Organizing into groups

[jamesneuen]

So I have heard the pro's and con's of organizing into groups and trying to stay in very small groups on their own. I have read ST's "The Group" and loved it. Cheesy as it sounds I have picked up a few gems from Walking Dead, The Road, Firefly, Jericho, The Colony and Defiance. I believe that while starting out on a small community of like minded individuals there should always be a set precedence in place for allowing people into a group to expand on their skills and resources. Anyone who argues that they could survive indefinitely on their own is a fool in my opinion but to each their own.

So I pose this to the fine group of like minded individuals out there,

1. How would you decide to allow people into your group? (ability to sustain them, needed skills, reproduction/gene pool, or simple companionship if a single person)

2. What would your "initiation" be? (questions, proof of values/skills,)

3. How long would it be before you trusted them or truly relied on them without graft or leverage of some kind?

4. What other concerns would you have?

[Sniper-T]

I'll think about this for a bit... but I think that my views came out pretty clear in my book... and when I have time to finish Part 3; will be concise.

Thanks for reading, James; feedback is more than welcome. especially mistakes! I've cleaned up a few inconsistencies since I posted, and added little bits here and there for clarity, as suggested. The more eyes the better!

btw, great topic!

[jamesneuen]

I've loved reading it. I can't wait for more but I really think people will try to hold onto conventional morals much longer and it will kill them. I think that what you have described in the story though as a little unrealistic as far as how conveniently a few of the groups of people that help each other goes.



But i still love your sorry and I ask these questions because of how people have responded when i broach the subject of prepping. Many regard me as an idiot or extreme. For that reason alone I see finding a large group of like minded people will be difficult. Charity will not be one of my strong points I'm afraid when it comes to allowing people in.

[Sniper-T]

Keep in mind, that this particular group of people were set, by design, to be of less than normal set of values...
about the meetings, please pm me with your thoughts... I want to hear it!

[realist]

Okay so who would be in the group? Well since these people would be in a position to cover my six I would want to make sure I could trust them. I need to be able to trust them with my family if I were a way. So I would have to know this person well. Obviously first off would be family, then close friends. So how do others fit in? Well I have made contact with a bunch of different people over time and most don't fit the bill. There are about six or seven who I am looking at and this had been over the past two years. The big problem is working things into everyones schedules. Not all these people know each other. What would be the initiation - trust would be the final thing. These people who I know have all the skills which we would need in an emergency.

[yokel]

groups are a no-no area for me, how can you trust anyone either now or post SHTF? finding like minded people in my area is a non starter, so my group will be me +1 .

[Sniper-T]

For most of us groups are a necessary evil. As much as I'd like to say that it would be me and the MRS. against the world, that is not a likely survival scenario, as we would both need to sleep, and work to sustain. It is tough enough now maintaining the household, gardens, collecting and gathering, and that is with current conveniences like the quad and trailer. If I had to haul water by hand to service all of my garden plots, it would become an all day affair at least a couple times a week.

It's quick and easy now to throw a nutricious meal on the table, but cooking over a fire, not so quick, then heating water for dishes, washing, etc; will all take exponentially more time than currently. Granted, if SHTF I wouldn't be going to work every day, but little things now that take very little time will be drawn out much longer. ie. I can whip up a garden box in a few minutes with my table saw and cordless drill, but handsaws and screwdrivers or hammer and nails, all take longer.

So what does all this mean? Unless I want to be busting my butt all day to maintain the homestead, while also on guard duty, and then stay up all night on guard duty... I don't have much choice but to have additional people to help share the work.

So, it is easy to say 'friends and family' But my nearest close family(on my side) is 1500 km away; and while I do have some distant cousins and stuff nearer, I have no contact with them. (my choice). Friends? I have a solid few who would come together if the situation dictated it, but a bunch of others who quite honestly would not be welcome. Sure they're fine now for watching the fights, or having a beer, but their skill set ends with their ability to process food into waste.

So, there comes the tough question... walk ups, either acquaintences or strangers... Who to accept, and when to trust...

That's a toughie, I'd like to think I have a pretty good read of people and would rely heavily on that to start, but then their actions and usefulness would determine whether they stand guard duty alone, or with someone trusted, and whether or not they would even be given or allowed to have a gun.

[Domeguy]

I have agree that my thoughts running almost parallel with Mr. S here. Right now, while things are calm, I would like to think it's just me and the Mrs. But I know if things fall apart over night, we wouldn't make it too far alone. I seemed to be born with the ability to fix things mechanically, and to be able to look at something, and see what's wrong, and how to fix it. But that went out the door when they started putting computer chips in everything. But hopefully, although that isn't the best word to use, if things fall apart, computerized things won't work, and it will go back to gears and pulleys again, and then I may have a useable skill again. My wife is a nurse, just about the best skill to have in a SHTF scenario.

[Stormfeather]

1. How would you decide to allow people into your group? (ability to sustain them, needed skills, reproduction/gene pool, or simple companionship if a single person)

We pretty much decicded as a gorup ourselves to form and start working on a plan. As for allowing other folks in, that will probably be on a case by case basis, with a majority vote of all members of our group. Those in the minority must be able to verbalize why they wouldnt want the person in the group, and it would be taken into consideration. As for skills, it would have to be mechanical and medical, we are pretty plus'ed up in all other areas.

2. What would your "initiation" be? (questions, proof of values/skills,)

Must be able to prove they bring something to the table that we cannot provide ourselves, either thru experience or skills set. If its something we can learn ourselves, we probably wont bother talking to you. If they do pass, then pretty much its going to take that person performing extraordinarily for us to trust them. All of us guys (and one of the gals) have deployed together, and have patrolled the mean streets from Baghdad to Kabul and a few points in between. It takes a hell of a lot to get thru to that mindset, so you best be good at what you do.

3. How long would it be before you trusted them or truly relied on them without graft or leverage of some kind?

Never.

4. What other concerns would you have?

Our group of friends are pretty tight, and close knit, if something doesnt pass the smell test, we are going to say something, and the wives are the first ones to speak up usually. They arent catty like typical females, which is really nice, and they actually value the other ladies opinions.

[ladyhk13]

groups are a no-no area for me, how can you trust anyone either now or post SHTF? finding like minded people in my area is a non starter, so my group will be me +1 .

I don't blame you living over there. Maybe you could find some Americans who would have a closer mindset to yours?

[ladyhk13]

For most of us groups are a necessary evil. As much as I'd like to say that it would be me and the MRS. against the world, that is not a likely survival scenario, as we would both need to sleep, and work to sustain. It is tough enough now maintaining the household, gardens, collecting and gathering, and that is with current conveniences like the quad and trailer. If I had to haul water by hand to service all of my garden plots, it would become an all day affair at least a couple times a week.

It's quick and easy now to throw a nutricious meal on the table, but cooking over a fire, not so quick, then heating water for dishes, washing, etc; will all take exponentially more time than currently. Granted, if SHTF I wouldn't be going to work every day, but little things now that take very little time will be drawn out much longer. ie. I can whip up a garden box in a few minutes with my table saw and cordless drill, but handsaws and screwdrivers or hammer and nails, all take longer.

So what does all this mean? Unless I want to be busting my butt all day to maintain the homestead, while also on guard duty, and then stay up all night on guard duty... I don't have much choice but to have additional people to help share the work.

So, it is easy to say 'friends and family' But my nearest close family(on my side) is 1500 km away; and while I do have some distant cousins and stuff nearer, I have no contact with them. (my choice). Friends? I have a solid few who would come together if the situation dictated it, but a bunch of others who quite honestly would not be welcome. Sure they're fine now for watching the fights, or having a beer, but their skill set ends with their ability to process food into waste.

So, there comes the tough question... walk ups, either acquaintences or strangers... Who to accept, and when to trust...

That's a toughie, I'd like to think I have a pretty good read of people and would rely heavily on that to start, but then their actions and usefulness would determine whether they stand guard duty alone, or with someone trusted, and whether or not they would even be given or allowed to have a gun.

Just remember ya'll are always welcome in the Tn group if you need to move on from where you are.

[Caveman Survival]

I know right from the start that I wouldn't, strike that, couldn't be me and the mrs against the world. She doesn't have the fortitude to do the things that need to be done. The down and dirty things. But as a part of a group, she'd be a valuable asset. Her obsessive nature would allow her to organize and keep on top of everything that needs to be done, giving way for the select few in our circle to carry out those tasks.

I have a small knit group, 5 or so, that I can trust to come together in serious times of need. A couple are serious, and the others are weekend warriors. For the most part we are the only ones that we would be able to rely on. As for walk ups, strangers, and newer acquaintances, there probably wouldn't be too much wiggle room in bringing them aboard. My group has discussed this ad nauseum, and the general consensus is that we would have associates to trade and barter with (labour, skills, craft, etc) in a mutually beneficial manner, but unless you've been in the shit together, you can never really know another person (no offence to those with military backgrounds... Not being military myself I do not mean to misrepresent myself in the manner of being. I speak more of underground, nefarious experience).

Having MAGs of MAGS however might not be out of the question...over time (mutual assistance groups of mutual assistance groups), but until that time comes, everyone else is at an arms length at best

[ElevenBravo]

Groups... well, I like sleep.. a lot, and I cant pull security 24X7 all by my damn self so yeah, Id like to be around a few extra trigger slappers and hard headed Constitutionalists. :cool:

My standards are pretty low... either have military background, or be willing to come up to standards PDQ. Not necessary to bring a new skill, but at least have something to bring to the table.

The more the better, but with a cap.... too many people and you loose C&C (unless they are all self disciplined). Cant be lazy and dont be a mouse. Be willing to follow orders, and to give orders. Dont let the pop of a round over your head freeze you up, move toward the battle with aggression... but not without any care to self preservation. Be ready to retreat and run like hell, its usually better to fight another day rather than die hard headed and outnumbered. Be ready to study the guerrilla tactics book from front to back... toe to toe fighting like a "real unit" does requires resources we dont have (medevac, support, supplies, logistics, intel, etc. etc... etc....).

Have some gear, esp snivel gear. I dont want to be on watch with someone moaning about the cold & wet all night.

Bring an AK, plenty of mags and ammo.. and something to carry the mags in.

Bring some radios, shoot move and communicate dont work too good without the communicate part.

If your not shooting, moving or communicating... you should be taking cover and reloading. Or running like hell.

Be willing to be a good student, and a good teacher.

Check your ego at your duffel bag. Real world SHTF aint got room for Rambo.

The list is, endless.

[Sniper-T]

Great breakdown EB!

I especially like the references to "take and give" orders. Even if someone's skillset is tanning hides and making clothing, they should be able to instruct others to do so. The only place for a mouse is as cat-bait!

A problem I do have is in the communication. so many models, so many frequencies... Not everyone can possibly have a setup to match yours!

