Thermal imaging

[Sniper-T]

I'm sure a few of you guys have played with em... how can you beat them? the old rub down with mud like Arnie in the original predator?

What about those space blankets, you know, the ones that are made out of tin foil? Would that work?

[helomech]

A good set of thermal, I don't believe you can hide from it. The only thermal I have dealt with is the one that hangs on the front of the Apache attack helicopter, and there is no hiding from that one. Unless you are inside.

[Sniper-T]

Helo, if I make the trip, would you take me for a ride in one of those?

let me fire the guns?

[ak474u]

I am not sure you can hide from the ultra high end thermal imaging gear, BUT... I can tell you, radiant barrier foil (think industrial grade space blanket) can obscure you from the $16000 camera is used inspecting insulation. I never got a chance to experiment outside of work, but if you were to make a tent or barrier out of it, you could obscure a heat signature. If you were covering a generator, or something with a plume of hot exhaust, it would give you away.

[helomech]

Helo, if I make the trip, would you take me for a ride in one of those?

let me fire the guns?

I wish, I don't work on them any more, and they stopped letting us fly when they went to the fly by wire controls.

- - - Updated - - -


I am not sure you can hide from the ultra high end thermal imaging gear, BUT... I can tell you, radiant barrier foil (think industrial grade space blanket) can obscure you from the $16000 camera is used inspecting insulation. I never got a chance to experiment outside of work, but if you were to make a tent or barrier out of it, you could obscure a heat signature. If you were covering a generator, or something with a plume of hot exhaust, it would give you away.

It would hide you, but the blanket would still be visible to the thermal. The blanket will have a different heat signature than the surrounding area. The blanket would stand out like a sore thumb.

[Stormfeather]

One thing I always wondered, how deep does thermal penetrate under water? I know if you are on the top of the water, you show up on thermal, but if you dove underneath the water, I wonder how well it could detect you? How deep would you have to be? Would someone with just a snorkel and mask be good to go? Anyone?

[jamesneuen]

i know that all the thermal imaging we use for fire fighting will not work on anything reflective. that's why space blankets work. they reflect the imaging to the surrounding area. never tried it on water. usually if there's water there's no fire. lol

[greg48]

Sniper T, a few years back we were doing some training with our TOW II systems, we had some blankets, they were OD green, lined with tin foil, they were pretty good well made blankets. I had a couple guys wrap up in those blankets, actually it took 2 to cover head to toe, front to back, making sure every thing covered, thru the thermal sights on our TOW system all could be seen was a heat signature where the eyes are. True story. I still have one of those blankets in my packed ready to go ruck sack. I think if a person put on heavy goggles like welders use there would be NO heat signature. Now the new ITAS System on the TOW systems I have no idea about. I would say for most of the rifles out there with thermal sights, your heat signature wouldn't be visible. But like HELO says, those Apaches can see thru about anything. I am guessing the thermals on an M1 are similar. I retired in '09, technology keeps growing so fast, it's amazing.

[ak474u]

Sniper T, a few years back we were doing some training with our TOW II systems, we had some blankets, they were OD green, lined with tin foil, they were pretty good well made blankets. I had a couple guys wrap up in those blankets, actually it took 2 to cover head to toe, front to back, making sure every thing covered, thru the thermal sights on our TOW system all could be seen was a heat signature where the eyes are. True story. I still have one of those blankets in my packed ready to go ruck sack. I think if a person put on heavy goggles like welders use there would be NO heat signature. Now the new ITAS System on the TOW systems I have no idea about. I would say for most of the rifles out there with thermal sights, your heat signature wouldn't be visible. But like HELO says, those Apaches can see thru about anything. I am guessing the thermals on an M1 are similar. I retired in '09, technology keeps growing so fast, it's amazing.

I did a radiant barrier install on the house of an engineer at L3, he swore that they had the technology to see what you do in your house from SPACE. Not sure if he overstated that, but I wouldn't be terribly surprised.

[helomech]

One thing I always wondered, how deep does thermal penetrate under water? I know if you are on the top of the water, you show up on thermal, but if you dove underneath the water, I wonder how well it could detect you? How deep would you have to be? Would someone with just a snorkel and mask be good to go? Anyone?

I would imagine with a snorkel you would still be seen. The SAR helos use thermal.

[Vodin]

ak474u, do you remember the pressure caner bombers? The last one hid under a tarp and in the cabin of a boat that wasn't even in the water. Yet the camera they were using showed where he was, what position he was in and the blood spurting as he was shoot. Granted it was within 100ft but still I would assume it would be the same tech on the satellite.

[cwconnertx]

One thing I always wondered, how deep does thermal penetrate under water? I know if you are on the top of the water, you show up on thermal, but if you dove underneath the water, I wonder how well it could detect you? How deep would you have to be? Would someone with just a snorkel and mask be good to go? Anyone?

You would only see the temperature of the water, the same as if you are behind glass, only the temperature of the glass would be recorded, thermal gear cannot see through glass. for this reason, you can't use a magnifier in front of it like night vision. all you would get is the temperature of the lens.

SO, you cannot drive your car with a thermal monocular if you have a windshield!

But they make nice units that mount in the grill of the car and display units that go inside the vehicle if you have the money

[cwconnertx]

I did a radiant barrier install on the house of an engineer at L3, he swore that they had the technology to see what you do in your house from SPACE. Not sure if he overstated that, but I wouldn't be terribly surprised.

No, they don't. But that's ok because they just the information off your teenage daughter's facebook posts.

The limit with thermal is that it picks up the heat signature of the first object that is line of sight. So from space they would see the temperature of your roof.

There are other wavelengths that penetrate, but you have to have a reflected signal to read it, and the power requirements exceed what would typically be available on a satellite, so they would need to drive a van past your house to scan, or at least fly a large plane pretty close.

[Vodin]

Stormfeather, if you were snorkeling under the water they could see your breath coming out of the snorkel, it would be warmer than the water.. Distance is the only unknown.

[greg48]

Geospatial analysis, yes they can see into your house. I know someone very closely related to me, this is her domain.

[helomech]

Geospatial analysis, yes they can see into your house. I know someone very closely related to me, this is her domain.

What type of optics are they using to see through a roof? Sure isn't thermal!

[cwconnertx]

Geospatial analysis, yes they can see into your house. I know someone very closely related to me, this is her domain.

I am not saying it can't be done, just not from a satellite, the power requirements are large for the tech that can scan through walls. Without any specific information to the contrary, and with the knowledge of physics I have, I am going to say it can't be done from a satellite.

Geospatial analysis is not a technology, its a term to describe analysis techniques.

There is so much that can be done, for instance, with new smart meters and the network links, one can analyze your water flow and electricity/natural gas usage and probably know someone is in the shower. Of course the internet usage and cable boxes can say when someone is watching tv or internet.

Bottom line, there is some technology out there, but it isn't to look through your roof from space. No need for that in many cases, there are easier ways that don't stretch the laws of physics.

[Sniper-T]

They could tell that someone was using water, but could only surmise that you were in the shower. Running the dishwasher or washing machine or even washing your car could also be the culprits. Same as the cable box, just because the tv is on, doesn't mean you are watching it. It may be on a timer to give the illusion that someone is home.