Rule of three's.........revised

[jamesneuen]

So I found the rule of three's interesting and kind of adopted it as almost a warning but now I have heard a less common version.

3 months without companionship
3 weeks without food
3 days without water
3 hours without shelter
3 minutes without air
3 seconds without faith

Just wanted to see hear your opinions on it and I'm not saying faith has to mean religion or that companionship means people.

[Sniper-T]

3 weeks without food
3 days without water
3 minutes without air

This is the only rule of three that I have ever heard of. The 'addons' are subjective, and untrue, IMO.

[jamesneuen]

I am not saying they are absolutes. I just thought it was an interesting point of view adding in a few mental things as well. Without hope or faith you would really just give up right in the beginning and without companionship or something to fight for why would people even see the need to continue if they have no reason to try?

[Stormfeather]

Well, a persons will to live is something pretty big I would say. As far as companionship and faith, those are subjective to a persons personal belief system. Myself, I think I will stick with Sniper-T on this one, air, water, food are my primary, the others, ehh, not so much

[jamesneuen]

lol fair enough.

[eagle326]

The will to live is first and fore most ; everything else is secondary. If you have not the will to live ; Hope and or faith will do you no good at all. Been there ; done that.

Companionship will only come to mind after you've survived. The something to fight for is called survival.

[Sniper-T]

The rule of three is just that... a RULE. Although it isn't set in stone (I knew a guy who can hold his breathe for 4-1/2 minutes.)

The others, you may think are important, and for some may be... but:
Billions of single people exist without companionship.
Umpteen million homeless people exist without shelter
And only God knows how many have no faith, yet continue to exist

[eagle326]

The rule of three is just that... a RULE. Although it isn't set in stone (I knew a guy who can hold his breathe for 4-1/2 minutes.)

The others, you may think are important, and for some may be... but:
Billions of single people exist without companionship.
Umpteen million homeless people exist without shelter
And only God knows how many have no faith, yet continue to exist

Well said . To each their own.
It matters not other peoples beliefs or thoughts ; only your convictions will dictate whether you survive or perish.

[jamesneuen]

Maybe hope would have been better than faith?

[ak474u]

OP isn't too far off really. Sure initially survival is most important. But... There's always Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

For your reading pleasure:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs

[eagle326]

Maybe hope would have been better than faith?


In reality ; What's the difference between hope or faith? ( Survival )

One must have faith in them self that they have the skills to survive in order for the other items to take seed.
One can hope that they're skilled enough to survive but it cannot rule the natural instincts. It must be a back seat rider on the journey.

Hope is intended for future events. Where as surviving is in the present. The two can merge and will if one lives through the struggle. Then hope comes into play planning the future after the struggle.

As for faith.
Faith is the belief in yourself and your abilities to see you through your time of turmoil. No more or no less in my world.

Just my 2-cents

[Sniper-T]

still irrelevant... imo. HOPE is like faith... Nice, but unnecessary. people have the intrinsic need to survive built in... Like faith... hope may drive some forward, but is it a NEED or a RULE. no.

Look in the face of a true homeless person begging on the street... All they want is food/drink. They may sketch up a sign to play on your heartstrings, but all they want is food/drink! Gobbless!

[robsdak]

i will bite.

i am going have to stick with S-T, Eagle and SF on this one. basic needs are required, others, 'ehh, not so much'. for me anyways, other maybe different.

[jamesneuen]

but if survival isn't a choice then how would suicide be explained? (not trying to start an argument over that statement) If survival, faith, hope is not a conscious decision then how can a person decide to go against it. Our body has the majority of our actions made into a habit.

We get thirsty, we go get a drink. That is our mind responding to what our body tells it. Just like building a fire, or shelter when cold etc. But let's put a person like me in the middle of the desert with no water. I've never been in the desert. I don't know where I am going to find water. So I have two conscious choices. Go and try to find water or lay here and die because I don't know how. So how would you define that initial urge to go find it against all odds? It would be easier to give up and die rather than push myself through all the pain and disappointment if I don't think I can find it. Will to survive, stubborness, or just plain refusal to do nothing?

I would say that hope or faith belongs there more than air. My body naturally breathes. If I make the conscious effort to hold my breathe and pass out, I will start breathing again.

[robsdak]

sui·cide noun \ˈsü-ə-ˌsīd\

: the act of killing yourself because you do not want to continue living

: a person who commits suicide

: an action that ruins or destroys your career, social position, etc.

survival is a choice........... you can choose to or not. how is survival not a choice? suicide is a choice as well. it is the conscious decision too give up.

as for being the desert and not having the ability to locate water? sounds like bad planning/lack of training/lack of knowledge.