You suggest a 'cap' on numbers... do you have a set figure in mind? What if you're at that cap, and a military medic shows up? do you extend it? What about a dentist, or a surgeon, or a jack of all trades handyman... with their spouce and three kids in tow?

??

[ElevenBravo]

Coms, IMHO MURS is the shit. VHF travels a lot better in wooded terrain. Plus its not near as common as GMRS or FRS, so all the punk ass wanna be "preppers" that have a $30 pair of 50 mile radios from Wally wont be on your freq.

Some inexpensive offerings can be had on ebay. In addition the VX-170 and IC-V8 can be modded to cover MURS.

Being in anticipation I may need more people and a group have some kind of comms, I buy a radio every year so I have some hand outs. Id need a few, dont have the number nailed down, but since my group is only 3 and a dog right now, 3 radios is plenty.

Cap on number... good question. Follow your gut and take it a member at a time. Im pretty sure you will wake up one day and realize when your cap is met. If you only have food for 40, why expand to 60... unless they can make contributions to make up the difference (farming, hunting, etc..).

Also once a number gets too big, its hard to hide. Its easier for a 6 man LURP team to hide than a battalion sized element.

EB

[Sniper-T]

...but since my group is only 3 and a dog right now, 3 radios is plenty...
EB

sounds like you're neglecting your daughter! assuming of course the third talkie is with the hound...

lol

[ElevenBravo]

Me Wife Daughter Dog, dog doesnt get comms.

[Sniper-T]

he may as well be a cat... aka food...
;)

[Alas Babylon]

With just me, the wife, and a young son, I know we could not do it alone. We live in a rural area (rapidly becoming developed ), have 6 acres and are already running a decent garden and fruit trees, chickens, and a fish pond. No way to keep it secure or funtional on our own. Even the neighbors on the next door piece of land worry me, considering they already treespass to poach deer in my back woods.

We have invited a some select folks to join up. Lots of room in the house, plus the barn and other structures that could quickly be made into accomodations. The invited are close friends and some family. They are all people we feel we can trust. My best friend since childhood and his wife, both are doctors, niece and her fiance- a surgical Physicial assistant and dentist, A good long term friend from work whos wife knows farming and hes really good with fix it stuff, and a buddy whos a LEO, with a few of his closest friends, Sister in law and her 2 kids, plus my good neighbor across the road. If they all make it, we should be set.
The problem will be other friends that know I grow food, or suspect I am prepared, that will shown up to the gate wanting to come in and join. Time to put on the heartless act if I can and turn them away. I have told some folks its like a lifeboat, and theres only enough food and water for some of us, not all of us, so the need to get their own lifeboat.

[ladyhk13]

As I read these posts I notice most all are what you are looking for qualities that are for the men and jobs you expect men to have to contribute but no one has addressed the females. I'm wondering what your expectations are for the females in the group? Just courious to see what the guys view on this is.

[Sniper-T]

The same as any man. work, defend, participate. Gender is irrelevant when there is work to be done.

IMO.

[mitunnelrat]

Somebody has to make the sammiches :D

Ok, I kid. They have to babysit too.

Oh boy...

In reality I don't see much difference in men and women. Its still dependent on individual qualities and skills. Medical skills (nursing) seems to be more common with women than men. Likewise home econimics/ domestic skills. Skilled trades? Not so much. Find the gaps in your group, recognize men and women commonly develop different skill sets, and fill in as needed.

I like to say "producers, not consumers." That criteria is sexless.

[jamesneuen]

Consuming is fine so long as your production is greater than consumption!!

- - - Updated - - -

And at LadyHK, I never specify who does what. I know some women who are far better at weapons than a lot of men I have met. I learned how to shoe horses from a lady who owned her own mobile farrier shop.

[ElevenBravo]

Bad man go down with leaky hole, does not ask the gender of the trigger operator. (Or the make & model of the weapon, or the caliber, or if it was tacticooled out, etc..)

[robsdak]

women? women are nice. we need women. lot o things women can do, the same things i am going to be doing. as long as she is able bodied and willing to be here.

[Fatty]

As long as everyone in the group knows how to suck it up and stay positive, things will get accomplished.

Unfortunately the wife doesn't lol.

[realist]

Ah Fatty your gona go to hell for that one. Better make sure she doesn't find out you snitched her off..........you have to go to sleep sometime......

[Domeguy]

This has been touched on just a little bit, but what do you do in the situation on a group joining up with you. One is a badly needed member, maybe medically trained or mechanic, but the others in the group are completely useless. How badly do you need the one? Is it worth possibly emploding the group from within, just to get the one you need? Or if my wife and I stumble across your fortress. She is a nurse, about 20 yrs exp. and has about seen it all, and comes with quite a well stocked medical bag. But then there is the old, useless fat man with her. I have some useful skills, but everyday it is getting harder to get up in the morning. I have Parkinson's and Altzimers starting. My body is worn out and pretty useless, with my back and neck problems. Very soon I will just be a drain on your recourses. Do you just bite the bullet for the needed medical, or do you wait a week or two, and take me out hunting, and come back telling the tale of how I died fighting off 4 grizzly bears. Unfortunately, there is no body left to bury so they will just have to take your word for it.

[Fatty]

Don't worry realist. She openly admits that fault.

[eagle326]

This has been touched on just a little bit, but what do you do in the situation on a group joining up with you. One is a badly needed member, maybe medically trained or mechanic, but the others in the group are completely useless. How badly do you need the one? Is it worth possibly emploding the group from within, just to get the one you need? Or if my wife and I stumble across your fortress. She is a nurse, about 20 yrs exp. and has about seen it all, and comes with quite a well stocked medical bag. But then there is the old, useless fat man with her. I have some useful skills, but everyday it is getting harder to get up in the morning. I have Parkinson's and Altzimers starting. My body is worn out and pretty useless, with my back and neck problems. Very soon I will just be a drain on your recourses. Do you just bite the bullet for the needed medical, or do you wait a week or two, and take me out hunting, and come back telling the tale of how I died fighting off 4 grizzly bears. Unfortunately, there is no body left to bury so they will just have to take your word for it.

Dome Guy you know about other things such a solar and it's maintenance , working with wood and probably some other things we don't know about. We all can't be Mr. know it all. Even as we get older there are things from the old days that the younger one's don't know. So don't sell yourself short. You can do look out ; guard duty ;driver ; weapons maintenance ; reloading. The jobs may seem small but they free up time for those who will be doing the faster paced jobs. It's our ability to inter weave the old ways with the new that will make us stronger not weaker.

Everyone will eventually be in our shoes and they should be shown respect as teachers and negotiators for the some times heated arguments so level heads prevail. When the day comes that we can no longer be of service hopefully the group will do what they can to make your ends days peaceful. If I have to skip meals or sleep so you may rest so be it . It's not like you worked at being a slacker. :p

Eagle

[Sniper-T]

This has been touched on just a little bit, but what do you do in the situation on a group joining up with you. One is a badly needed member, maybe medically trained or mechanic, but the others in the group are completely useless. How badly do you need the one? Is it worth possibly emploding the group from within, just to get the one you need? Or if my wife and I stumble across your fortress. She is a nurse, about 20 yrs exp. and has about seen it all, and comes with quite a well stocked medical bag. But then there is the old, useless fat man with her. I have some useful skills, but everyday it is getting harder to get up in the morning. I have Parkinson's and Altzimers starting. My body is worn out and pretty useless, with my back and neck problems. Very soon I will just be a drain on your recourses. Do you just bite the bullet for the needed medical, or do you wait a week or two, and take me out hunting, and come back telling the tale of how I died fighting off 4 grizzly bears. Unfortunately, there is no body left to bury so they will just have to take your word for it.

Or once you see that your wife is established and welcomed, would you not just go wandering off looking for the four bears of your own free will, so as to not be a detriment to the group?

;)

[robsdak]

Or once you see that your wife is established and welcomed, would you not just go wandering off looking for the four bears of your own free will, so as to not be a detriment to the group?

;)

that's bad.

[eagle326]

It's gonna take more than 4 bears ; Did you see the size of his head in his picture?

:eek:

[Sniper-T]

^ true that!

[Domeguy]

It's gonna take more than 4 bears ; Did you see the size of his head in his picture?

:eek:

I'm laughing so hard I think I pee'd my pants. LOL

[jamesneuen]

Alright,^^^^^^^^ after that one I doubt the bears would even want to touch him.


Story might have to be changed to trying to save a baby of some sort....... from a cliff..... during a wind storm........

[Domeguy]

It was a dark and stormy night,...

[robsdak]

and there he was, standing alone in the darkness. when out out no where he hears 'HELP! HELP! my baby ! he gallantly strides over too see if he can help, 'mam, what seems to be the issue?' 'i was coming back from the other camp, when a STRONG gust of wind blew my baby from my arms and she landed down on a shelf protruding from this shear rock face, OH Domeguy, can you help me?' (DA DA DUMMMM)

[Domeguy]

Yes Mam, if it take my last breath, I'll bring your baby back to you. As the wind blows through his golden hair for dramatic effect, he strides to the edge. He looks down, and being afraid if heights, wets himself.

[Sniper-T]

Epic derailment!

[Domeguy]

Sorry:eek:

[robsdak]

Epic derailment!

thank you...



Sorry:eek:

what???

[jamesneuen]

Meh, these are important things to think about too. I do think that even if someone had a physical or mental disability there could still be a place for them depending on how they function. Even a person in a wheelchair can do tons of things. When I was at a family reunion I worked at a small cardboard mental puzzle for the better part of a day, trying to solve it. When I walked down to get a drink one of my relatives who has down syndrome had solved it in less than a few minutes.

I think the line would be someone who can't survive without meds, or who is completely incapable of taking care of themselves. The call in that case would be by someone closest to them or themselves.

Here DG you are saying the line would be drawn by yourself. In the event I ever do get to move back close to family I know that my father, and grandfather won't make it. Both have severe type II diabetes. During discussions my wife has brought it up. I explained calmly that it wasn't something we could take care of for a long term event but that they have enough on hand to deal with a small emergency. She was shocked that I was so accepting about just having 2 people of my own family die like that. I told her it wasn't acceptance, it was just inevitable. Doesnt mean we wouldn't try to help them with diet and such but that only goes so far. In the end it would just be prolonging the inevitable.

[Domeguy]

what???[/QUOTE]

Sorry for my major ED problems...no, not erectile disfunction, well, ya, that too, ...I meant Epic Derailment.

[bacpacker]

Epic derailment!

Oh yeah it was!

[Sniper-T]

It was meant as a compliment... derailing a thread in an absolutely epic fashion is an art form. you mastered it!


Now back to programming... even if one in a group had issues, and others were desirable, I would allow them in, as long as they knew and accepted my contribution rules. I honestly don't know how to say to someone that they are undesirable, and I must kill you... or have you got dead.

I'd like to think at the time, I could take care of business, but how to explain to loved ones/group... tough! Imagine a 13yo girl sorry, but I like the way you weave, but your daddy is a lawyer, so I gotta kill him.

