his knee up badly and required 3-4 seperate operations. This drug out over 4 years and a lot of his story was almost identical to yours.

The thing with this health care crap in the states and the cost issues is only the first step to Obamacare. It is certainly changing the cost structure to our health care. Next comes folks losing their Dr's. On top of that, many Dr's are retiring instead of sticking around and dealing with this as it drives it into the shitter. Next to come will be a severe degradation of our care (which in my opinion has been second to none). And seeing as how our congress passed the bill so that as Nancy Piglosi so proudly stated "We have to pass this bill so we can see whats in it", who knows what else is going to take place.

IMO, it won't be but just a few years if that and our health care system from top to bottom will end up being the same solcialized medicine that lots of the rest of the world has. Just one more way the US is being torn apart.

[helomech]

Wow. financially, I feel sorry for you guys. I certainly wouldn't want to pay that kind of coin! But allow me to put US vs. Canada health care into perspective on a non-financial point.

My brother's son (living in the US as dual citizens, and with healthcare) buggered his knee skiing. Ambulance to hospital, xrays, ultrasound, MRI, casted, spent the night, and released.
all costs picked up by insurance, premium paid.


Me, in Canada, buggered my shoulder at work. drove to hospital, waited for 7 hours, saw doctor, waited for 4 hours, got x ray, waited for 4 hours saw doctor. sent home. (Ultra sound ordered)
5 weeks later (while I've been off work on 55% compensation, I go in for an ultrasound, go home.

3 weeks later, go see the doctor. ultrasound was inconclusive, MRI ordered, sent home.

4-1/2 Months later, MRI. .. go home

2 weeks later, see doctor. torn this, torn that, referal to surgeon, go home

6-1/2 months later see surgeon. Yep need surgery, go home
3-1/2 months later, go in for surgery, go home
2 weeks later see surgeon, start physio.
...


In total I was off work collecting 55% for 19 months before I was cleared to go back to work on light duties.

Your care may be expensive, but I woul gladly have paid it to be fixed in a reasonable time.
perspective, not counting the overtime that I regularly worked, I was out of pocket over 40K. You seriously don't want to know how much it would have been including OT

So no, our health care may be free (it's part of the taxes that we pay), but the standard of care certainly isn't the same. If I could have gotten my doctor to refer me, I would have happily drove down to the Mayo clinic and paid to get it fixed.

Wow, we have a great hospital near us. My son wrecked his 4 wheeler and was acting weird. I put him in my truck and drove him to the hospital that we had never been too. I was greeted by the nurse who took him straight to triage. My wife started paperwork. Went straight from triage to ER bed. Doc came in and looked him over and ordered MRI. Wife got done with paper work just in time to go with him to the MRI. Got results and where released in 1 hour and 20 minutes.

We have a doctor near us that does not take insurance at all. Refuses to process it, but his rates are cheap, and he is a good old fashion doctor.

[bacpacker]

Helo your Doc is exactly what we need more of. Damn insurance companies are the biggest part of the health care problem in the first place.

[Gunfixr]

Wow. financially, I feel sorry for you guys. I certainly wouldn't want to pay that kind of coin! But allow me to put US vs. Canada health care into perspective on a non-financial point.

My brother's son (living in the US as dual citizens, and with healthcare) buggered his knee skiing. Ambulance to hospital, xrays, ultrasound, MRI, casted, spent the night, and released.
all costs picked up by insurance, premium paid.


Me, in Canada, buggered my shoulder at work. drove to hospital, waited for 7 hours, saw doctor, waited for 4 hours, got x ray, waited for 4 hours saw doctor. sent home. (Ultra sound ordered)
5 weeks later (while I've been off work on 55% compensation, I go in for an ultrasound, go home.

3 weeks later, go see the doctor. ultrasound was inconclusive, MRI ordered, sent home.

4-1/2 Months later, MRI. .. go home

2 weeks later, see doctor. torn this, torn that, referal to surgeon, go home

6-1/2 months later see surgeon. Yep need surgery, go home
3-1/2 months later, go in for surgery, go home
2 weeks later see surgeon, start physio.
...


In total I was off work collecting 55% for 19 months before I was cleared to go back to work on light duties.

Your care may be expensive, but I woul gladly have paid it to be fixed in a reasonable time.
perspective, not counting the overtime that I regularly worked, I was out of pocket over 40K. You seriously don't want to know how much it would have been including OT

So no, our health care may be free (it's part of the taxes that we pay), but the standard of care certainly isn't the same. If I could have gotten my doctor to refer me, I would have happily drove down to the Mayo clinic and paid to get it fixed.

I got some good friends who have lived in various places around Europe, dealing with socialized health care, and this post pretty much sums it up. There were more details given to me that were even worse than this. Like stitches given without any pain meds, to save the extra costs, crap like that. Major surgeries that weren't considered really necessary put off for long periods, leaving people suffering from whatever conditions.

You know, originally, health insurance wasn't designed to be the way it is. You were supposed to just pay your doctor for more standard visits, like you did before there was insurance. Health insurance was only to be used for big things, like hospital visits, surgeries, stuff like that. People were just supposed to pay outright for regular visits and regular prescriptions. Somewhere along the line, someone figured out how to get the insurance to pay for the smaller stuff, and it just spiraled downward from there.