DIESEL 'EXPERT': Need advise ASAP

[ElevenBravo]

So... It was f'in cold last night, ambiant temp 6.f and wind chill of zero.f or less.

I was driving to work and the truck started to wind down... then surged, and cycled for a while... I feared it was about to cut off, so I pulled over and sure'nuff, it shut down.

Last week, I ran out of fuel on the way to work (Yeah, it was a *LOT* of fun getting it started when I brought the 5gal can back to it, had to f'in walk home in 26.f temp!), and it was "acting like it did last week when I ran out".

I sat, pissed, worried and stressed. I now have to walk home about 2 miles, in gat dum 6.f temp, with the wind howling...

After about 2 minutes, I cranked and it started, but didnt want to stay running... I turned it around and by the time I got the the house It was lulling like it had no power and I more or less drifted to my parking spot.


The fuel gauge is reading just below 1/4 tank, I *should* have had enough to get to the pumps this morning, I was about 1/2 way there...


In SWVA, we NEVER HAVE THESE TEMPS, so I have NO IDEA how diesel fuel acts... I am wondering if it was cold enough for some gelling, or not?? Ill be going to get a few gals to drop in the tank and give her another run, but I still am concerned maybe it got too cold for her?

She was plugged in, so the batt charger (10A set on auto mode) and block heater ran for 5 hours prior to crank, but the fuel line and tank were.... naked.


Any feedback is appreciated...

('82 K5 Blazer with 6.2L Detroit Diesel NA)

EB

- - - Updated - - -

BTW, I was thinking of going to the truck stop to get some "diesel antifreeze additive" if I need to, but Im too broke to spend the money if it's a waste...

EB

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

UH, I wish I could I help you brother. I know just answering the thread probably just got your hopes up. But it does sound like it gelled up to me. I'll pass your problem on to my two "trucker" Brother-in-laws and see if they'll respond. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Hopefully I can get something to you in short order.

[ElevenBravo]

I'll pass your problem on to my two "trucker" Brother-in-laws

BWRR, I thank you VERY MUCH for doing that for me, I dont have any local contacts with experience & knowledge in this field, so I truly appreciate your effort!!

EB

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

LadyHK just informed me that one of the brothers said you need to run the additive. All the truckers run the additive......except one. That would be the one brother-in-law that was broke down up in Det-riot just recently for almost a week. He's an independent who became dependent, it hurt him financially. That was his first run up north, he's a southern trucker, he was unloading, the truck was running and it died at the dock! That's what I have for now, I'm not sure about getting that fuel up to the injectors. That's going to be the bitch.

[ElevenBravo]

Okay bro, looks like I need to wait for the temps to rise to allow the gelled diesel to go back to "normal" state.... Which will be a day or two.

I can run a quick thaw additive, but Id need to pull the filters and add 50/50 to them before crank.

It is supposed to get up to 42.f this sunday so that would be a good day to thaw out and then add the typical anti gel additive...

Because, its going to dip back down to 8.f THIS TUESDAY night... Thats the plan, anyway...

If there is ANY MORE info, dont hesitate to post up!

Thx,
EB

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

OK, talked to #2 he's the smart one. (A trucker) He owns a diesel truck and even makes his own bio till the chinese guy decided to start selling his old oil from the buffet. He used to get it for free. He said you need to keep your tank full for cold weather. (condensation) The other thing was you could run some kerosine in there as well. It will thin the mixture. Kerosine is diesel just with and oil ash additives. Also yes with the additive. He wasn't sure about your area and the type of diesel they sell up there but they sell different types in different geos of the country due to environmental conditions. That's about as far as I can get ya.

[bacpacker]

First off I am no desiel mechanic! We have a bunch of Deseil Kubotas at work and last week most all of them did the same thing. Today same thing again. They run Bio-deseil in everything and today we got a notice that we needed to start using only pure deseil. Apparently the bio attracts water and causes it to gel quicker. But any fuel will get water in it either from the tank where you fuel or condensation from your own tank by letting it run low. It is best to keep tanks topped off, this limits condesation.
BTW, the additive does help. I store fuel for my tractors and keep treatment in everything that has fuel in it.