[eagle326]

Imagine a 13yo girl sorry, but I like the way you weave, but your daddy is a lawyer, so I gotta kill him.

Just send him out with D.G. :p

[Domeguy]

That would be a no brainer, as I have no respect for any lawyers. Looks like we are gonna need more hungry bears.

[eagle326]

I'm working on it.

[jamesneuen]

lol but people can be taught as well..... usually.

They can always pick up a new skill after being at the camp and I have yet to see someone who can't be put on wood chopping duty, water collection, or latrine duty. There are always chores that a half brained monkey could do that would be perfect for lawyers and such to learn.

On the other hand, there are those that refuse to learn and try to be supervisory only. Those are the kind that unless it is absolutely needed would get a foot in the ass. But I see no reason to kill them for just being incompetent or untrained.

[robsdak]

But I see no reason to kill them for just being incompetent or untrained.

the garden always needs fertilizer... LOL see, not useless. :D

[Domeguy]

Well, I still think I should have wo...sorry, wrong post. All you say is true, but what if the person is about as useful as a Walmart greeter. There are some mornings I wish I felt good enough to be a Walmart greeter. And there are days I feel strong enough to fight a MMA death steel cage match against Richard Simmons and maybe win a round or two.

[eagle326]

Thanks!!! D.G.!!!!!
You sure as hell know how to make a guy's eyes hurt. :eek:

[jamesneuen]

lol, well weigh your good days against your bad and try to see what you can handle. In your case where it is you dealing with pain but you can function on your own then it would be your call.

[Sniper-T]

Dealing with daily pain is a regular aspect of life. Particularly when I am on a foray!. having a 'rest-day' may not be possible, and pushing through it, isn't always desirable, But at least for me, pain can be managed naturally, via the plethora of local willow trees. Diabetes, altz, spinal fusion... not so much. My friends and family are amazed at my tolerance for pain, but Even with that I have been rendered unconscious by a mere shoulder dislocation when I didn't expect it. Not much help to the group in that state... Whether you are 'disabled' or hindered... you have skills that are useful, and can keep your group alive. I would dare say that any single person on this site, would be an asset to their MAG group, up until their dying breathe... however it may come. IMO

[Grumpy Old Man]

As one of the 2 residnt old farts on this thread, I suggest that we are not the "useless eaters" that the socialists think we are. How many are familiar with the physical sciences? How many could make cement from available materials ( Lime and pozzolans). How many know wild plants for food? We who cannot "run 'n gun" any longer can sit and guard. And we can teach. And if "ol Ephraim and his cuzins come after me, I'll go down with a .44 in one hand and a bowie in the other. Or I'll just shoot you in the knee so I can get away!;)

[realist]

Old guys never fight fair anyways.............

[eagle326]

Old guys never fight fair anyways.............


That's why people like Grumpus Maximus and myself have made it this far. :p

[Socalman]

I think my situation may be quite different from many of the people on this forum. It sounds to me like many of the members of this forum are in either a rural or semi-rural living situation. I, on the other hand, am in a suburb of Los Angeles, at least not in that rat hole. Our home is in the foothill area, but these mountains do not sustain enough game for hunting or shelter for many. We would most likely be defending our area of the town. I have spoken with enough of my neighbors to know who has done some sort of prep work. All it takes is a little earthquake and you can ask a few "non-threatening" questions as part of a general conversation. I have a pretty good idea of who is armed and who the anti-gun folks are.

I can see several of us forming our own survival group. Within 2 minutes walking time we have a mechanic, a plumber/carpenter/handyman (his license is a general contractor but he specializes in plumbing), a retired nurse who also is an amazing gardener and cans like crazy. I know she is prepped! Many of us in this area have fairly large gardens and share various crops with others during harvest time. Odd how some people grow certain items, others grow different veggies.

Most of us would not get out of the Los Angeles basin when the SHTF. I can see us organizing to protect our area and one another. I have not attempted to figure the average age of our section of the street, but I would guess most of us are well beyond 55.

DomeGuy, I have enjoyed your posts since I first joined this forum. Six years ago I was in bad shape due to back problems. Could not walk, horrible pain, loaded up on meds. I was bed-ridden for 3 months, wacked out on morphine and dilauded yet I had people from work contact me for my opinions about issues. You still have some great abilities and could certainly be of value to your local group.

[Stormfeather]

This has been touched on just a little bit, but what do you do in the situation on a group joining up with you. One is a badly needed member, maybe medically trained or mechanic, but the others in the group are completely useless. How badly do you need the one? Is it worth possibly emploding the group from within, just to get the one you need? Or if my wife and I stumble across your fortress. She is a nurse, about 20 yrs exp. and has about seen it all, and comes with quite a well stocked medical bag. But then there is the old, useless fat man with her. I have some useful skills, but everyday it is getting harder to get up in the morning. I have Parkinson's and Altzimers starting. My body is worn out and pretty useless, with my back and neck problems. Very soon I will just be a drain on your recourses. Do you just bite the bullet for the needed medical, or do you wait a week or two, and take me out hunting, and come back telling the tale of how I died fighting off 4 grizzly bears. Unfortunately, there is no body left to bury so they will just have to take your word for it.

Well, Im a firm believer in everyone brings something to the table, be it skillset, physical skills, knowledge, or regretfully, cannon fodder. As it stands DG, you bring a awesome bit of knowledge to the table, which in turn can be used and taught to those more physically able to accomplish the tasks. If there comes a time where you cannot function, and you choose your own way out, thats your call. I would rather go out "fighting 4 bears"... than be a burden to my group. Im sure theres others who may see it this way, and others who may not. If it comes down to it, I would make sure that my passing, in some way, benefits the groups survival.

[Katrina]

Never you mind them, DG and the missus are always welcome here.

[Gunfixr]

Just finally decided to read this. Wow. Guess we should stay home.
We live in a decent sized city, butted up to another decent sized city. In other words, a war zone that is not self sustainable.
Both my wife and daughter have crohns, which isnt too bad if they eat right. However, my wife has fibromyalgia, which without her meds will have enough pain to make many days useless, and her thyroid is dying, so without those meds she would slowly die.
Yet, she has extensive knowledge of nursing, can sew almost anything, and can cook pretty much anything. Not a bad shot, either.
We have a couple friends who might get together, might not. Hints at the subject havent gone anywhere. They only seem to prep some. Family, well, the one I know I could trust wouldnt do this kind of thing. My son, who recently moved out, has grown up quite a bit, so I think now hed be ok, but hes not prepping, and didnt want the skills while here.
It looks like mostly we are pretty much screwed, unless we just happened to run into a group that we could trust/trusted us.

[Sniper-T]

It truly is unfortunate that we, as a group, are spread out over God's green acre!

I would welcome everyone one of ya with open arms.

[robsdak]

It truly is unfortunate that we, as a group, are spread out over God's green acre!

I would welcome everyone one of ya with open arms.

this would be a good offer, IF you lived in a climate that was livable for more that 4/5 months at a time. let me extend the same offer. where i am isn't all that bad. i can garden year round.

[eagle326]

this would be a good offer, IF you lived in a climate that was livable for more that 4/5 months at a time. let me extend the same offer. where i am isn't all that bad. i can garden year round.

Just the fact that you and Sniper -T have both opened your homesteads's to all fellow Ants even though you both are polar opposite's in climate.

To this old curmudgeon ; This is a sign that all are welcome of like mind and that we as a whole can overcome climate differences.
We have 2 choices .

1- Dress as usual
2- dress accordingly to climate

[Vodin]

Old guys never fight fair anyways.............

Nope takes time to learn the ways to win, we are not glory hounds. :)

[Vodin]

DG, is also very skilled with wood manipulation. Everyone here has a skill, ability or knowledge. Kids just run blindly into shit cause well they are invincible. <I know I was/am/could be one of those idiots> And the few that have made it further into the field of knowledge.. <natural selection removed most of us> have gained tact.

We will do well together as the old peeps brigade :)

[Domeguy]

It truly is unfortunate that we, as a group, are spread out over God's green acre!

I would welcome everyone one of ya with open arms.

great to hear that. I am packing as I write this, and so is the missus. We will be wearing the Depends, (if they are good enough for our astronauts, they are good enough for me) so we won't need to stop much. Also bringing the 4 cats...and do not say good, we will have food then...or anything else like that.

[robsdak]

cannon fodder.

always need 'cannon fodder' Stormy, brother, sometimes you kill me! laughed so hard, almost lost a lung. :D


great to hear that. I am packing as I write this, and so is the missus. We will be wearing the Depends, (if they are good enough for our astronauts, they are good enough for me) so we won't need to stop much. Also bringing the 4 cats...and do not say good, we will have food then...or anything else like that.

OH! CRAP!!! did i miss something? shit it's quiet down here. i was busy most of the day....

[Domeguy]

OH! CRAP!!! did i miss something? shit it's quiet down here. i was busy most of the day....[/QUOTE]

Apparently ST has invited myself and the missus to move in with them. He didn't mention anything about a time limit, so I'm guessing we just might stay a while. We even are bringing the 4 cats, seeing as how he has reformed himself and now no longer eats cats, but loves to pet them on their little furry heads.

[Sniper-T]

C'mon up Dome guy, and your furry little bretheren as well.

Just remember, I live in the wilderness, so sometimes cats just wander...off... all on their own!

Now, where did I put the...

http://www.dealiciousmom.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/franks-red-hot-coupon1.jpg

Ah... there is it...

Got an ETA DG? I'll fire up the grill!

[Domeguy]

Some times they just wander off...huh...I guess there might be a few bears involved?

[Sniper-T]

bears, coyotes, wolves, wolverines, badgers, linx, mirror, bobcats, cougars, eagles, hawks, falcons...

I've seen just about anything that can and will eat a cat, on my property.

[jamesneuen]

mirror?

[Domeguy]

Mirror....,lol...lol...lol...wait a minute, that's not funny! Well, it really is, but in a bad way.

[Sniper-T]

lol... I just thought I'd sneak that in and see who grasped it. rofl..



yum yum

[Domeguy]

Dear Mr. sniper,
I just remembered we have a sick Aunt in Scranton, or somewhere, so we will be unable to attend your banquet, um, I mean unable to visit your humble abode.
Respectfully,
Mr. & Mrs. Domeguy, Brother, Harry, Lucy, Little One

[Stormfeather]

always need 'cannon fodder' Stormy, brother, sometimes you kill me! laughed so hard, almost lost a lung. :D


Well, lets be honest, we all have friends that if/when shit goes sideways, that we all know will show up at the door knocking and a banging saying "save me save me, I should have listen to you!!". To most of my "outside of the circle of trust friends" credit, they have started putting food away, purchasing ammo, and little things to make an effort, but they have yet to join me on a monthly bug-out or a simple camp over in the woods. So... if they do show up, as bad as it sounds, I would trade them for my group of well trained and prepped friends in a heartbeat. And while they may survive a tactical encounter, and hopefully learn from it, they are nothing more than cannon fodder for the main group to use to capitalize on to maintain its survivability. I know that probably sounds mean, heartless, and probably "asshole-ish", but the bottom line is this, I would sacrifice one of them for one of my children to survive each and every time. You have to think, SHTF is the bottom line, you either put up or shut up, theres not going to be a lot of wiggle room for the untrained, and untested.

