40 phone was good to me tonight!

[ElevenBravo]

Just got off the radio, had some really great ragchews on 40 phone tonight! Worked DE, IL and KY! Lowest RST was 55, best was 58... so 100w into my homebrew vertical is working a treat!

Was happy to make the contacts and wanted to share.
EB

[bacpacker]

Good report EB! What kind of vertical have you come up with?

[ElevenBravo]

28 foot tall Jackite fiberglass mast with 10ga wire secured to it.. an LDG 4:1 BALUN at the base, the whole thing is mounted on a chain link fence... which is also the ground and counterpoise.

28' (Ive had this for a while)
http://www.jackite.com/product_info.php?cPath=41_44&products_id=131&osCsid=a9e098114435a066ecd4a959fc48a00b


31' (Id like to have one of these, 3' more wire)
http://www.jackite.com/product_info.php?cPath=41_44&products_id=177&osCsid=a9e098114435a066ecd4a959fc48a00b


Basically, its a duplicate of the Eagle One antenna which sells for $165
http://www.w8afx.com/

The Eagle One is nothing fancy or special... its the same as mine, fiberglass pole and wire.

I work 40,20 and 15 on mine with good results!

EB

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

Well hell, I guess you should have let me know we could have tried to link up. Good to hear you are up and running but we still need to establish some comms, give me a shout when you have the time EB. Outstanding work, glad you are up and sparking!

[ElevenBravo]

RR, we can try again... But with your dipole orientation, Im not at your broadside so it likely wont work any better than before... I suspect if you can put up a vertical with omnidirectional propagation we could likely talk with little problem... I suspect.

EB

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

RR, we can try again... But with your dipole orientation, Im not at your broadside so it likely wont work any better than before... I suspect if you can put up a vertical with omnidirectional propagation we could likely talk with little problem... I suspect.

EB

Actually I have studied underwater sound propagation and according to my calculations you are on my "broadside" which me being a sailor puts you in a shitty situation...........OK having a moment I mean you're on my broadside at about 400 miles as the crow flies I don't see why we can't establish a link especially if your hitting IL and KY. OK, call me when you're ready, we'll give it another shot. If we're lucky Bacpacker will get his up before winter sets in.

[ElevenBravo]

RR, Ill be with you before the week is out...

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

Hey, no problem............I'm kinda FUBAR over here right now anyway. Take your time.

[ElevenBravo]

RR, if Im not mistaken, please confirm... when we spoke last your dipole was setup same as mine, the two ends pointed East and West.

EB

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

Uh, no mine wires run North South. I have a pretty good reception swath all around except it seems around 090 and 270 degrees + or - 10 degrees I would guess. I do hear guys in the "5" region but I think they are putting out some serious power and are directional Yagi's by listening to their conversations. I do hear the Carolina's, New York, Pennsylvania as well so I don't see why we can't make this work, hell you're right in the middle...........BUT...........you could be that piss hole in the snow. Or maybe that would be me? Still, mission comes first and it can't be accomplished on this thread. We can only come back bragging that we made it work and at least some of us got off our duffs and made shit work. We made a contingency plan......"not wanting to offend any of our readers with my last statement" wait a minute me offend someone? Yeah whatever.....anyway maybe we can some other folks onboard with this FINALLY. After all how many years have we been talking about a network?

OK, enough BS, call me when you're ready brother and we will try it again. I'm still puzzled, did you change something since the last time we tried this?

[ElevenBravo]

OK RR, sounds good... Your broadside is directed to me, so you RF lobes would be radiated in my direction (Im guessing you follow what Im saying so far, but this is as much for the readers too...). Since the dipole has greater emissions to the side, then we must assume sensitivity to reception would be similar... greater sensitivity from the side as well. Reception is not as "critical" as transmission, but understanding a horizontal antenna gives better insight.

On my end, I am running a vertical... so my RF has a different polarity. That doesnt always make any difference, guys with dipoles have been talking to guys with verticals for as long as ham radio has been around! However, if the distance or conditions are not "ideal", then the offending polarity *may* play a role in our inability to communicate.

