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2die4
03-04-2014, 03:01 AM
Original article here: http://www.armytimes.com/article/20140228/NEWS/302280014/Source-Army-to-wear-test-digital-MultiCam-pattern


The Army will soon wear-test a digital camouflage pattern inspired by MultiCam, a source tells Army Times.

If successful, this could become the standard Army Combat Uniform pattern for soldiers in garrison and while deployed.

This isn’t the only option, however. The Army continues to consider dressing soldiers in Marine and Navy camo patterns, under certain scenarios, according to the source, who has knowledge of the testing plan.

An Army spokesman confirmed Friday that the service was launching wear-tests but would only say the tests will incorporate “various camouflage patterns.”

Testing is scheduled for this fiscal year, which ends Sept. 30. Locations will include:

■Fort Polk, La.

■Yuma Proving Ground, Ariz.

■Fort Shafter, Hawaii

■Fort Benning, Ga.

The source, who requested anonymity, said the Army is examining a digital design that uses the same colors as in MultiCam.

Complicating matters has been the stipulation Congress approved in the 2014 Defense Authorization Act that directed the Defense Department to “to adopt and field a common combat and camouflage utility uniform, or family of uniforms, for specific combat environments, to be used by all members of the armed forces.”

This stipulation has the Army taking a closer look at the camouflage patterns of their peers.

It was the Marine Corps that fielded the first digital-style camouflage pattern — MARPAT— in 2002, which led each service to develop its own design, including the Army’s beleaguered Universal Camouflage Pattern.

MARPAT is recognized as the best and most effective combat uniform, according to a 2012 report from the Government Accountability Office.

But Marine Corps officials have not always embraced the idea of other services adopting it. The Navy, while not using MARPAT, does use similar woodland and desert variants.

Both of the the Navy and Marine patterns appear to be on the Army’s radar and under serious consideration. A source confirmed that, if selected, these patterns would only be used in specific regions and circumstances. The digital version of MultiCam would be the primary pattern for the Army Combat Uniform at home and on most deployments, a source confirmed.

The Army in 2010 began shopping for three new combat uniforms — a woodland variant, a desert variant and a “transitional” variant that covers everything in between. Twenty-two patterns were tested from June 2010 through September 2011.

Fifty uniforms for each camouflage pattern were put through extensive field trials in 2012.

PEO Soldier at the time said the official recommendations would be submitted to leadership in October 2012 with production beginning in early 2013.

Late last year it looked like the Army was on the cusp of making an announcement.

In September, Sgt. Maj. of the Army Raymond Chandler said the Army’s next camouflage uniform should come in different colors for different environments, and the pattern would be similar to MultiCam.

Less than two weeks earlier, the Army had entered into negotiations with Crye Precision, of New York City, for the rights to MultiCam. Crye was one of four industry competitors that were identified as finalists in the Army’s competition for new camouflage.

However, negotiations between the Army and Crye Precision have since broken down over the cost, according to an Army source.

I hope it's soon. The worthless UCP patter needs to go.

When they do finally dump the pattern it will be good for Preppers looking for USGI gear and have a crap ton of time and Krylon.

The Army is like a teenage girl. Can't figure out what it wants and when they do, they change it. Again. And again. And again.

ElevenBravo
03-04-2014, 10:15 PM
THANK GOD!

Damn ACU pattern is garbage! Okay, ACU and tan boots work really really good for Afganastan... but thats about it.

I always said ACU stood for Afganastan Combat Uniform. :-)

Im still a big fan of woodland camo, and believe it or not, straight OD Green...

EB

2die4
03-04-2014, 11:45 PM
THANK GOD!

Damn ACU pattern is garbage! Okay, ACU and tan boots work really really good for Afganastan... but thats about it.


EB

Actually the multi cam was a result of the ACU not working in Afhgany land.

ElevenBravo
03-05-2014, 12:24 AM
Oh... I didnt know,, I wasnt there... but from the photos I had seen, it appeared to be well suited.

So I guess the conclusion is, ACU is good for nothing, aye?

EB

ak474u
03-05-2014, 12:46 AM
Oh... I didnt know,, I wasnt there... but from the photos I had seen, it appeared to be well suited.

So I guess the conclusion is, ACU is good for nothing, aye?

EB

I'm pretty sure lots of people call ACU. "I C U"

izzyscout21
03-05-2014, 03:24 AM
I'm pretty sure lots of people call ACU. "I C U"

"Chemlight cam".....

First off, lets clarify.

ACU actually stands for "army combat uniform", which is the term for the garment itself. ACU refers to the design for the overall uniform itself (pocket layout, etc), not the camo pattern. Just as BDU stands for "battle dress uniform", its woodland camo pattern that we all grew to love is the M85 woodland pattern. There was also a pre-cursor to the ARPAT pattern ACU's called the CCU. It looked very similar to the ACU, but the pocket arrangement was slightly different and lacked the ACU's mandarin collar. It was produced in 3 color desert camo, and in very small quantities. It was issued to the first Stryker brigades and was used as a test garment for what would eventually become the ACU pattern we know today.

ARPAT (army camouflage pattern) is the actual camo in question. It is also formally known as "UCP" or universal camouflage pattern. Unlike it's name says, it is not a universal pattern.

Multicam was adopted by the service as OCP or "Operation Enduring Freedom Camouflage Pattern". The uniforms are cut in a ACU pattern, but using the OCP (multicam) material. It was fielded to address the piss-poor performance of ARPAT in almost every environment.

I still for the life of me cannot figure this out.....