[Sniper-T]

Dear Mr. sniper,
I just remembered we have a sick Aunt in Scranton, or somewhere, so we will be unable to attend your banquet, um, I mean unable to visit your humble abode.
Respectfully,
Mr. & Mrs. Domeguy, Brother, Harry, Lucy, Little One

Alas, it was not meant to be. I wish your Aunt well ;)

If you get me her address I'll send a nice care package down for her, maybe some homemade Jerky...

[robsdak]

Alas, it was not meant to be. I wish your Aunt well ;)

If you get me her address I'll send a nice care package down for her, maybe some homemade Jerky...

LMAO!

[Kesephist]

Well, lets be honest, we all have friends that if/when shit goes sideways, that we all know will show up at the door knocking and a banging saying "save me save me, I should have listen to you!!". To most of my "outside of the circle of trust friends" credit, they have started putting food away, purchasing ammo, and little things to make an effort, but they have yet to join me on a monthly bug-out or a simple camp over in the woods. So... if they do show up, as bad as it sounds, I would trade them for my group of well trained and prepped friends in a heartbeat. And while they may survive a tactical encounter, and hopefully learn from it, they are nothing more than cannon fodder for the main group to use to capitalize on to maintain its survivability. I know that probably sounds mean, heartless, and probably "asshole-ish", but the bottom line is this, I would sacrifice one of them for one of my children to survive each and every time. You have to think, SHTF is the bottom line, you either put up or shut up, theres not going to be a lot of wiggle room for the untrained, and untested.

One of the more disgusting things about the circumstances that make SHTF so likely is the forced loss of anything resembling softness. Where sentimentality is regarded as a cardinal sin.

Sir, I understand your point of view, and from a mathematical point of view, agree with it. Nowhere, however, is it written that I have to LIKE it.

And I don't.

I do have the advantage (or handicap) that all planning here has been on my own. No group, no backup. So perhaps I have the 'luxury" of thinking so 'soft'.

If stating all that costs me my access here and what camaraderie I have made, so be it.

"You can put me before the Gates of Hell, but I won't back down."

[Kesephist]

As I read these posts I notice most all are what you are looking for qualities that are for the men and jobs you expect men to have to contribute but no one has addressed the females. I'm wondering what your expectations are for the females in the group? Just courious to see what the guys view on this is.

Madame, I can speak on the matter with neutrality, as my planning and equipage are as a solo.

M4 bullets have no gender sensors in them, that they will hit males or females more often. Sutures and hemostats do not have the capacity to detect who is using them to stitch a wound. A freshly killed deer does not give a care who is dressing its meat or hide, nor too terribly caught up with the gender of whoever is thanking its spirit for them.

There will be groups, I surmise, that are all male. There will be groups that are all female. They will not last nearly as long as those groups that take on from both sexes.

I somehow doubt this missive will last long, as I just stepped on some toes earlier. But I hope it gets read before it gets deleted.

[bacpacker]

Keepist, you may be surprised by this site. Your statement and opinion is just that, yours. Not many folks will hammer you too bad for stating it. We all come at stuff from different perspectives, needs, even wants.

[Sniper-T]

K, you may be opinionated, and vocal; but you are both in a respectful manner. The same as almost everyone on this site. We all have our points of view, and we all don't agree on everything, but we understand, and tolerate each others opinions even when we don't agree with them. I have seen nothing in any of your posts that would warrant deletion, and certainly not the ban hammer. (Unless I missed something) Otherwise keep on keeping on! You're stimulating some good conversations, and bringing a fresh look at some old conversations.

[Vodin]

Kesephist,

I find if a person on this site has issues with what has been stated by another that person will be notified.

You are more than civil in your stances.

As for male/female roles.. I am not one to place hindrances on another because I don't think it would be proper. Every one has talents and let Natural Selection sort those out. You can correct the problem you cant correct the problem in another s mind.

[jamesneuen]

SO...... Not exactly what I had in mind when I started this. It never occurred to me that anyone would have an issue with male/female.

Mostly this was just a discussion about if you would prefer to go it alone or in a group and if in a group, what are your requirements for joining.

[Sniper-T]

Personally, I like that LH and then K called us all out on this.

we all know that chicks are the fairer sex, and need to be coddled, cared for and cushed!

'cause basically... if we don't treat them 'right' they will kick our collective asses!

rofl!

peeps are peeps in my book... if you want to be part of my group... you pull your weight! Sex is irrelevant!

Well... no... sex is um... :) ... GENDER is irrelevant!!!

[bacpacker]

I figure there are gonna be many jobs in a SHTF situation and many folks have certain skills others may not. Why not share the load? My wife is somewhat limited in what tasks she can perform due to health reasons, but she has skills I don't possess. We try and balance out and get everything done. I see a group situation being more of the same.

[ElevenBravo]

Not exactly what I had in mind when I started this.
Sometimes, threads spawn like that! HA HA! Its not always a bad thing though... Discussion on ideas other than mainstream sometimes goes toward creative thinking, and creative problem solving.

EB

[Domeguy]

I sure wish I would get a hug before being fed to the bears.....just sayin.

[jamesneuen]

lol, well DG, if you come down here you wouldn't have to deal with bears. Might be some heroic story about rescuing babies burning in the surf as you fight off a few sharks though.

[Katrina]

I've said it before , Dome, you and the Mrs. and the fur babies are always welcome here.They'll have to deal with my two fur babies. Although,Ms Chloe IS our guard cat. She's really tolerant about other animals in the house as long as they realize she's the queen cat. LOL

[Kesephist]

One point has not been addressed in all this. A hateful one, and I am getting damned tired of being the stupid SOB that keeps kicking this sort of thing up in the several places that I frequent.

But it has to be done.

Levity aside, what do your several groups aim to do to those otherwise unthreatening souls who do not meet your several criteria?

Banish them, with what they were encountered with?

Banish them after stripping them of their things "for the greater good"?

Imprison them?

Execute them?

I'll candidly admit, I do not know what I would do. EE&BE, probably. Damn well will not farm it out, if it becomes needful to be Judge Lynch.

[jamesneuen]

For me it depends on what they know, where you meet them and if they are a threat.

If they're a few miles away when met, know nothing about your living area and are no threat then leave them be.

If they are meet at your area or nearby, have intimate knowledge of your area or are a threat then that's a different story. But it would be a judgement call based on the time and conditions. I believe everyone can be useful, just not always trusted

[Kesephist]

Egalitarianism is one of the first things jettisoned in the face of survival. The ATSHTF-time will be a version of the Spartan agoge, writ large, with the prize not being citizenship, but life. "No quarter, asked or given; no prisoners." Mercy is different... quick and, if possible, painless, is merciful.

Being part of a larger group to be disposable for its central core membership... this is different from those that are being opposed? In what way?

As stated before, my plans are as a solo... difficult and long-shot at best. Avoiding conundrums such as this are one of the few good things about it.

This whole line of discussion, btw, is prepping, too. Mental and ethical prep.

[jamesneuen]

So prepping solo, what would you do when a family of 4 shows up randomly?

[jamesneuen]

The idea of egalitarianism applies to fundamental worth and social worth. When society collapses so does that. Your worth is based on what you can bring to the table. It's up to each individual to ensure they have skills that are useful.

Not sure what you mean about being disposable to the central group. But if someone contributes and has worth, then they are as much an integral part as the originals. The difference then is that the outsiders need your group. You may not need them, which puts you in the position of control.

I agree that being solo I would make far different decisions but I have 3 others to protect and provide for, so things are more difficult. I am willing to blur, cross, or get rid of social morals to do whatever I need for them.

[Stormfeather]

One point has not been addressed in all this. A hateful one, and I am getting damned tired of being the stupid SOB that keeps kicking this sort of thing up in the several places that I frequent.


I, for one, cannot say why you are getting kicked when you bring topics like this one up in other forums, But I can assure you, that wont happen here. I am in agreeance with the others here, you have not said or acted in any way poorly nor do your submissions reflect poorly, so by all means, keep them coming. You DO NOT have to agree to anything I say, but that is because we are 2 different mindsets, with Im sure, similar, but different goals when it comes to prepping. Just because we dont agree, or see eye to eye, doesnt mean we dont listen and respect others opinions.

But it has to be done.

Levity aside, what do your several groups aim to do to those otherwise unthreatening souls who do not meet your several criteria?


Well, our location is pretty secluded, so while it would be pretty unlikely we would have folks like that come into our AO, we still have came up with a protocol for just such circumstances.

Banish them, with what they were encountered with?


By banishing them, that would entail allowing them access to our location, which we do not plan on doing. But our mindset is along the same lines. We wont be allowing them access to our location, and would gently, with visual indicators, suggest that there are other places they should look for a place to bug out to. By that, I mean implied force, we have the weaponry, we have the skillset, and we have the experience of taking on smaller, and oftentimes, larger forces, and have the know-how to ensure our survival. This comes from multiple deployments overseas in combat zones on 3 different continents. By having a show of force with people staged with overwhelming firepower, and one representative explaining to them politely, that there is no place for them here, but offering other avenues for them possibly explore, I think is a great option that many here have thought of as well.

Banish them after stripping them of their things "for the greater good"?


If they are mobile, then its a pretty good (oh boy...) assumption that they are worse off than we are, so No, I would see no reason to strip them of their belongings.

Imprison them?


Extra mouths to feed? No thanks, I have my own to worry about.

Execute them?


Have they performed hostile acts against our group? Do they have the means, abilitys, and inclination to attempt it?

I'll candidly admit, I do not know what I would do. EE&BE, probably. Damn well will not farm it out, if it becomes needful to be Judge Lynch.


You dont have to know what to do, and most people wont know what to do until they are faced with the situation, the best I can offer, is to come up with multiple agreed upon protocols that you can fall back on in case you are faced with the situation, and rely on that as your baseline for accepting/rejecting people into your group or location.

Keep asking your questions, I love the train of thought we have going on here!

[Stormfeather]

One of the more disgusting things about the circumstances that make SHTF so likely is the forced loss of anything resembling softness. Where sentimentality is regarded as a cardinal sin.


I dont believe its the forced loss as you say, but more of the need to harden up, and tighten your personal standards up. Sentimentality will always be there, because we all will wish for the days past where there was no need to be bugging out.

Sir, I understand your point of view, and from a mathematical point of view, agree with it. Nowhere, however, is it written that I have to LIKE it.