[TroubleShooter]

Just some thoughts
Running out of fuel last week allowed the water and garbage get into filter, low temps froze water restricting filter.
Yes, your temps was low enough to gell untreated fuel, the fuel appears very cloudy prior to gell state.

Yes warm temps will only help you now unless you go thru additional processes.

Gasoline added to diesel will lower gell point. Last resort if necessary and only above 40 degrees for proper mixing.

You could heat some diesel up with additive added and pour into tank raising the temps of fuel in tank. I would try a 2 to 1, add 10 gallon of warm fuel to 5 gal of cold.

[ElevenBravo]

Very helpful guys... Thanks for all the advice! Im just waiting on a thaw right now...

EB

[ElevenBravo]

Yesterday, I got some Power Service in the white bottle for winter...

http://empiredieselperformance.com/media/catalog/product/3/2/32ozdieselfuelsupplement.jpg

Today, the temp got up to 39.f and I was too anxious to wait for it to get any higher.

After several cranking sessions (to keep the starter from over heating), I got the War Wagon to fire & run. A little rough at first but smoothed right up.

I took a can and got 5 gals of fresh DF2 and dumped it in, bringing the gauge to 1/2, then added a few ounces of Power Service.

I first drove it around the block, in case something went wrong Id be in easy walking distance. A few circles around the neighbourhood and then to the secondary. Two trips up and and back then brought her home.

Later in the evening, I took her to 7-11 for coffee and it started & ran fine. It actually ran BETTER than it has in a long time, so Im sure the additive has some good lube stuff AND the cetane boost must be doing some good for it.... WIth ULSD and an old engine, Im pretty sure I need to be adding this stuff to each fill up... summer time will be grey bottle.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41QPQ4dOClL.jpg

Temps tonight (26JAN14) will be 32.f, but Mon is slated to be 6.f and Tue 8.f, so Ill know better then, but Im pretty sure... the problem is solved, and as long as I keep some liquid love in the tank, shouldnt happen again.

Thanks for everyone's help!!!


EB

[bacpacker]

That is the brand I run in my fuel. Haven't had any issues. Glad yours in running better.

[MegaCPC]

Did you check the carb or the plugs? ;)

Glad its up and running. Maybe check the fuel filter for any shit that got sucked up from the bottom of the tank when you ran it dry.

[ElevenBravo]

Im flat broke now, but come payday.... Ill be swapping the primary and secondary...


At 5.f, I think gelling was the main suspect, but as you pointed out... empty-trash-filter makes good sense!

EB

[Sniper-T]

Up here in the real cold, the refineries actually add something to the fuel so consumers don't have to. As long as it is plugged in to start, a diesel will run all day. We have one diesel forklift at work, and it spends most of it's life idling outside when it isn't in use, an yesterday for example, it was -45C and it ran like a top.
I'd be checking the injectors... sounds like you sucked up some crud/water from the tank when you ran it empty. And yeah, gas or diesel, try to never let your tank get too empty. asking for trouble!
dump a can of seafoam in.

[bacpacker]

Sniper do you guys use Bio-Desiel or straight? Our stuff at work is all BIO and we were told this week that they were bringing in straight and to use only that until spring.

[Sniper-T]

both are available, it is basically the consumers choice what you want. A coworker runs biodiesel in his Jetta and swears by it... while another runs regular in his Ford, and swears by it. 6 of one...