Lastly, there is the take off angle, or the angle of which the RF "takes off" of the antenna... I could write a book on the subject and still not cover it, so I wont attempt to do it here... be it said though, the take off angle of an antenna will determine (in part) the effective range of your transmission.

On reception, the antenna doesnt really need to do much more than be in the zone where the RF is coming in. It doesnt necessarily need to be oriented any particular way or be any specific length (assuming were not talking about any type of YAGI design), but the rule of thumb will always be the same, the more wire in the air, the more RF it can receive. Think of it as a tarp collecting rain water.

Anywho, we SHOULD be able to communicate, if all the variables are working in our favor. We both know our antennas and equipment are working perfectly, so the only thing left would be propagation and weather. The way to determine this is to be persistent and continue to attempt making contact as we have been.

In closing, Ill speak on the dipole antenna... Regardless of the design, *any horizontal antenna that has a single radiator and a single radial* is by definition a dipole... same rules apply for a Carolina windom, off center dipole, G5RV, etc.. they are all dipoles and will basically have the same rules..

Dipoles: The ideal elevation for a dipole is the same as the distance from tip to tip. A 40m dipole will be 66 feet long, thus should be 66 feet above ground. A 20m dipole will be about 16 feel long, and thus need to be 16 feet above ground. When we bring the dipole down to a distance less than ideal, the take off angle rises... The lower you go, the more it rises. This principle is how we can take a simple dipole and make it work NVIS (Near Vertical Incidence Skywave). NVIS is for very short/close in communications.

My 40m dipole CANNOT be of the recommended elevation, it is mostly about 8 feet above ground (I know, pathetic, but its the best I can do!) so you can just guess how vertical the take off is! It wouldnt surprise me if it were modeled to be straight up into the sky!!

This is one reason, for me and my location, I prefer the vertical antenna, I get a lot better performance out of it just sitting on the ground, than I can with the best and most expensive dipole... Id never be able to get it in the air far enough for it to operate properly.

Thats all for now...
EB


RR: The short of it is: we will try some more! HA HA!

[bacpacker]

EB, do you think the vertical vs horizontal could be affecting comms at the distance? One of the guys that was in my emcomm group was big into hf and he complined all the time about verticals. I dont have any experience with them to speak of.

When my antenna goes in it will be running pretty much n-s. Not quite 180 degrees, but close. The way my property runs, one end is gonna be10-15' off the ground. Feed line will be around 35', the opposite end probably 20-30'.

[ElevenBravo]

EB, do you think the vertical vs horizontal could be affecting comms at the distance?
I think it very well could be a player.. I am self taught electronics & ham, so someone with more formal education in the field could probably give a more definitive answer.

For example: I used to have an Icom 706 Classic, which had 2m on it... not only that, but it had 2m SSB mode! I hooked it up to my vertical ground plane (144mhz of course...) and could not communicate with my buddy in Floyd county.. He was running a 2m dipole. When we got on the phone, he advised we needed to have the same polarization.. He could not hear me, and vice versa. The next day I made (and still have!) a 2m dipole out of some scrap copper pipe... I built it a little bigger than the formula called for, and using a VHF SWR meter, started trimming a little off the ends until the SWR went flat... I was resonant! That night, I talked to him 2m SSB clear as a bell!

As I said, verticals talk to dipoles and vice versa every day... HOW the opposing polarities do and dont play well is beyond my scope of understanding.

EB

PS
Some light reading here...
https://www.google.com/search?q=horizontal+and+vertical+polarization+rf&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

I (heart) Google images:
https://www.google.com/search?q=horizontal+and+vertical+polarization+rf&newwindow=1&client=firefox-a&hs=KIU&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=iSRYVJigOoaWigKOmYDoAQ&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1440&bih=788

[bacpacker]

I knew the vert vs horz was an issue on 2m. Wasnt sure about hf. I think you can probably still talk, just that contacts are not as solid. I'll see if i can talk toa buddy or two and get some input on it.

BTW the 706 is the radio I have.

[ElevenBravo]

Thats what, to the best of my memory, I understood too... that VHF was more of an issue, so I can only speculate on HF...

