Clotting Agents

[jamesneuen]

I know that everyone is currently obsessed with Quikclot but it MUST be removed very thoroughly before allowing the wound to seal. It is pretty much just clay and must be scrubbed out thoroughly.

I had read about an item that was similar, in granule form that you only needed to remove the majority of it. It worked to remove the water in the blood and make it solid, causing it to clot much faster. Since it is naturally antiseptic, the wound doesn't need to be cleaned thoroughly and your body naturally processes out any of it that is left in the wound.

Has anyone heard of this stuff before or know of an alternative that is naturally sterile that could be left in a wound and closed over? After dousing heavily with alcohol of course. I did a search but found nothing online.

[Stormfeather]

Well, first off, most folks know that QuikClot has now moved to gauze form over granules, which is the latest accepted for of treatment for wounds. Much easier to remove gauze than the granules, they moved to this about 3 years ago. The main issue they was having during combat missions with the QK before was in granule mode, there was issues with spill granules flying around when the helo came in for landings. Since its a thermobaric reaction, (when combined with any fluids, burns/cauterizes) warfighters were getting this stuff in the eyes and messing them up. It was easier to convert to quikclot impregnanted gauze to eliminate the granule issue.
The latest and greatest variant of granule you are probaby talking about is Celox, same thing, just not as harsh of a thermobaric reaction there isnt as much of a user penalty associated with using it. Myself, I carry all of them in my blowout kits.

[jamesneuen]

I know they switched off from granules. The wound still has to be cleaned really really well before sealing though.

Can your body process out and small amounts of celox left in the wound?

[Stormfeather]

The wound would need to be thoroughly cleaned out before any sealing would happen. That would include any type of foreign substance. Most times the quikclot or celox would be removed surgically because of what it is.

[Sniper-T]

Sounds like some pretty nasty stuff!

better than the alternative though...

[jamesneuen]

true but i was reading on celox that you can keep it packed until it starts to heal and just let it heal as an open wound, so long as you pack it. removal of it is just water. vs scrubbing out the quikclot.

[Sniper-T]

I have always been old school... cauterize a nasty wound with fire.... what are your referencesÉ

[jamesneuen]

the celox homepage faq. it's not really widely used yet so not much real experience from people.

[bourneshooter]

Only use the Celox or QuickClot impregnated gauze. I also will use the North American Rescue store brand of the same.

The gauze is removable just like any wound packed with gauze, only with rapid gauze packing ability thanks to the Hemostatic.

Avoid any granule useage at all costs.

Please obtain TCCC/TECC training.

North American Rescue does this, Dark Angel Medical is one of the best especially for a CONUS CCW/LEO perspective, also some local EMS providers will teach it.

They will cover the correct way and use of medical aids.

[jamesneuen]

I appreciate your assumption that I have no idea how to use clotting agents. I have however already attended first responder, emergency combat medic and advanced trauma classes. They cover Quikclot in gauze form.

My original post was to see if anyone knew what the different type was called. Answered=Celox.

Afterwards it continued in the removal of it and how in depth you needed to be. This is a SHTF forum. I don't count on having any medical assistance for removal. Thus the classes and digging for information. I want someone who has REAL world experience with it. Hearing what everyone says about it is nice but unless it's been used we personally have no idea. I have had to use Quikclot personally and the removal almost made me wish I had never used it. That's why I am looking at alternatives.

I disagree with your statement about never using the granules. Granule form with these is as effective if not more than the gauze due to the ability to insert it into a wound without causing increased trauma. The reason it was discontinued with Quikclot is because of the thermobaric effect and wind blowing it in soldier's eyes due to carelessness/needed speed.

[Sniper-T]

true but i was reading on celox that you can keep it packed until it starts to heal and just let it heal as an open wound, so long as you pack it. removal of it is just water. vs scrubbing out the quikclot.

uh duh! lol. I guess the google part of my brain fell asleep for a while

[jamesneuen]

lol, sorry. spouting off what seems relevant to the discussion as I research more and more. Bad habit of mine. I wish I could talk to people who actually use it and not just train on it/produce it.

[Stormfeather]

The problem with those of us that have used it, is that we do not get to see the after-effects of its use. I have used Celox, QuikClot, both in granule form, and the Quikclot in both granule and gauze form, and it works at stopping bleeding, but as far as what is done with it once the person is medvac'ed, well, I have no experience in that aspect.

[jamesneuen]

fair enough. might just have to wait till it becomes more popular.

[bourneshooter]

I appreciate your assumption that I have no idea how to use clotting agents. I have however already attended first responder, emergency combat medic and advanced trauma classes. They cover Quikclot in gauze form.

My original post was to see if anyone knew what the different type was called. Answered=Celox.

Afterwards it continued in the removal of it and how in depth you needed to be. This is a SHTF forum. I don't count on having any medical assistance for removal. Thus the classes and digging for information. I want someone who has REAL world experience with it. Hearing what everyone says about it is nice but unless it's been used we personally have no idea. I have had to use Quikclot personally and the removal almost made me wish I had never used it. That's why I am looking at alternatives.

I disagree with your statement about never using the granules. Granule form with these is as effective if not more than the gauze due to the ability to insert it into a wound without causing increased trauma. The reason it was discontinued with Quikclot is because of the thermobaric effect and wind blowing it in soldier's eyes due to carelessness/needed speed.

When i went through the TCCC course the first time a few years ago it was explained why granules were ditched, as well as the thermobaric version of CQ. They explained this by showing the history. First someone observed how pouring instant mashed potatoes into something would quickly soak up the blood and expand. This helped accelerate clotting. Then Quick Clots thermobaric effect granules went into use. During this use, it went blowing all over getting in eyes causing issues. The long term negative of this was when people who had the granules poured in a wound had blood clots as a result of it getting in the blood stream and clotting arteries. Hence the impregnated gauze that is the only way approved by the CoTCCC currently.

When the thermobaric effects of old QuicClot were complained about, Celox's non thermobaric product gained ground. Now both companies and North American Rescue sell Hemostatic infused gauze that is non thermobaric.

I personally do not have any granules, nor do I recommend it since my training and instructors in TCCC have all made it clear the negatives to using it.

Happy to hear you are trained in your listed classes. Since I didn't see anything in your original post I threw that training line out, like I do whenever replying to medical questions.