[Sniper-T]

Survival IS a choice... if you are thirsty, YOU tell your body to go get a drink. just as YOU can tell your body not to. It is not hard-coded into your being, it is just common sense. you can choose to ignore it, akin to ignoring anything else. It isn't faith that makes you stumble blindly accross a dessert, faith would result in an Artesian well popping up at your feet; along with the swedish bikini team... stubborness, is what pushes you to walk and walk and walk. YOU're conscious decision to say "I am not going to fucking die here"... Just as YOU can say 'fuck it' and lay down and wait until help arrives, albeit probably in the form of buzzards.

Make a conscious effort to stop breathing??? tie yourself to a rock and throw it off a bridge. It isn't your instincts, or your faith that unties the rope so you can live. it is your conscious mind... your will to live. and that has nothing to do with faith. As you descended, you mumbled 'oh god, oh fuck' oh god, oh fuck' all the way to the bottom, and once you hit bottom and you accepted that you were fucked, it wasn't God who untied the rope.

Suicide is a cowards way out. It is for the weak minded. Technically, God will accept and forgive anyone who asks for forgiveness, but in his mind he is shaking his head in disdain. Your body will start breathing again if you hold your breath and pass out... because it was designed to do so... not because you have faith, The same autonomic response will occur to the most blasphemous heathen!

[ElevenBravo]

Not for argument, but...

Survival IS a choice... if you are thirsty, YOU tell your body to go get a drink.
After being without water for two days, *I* did not tell my body I was thirsty... It was the other way around. After beating the bush with all my field gear, an M60 AND extra ammo for the damn thing, in 90 deg heat and humidity, I fail to see the validity of your point. I suspect the statement was well intentioned, but with limited personal experience.




Suicide is a cowards way out. It is for the weak minded.
Sounds like a pulpit answer, I doubt everyone that let them self go were cowards. I have not undergone cancer treatment, nor have I been diagnosed with limited time to live... but Ive been around those that were. The misery they endure, the pain that wont stop and the grim reaper getting closer, if they did take the express way out, Id think they were rather brave, than coward... I could never do it, I dont have the guts.



Technically, God will accept and forgive anyone who asks for forgiveness, but in his mind he is shaking his head in disdain.
Technically, thats a pulpit answer too... Not everyone is christian and subscribe to there beliefs, so I assume you are addressing those that do...

I am only pointing out the other side of the coin. Like it or not, the only way to think is not the way I think... or anyone else. That is all.

EB

[Sniper-T]

No offence taken EB... You make an interesting argument... will think on this for a bit and come back. remember like the op said:





Just wanted to see hear your opinions on it and I'm not saying faith has to mean religion or that companionship means people.

means we are all entitled to our opinions and encouraged to share them!

[ElevenBravo]

Thank you T for the respectful nod, I had hoped the post would be received as more expanding thought than something intending to create strife.

EB

[Sniper-T]

Aw shucks EB... you should know me by now... I try to generate conversation, while not alienating people. I like discussion. I like different opinions. I like to learn, to expand my horizons...

yeah, I guess I Am Canadian!

lol

[Stormfeather]

Must be a Canadian thing. . .put a few of us good ole boys together, and start talks like these, add a few adult beverages in. . . and hell, it may be something worth selling tickets too!

But in the end, while we may have differing opinions, we still would have each others back if they needed it.

That is why I enjoy these conversations with you guys. . . I may look at BWRR or Izzy or any of you guys for that matter. . . and think. ."man. . .BWRR/Izzy/EB/ST/HM. . . .damn. . this guy is so far in left field, hes not even in the ballfield anymore!" but if any of you guys needed help, all that is put aside, because I know, just because we have different opinions on many things, we are all still working on a common goal in the end. I cant wait to see where this conversation goes!

And for the record, Suicide is a planned event, having dealt closely with multiple family and friends who its happened to, and personally witnessed it once, its all about being at peace with ones self, the hurt and pain is over with, so its weird and hard to describe at the same time.

[ladyhk13]

All I can say is I HOPE that when I die I have been a good enough person to go to Heaven and I have FAITH in God that he will allow me a place at His table.
I love all of my Ant family. Ya'll are crazy wonderful.