Let us know what your EM buddy thinks...
EB

[ElevenBravo]

I wish I had some trees to run my dipole up proper with... The ones I have (legal) access to are not of top choice, one end is in a tree limb (guy wire is anyway..), the other end at my roof's peak, which is of course not very high for a dipole.

EB

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

Damn I guess I missed the educational portion of our programming guide tonight. You guys are just way to smart for me. All I can give you for numbers is that mine is approx. 30' at the feed point and 10' on the ends at an inverted "V". I couldn't put it up horizontal. Try try again, can't wait till you get your windom up Bacpacker. Still, we must continue... we'll make it work. Great intell guys!

[bacpacker]

BW, an inverted V like you have works just fine. They dont have to be a flst top. Mine is gonna be an inverted V as well. Just running the Windom as opposed to a pure dipole. My feed point is at the 1/3-2/3 point instead of midway.

[ElevenBravo]

OCF Window I am guessing... I ran one a while back, it was a good tuner and worked good for me!

EB

[bacpacker]

Yeah Carolina Windom. A buddy of mine had one up for a while. He had good luck with it. His was flatter on top than mine will be, but only up about 25'. Also he lives on a decent hill top. He used his working digital a lot.

I talked to a guy I work with today who does some HF, mostly on 17m. He agreed the vert vs horz could cause some issues, especially at closer ranges. He has a antenna book from the ARRL and said he would see what it has to say.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

OK sounds good as long as the crickets don't start up again. But I think we're safe, cold weather is upon us. I guess it's just us three that will save the country and coordinate the revolution, HOO-YAH!

[ElevenBravo]

If all else fails... carrier pigeon!

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

Well all I got's Crows and Buzzards. Crows are lucky enough to be around because I do like to shoot them due to them eating my deer's corn. And that is my SHTF food staple, hell I'll have a hard enough time fighting off humans from them. Now try to teach a Crow or a Buzzard to fly round trip to Sleepy Hollow then I would be famous. I guess we should stick to the mission at hand. He, he....

[slowz1k]

Just read this entire thread.... All I understood was shooting crows.
I really Need to learn this HAM stuff.
Got a Wouxun KG-UV3D a few years back and I'm not even sure how to turn it on. Had grand ambitions of using it as an entry level hand held.... Oh well...The best laid plans....

[Sniper-T]

If all else fails... carrier pigeon!

Bang! Pigeon tastes like chicken!

...

Which taste like ca...

never mind, you know!

meow-wich!

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

Just read this entire thread.... All I understood was shooting crows.
I really Need to learn this HAM stuff.
Got a Wouxun KG-UV3D a few years back and I'm not even sure how to turn it on. Had grand ambitions of using it as an entry level hand held.... Oh well...The best laid plans....

I looked up your radio. You have a good radio and your "best laid plans" are good to go! You have the capabilities of doing many things my brother. You can monitor your LEOs and emergency services. You can even transmit and receive between 136-174MHz and 350-470MHz. The more expensive brands like Yaesu, Kenwood, ICom don't have those capabilities, they've been neutered by the FCC. They limit Transmission to 144-148MHz (2 meter)and 430-450MHz (70 centimeter bands). But this gives you a broad range of frequencies to choose from for a comm plan. Off the grid a little bit.........

You know you can get up to 60miles out of those little puppies with right antenna? I started off with a handheld Yaesu FT-60. I don't have like, a whole bunch of them now but. I have what I think I need. Been doin a lot of tinkerin.

[Sniper-T]

What about a Rino 130 by garmin, with a gmrs? useful??

[ElevenBravo]

ANYTHING is more useful than NO radio!!

I prefer frequencies that are not in common use... FRS and GMRS are the MOST common, since they are sold EVERYWHERE.

MURS is a different animal, hardly no one knows of it's exsistance so I pick it. Hope to have mobile to base comms via MURS as soon
as I can get another radio for base station.

As it is, I have 1 mobile and 4 HTs all setup with MURS, in addition to a multitude of 2M and other freqs.

