Line Gear. Discussing the concept and application

[mitunnelrat]

As I stated in another thread, there is a website that was my first introduction to line gear.
Line Gear (http://www.everycitizenasoldier.org/id12.html)

Its definitely not an area I'm well versed in, but the basic idea follows the old country proverb of not plaicing all of your eggs in one basket, and each level expands up on the last.

First line for me (as I'm developing it now) is a minimum of kit that is an expansion and reorganization of the items I EDC on an ATS warbelt. It would be quite easy to use a standard trouser belt to achieve the same end, but I figured I'd probably forget to remove the suspenders needed to support the weight - and look like a total geek. ;) Nah! I know I look like a geek already, so that wouldn't bother me! Reality is I like the idea of have a single assembled unit I can easily don and doff as its needed.

Second line is your main fighting rig. It serves to support your primary weapon. Mine is currently an FLC with 3x double magazine pouches across my chest from left to right, and a similarly sized trauma kit pouch on the far right. I saw some information somewhere discussing a reasoned layout to a 2nd line system. It puts your ammo and such on your off hand side for easy access and reloads, and put support items - like trauma kits - on your strong side. It made sense and is something I thought worty of consdieration and passing along to anyone learning to set their gear up. As always, test and train to find what works for you. And again, don't take my word for anything on this topic! I am but an egg...

Third line is your sustainment equipment. In my case, my BOB, though I'm set up to run an abbreviated version as the situation dictates.

Finally, I've seen a signature line on another forum that fully applies to this topic, and sums up all I've said here:

Survive from your pockets, fight from your vest, live from your pack.

So yeah... I was mechanized during my enlistment, which makes this a foreign concept to me. If I wanted something I just pulled it from one of the supplemental bags I'd thrown in my trailer or crammed into my vehicle. I'll take all the advice/ input I can get on this subject.

[LUNCHBOX]

You should always set up your rig to be comfortable and functional. I base this on a right hand strong side for me... AR mag pouches left front, pistol mags right front, right side secondary weapon by dropleg or strike mount, trauma kit left rear, gp pouch right rear with survival items, bladder carrier in the back-bladder transferable. Pack fully stocked with a few extra mags. Some goodies scattered throughout your person. I could go on and on but this is my plan.

[mitunnelrat]

Thanks LUNCHBOX! You said what I was trying to impart much more succinctly and clearly... If I can get some further input though, I have a sneaking suspicion that I may know why you specified your water bladder is transferable. Am I safe in assuming its because there's no comfortable way to leave it in the chest harness once you shoulder a pack?

[Fatty]

I have my system set so I can undue it from the back of my Lbv and transfer it either onto or inside my pack. If you like thesounds of that, either get a pack that is camelback compatible (comes with extra compartment to hold it and has openings for the nozzle to go through. Or make the openings yourself if you already have your bag acquired. Versatility is the universal language amongst gear queers:)

[The Stig]

I'm not really sure how to organize this into specific lines although I understand the concept.

I guess it depends on the nature of the SHTF event.

Should be it post hurricane and I just want to be armed I'd go with my edc setup: Glock 23 in RCS Phantom IWB, Liger gunbelt, surefire LED light, pocketknife dejour

I can add any number of man-bag/murse setups to augment this.

Should it be post hurricane with active looting, or general civil unrest "somewhere in the area" I'd go with:
* EDC Arrangement
* BCM-03 MSF Harness for AR mags, IFAK
* Any number of man-bag/murse setups as needed

Should it be post hurricane looting, civil unrest in my specific area:
* ATS Warbelt with G23 in Safariland ALS holster, Marz combat medic 3 mag shingle/med kit, small Maxpedition pouch for rifle lube/cleaning patches, Tactical Tailor Glock mag pouches, TT utility pouch for white smoke grenade
* BCM03 harness
* Any number of man-bags/murses as needed


Should it be all out, American has melted down, Max-Max, I'm holding out for Captain DeMetrie:

* ATS War Belt
* BCM harness
* Maxpedition Condor II "fighting bag" with change of clothes, ammo, additional smoke grenade, additional med supplies, etc
* ACH Helmet with ESS goggles


I've recently added a set of plates to my armory. I'm waiting for the Blue Force Gear LMAC to be released in tan so I can begin to tinker with my first plate carrier rig. Once it's figured out it will replace the BCM harness in the total MadMax scenario.

[LUNCHBOX]

Thanks LUNCHBOX! You said what I was trying to impart much more succinctly and clearly... If I can get some further input though, I have a sneaking suspicion that I may know why you specified your water bladder is transferable. Am I safe in assuming its because there's no comfortable way to leave it in the chest harness once you shoulder a pack?