[Gunfixr]

I ran a Ford 6.9L for probably 10yrs.
Yes the fuel will gel when it gets cold. Actually, it's not water, although you do not want water in the fuel.
As you refine crude oil, there are many things produced along the way, going from only a little refining, to very well refined. I used to have the list, in order. I'll see if I can find it. Anyway, diesel is not that far down the list, just a few notches after fuel oil, just a notch or two above kerosene. Diesel still has a fair bit of oil in it, and still has paraffin(wax) in it. When it gets cold enough, the paraffin hardens out, becoming a waxy gel in the fuel. This won't flow or burn properly.
I used to add kerosene in the winter as anti-gel, because I didn't want to spend the big bucks either. In the Fords 20 gallon tank, around a quart is sufficient, but two is even better. You can go higher if you want. I believe the Blazer has about a 30 gallon tank. If so, I'd probably put somewhere between 2 quarts and a gallon per tank, depending on just how cold it is. You can add kerosene to 50/50 to get your fuel back, but it won't go down the lines, just get the tank.
Kerosene also add cetane, so it's like octane booster is to gas. It will also make the engine run hotter, so be careful about using it in the summer. I used to have to cover the entire radiator with a sheet of cardboard, with about a 4" square hole in the center to get the engine temps up to normal, and get heat. Plugging it in overnight when it's this cold also helps with starting.
If you put gas in your diesel, it will run, as long as the concentration isn't too high, but you're killing your injector pump. The oil, wax, and sulfur still in diesel lubricates the injector pump, which gas does not have. This is why the trucking industry went crazy when the EPA demanded getting sulfur out of diesel fuel.
You can run gas of you add oil to it. Even better is to add oil and kerosene. We had a truck at work got about 3/4 tank of gas put in it. I added 2 or 3 quarts of oil, and topped off with diesel, and it ran ok. A little hard to start.
Try to avoid ether. They get "addicted". This happens because burning the ether form a glaze in the upper firing cylinder area, which insulates the firing cylinder from engine heat and glow plug heat. once fully "addicted", it will only start without ether if the engine is fully warm.
This can be cured. Fire it up, let it warm up, take off the air cleaner and spray WD-40 straight down the intake. Do it until the engine just about chokes out, wait until it settles back down, and do it some more. If mildly addicted, 4 to 6 times usually does it. If not, just do it more.


All of this info is for older, pre-computer diesel engines. I do not know if any of this will work for computer controlled diesel engines.

[ElevenBravo]

Oh yeah, ether... must always carry a can, but ONLY for EMERGENCIES!

Mine has only had one shot since Ive owned it... that was after I had pulled all the hard lines to replace head gaskets (yeah, lots o' fun!!).

Trying to purge the system was a major pain... The only thing that got it to crank & fire was a 1 second shot of starter fluid, after that she was golden, has been ever since.

Im thinking Fixr must be considered a resident diesel expert, seriously!

EB

[Possom]

When I am having trouble getting my tractor going (glow plugs are hit and miss) instead of using ether which causes build up. I put some chainsaw gas (2 cycle mixed) gas on a rag and hold it on the air intake. Crank it over and it fires right off. Knocks like crazy for a second but runs.

[Gunfixr]

One shot of ether won't addict it.

Never tried the chainsaw gas thing.

Don't know about an "expert", just drove the Ford diesel for about 10yrs, pre-computer engine. Was mostly poor, so found the least expensive way to get around. Diesel mechanics were few and expensive, so learned about it and worked on it myself.

I took a standard F250 with C6, International Harvester 6.9L, 4 wheel drive, model of 1984, and converted it to military 1 1/4 ton solid axles, independently mounted gear drive transfer case (meaning 3 drive shafts), and rebuilt the C6, along with two injector pump replacements, head gaskets (stupidity), injectors, and other more standard things. It rode on 44-18.5-16.5R" Monster Mudders. The AC died and I installed a converted AC to air compressor pump. I personally did all the work and fabricating.

I certainly don't know everything, but I could keep it running, on the cheap.

[ElevenBravo]

Dont sell yourself short Fixr, your an expert whether you know it or not...


Also, link to thread on the work we did today:

http://www.shtfready.com/threads/4178-Big-work-on-the-War-Wagon-today!

EB