[Vodin]

Hope is not used in survival. When your placed in a survival situation hope is the last thing one should be thinking about. What I thought about was I will survive, I will achieve and I will overcome. Hoping for things to be handed to you to make your issue easier is cause for failure. If you want a deeper detailed explanation it is simple. The world is you and you are your world. No one... no human cares about you more than you do. The gods if you believe in them don't 'help' the sick and dying. So it is a test of your belief don't die do everything in your known ability and push past your comfort zone.

If you work from your comfort zone you wont achieve the desired outcome.

[Sniper-T]

After being without water for two days, *I* did not tell my body I was thirsty... It was the other way around. After beating the bush with all my field gear, an M60 AND extra ammo for the damn thing, in 90 deg heat and humidity, I fail to see the validity of your point. I suspect the statement was well intentioned, but with limited personal experience.
While never having served I do not have YOUR experience, but have had many opportunities of my own, and in fact rendered myself unconscious once due to dehydration because I chose not to drink. I was working in a machine shop in Isla Provadencia (Columbia) while working as crew on a sailboat, and spent a day and a half sweating like a dog in a dungeon of a building making a part needed for the boat. After a day and a half, the sweating stopped. It took another day to finish the part, and by then I was borderline delirious, but refused to drink the water. What came out of the tap had the same colour/smell/texture of what is in sewage lagoons. I chose to wait until I was back aboard ship to drink. I understand what you mean, but you still chose to listen to your body and drink.




Sounds like a pulpit answer, I doubt everyone that let them self go were cowards. I have not undergone cancer treatment, nor have I been diagnosed with limited time to live... but Ive been around those that were. The misery they endure, the pain that wont stop and the grim reaper getting closer, if they did take the express way out, Id think they were rather brave, than coward... I could never do it, I dont have the guts.
In this kind of extreme case, I agree with you! Apples to Oranges. I was referring to the many people that I know that gave up their lives because of some event that they thought was insurmountable... like my buddy's kid who recently did because his marriage failed. Or an old friend did because he lost his job. Or like another old friend because his girlfriend cheated on him. I am sure that had they had the opportunity to look back two years later, they would have realized that those events were not 'end of world' and could have been worked through. A good buddy died this spring after losing a brutal fight against cancer. He fought until his dying breath, made easier via morphine, but I know that if he had the wherewithal to end it himself sooner, he would have and I would not have thought any less of him.




Technically, thats a pulpit answer too... Not everyone is christian and subscribe to there beliefs, so I assume you are addressing those that do...

EB

This is a pulpit answer, because if you do not believe in God, then the whole thought of what he thinks of you, and whether he accepts you is moot. You have a bad day at the office, you kill yourself and go into the great oblivious nothing... and you leave nothing behind... except those who loved you, liked you, cared for you; to deal with your decision... and the holes that you left in their hearts and their lives.

I saved a buddy's life once while we were in University. He succumbed to the pressures, lost a job/girlfriend/whatever... I stopped by to visit him and found him on the floor unconscious among a bevy of empty pill bottles... Called 911 and they got him in in time to pump his stomach and flush him out. We lost touch years later, but now he is happily married with a brood of kids and happy as happy can be. He and his family thanked me many times for being there for him. He underwent counselling after the event, and was able to bounce back and got the tools to deal with the 'small stuff'

IMO

[ElevenBravo]

Nice follow up T, well done!
EB

[ak474u]

Nice follow up T, well done!
EB

You gotta watch out for sniper, he's up to something, I just watched that documentary Canadian Bacon, and I know he's up to something! Lol

[Sniper-T]

Mmmmm Bacon...

[Willie51]

Hope is not used in survival. When your placed in a survival situation hope is the last thing one should be thinking about. What I thought about was I will survive, I will achieve and I will overcome. Hoping for things to be handed to you to make your issue easier is cause for failure. If you want a deeper detailed explanation it is simple. The world is you and you are your world. No one... no human cares about you more than you do. The gods if you believe in them don't 'help' the sick and dying. So it is a test of your belief don't die do everything in your known ability and push past your comfort zone.

If you work from your comfort zone you wont achieve the desired outcome.

Vodin’s post shows the difference between Hope and Faith. The definition of Faith- “The evidence of things hoped for, but not yet seen”. So, Vodin has faith in himself to survive and the evidence of that faith is his belief in himself and the actions he takes to make it and survive. Hoping is good too, but won’t get it done without actions and belief. Faith is knowing without a doubt that when you turn on a light switch in your home, the lights will come on. Hope is not really knowing, but wishing the lights will come on when you flip that switch.