Yeah, not comfortable with a pack and you will probably bust it also. You could run a compatible pack or pick up one of numerous different camelbaks out there. I run a Blackhawk Raptor as my EDC, its bladder compatible. I noticed in your field exercises that you brought everything but the kids (lol)-if you want to add a water bladder to that let me know....I turn bladder carriers away all the time, ACU but could be dusted to change the color.

[LUNCHBOX]

Thanks LUNCHBOX! You said what I was trying to impart much more succinctly and clearly... If I can get some further input though, I have a sneaking suspicion that I may know why you specified your water bladder is transferable. Am I safe in assuming its because there's no comfortable way to leave it in the chest harness once you shoulder a pack?

Yeah, not comfortable with a pack and you will probably bust it also. You could run a compatible pack or pick up one of numerous different camelbaks out there. I run a Blackhawk Raptor as my EDC, its bladder compatible. I noticed in your field exercises that you brought everything but the kids (lol)-if you want to add a water bladder to that let me know....I turn bladder carriers away all the time, ACU but could be dusted to change the color.

[mitunnelrat]

Hey! It wouldn't be like that if I didn't have to carry so much redundant garbage to test and review! Or at least that's what I tell myself! lol...

But yeah, I really am still just a babe in the woods, and working on reducing size and weight as I go. Good thing I don't have a Kifaru EMR or something, right? At least I can now honestly say I'm a year round camper and not an armchair commando. Its definitely a learning process though, and there's a reason I have a line or two of me bitching about how difficult the hike in was. ;) I did get a bit more experience in effective packing this week, so that should reflect well on my next mock BO as well. More effectively using a line system should help with weight distribution as well.

By the way, I had my suspicions due to limited experience in mock ups at home. I had rigged my (empty) Ambush to my FLC, and it was definitely not workable with my other packs, so a carrier would be awesome! Thanks for the offer.

[LUNCHBOX]

Tunnelrat, pm inbound.

[apssbc]

When I carry my gear I have gone as light weight as possible. On my person I have very basic shelter needs and some high energy foods and fire starters. I can survive off just my clothes.

I carry a small LBV with Med kit, 2 Pistol mags, 6 mags for my M1A, a combat knife, Canteen with cup (the canteen cover carries water purification tabs and a fire starter), I also have a compass and pace counter. I replaced my chest rig so I can keep my chest and abd open and as slim as possible. Snipers do not keep their chests stacked with mags because because its hard to crawl in the dirt without being seen with a bunch of shit on your chest. I crawled hundreds of yards with my chest rig and ended up bringing many plants, sticks, and other garbage with me. I was not able to keep quiet or make proper use of micro terrain due to my chest being held in the air. Now I am silent and very stealthy.

My pack carries extra ammo and all my other gucci gear I can easily live without. It has a grab and go bag attached with a more complete survival kit so I can grab it in a hurry without going through my pack. In the end I can be comfortable with the clothes on my back and my battle belt and still survive. Minimalism works very well.

[izzyscout21]

I became accustomed to carrying so much extra crap (thank you Army), I had to go back and slim my gear down. WHile most would still find it heavy, those of us accustomed to carrying a fighting load all the time would find it rather light.

[The Stig]

I became accustomed to carrying so much extra crap (thank you Army), I had to go back and slim my gear down. WHile most would still find it heavy, those of us accustomed to carrying a fighting load all the time would find it rather light.

Although I've never experienced the joys of Big Army that many of you have I do suffer from an affliction know as Gear Wore Syndrome. As such my natural instinct and default setting is to load everything up with....well.....every little gadget and gizmo known to man.

Over the past three years, however, and correlating directly to when I started doing training classes on a regular basis, I quickly realized that in nearly all cases lighter is better. Whether it's the AR platform or a chest harness, have enough gear to accomplish the "mission" and nothing else.

Given that I'm a doughy civilian my mission is substantially easier than the warriors going into harms way, but I have been on a rampage lately to streamline and simplify.

[austinrob]

streamlining...

I was a scout leader for a few years, and am a gear/gadget whore as well. I love backpacking, but found my packs were 60-70lb with all the shit that I just thought I HAD to have. One of the older scouters one night was talking about through-hiking the AT one summer. I asked him how he slimmed down his gear (aside from lightweight gear). His advice was to keep track of what I used on my trips. If I used it twice or more, leave it as it is. If I used it once, figure out something else that I used only once that I could combine with creating a multi-use item. (that I would use twice) If I didn't use it at all, seriously re-evaluate it's "need" to be in the pack. His idea was that everything should have more than once use, preferably 3.

Backpacking and loadout for a GHB or a BOB are different concepts. But streamlining concepts can be applied both places.