I don't understand the service's nearly erotic fascination with digital patterns.

I also cant understand the logic of spending a bunch more money trying to develop a new pattern when

1) Multicam has proven to be an effective, suitable pattern
2) multicam is highly favored among the guys that use it
3) multicam uniforms and equipment are already available in the supply system

Retooling for a completely new pattern for equipment an uniforms seems absolutely absurd to me.

I don't believe that the OCP multicam is the end all be all of camo, but its a damn sight better than ARPAT. There are also other variations of Multicam (woodland, arctic, etc) in the Multicam lineup that would fit the bill. Why must we reinvent the wheel?

2die4
03-05-2014, 04:27 AM
Why must we reinvent the wheel?

Brother, every time I see a new online program that replaces a perfectly working one, changing us.army.mil to mail.mil, uniforms change talk, etc I ask myself that EVERY single time. Imagine how much money we could save just on the "If it ain't broke don't fix it rule"

Brownwater Riverrat 13
03-05-2014, 12:31 PM
First of all I would like to say this is why we have so much waste fraud and abuse of our defense budget. Defense contractors blow our Soldier, Sailor money on shit like this. The serviceman pays for it, either out of pocket by having to buy the new uniform or by having to give up more benefits or part of the paycheck due to budget cuts.

Second I can see where my brother Izzy was when he was supposed to be helping me test antennas at (1000) now you have no excuse bud.

Third, foreign military does not seem to have a problem keep their camo patterns limited to one. We are like project fuckin runway. Maybe we should hire Tim Gunn for the Department of Defense I imagine he's cheaper. Having seen his performance I'll fire the others and hire him. At least he puts them on a budget and a schedule, enforces the schedule and then kicks their ass off if their shit sucks.

I can't believe I just said that....................

2die4
03-05-2014, 02:37 PM
Maybe we should hire Tim Gunn for the Department of Defense I imagine he's cheaper. Having seen his performance I'll fire the others and hire him. At least he puts them on a budget and a schedule, enforces the schedule and then kicks their ass off if their shit sucks.

I can't believe I just said that....................

Tell us, do you watch the show while painting your nails too? J/k

Brownwater Riverrat 13
03-05-2014, 03:37 PM
Actually I'm doing LadyHK's nails thank you very much. I do mine during project runway all stars. You ought to see my camies!

The range is clear for overhead fire................

Stormfeather
03-05-2014, 05:01 PM
um yea. . . . . .

There are several things running thru my mind right now. . .

what is project runway?

Who is Tim Gunn?

What is Project Runway Allstars?

. . . and why are you painting your nails? ( I understand Lady HK's, because ya gotta pamper HH-6 every now and then, happy wife, happy life, I get it.)

I will wait for the answers before I draw any conclusions and engage in scuttlebutt or clear my range for overhead fire.

izzyscout21
03-05-2014, 05:55 PM
Brother, every time I see a new online program that replaces a perfectly working one, changing us.army.mil to mail.mil, uniforms change talk, etc I ask myself that EVERY single time. Imagine how much money we could save just on the "If it ain't broke don't fix it rule"

Good grief, dont even get me started on the AKO change to the mail.mil system. Thats been an absolute nightmare.

Anyway...... Back to camo

ElevenBravo
03-05-2014, 10:30 PM
Ive got a set of MC, have yet had a chance to field it... I really, really, really like it.

If not MC, then ATACs, if they picked either, Id have a woody. However, ATACs is more better suited for woods, where I think MC is much more diverse...

MC test:
https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=multicam+test&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

ATACS test:
https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=atacs+test&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Im a firm believer, the EYE is the best test device for camo designs...

EB

Grumpy Old Man
03-06-2014, 01:51 AM
For all of you wondering about changing camo.........follow the money! Just beause something works does not mean that it will stay in place. No Profit!

Gunfixr
03-06-2014, 03:31 PM
IIRC, Multicam is patented, and the patent is held by Crye Precision. Therefore, the DoD would have to pay for rights to use it. I am sure that could be worked out, and probably cheaper than the method they will use to come up with something similar.
Seems I read something a few years back about how digital camo patterns messed with digital optical equipment, "confusing" it.

But of course, we are fighting in Third World shitholes, against people who have very limited modern technology. Unless I have that wrong.
Therefore, it is useless against our enemies, as they use the eye, not digital optical equipment.

I have some Multicam, and like it, but I still have some Woodland as well. But I have a strong liking to plain old solid earth tone colors.
I know I've put pics of guns I've sprayed by hand in a sort of camo pattern. While people look at them in the pics and say they don't look right, they seem to be easily lost in the woods. I sort of take a "natural" approach to it. Look at the colors present in the area. Look at the animals indigenous to the area. The animals always blend in, yet they are not "camo'ed". They are solid earth tones, maybe with some spots or shapes, just to help break up the overall shape.

2die4
03-09-2014, 05:55 PM
I think there is delay just on the sheer cost of outfitting each Solider with equipment. On average each soldier signs out about $1800-$2000 worth of gear. How many Soldiers are in the Army? It's all about pinching pennies.

bourneshooter
03-10-2014, 10:10 AM
The best source on all of this is to go to SoldierSystems.net.

Search "Camo" or "Multicam" and you'll find pages of well informed facts on the discussion.

http://soldiersystems.net/category/camo/


That said, find what works in your AO, most of the year, the best. Then use it. Add to it as needed for full camo. i.e. a base pattern of all uniforms/kit in Multicam. Then add an external coat/ghillie jacket in that terrain specific pattern over it if you need it.