My humble opinion anyways. :cool:

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

All I can say is I HOPE that when I die I have been a good enough person to go to Heaven and I have FAITH in God that he will allow me a place at His table.
I love all of my Ant family. Ya'll are crazy wonderful.

You're not allowed to die and all your sins have been paid for, you're welcome. Therefore I might not meet you there (Heaven) but I'm working on getting a pass so I can come up and visit ya! Or maybe you'll get to come down and visit me, who knows but you're not allowed to pass on cause I ain't gonna get left hangin around here by myself!

[eagle326]

You're not allowed to die and all your sins have been paid for, you're welcome. Therefore I might not meet you there (Heaven) but I'm working on getting a pass so I can come up and visit ya! Or maybe you'll get to come down and visit me, who knows but you're not allowed to pass on cause I ain't gonna get left hangin around here by myself!

Don't worry your salty dog self river Rat. I'll be there right beside ya'.
Somebody has to take control of the lower realm. It might as well be us and whomever else is on the low end of the pole. :)

Remember they only send in the worst of the worst to wreak a change of attitude on those who need up bringing.
Just sayin'

Not that you worry anyway. ;)

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

Huh? Oh, yeah I figured they needed a wreckin crew down there. So that's always been my specialty, cleaning up the messes. I figure I'd end up as the maintenance man in purgatory and have to spend my evenings down in hell. I mean seeings I'm so good at FUBAR'n shit and all they could use a guy like me right? ..............right?

Either way I hope they got dozers! It'll be on like Donkey Kong Brother!

[robsdak]

Don't worry your salty dog self river Rat. I'll be there right beside ya'.
Somebody has to take control of the lower realm. It might as well be us and whomever else is on the low end of the pole. :)

Remember they only send in the worst of the worst to wreak a change of attitude on those who need up bringing.
Just sayin'

Not that you worry anyway. ;)

wow, if that's the case, Eagle save me a seat. i have been known to be a ball-buster. ;)

[eagle326]

Huh? Oh, yeah I figured they needed a wreckin crew down there. So that's always been my specialty, cleaning up the messes. I figure I'd end up as the maintenance man in purgatory and have to spend my evenings down in hell. I mean seeings I'm so good at FUBAR'n shit and all they could use a guy like me right? ..............right?

Either way I hope they got dozers! It'll be on like Donkey Kong Brother!

OH HELL YEA!!!! Been 43 years since I've ridden the ( D.O.D. )
Dozer Of Destruction!!!!! But I'm for a good time in forever eternal !! We'll do odd ;even if you concur. One of will rule on even weeks and the other on the odd week. Being I'm a lefty I'll take the Odd Weeks if okay with you.

GOD!!! ; I love the smell of Fire & Brimstone. Almost as good a Napalm . Oh !!! ; Screw the messes ; let the high and mighties clean up the bull-shit. ;)

[Sniper-T]

^
Another re-affirmation... why you fuckers are my friends!!!

Rock on, gents... ROCK ON!!!

[eagle326]

wow, if that's the case, Eagle save me a seat. i have been known to be a ball-buster. ;)

No problem Rob. We'll take all the help we can get. :p
Besides it's not that you're probably a up standing citizen considering the people you hang out with in the real world and especially on the internet.

Just sayin' :p

[eagle326]

^
Another re-affirmation... why you fuckers are my friends!!!

Rock on, gents... ROCK ON!!!


No problem Sniper , Cause you're coming with us !! We need to have somebody to throw some COLD HARD ASS reality on their sorry asses as I say.


Through the cold and through the fire
We are the masters of you wanton desires
You may try us once
You may try us twice :

But shame on you ; We don't count to thrice
Now you will know fire and ice.

[Sniper-T]

now, that... THAT... is my world... my brother!

[eagle326]

now, that... THAT... is my world... my brother!

Come forth my brethren and let us rule this domain because we can ; If not us you ask yourself who then ?
Nobody !!! ; For we are the true rulers of said domain. :cool:

[robsdak]

No problem Rob. We'll take all the help we can get. :p
Besides it's not that you're probably a up standing citizen considering the people you hang out with in the real world and especially on the internet.

Just sayin' :p

well piss on you then. :p just because i have 'friends' that i have, i am precluded from a little fun in the eternal world. i can be bad, i promise. :) i bring plenty to the table.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

Like what, napkins and table clothes? Probably DOYLIES! This is freakin me out I need to take a dirt nap..........

[Sniper-T]

Robsdak: The keeper of the doilies...