EB

[Kesephist]

I have this http://www.arrl.org/graphical-frequency-allocations as a reference to frqs... can't find a prosaic simple numbers listing of frqs for Tech for my efforts. Still casting an scouring about for a mobile that won't burst my skinny ass wallet like a toy balloon. Dual bands in plenty, but in UHF/VHF pairs. No VHF/HF pairings. Would not doubt there are likely triband and even quad bands (guessing, but HF/VHF/low UHF/high UHF?) but I got one look at a triband and backed away top scalded-arse-cat speed.

Is it impolitic/just not done, General, to inquire what rig you were using for this quality of 40m phone performance?

[Kesephist]

General bein license level not military rank.

Said license level now mine as of 6/15/16. Wore those damned flashcards OUT.

Soon as I get something that will allow me to make good use of the 131.2' band...

[ElevenBravo]

TenTec 445, I think it is...

[Kesephist]

TenTec 445, I think it is...

544, maybe?

http://www.tentecwiki.org/doku.php?id=modelcodes (http://http://www.tentecwiki.org/doku.php?id=modelcodes)

544 was caled the Triton, until some oh-how-dreadful wanted to sue T-T over it. SO they went ahead and called it the "Model 544" and had done. Wonder if said OHD is suing the International Astronomical Union for naming of one of Neptune's moons Triton as well....

Anywho... interesting to see T-T is still running a wiki site even though they closed up shop. Few outfits out there these days with that much class.

Kesephist
KI7CIL, General-class

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

I have been running a TYT TH-9800 it's a quad band and it's been working great since October, I use the cross band repeater every week to connect three counties on simplex and have been working the below the 2m "allocated frequencies" $205 on Amazon Prime. Need to play with the 6 and 11 meter some more but I need a few players in order to do that. OH, and after frying the "MFJ" battery booster the thing works great without it! (this is the feedback I'm getting)

Now I also have the Yaesu FT-857 that has everything UHF/VHF/HF (pricey) but I can shoot the moon with that on HF, again if there are any players out there we need to link up on the net..................which I've been saying for years:rolleyes:

[Kesephist]

I have been running a TYT TH-9800 it's a quad band and it's been working great since October, I use the cross band repeater every week to connect three counties on simplex and have been working the below the 2m "allocated frequencies" $205 on Amazon Prime. Need to play with the 6 and 11 meter some more but I need a few players in order to do that. OH, and after frying the "MFJ" battery booster the thing works great without it! (this is the feedback I'm getting)

Now I also have the Yaesu FT-857 that has everything UHF/VHF/HF (pricey) but I can shoot the moon with that on HF, again if there are any players out there we need to link up on the net..................which I've been saying for years:rolleyes:

Still working on my man/bikepack rig using a RS HTX-10, a 1/2 wave dipole, and a deepcell marine battery. LMK when and where best.

Kesephist

KI7CIL, General-class

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

OK so I take you are up and running on 10M?

[ElevenBravo]

Yes, I stand corrected...

http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/735

Old radio, still runs awesome!!!

[Kesephist]

OK so I take you are up and running on 10M?

On Tuesdays and Wednesdays, for now. my days off.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

OK, who do I meet on what band, give me a PM and we'll work it out.....I'm hoping?

[Kesephist]

I'll be on 28.450 MHz USB Tuesdays and Wednesdays for the forseeable. 10am to 2PM PDT (1pm - 5pm EDT).

Still looking about for a 40m dipole, and when that is in hand, I'll appreciate knowing what mode and frq you all will be on. Time and days will stay the same.

If there are more available times in these two days, I would appreciate knowing them as well.

Kesephist
KI7CIL

[Kesephist]

Well, the follow up...

Ran Tuesday in the apt with the dipole set up in the livng room. No joy at all there.

Wednesday went outdoors to a local park to set up and the mast crashed, and spent the rest of the session trying to repair in 100 degrees.

Trying again next Tuesday and Wednesday, hopefully this time provisioned with a 10-40 meter screwdriver antenna.

Additional news: got a IC-735 from off of QRZ.com. LOTS of docs incl. both users and service manual. BIg a nd heavy, definitely a base radio.

[ElevenBravo]

I want another one of these:
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/hamhf/ts120s.html

I felt like a military radio operator tuning it up! HA HA! It just has that look & feel..