[bacpacker]

Rob the idea of taking a close look at backpacking gear is exactly what I've done over the years. In my 20's at timies I would have 70-80lbs of stuff. Just paring that back a little kicked my mileage up considerably. Really taking a hard look at things and planning for multi use items mad it possible for me to get below 50lbs, without using any really light weight (expensive) gear. I have went to a light sleeping bad that's good to zero, it's a 2 lb Marmont. I'm also looking closely at a Big Agnus tent. The one I'm looking at comes in right at 3 lb's
I'm not sure what a full load out would be yet, with ammo and firearms I'm guessing 50-60 lbs.

[mitunnelrat]

I'm well along that streamlining path myself now. 1st line got knocked down to 2 pistol mags, 2 rifle mags, and a dump pouch on the left. My compass, large fixed blade, multitool, and a one quart canteen on the right. I'm returning to a drop leg holster, so much of the right side is being left clear, and I slicked up the back of the belt. If keeping my comms on my versipack interferes with shouldering my BOB though, it'll end up on the 1st line as well, but I'll have to wait and see on that. The only other thing I might do is look at some sort of flat pocket for a protractor (if I can find MGRS maps) and map of the area I'm traversing.

I was going to put comms on my second line, but after thinking about it decided to keep it as it is now, six AR mags in 3 pouches, the BOK with CAT holder attached, and a hydration carrier on the rear. I got a little creative using the QD's from my blown pack to attach the carrier to the FLC. You can see them above the pouches.
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn165/mitunnelrat/009-3.jpg

Third line is now a work in progress. The versipack is part of it, and it has everything I'll need for a short duration. I consider it an EDC/ E&E bag, depending on my total gear configuration, but when it comes down to it, I've really assembled a full BOB in a fairly small package. The full pack could just as accurately be called an INCH bag. Its primary emphasis is going to be food, then sanitation/ hygiene. Most everything else is pretty well accounted for in the versipack or on my 1st and 2nd lines, and water is readily available around me. Filters/ purifiers for that don't take up too much space or weight. Neither does my 6'x8' tarp for a sturdier shelter than my versipack provides. The ultimate goal now is a Kifaru Paratipi and parastove combo. ParaTipi (http://kifaru.net/paratipi.html) With the stove its not much heavier than the Eureka Solitaire I have now, will pack smaller and lighter than my USGI MSS, but provides the room and the warmth to move around while also drying clothing and gear.

[bacpacker]

The paratipi's are sweet. Have you used one before? I've looked at them on line and love the design, but have no experience with them.

[mitunnelrat]

No, I wish! I've only read a ton of reviews on them, and its the specs that tell me I'd come in lighter and smaller than I can with my Solitaire and MSS.

[The Stig]

streamlining...

I was a scout leader for a few years, and am a gear/gadget whore as well. I love backpacking, but found my packs were 60-70lb with all the shit that I just thought I HAD to have. One of the older scouters one night was talking about through-hiking the AT one summer. I asked him how he slimmed down his gear (aside from lightweight gear). His advice was to keep track of what I used on my trips. If I used it twice or more, leave it as it is. If I used it once, figure out something else that I used only once that I could combine with creating a multi-use item. (that I would use twice) If I didn't use it at all, seriously re-evaluate it's "need" to be in the pack. His idea was that everything should have more than once use, preferably 3.

Backpacking and loadout for a GHB or a BOB are different concepts. But streamlining concepts can be applied both places.

Excellent advice for many aspects of prepping really.

[mitunnelrat]

I had an "doh!" moment last night. I've discussed it before, but I'm finally working to take a page out of Jerry D Young's books. I was using my old duffel bag as something of a soft gear locker, but now think it'll be better utilized as an expansion to my 3rd line gear, much like it was when I was on active duty. So far I have my ccf pad and MSS in it.

I already have a game cart, which will work well outside the snowy season. I'll be looking at sleds soon to cover that as well. I'd just buy a ski pulk, but I haven't seen one MOLLE compatible yet, so I'm just going to buy components and build my own to work like that. I'll run it off my battle belt. I'm thinking I'll even be able to rig a quick release of some sort on it just in case I need to drop it. I may try to come up with something other than my game cart for the same reason.

Something I already like is the duffel will take the MSS without it being fully compressed, and there's still room for some other items. I'm hoping that will help keep some loft in the MSS bags. I'm still working out a contents list, but I know once I compress the MSS it will take a lot. Maybe I could even pack for camping again ;)

[apssbc]

Excellent work MTR. I have a bag for extra items, however I keep most everything in my pack and my 1st and 2nd line gear.

Now that its winter I can drop my jet sled from my garage throw my pack and various other extra items into it. Inside the sled in storage are my snow shoes and my harness for the sled. All I have to do is strap up and start walking. I can also use my sled for a casualty if need be.

[mitunnelrat]

I don't know if "excellent" fits yet, but thank you. :D

For the most part I think the duffel will end up as part of my car kit, the sled/ cart will be a back up if I have to walk. Considering some of the distances I'm looking at now, this is pretty much vital.