Once again, I agree with you, I understand my point of view, I agree with it, and like you, I dont like it either, but I consider it necessary to ensure the survival of myself, my family, and my circle of those close to me. Its a hard decision, but its also my burden to carry if it ever comes to fruition.

And I don't.

I do have the advantage (or handicap) that all planning here has been on my own. No group, no backup. So perhaps I have the 'luxury" of thinking so 'soft'.


As a solo prepper, you have us all at an advantage, you can maintain opsec, persec, and if you plan accordingly, there is no reason you would ever have to worry when you bug out, because you wont have to answer to anyone, and your decisions affect you and you alone.

If stating all that costs me my access here and what camaraderie I have made, so be it.

"You can put me before the Gates of Hell, but I won't back down."

I see no reason why it would, your opinion is just that, yours and yours alone, nobody here is going to slam you for it, unless you start making statements about cooking cats for survival.

[jamesneuen]

I dunno, if he has any good recipes for cat he may be welcome with ST.

[Stormfeather]

I dunno, if he has any good recipes for cat he may be welcome with ST.

LOL, I wasnt going to say it... But I guess someone had to!

[Domeguy]

You made do with me as you wish before feeding me to the bears, my wife is yours for the taking, but if even for 1 minute, you think you are going to harm even one hair on his furry little head, you will feel Brothers full wrath upon you...and then may God have mercy upon your soul!

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f226/gantsum/5d922a663977872140d04fbd8fef15fe_zpsmzl8qv5v.jpg

[jamesneuen]

Lol

[Sniper-T]

yum yum. That would make a couple of awesome end nibblies on a six foot shish kabob, cooked over an open fire, basted with a sweet pineapple honey glaze with garlic stuffed onion stuffed peppers, and oyster mushroom stuffed crimini mushroom stuffed portabello mushroom balls.

Served with a red wine reduction fire glazed with pine nuts and couscous, and of course, with a nice Chianti and fava beans...

[Domeguy]

yum yum. That would make a couple of awesome end nibblies on a six foot shish kabob, cooked over an open fire, basted with a sweet pineapple honey glaze with garlic stuffed onion stuffed peppers, and oyster mushroom stuffed crimini mushroom stuffed portabello mushroom balls.

Served with a red wine reduction fire glazed with pine nuts and couscous, and of course, with a nice Chianti and fava beans...

You sir have just been kicked out of my little group!
We don't need you or your many tons of supplies, because Brother will catch and bring to me a dead field mouse any time I want one. Yum yum!

[Sniper-T]

Dude, you are too paranoid... your cats are more than welcome at my place... At least once!

To prove it I'll whip up some nice kitty-cordon-blue, for everyone... else!

[Domeguy]

There we were, standing in the pouring rain, shivering from the cold, when I saw...no felt it. It was as if I was being warmed from the inside out, and even in the rain, I no longer felt the cold of the water pulling the heat from my bones. Your act of kindness to take us in, your ability to transform the wretched mass of downtrodden souls into the hopeful light of true, pure goodness made our hearts want to burst from pure joy....then you say at least once.

[Sniper-T]

yep... dude!

nom, nom, nom
here kitty

[Kesephist]

In case anyone didn't know... EE&BE = "escape, evade and be elsewhere"

And no, I am not a feliphage. I had Kae Go Gi ONCE when in Korea and got laughed at for three solid days.

The Kingdom of Nye has advantages in that only the most despairing and desperate would venture much off the roads..... or ON the roads, come to that.

As to that family of four?

This is the best I got.

"Freeze. Hands high. I'm out here with myself and supplies for one. Turn around and head back the way you came. This is your only warning."

It beats dispatching them out of hand.

No, it's not perfect. I leave perfection in the hands of Deity... (looks around at the assembled, seeing a conspicuous lack of deities here.)

[jamesneuen]

Ok now what if they refuse to leave? The father stands begging and pleading for food and shelter for his family while having nothing to contribute?

Or even better, what happens when the group of offroading hillbillies who got stuck decide that what you have should belong to them? Do you invite them to stay or take your chances being judge Judy and executioner?

[Domeguy]

They very well may become your executioner.
.

[jamesneuen]

That's my point, where does mercy and human compassion end, and self preservation begin?

[Sniper-T]

That's a line that each and every one of us has to determine based on our individual needs and beliefs; based on our specific situations. Someone with a MAG group of 50 from all walks of life could be more discriminatory in selection than a single family group or individual... or not!

Only you know the full extent of your preps (people, stuff, training); and know what you need/want to subsidize it with.

[Kesephist]

All very valid, and been nicely sleepless over formulating the appropriate responses, tyvfm.

For myself, in general, I will not take by force, nor will I allow myself to be forced to give. Anyone wanting to test my resolve had best get it right the first time.

If my lack of specifics regarding responses is disappointing, then so be it.

[jamesneuen]

I didn't expect concrete answers because unless I was in the moment I don't know how I would react to each situation. I can tell you what my likely response would be though.

I'm extremely logic based in everything I do even in normal society. I can't help it. When weighing my options about how to handle people it will be completely logic based every time in those situations.

I was reading somewhere about how a sociopath would be the ideal leader in teotwawki. They said that their choices would always be for their survival, without any compassion or hesitation. It was a really good article, I wish I could find it.

[Kesephist]

They very well may become your executioner.

Reckon I'll find out all too soon as to who executes who. Solo's, of need, have to be very proficient; no backup.

[Sniper-T]

They very well may become your executioner.


Reckon I'll find out all too soon.

Or I/we may become theirs!!

[Vodin]

Kind of a skewed answer but here it is.

I/Wife will need to be able to see who they are. And the definition of the word "see" is rather complex and yet simple. She better than I are able to gauge people rather well. Should we get a good 'feeling' that may change the result. We own a business (17 years) and I interact with people all day. When I receive phone calls inquiring of our rates and services 80% call back after they call other locations or they settle with our company on the spot. We are not the cheapest service either.

I enter a situation where the client is in a frustrated state. I remove that before I start to work.

We have learned to rely on our people skills to build a business and have it continue even in a bad market. I am the front man in face to face dealings and my wife can assess people just by watching them.

I suggest you review your situations with more of your goals in mind rather than what you need to do for them. If you help will they? be good to team up with, supply good information, can they fulfill and needs you might have etc.

[Stormfeather]

Kind of a skewed answer but here it is.
I suggest you review your situations with more of your goals in mind rather than what you need to do for them. If you help will they? be good to team up with, supply good information, can they fulfill and needs you might have etc.

Thats exactly what I was doing I think that started this particular tangent in the thread. Kesephist doesnt agree to my point where I said I would use less experienced as cannon fodder if it means saving my children or fellow experienced preppers. I mean it, and I stand by it.


I was reading somewhere about how a sociopath would be the ideal leader in teotwawki. They said that their choices would always be for their survival, without any compassion or hesitation. It was a really good article, I wish I could find it.

Been called a "Functioning Sociopath" by the last VA Psych Eval, does that count?

[Stormfeather]

In case anyone didn't know... EE&BE = "escape, evade and be elsewhere"

And no, I am not a feliphage. I had Kae Go Gi ONCE when in Korea and got laughed at for three solid days.

The Kingdom of Nye has advantages in that only the most despairing and desperate would venture much off the roads..... or ON the roads, come to that.

As to that family of four?

This is the best I got.

"Freeze. Hands high. I'm out here with myself and supplies for one. Turn around and head back the way you came. This is your only warning."

It beats dispatching them out of hand.

No, it's not perfect. I leave perfection in the hands of Deity... (looks around at the assembled, seeing a conspicuous lack of deities here.)

You think cat is bad.. try living off of those damn jackrabbits for a month out there in your AO, My California MAG-mates and I did that, was about as harsh as can be. You would be surprised how many people will venture out there, I thought my BOL was pretty off-grid til I saw a 4-wheel club drive right thru my "marked" no trespassing property. They were in for a bit of a surprise.

As for the deity thing... not everyone here is religious, so no, not everyone here believes in organized religion. But for those here who do, they are true and faithful to their religions, Please withhold judgement of who they are religion-wise, until you have gotten to know them better. Making that type of assumption is borderline insulting. And for the record, I am not a religious person, I am a very spiritual person, harkening back to my Native roots and heritage. I respect others faiths, out of respect for my own.

[Stormfeather]

Ok now what if they refuse to leave? The father stands begging and pleading for food and shelter for his family while having nothing to contribute?

Or even better, what happens when the group of offroading hillbillies who got stuck decide that what you have should belong to them? Do you invite them to stay or take your chances being judge Judy and executioner?

I think that the second group would learn very quickly that they are in an area they shouldnt be in. After all, when it comes to life and death, there are those who think about what they should do, and there are those that know what they must do. having served my country now for as many years as I have, I have no issues with being Judge Judy and Executioner.

As for the father of the family begging and pleading, with nothing to bring to the table, then no, there is no admittance here either. A good father knows he must provide for his family, and keep them safe, the inability to do so, well, why would I allow that mindset into a group of people who think the exact opposite? It becomes a festering cancer, of give me, support me, I want what I should have, and I dont have to do anything to get it...yea, not going to happen here.

[Sniper-T]

^ Agreed! And well put stormy!

I haven't served my Country, but I have been a hunter all of my conscious life, and I see that group of hillbillies no different than a pack of coyotes, feral cats or some other vermin needing eradication.

That father is probably the same fucker who laughed at me today for buying 12 boxes of cereal for the pantry, because they were on a wicked sale. " The store will still be here next week!"

[Stormfeather]

^ Agreed! And well put stormy!

I haven't served my Country, but I have been a hunter all of my conscious life, and I see that group of hillbillies no different than a pack of coyotes, feral cats or some other vermin needing eradication.

That father is probably the same fucker who laughed at me today for buying 12 boxes of cereal for the pantry, because they were on a wicked sale. " The store will still be here next week!"

One doesnt have to be a professional soldier to be willing to dispatch a feral animal threatening the flock. Its all a manner of mechanics, (point, pull the trigger, move onto the next one) Past that, the human factor doesnt come into play because its nothing more than taking out a predator as far as I am concerned. So, as you say, its vermin needing eradication. I would say that your ability, because of this, is as equal to mine when it comes to that. "It is what it is".

And yes, that father laughing at you in the supermarket for stocking up on staples, will more than likely be the one begging for your supplies in the end. I see no need in taking from those who have prepared for an SHTF event, and giving to those who have not.
As a somewhat warped side note----If there was single men in the group, I would entertain the possibility of allowing the wife to join our group, knowing that she would be leaving her husband to fend for himself. And if there was children involved, I would even allow them to come in. But the wife would have to understand, that in doing so, she would have to be willing to take one of the single men (of her choosing) as her husband and follow all the rules of the group. The man she chooses would of course be responsible for the care and feeding of his new family. So its somewhat of a double edged sword, the man gains a partner, but also gains more responsibility because now he must also feed and take care of her and possibly her children as well. Hard choices on both sides, but also, shows how dedicated you are to surviving.