Kese, Think about a hamstick dipole.. They are not as efficient as a "real" antenna but... Ive had pretty good luck with mine! You can run it with a tuner, I have two 40m hamsticks, cant tune 20m too though of course, works best on 40m.

If you have a receiver hitch, you can have a fixture made at a weld shop for not a ton of money to slide your mast into, no need for guy wires.

A section of top rail for chain link fence works good for a mast. You can strap it all to the luggage rack for transport.

Of course, there is the option of running JUST a hamstick.. It will be "more or less" as efficient as a screwdriver, take my word for it. I set set the stinger on the hamstick all the way out where as normally you adjust the length for tune to your frequency. I then run my tuner (LDG Z-100) and let it tune it up.

You can attach a hamstick mount to your luggage rack, and to the base connect 4 radial wires and let them droop out (when you get to site), that would improve its efficiency a *LOT*.


I ran a 100w radio off one of these at the park, puts out JUST enough power:
https://www.amazon.com/PowerPro-56101-Starting-Portable-Generator/dp/B00J261PGQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1468632565&sr=8-2&keywords=generator


EB

[Kesephist]

Some money, there, with a pair of hamsticks per band.

it appears, though, that there may have been some errors here... by 'bike' i mean bicycle, not motorcycle. And using the bicycle as the mount isnt too far off... I had thoughts of getting adjustable kickstands mounted on each side to brace things to where the antenna woud be level.

[ElevenBravo]

Sorry, I missed bike.

40m hamstick dipole or 40m hamstick will tune 40m and down with an LDG Z-100. No need to buy multiple sticks. It wont however do 80m, it may do 10m. Ive only messed with 10m once.

EB

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

OK, just to let you two know I have been down for maint. Broke my Jetstream dual band antenna, put up a new Comet GP-15 tri-band. Took two attempts, first try it seems it wasn't high enough to clear power lines like the old antenna(16'9" tall) so I had to get another pole to extend it and raised it another 8 ft. So far it seems be be working a lot better, I was putting out but reception sucked. Today I took down the G5RV lite for cleaning and maint. more like sap and rust. So it's now back up and ready for testing. 80-6meters (so it says)...........now just waiting for the storms to clear a bit and I can hook it up and give it go. And away we go!

[bacpacker]

How'd you break your Jet Stream. Just curious, I have a dual bander and we used multiple units in the radio group. Never had any issues with them. Just would like to know what I need to be looking for.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

Guess I should take a few pictures and post them. First issue I had was 2yrs ago when I had water intrusion. The cap on the tip of the antenna was cracked, more like split wide open. So I took it apart and dried it out and cleaned it up. I replaced the cap with a new PVC one. No more problems till last week.

Did a test run on 20 and 40 meters today, 20 was not to shabby, Maine, Colorado, Minnesota, Louisiana, no east coast contacts to be heard. 40 had a lot of noise and local chat (accent). Tried 10 last night and heard some voices back in the noise but that was about it. There is a lot of mexican on 20m around 14.249. Used to find that on the low end of the 40 in the mornings as well as some Italian. Guess now that I have the other box running as well and the way shit being what it is I should be spinning the wheel and listening for chatter. Never know what's going to pop up.

[Kesephist]

Nothing on 7/19, still doing mast repair. Probably on 28.450 USB tomorrow 1300-1600 PDT

UPD: (Sigh) so much for probably. If I dont get any joy out of this mast, I will not have a great problem junking it in favor of the earlier mentioned fencing top rail, as I have the MFJ 347 fitting and lack only the elements.

[Kesephist]

Sked for 7/26 is scratched, as I have to wait around for UPS to deliver a package (ironically, of the aforementioned hamstick elements, 40, 20 and 6 meter pairs)

WILL be up 1100 PDT 7/27 to continue 10m operations at 28.450 MHz, USB. About 3pm I'll bring down that mast and reset for 6m with the Tytera rig, either roving thru 5x.whatever, or hovering around a set frequency (if anyone cares to drop one in my PM box before 0900 PDT 7/27, hint, hint)

de KI7CIL, "R.K"

Kesephist

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

OH BTW I was on till 1330 central on the 19th trying to call you on the 28.450. I did get an answer but it wasn't you! Forgot to post that............ADD and all. Won't be checking tonight due to operational commitments. :cool:

[Kesephist]

GRRRRRR ... gunnysacks, poltroons, $#!theels, ten thousand furies and serpents!

My cart decided to give up the ghost on me en route to my field site, and have just finished the delightful task of dragging 130 pounds of gear in 100+ deg heat back home. No sked today, and will be doing a build of a new cart off of a no-$#!t 2 wheeled shop dolly during the week.

[Kesephist]

ElevenBravo:40m hamstick dipole or 40m hamstick will tune 40m and down with an LDG Z-100. No need to buy multiple sticks. It wont however do 80m, it may do 10m. Ive only messed with 10m once.

Already done, in 40m, 20m and 6m. If I need 80, I'll get 80, not soon though.

I AM getting the much vaunted Z-100 Plus, being it is in the mail as we speak. Allegedly I could run this thing offa 8xAA batteries, or a set of alligator clips n one of my 18v drill packs.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

Soooo, what are you trying to run now? I've been running pretty hot on 20 and 40. VHF has been having a tuff time troposphere has been shit.

[Kesephist]

What I'd LIKE is to be able to get onsite, not have the mast I worked on fall to bits, and start up proper, and be able to have something that would reach out and contact someone. I now have an antenna setup that will get me on 40m, but the only f'ing radio I have that will do the job is a base, not a mobile, and would not hold up to the manpacking part.

SO i get to settle for 10m and 6m. Fine, fine... all FM. The whole prep premise was to get as much all-mode gear as possible, 'cuz there's no telling what the other poor schlub on the other end has. that's part of me being (deep breath) PREPARED.

I've not been as able on that front as I would like.

$fourdigit 'shack-in-a-box' rigs, or any more internet-dependent stuff are also things I am unable to do. (gimme a break, I work at Walmart)

HAM was gonna be pricy; this was known the day I got my Tech. I get it.

What I have so far:

RIG______|.7M|2M|6MSSB|6MFM|10MSSB|10MFM|20MSSB|20 MFM|40MSSB|40MFM||
TM-241___|___|XX|_____|____|______|_____|______|_____ |_______|_____||
HTX-10 __|___|__|_____|____|xxxxxx|xxxxx|______|_____|___ ____|_____||
TYT-9800 |xxx|xx|_____|xxxx|______|xxxxx|______|_____|_____ __|_____||
IC-735___|___|__|_____|____|xxxxxx|xxxxx|xxxxxx|xxxxx |xxxxxxx|xxxxx||


It doesn't show everything, just the ten bands I'm pretty sure of being most in use at this time by other preppers.

[ElevenBravo]

icom 706 "classic" would be on your short list, chech the used classifieds, i think qth classifides is the one i used a good bit.

on the hamsticks, i run the z100 to fine tune mine (dipole), and ive observed no difference in performance. over fine tuning the "stingrr".

as a matter of fact, i run my 40 hamstick dipole on 20 also, again, no real change in performance.

be it known, this setup is at best a compromise, it will never run as good as a 33 foot vertical... but, you will be on the air!!

EB

[bacpacker]

I have an original I Com 706. Good rig, the only thing missing is 70cM. The 706 G model even has that.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

Ever thought about running a wire out the window? Granted you might be in an Apt. But hey, if you got a balcony slip that mickey out the porch, or maybe a Buddy pole? Just a thought, there are some great urban antenna ideas out there just depends on your situation, you've got a stack of radios. What's you situation, windows only, what's it look like what floor are you, give us some logistics and maybe we can make you a stealth base set up, eh?

[Kesephist]

2 story apt complexes. Bottom floor. Have run the 10m dipole... indoors...yuck. The one position I Do have some stealth capability on is on the edge of the property, right by the R.O.W. of the complex's electrical service. Haven't tried it out, yet...

Got the LDG tuner, now all I need is a meter of M/M equipped 8X and a 9v battery in order to use it.

Update: M/M cable in the mails for the Aug. 9/10 skeds.