[Gunfixr]

Me being less experienced, I guess I need to stay in my AO, as I don't really want to be cannon fodder.

I certainly understand the point, I think I might use different standards to decide who would be cannon fodder.

[Sniper-T]

ok guys, enough of the religious confrontations. Kesephist you make good points, and I agree in that I also do not believe in organized religion... but do believe in something. And as a distant hero of Stormy once coined: " There are no Atheists in a foxhole"

enough said.

Unfortunately, most of the people that I would welcome into my group with open arms are thousands of miles away, and baring advance notice, not likely to show up for the party. So, I do have a few friends and neighbours who know I prep and I would welcome in, albeit somewhat begrudgingly, as they would bring nothing with them save appetites... but they do have some skills, and could be taught others. The mrs and I could manage the throw back to the 1800's easy enough, it's the defending 24/7 for the first month or 6 that would be exceptionally difficult.

[Stormfeather]

Me being less experienced, I guess I need to stay in my AO, as I don't really want to be cannon fodder.

I certainly understand the point, I think I might use different standards to decide who would be cannon fodder.

I lol;ed at this GunFixr, mainly because you would never be cannon fodder. Im referring to the type of person who I would have no choice but to take in, but in nothing but a drain on resources. By your presence here alone, that means you wouldnt be a drain on resources because you bring knowledge, skills, and mindset to the table. Hope this clarifys my position.

[Gunfixr]

Ok. Reading it, it looked like a "no military and no combat experience means cannon fodder".
I understand a group could end up taking in some who end being useful for little more than cannon fodder, it just seemed you required the combat experience, or else.

I was like, wow, guess i better keep my distance, or be prepared to win everywhere you sent me.

Come to think of it, I can think of some people now who are little more than cannon fodder.

[Gunfixr]

Its kind of funny, welcome to the internet.
One of us types in our heart and soul, and then puts it up for the world.
Then, the rest get to interpret it.
It is literal, or figurative?
Sad, or happy?
Angry, or calm?
Just black and white words on a screen.
Not like a conversation in person, with facial expressions, body language, tone of voice.

Still, we herr pretty much slide along without issues.
Imagine how well we could get along in person.





















Or, we would just think each other is a bunch of assholes, lol.

[Sniper-T]

A couple of my best friends are assholes! But they're my kind of asshole.

lol

[Stormfeather]

Ok. Reading it, it looked like a "no military and no combat experience means cannon fodder".
I understand a group could end up taking in some who end being useful for little more than cannon fodder, it just seemed you required the combat experience, or else.

I was like, wow, guess i better keep my distance, or be prepared to win everywhere you sent me.

Come to think of it, I can think of some people now who are little more than cannon fodder.

Wow, I never thought to think it would have been interpreted in such a way to be honest. If I offended you in some point with that idea, I do apologize, was not my intent.

As for what I meant, let me see if I can expound in it in a little bit more depth. If theres people who by trick or by trap, somehow end up with our group, who are not part of my "circle" or part of my "network", have zero applicable skills nor the mindset, willingness or compunction to contribute to the overall well-being of the group as a whole, then yes, they are first on my list for cannon fodder. People who pose a security risk, those who intent is to turn a SHTF into a Renaissance Fair reunion where everyone gets along, we all drink grog, smoke pit, dress like hippys, and enjoy the times without technology, and we all live peaceably til we die peacefully, yet they dont contribute any sweat equity, positive input, and insist on living off of the sweat and determination of others... Yea, they die first. Theres too many of us that are working our ass's off currently to put food up, building up ammo reserves, training on weapons proficiency, farming, animal husbandry, solar, and all the other myriad of things that need to be done... to be dealing with a drain on resources like a non-productive, or disruptive person who by total accident, ended up attached to our group.

GunFixr, I seriously doubt you fit ANY of the descriptors I listed. Grog drinker maybe... but thats probably it.

- - - Updated - - -


A couple of my best friends are assholes! But they're my kind of asshole.

lol

Hell, most if not all of my friends are assholes, but they sure as hell pull their share of the wagonload. So I guess that means they are my kind of asshole too!

[Gunfixr]

It didnt offend me. I just thought the standards might have been a bit tight, is all. After all, its your group, to run as you see fit.
So, by saying i would stay away was not that i was offended, only that i would not meet standards, and truly did not want to be cannon fodder. I wasnt mad, i just didnt stack up. Or so i thought.
We are good, always were.

But yes, i agree. There will be plenty who show up with nothing but a drag on the group, and get in by devious means.
Somebodys got to walk point.
With a butter knife.

Matter of fact, a friend and i used to talk about the "butter knife brigade" as we called it. Kind of a test. You show up with nothing but an appetite, we give you a butter knife and tell you not to come back without a good fighting rifle.

[Stormfeather]

It didnt offend me. I just thought the standards might have been a bit tight, is all. After all, its your group, to run as you see fit.
So, by saying i would stay away was not that i was offended, only that i would not meet standards, and truly did not want to be cannon fodder. I wasnt mad, i just didnt stack up. Or so i thought.
We are good, always were.

But yes, i agree. There will be plenty who show up with nothing but a drag on the group, and get in by devious means.
Somebodys got to walk point.
With a butter knife.

Matter of fact, a friend and i used to talk about the "butter knife brigade" as we called it. Kind of a test. You show up with nothing but an appetite, we give you a butter knife and tell you not to come back without a good fighting rifle.

Holy crap.... I LOVE this idea! The same concept was put to test in "Unintended Consequences" by one of the characters who was pushed into the Warsaw Gulag when they decide to start fighting back.

[Gunfixr]

I read your post, at first didnt remember, but then it came back.

Funny thing is, we talked about that quite some time back, and i only read unintended consequences a couple years ago. I dont think my friend has ever read it.

But it will seperate the wheat from the chaff.




You really want to impress us? Come back with an lmg.

[Kesephist]

You really want to impress us? Come back with an lmg.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-pcKCUoj1vVU/UOHBI6w70pI/AAAAAAAAX9c/z4h1i1yizTE/s240/Lincolnn.jpg

[Kesephist]

Woops. thought that was IMG not ell em gee (which I take to mean light machine gun)

I am, as always, available at oldvegasfox@reagan.com

[Stormfeather]

While I got nothing but love for Mr Lincoln... I prefer a LMG...

[ElevenBravo]

And, I like SBR. ;-)

Though not enough to go though the headache of getting one...


EB

[Gunfixr]

Lol, yep, lmg was light machine gun.
However, lincoln was right, we will destroy ourselves from within.

What many dont know is that mr lincoln played a part in that with things he did in the early phases of the destruction of our freedoms.

I have an sbr. Its not so bad. Kind of like christmas. You spend a bunch of money ahead of time, and then wait. Just about the time you forget about it, its christmas time. Time to receive the gift you got yourself.

[bacpacker]

I love the statement by Lincoln. However IMO, his was the start of the downfall we are seeing now. The states had the right of self determination at the time. When South Carolina a exercised that right, we ended up with the worst war for this country we have seen yet.

[Kesephist]

I love the statement by Lincoln. However IMO, his was the start of the downfall we are seeing now. The states had the right of self determination at the time. When South Carolina a exercised that right, we ended up with the worst war for this country we have seen yet.

An inevitable one, given that the national Sin wasn't crushed at the birth of this nation. Unfortunately, this was just as well, as this nation would have become two, free and slave, and neither one strong enough to deal with George III. Whether that would have led to the impetus for the British Crown to destroy that Sin (slavery) is an exercise for alternative historians.

(Before anyone starts winding up on my old behind about 'sin', I use it in the meaning of willfully harming others. If anyone thinks that slavery is not a sin, then IMO they are as out of touch as the antebellum last-gasp-of-tease-driven-chivalry individuals that were the ultimate profiteers of it.)

I note you say "yet". I prophesy that the next war on American soil will be the last one the "United States" fights. It will be the more physically fit beneficiaries of seven years of free stuff (on top of three generations of living on the public taxpayer-funded dole) going through withdrawal of their freebies, fighting and looting the very people that funded it.

People that likely will be coalescing into the MAGs this thread was designed to discuss.

Not the elites, though... they'll have long since flitted away to some sanctuary, either sitting pretty and sipping maitais for the rest of their days, or waiting for the serfs to quit fighting each other so they may return as "rightful" lords and masters of what's left.

I am, as always, available at oldvegasfox@reagan.com

[Stormfeather]

And, I like SBR. ;-)

Though not enough to go though the headache of getting one...


EB

Not really any headache involved, fill out the trust paperwork, get it notarized, fill out the ATF paperwork, send in your funds to them, wait 2-3 months. Once you get your tax stamp back, slap your SBR upper on your lower you registered, and party on Garth!

[Gunfixr]

Well, if you did one on a form 1, youll need to get it engraved at some point soon after its approved, and you assemble it.

Its still a longer than 2 to 3 months wait, last i checked. Its still running 5 or so. Way better than the 9 to 11 months it was a couple years ago.

[ElevenBravo]

Mid Length is fine by me, its nice the upper and lower come apart, fits in smaller areas than when assembled... An SBR would be pretty nice, but.. Not nice enough for the price of the stamp, the wait and the headache.

EB

[Stormfeather]

GunFixr, our E-files are literally only taking 75-90 days, could it be the region that we are in?

But yes, I do remember the days of 11-12 months!

[Sniper-T]

At first, I thought you boys were talking greek... then I realized... I know greek, and you guys are talking gibberish....

in other words, huh???
...

[Gunfixr]

Ok, yeah, i forgot about efile. I did one back in jan, took 5 weeks, bht theyve been getting longer. I think more people are catching on. Cant wait until they get f4s back on efile.

Sniper, we have a federal agency here called the batfe. It regulates firearms, among other things. Certain firearms are considered somehow more dangerous, or evil, or something, and tightly controlled. They must be registered with the govt.
An sbr is a short barreled rifle. It is any rifle that has a barrel that is shorter than the legal limit of 16", or an overall length of less than 26", or both.
There is also sbs, which is short barreled shotgun, a shotgun having a barrel less than the legal limit of 18", or an overall length of less than 26". Suppressors, to reduce the muzzle sound of a firearm, machineguns, pretty self explanatory, destructive devices, which is anything not a muzzleloader or shotgun having a bore of over 1/2" in diameter, which includes things like grenade launchers, mortars, and bazookas. And aow, or any other weapon. This is a catch all category that takes what doesnt fit anywhere else, but batfe feels must be controlled. Things like pen guns, cane guns, pistol type shotguns.
Federally, all of these can be legally owned, but must be registered. You pay a registration tax, and wait for a federal background check. It involves some paperwork, a bit more than a standard purchase. Fingerprints and pictures of yourself must be sent in. Also, the chief law enfrocement officer where you live must sign off on your paperwork. This is usually the biggest hurdle. If you can buy a gun, you can pass this as well. But, many localities have realized that if they refuse to sign off, it works as a sort of defacto ban, as the paperwork will not be approved. So they just refuse as a matter of course.
However, the law provides for other legal entities to own such items, such a corporation or trust. Other legal entities, not being persons, do not need fingerprints, pictures, or the le sign off. Corporations require constant paperwork upkeep yearly, so many people who cannot get the sign off will set up a trust, and use that. I have a trust, and this is why. My local le will not sign anything for anyone, across the board, and this is the way it has been for decades.

Hopefully this has shed some light, but it is a kind of cliffs notes version. If you want more info, i can get on the laptop and really type up a good description in its own thread.

[Sniper-T]

Wow! and here I thought that CAnadian laws were nuts. lol.

In fact, ours aren't too much different than what you outlined; other than the trust thing. If approved by Fed's than locals have to approve, although they may drag their feet a little.

[Gunfixr]

All this only applies to the nfa weapons mentioned above. The regular everyday stuff is sold with an instant background check, as far as federal goes.
State laws vary, about what one can and cannot have. Also, some states prohibit some of the nfa weapons mentioned above.
Maybe i will go.ahead and do a thread here soon. Some nfa stuff.actually has some good use for shtf.

[realist]

We have a little $20 tax stamp which is issued by our state that's needed to have SBR, suppressors or automatic weapons. Not a problem getting the paperwork from the Federal Government..................however the state just flat out says NO!!!!! So we just go without and stick with the 18 in non-suppressed semi-auto weapons. I can't afford to fire the full auto anyways. SBR or shotgun doesn't do well when shooting trap, people look at you funny. Lastly if I had a suppressor then my neighbors could not hear me shoot to complain........

[Caveman Survival]

Friends? I have a solid few who would come together if the situation dictated it, but a bunch of others who quite honestly would not be welcome. Sure they're fine now for watching the fights, or having a beer, but their skill set ends with their ability to process food into waste

This sums it up for me perfectly. I'm not sure I even have a solid few. They are a little to put there and rash... Even in canoe trips their headstrongness has put us into situations that could have easily been avoided had they listened to me. The rest... No matter how good of friends they are, I KNOW that they would prove to be little more than dead weights in any situation other than having a beer with.

I have met people through friends, groups, activities that looked like they could one day be a fit for any type of MAG, only to see, overtime, their deficiencies - whether it be following through on plans, or not living up to their own hype, or even not looking at situations from multiple directions. It's tough. I know I could not go it alone... For many of the reasons Sniper stated, as well as the fact that my own immediate family (wife, son, in laws, brother, mother and father) would probably be the death of me lol.

[Sniper-T]

^
Dude... we really should meet up one day for a beer... or a coffee, or something!

[Caveman Survival]

Sniper t... Or possibly the archery range!

[Kesephist]

I believe everyone can be useful, just not always trusted

Iosef Vissarionovich Dzughashivli said almost exactly the same thing.

[Sniper-T]

Sniper t... Or possibly the archery range!

My bad shoulder does not allow me to pull a bow any more, I sold mine

[Kesephist]

Thats exactly what I was doing I think that started this particular tangent in the thread. Kesephist doesnt agree to my point where I said I would use less experienced as cannon fodder if it means saving my children or fellow experienced preppers. I mean it, and I stand by it.

Incorrect, sir. I said I don't have to LIKE it. No one nor any group on this forum have enough money, influence or spine to hire someone to point a large enough gun at my head to MAKE me like it.

Oh, and if you detect that I've made a sudden list to the "ticked off" on here lately, you need only look over there at Jimmy New One and Illini, over there.

[mitunnelrat]

Whachoo talkin bout, Willis...er, Kesephist?

[Sniper-T]

I question that sometimes too...
lol

[jamesneuen]

Wait, am I Jimmy?

[Sniper-T]

If you are... I hate to think about what you been doing with your sausages...

:O

[jamesneuen]

Lol it's nobody's business what I do with my sausage! !

[Sniper-T]

given the Jimmy Dean thread... we know what your sausage has been doing... *shudder*

[mitunnelrat]

I think I see a little of what is going on here now, Kes, and if I'm correct its a load of bullshit. How long ago did this flare up and die once, already? Why is it starting again, all of a sudden? And why are third parties being called out here for comments in other threads?

I ask publicly so I may also ask your 3 amigos to allow me to work this out.

Now, please, enlighten me. In plain English and as many monosyllabic words as possible. What is the underlying problem, and why are approaching it this way?

[Sniper-T]

Damn... my attempts to de-rail and diffuse the situation went for naught...

[jamesneuen]

We tried.

[mitunnelrat]

Sorry fellas. My patience and tolerance for mickey mouse games have dropped below their accepted limits.

[Sniper-T]

poor mickey!

http://www.tekilaklub.com/inspyre/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/mickey-is-dead.jpg

[Kesephist]

I think I see a little of what is going on here now, Kes, and if I'm correct its a load of bullshit. How long ago did this flare up and die once, already? Why is it starting again, all of a sudden? And why are third parties being called out here for comments in other threads?

I ask publicly so I may also ask your 3 amigos to allow me to work this out.

I >have< three amigos here?


Now, please, enlighten me. In plain English and as many monosyllabic words as possible. What is the underlying problem, and why are approaching it this way?

I have real problems with ones that can so blithely say:


I believe everyone can be useful, just not always trusted

As I said, Iosef Vissarionovich Dzughashivli said almost exactly the same thing. History knows him as that oh-so-fetching character, Stalin.

Add to it Jimmy's questions about what I was set to do in some "how about this?" situations has done a grand job of giving me nightmares, of the waking up shouting and sweating variety. (3 hours' sleep in the past sixty.)

Not the sort of thing I am used to, not the thing I was set to cope with when I set foot on the prep path. And NOT the sort of thing to make me best friends of the guy that started it.

The worst part is having to be THANKFUL for it. If the shrinks are to be believed, nutjobs don't have bad dreams, they sleep like stones. Sane people are the ones with dreams and nightmares.

I'd not thought that this was part of being a solo. Guess I get to suck it up.

[mitunnelrat]

Thank you for the clarification. James is one "amigo" (for lack of a better term). I've identified Stormy and Illini as the other two. Am I incorrect on either?

I believe your contention with Stormy lies in this thread, correct? I have not found anything from Illini that may cause any. Will you explain his inclusion, please?

I will say that from an adminiatrative point of view your approach is raising red flags for me. I will expand upon that further after doing my due diligence in investigating this and after the completion of some pressing matters at home. Likely no earlier than tomorrow.

[jamesneuen]

One point has not been addressed in all this. A hateful one, and I am getting damned tired of being the stupid SOB that keeps kicking this sort of thing up in the several places that I frequent.

But it has to be done.

Levity aside, what do your several groups aim to do to those otherwise unthreatening souls who do not meet your several criteria?

Banish them, with what they were encountered with?

Banish them after stripping them of their things "for the greater good"?

Imprison them?

Execute them?

I'll candidly admit, I do not know what I would do. EE&BE, probably. Damn well will not farm it out, if it becomes needful to be Judge Lynch.

If I remember correctly it was you who broached the subject, I simply put it in more unsavory terms to elicit a deeper response. as below.

So prepping solo, what would you do when a family of 4 shows up randomly?


Ok now what if they refuse to leave? The father stands begging and pleading for food and shelter for his family while having nothing to contribute?

Or even better, what happens when the group of offroading hillbillies who got stuck decide that what you have should belong to them? Do you invite them to stay or take your chances being judge Judy and executioner?

You can lightly banter all day about "what ifs" but when things go south and I have to make a hard decision I have no idea how I'll sleep.

I've gotten involved in only one serious altercation so far. I ended up with two stab wounds and almost bleeding to death. He ended up with a broken nose, arm and 20 years. I slept like a baby that night in the ER and every night after.

Joseph Stalin was a high functioning sociopath at best. As I said earlier in this thread there is only one upside to that condition. They will survive at all costs and never lose a bit of sleep, exactly as you said. I am familiar with his speeches as well as those of Hitler, Teddy Roosevelt and Churchill. Everyone has something to teach. Some things you may just not want to learn.


Its kind of funny, welcome to the internet.
One of us types in our heart and soul, and then puts it up for the world.
Then, the rest get to interpret it.
It is literal, or figurative?
Sad, or happy?
Angry, or calm?
Just black and white words on a screen.
Not like a conversation in person, with facial expressions, body language, tone of voice.

Still, we herr pretty much slide along without issues.
Imagine how well we could get along in person.



Or, we would just think each other is a bunch of assholes, lol.

Gunfixr said it best^^^^ I never came to this site looking for easy answers and no confrontation. I want people to give me things I haven't thought of to see how I can roll with them. I want to be tested. I know that I've taken no offense and I highly doubt that Illini and Stormy have. I don't think there is a single person on this forum that I would not welcome with open arms.

[bacpacker]

Hey Jimmy, like the photo. Nice fish

[Kesephist]

Thank you for the clarification. James is one "amigo" (for lack of a better term). I've identified Stormy and Illini as the other two. Am I incorrect on either?

I believe your contention with Stormy lies in this thread, correct? I have not found anything from Illini that may cause any. Will you explain his inclusion, please?

I have no contention with Stormfeather.

Illini I regard rather little, save that it seems likely to me that he'd side with Jimmy. Can't hang a number or a name on it; just a feeling.


I will say that from an adminiatrative point of view your approach is raising red flags for me. I will expand upon that further after doing my due diligence in investigating this and after the completion of some pressing matters at home. Likely no earlier than tomorrow.

Do YOU have any solutions about this? Should a prepper be having doubts like this?

[Sniper-T]

I may be out of line here, and if so... I apologize profusely to our members who have served and granted me the right to sit back beside my fire with a rum and comment...

I believe that God gave us PTSS for a reason... I believe that it is his 'conscience' that he bestowed upon us. When 'we' make peace with him/ourselves we will have made peace with our individual PTSS. Sound stupid? Think about it... It really isn't. Ones who do not suffer from PTSS.. are the ones I worry about... for they, and they alone have no conscious! Truly, individuals to be feared!

A million years ago, a street person once asked me, "If he didn't die, what would have been the outcome?" "I would be dead" I answered. "yes you, and how many more?"

perspective!

[jamesneuen]

Ptss? Ptsd?

[Sniper-T]

up here it is a Syndrome... Down there a Disorder...

[jamesneuen]

Ah gotcha. Sorry.

[Kesephist]

I may be out of line here, and if so... I apologize profusely to our members who have served and granted me the right to sit back beside my fire with a rum and comment...

I believe that God gave us PTSS for a reason... I believe that it is his 'conscience' that he bestowed upon us. When 'we' make peace with him/ourselves we will have made peace with our individual PTSS. Sound stupid? Think about it... It really isn't. Ones who do not suffer from PTSS.. are the ones I worry about... for they, and they alone have no conscious! Truly, individuals to be feared!

A million years ago, a street person once asked me, "If he didn't die, what would have been the outcome?" "I would be dead" I answered. "yes you, and how many more?"

perspective!

The idea being that all this nightmare is PTSS?

I -did- serve under Reagen, but never saw combat. Nor anything that would cause me any trauma.

Being able to switch off the math part of my mind? Lovely thought, but I don't have that ability. If trying to put #s on a problem is causing all this ... I don't recall this happening after 9/11, and the ex cussed me out all day ,because I was doing kinetic energy figures under my breath, trying to figure out how many died. (the answer was, of course, ridiculously simple... Too Many.) Then, too, there were other variables in play. I wasn't tinnitic, then, as an example. Nor had I heard of prepping 14 years ago, or that I would be looking at it.

Wonder how Spencer Reid would do as a prepper?

[Sniper-T]

PTSD/S

is not specific!

it is a reaction to an incident!

you may have issues after a war effort... you may have issues after a peace keeping incident. you may have issues after cutting grass.

the more dramatic the incident, the greater the reaction...

imo.

[bacpacker]

The wife suffered from it for several years after her car wreck. It's a hard thing to understand and to learn to deal with. To her most any oncoming g car was a crash waiting to happen. Luckily symptoms went away over time.

[Caveman Survival]

I have NO idea where the fork in this thread's road appeared, but I'm gonna backtrack and head on back down the originally intended path...

I mentioned early on that my wife was meek and would rely on my decisions for what needed to be done. Well something (possibly living in Winnipeg) has changed her since my post back in February, and now she just wants to 'off' everybody. Granted she has become a lot more proactive in the prepping department, but I think that she has opened her eyes a little to the harsh realities that come up in true shtf scenarios. Just watching the news and seeing how mob mentality changes the game. Combine that with watching documentaries and sensationalist programming such as anything on NatGeo, or even the walking dead, has turned her into a raving lunatic lol. Now it's all "kill them, they are just going to come back and get you later!!!! KILL THEM!!! OH I AM SO MAD!!! WHY WONT THEY JUST KILL THEM!!!"

Now picture this coming from a 5' , 110lb filipina.

I'm scared folks.... Really scared lol.

I re-read this thread (in truth to find out how it went south) and saw a few posts that I wanted to make comment on...

First to Domeguy. Your scenario made me think really hard. And my response isn't because I like you, and feel compelled to answer this way... It's because it's how I truly think I would react to such a situation. I think anyone coming to my door in the same situation as you described would be welcome, providing they can contribute - while they are still able. In fact, even without the smoking hot nurse wife (I just assume because nurses are always smoking hot in my imagination), my door would still be open, under the same stipulations... That person contributes. Cooking, cleaning, TEACHING, anything of value. That's not to say my newly sparked wife won't try to kill you first... But I think it's important to try to hold on to as much humanity as possible. Will I make my family go without to help such a person... Not over the long term, but they will gain so much in aiding someone over the short term that small sacrifices are well worth it.

Second subject I want to address is the male/female question. I'm not huge on gender differentiation as it is (except football... My goodness ladies, just let us have ONE thing that is our own), and I think in shtf and the rebuilding after that it will be an even sillier distinction. If there is any shred of male-centric thinking left in me however, is that I would, personally, avoid putting women in hostile situations. Not because I don't think that they can handle it, it's because men can't. let's face it, women are treated poorly in today's society, never mind wrol. A guy taken prisoner will get beat and killed... A woman will be a lot worse.

It's just how i feel about it.

[Stormfeather]

Incorrect, sir. I said I don't have to LIKE it. No one nor any group on this forum have enough money, influence or spine to hire someone to point a large enough gun at my head to MAKE me like it.

Fair enough, you are correct, you dont have to like it, so I misspoke. But then again, what works for me, may not work for you, as that is in all things in life, not everyone sees things the same. As far as the money, influence, spine in pointing a gun to "make you like it", I do my own work, I never send amateurs to do a professionals job. But on the flip side of that coin, Im not trying to change your opinion at all. Im merely stating my position as I see how it works for the continued survival of my people. Hope this clarifys my position.



Oh, and if you detect that I've made a sudden list to the "ticked off" on here lately, you need only look over there at Jimmy New One and Illini, over there.

Actually, I havent detected much at all. I could really care less about a list of ticked off people as Im sure the members here would agree. lf I was to worry about ticking people off, I would worry about offending the women on this forum a hell of a lot more than I would the gentlemen. The women around here are the Heavens Angels personified, til you piss them off. Then its a new level of hell that I would be submitting myself to.

[Stormfeather]

I have NO idea where the fork in this thread's road appeared, but I'm gonna backtrack and head on back down the originally intended path...

I mentioned early on that my wife was meek and would rely on my decisions for what needed to be done. Well something (possibly living in Winnipeg) has changed her since my post back in February, and now she just wants to 'off' everybody. Granted she has become a lot more proactive in the prepping department, but I think that she has opened her eyes a little to the harsh realities that come up in true shtf scenarios. Just watching the news and seeing how mob mentality changes the game. Combine that with watching documentaries and sensationalist programming such as anything on NatGeo, or even the walking dead, has turned her into a raving lunatic lol. Now it's all "kill them, they are just going to come back and get you later!!!! KILL THEM!!! OH I AM SO MAD!!! WHY WONT THEY JUST KILL THEM!!!"

Now picture this coming from a 5' , 110lb filipina.

I'm scared folks.... Really scared lol.

I re-read this thread (in truth to find out how it went south) and saw a few posts that I wanted to make comment on...

First to Domeguy. Your scenario made me think really hard. And my response isn't because I like you, and feel compelled to answer this way... It's because it's how I truly think I would react to such a situation. I think anyone coming to my door in the same situation as you described would be welcome, providing they can contribute - while they are still able. In fact, even without the smoking hot nurse wife (I just assume because nurses are always smoking hot in my imagination), my door would still be open, under the same stipulations... That person contributes. Cooking, cleaning, TEACHING, anything of value. That's not to say my newly sparked wife won't try to kill you first... But I think it's important to try to hold on to as much humanity as possible. Will I make my family go without to help such a person... Not over the long term, but they will gain so much in aiding someone over the short term that small sacrifices are well worth it.

Second subject I want to address is the male/female question. I'm not huge on gender differentiation as it is (except football... My goodness ladies, just let us have ONE thing that is our own), and I think in shtf and the rebuilding after that it will be an even sillier distinction. If there is any shred of male-centric thinking left in me however, is that I would, personally, avoid putting women in hostile situations. Not because I don't think that they can handle it, it's because men can't. let's face it, women are treated poorly in today's society, never mind wrol. A guy taken prisoner will get beat and killed... A woman will be a lot worse.

It's just how i feel about it.

Caveman, Im going to surmise your reaction to your wifes sudden change in a few simple words. This is coming from a 1/2 Filipino, 1/2 Native American...

You married a filipino woman, Heart of Gold..Ruthless as Satan.

Good luck with that bro, they get meaner as they get older, trust me, my mom is 69, Grandma is 93, and they are the 2 angriest women I know. Sure they will feed ya if you show up, and they love their grandkids and bingo... but they are like a Asian Female Incredible Hulk.... dont make em angry, you wont like them when they're angry. Pass the Lumpia please.

[Stormfeather]

Thank you for the clarification. James is one "amigo" (for lack of a better term). I've identified Stormy and Illini as the other two. Am I incorrect on either?

I believe your contention with Stormy lies in this thread, correct? I have not found anything from Illini that may cause any. Will you explain his inclusion, please?

I will say that from an administrative point of view your approach is raising red flags for me. I will expand upon that further after doing my due diligence in investigating this and after the completion of some pressing matters at home. Likely no earlier than tomorrow.

What is this? Everyone is reading a Thesaurus now for bedtime reading? Remind me never to ever play scrabble with you people.

[jamesneuen]

I love scrabble!!!! I always get far too many Z's though

[Stormfeather]

I love scrabble!!!! I always get far too many Z's though

Those are "N"'s... you have them turned on their side.

[jamesneuen]

That explains a lot actually

[Caveman Survival]

Stormy... I'm aboriginal and I am well versed in Filipino culture for the better of 25 years so.... I know exactly what you are talking about lol. The worse part is they they have the most pleasant, yet evil way of holding grudges.

[Stormfeather]

Stormy... I'm aboriginal and I am well versed in Filipino culture for the better of 25 years so.... I know exactly what you are talking about lol. The worse part is they they have the most pleasant, yet evil way of holding grudges.

Oh.... so what you are saying .... is that you went into this relationship knowing full well how the Filipino Female mind works...

You Crazy .... What The Hell Was You Thinking? You got a death wish or something?

[mitunnelrat]

What is this? Everyone is reading a Thesaurus now for bedtime reading? Remind me never to ever play scrabble with you people.

I don't need a thesaurus, so yes, playing scrabble against me can be a tough loss for many people ;)

And you guys have it all wrong. The is your friend in Scrabble. It's the q that's a bitch. You can't turn it to any other purpose than fucking you.

(Better Stormy? I made sure to use small words and profanity to make my point, per my usual style)

[mitunnelrat]

Alright Kes, sorry about the delay. I started tapping out a reply yesterday and lost it to the mobile demons.

I'll start by saying we all, as preppers, have doubts of one sort or another. If we didn't, we'd simply be homesteaders, or "going green" ;)

All kidding aside though, we do worry. What sets us apart is our ability to discuss and find solutions to our concerns. Especially here. Its reality based discussion tempered by wit, dirty humor, and the occasional dispute any family experiences from time to time. And make no mistake, I regard the men and women here as my extended family.

As such, I do all I can to provide a stable home here for them, and get a little protective in doing so. I think the discussions you broach, and the thought you provoke, is great. Just bear in mind that we are a diverse group, and will therefore contribute in diverse ways. Especially on tough subjects.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Stalin, by no means a role model for the average person, is actually correct, just as a broken clock is twice a day, and everyone is useful, thought not everyone should be trusted. Take here, for example. If we are open, we're able to learn something from everyone here. From some we learn what to do, from others, we learn what not to do. They are all therefore useful, though not all are trustworthy. This, my extended family, is no different in that fact than my immediate, blood relatives. Just give that some thought for a moment, and see if it doesn't improve the time you spend here.

If for some reason, after this period of reflection, you find you simply cannot abide a certain member or another here, we have an "ignore" feature. All you have to do is visit a member's profile page, and click the link on the left hand side of the screen. No drama, no hassle, no more posts that offend you, and no staff member breathing fire as s/he wonders just what in the fuck you're up to.

On that latter note, I am still not entirely satisfied with your responses thus far. To say you cannot put a name or a number on a feeling, after you have definitively put a name to a man, does not sit well with me. The fact that you revisit a contentious debate and bring up an issue you have with other members does not sit well with me either. There is plenty of room to debate and contend with the information anyone proposes here. There is no room at all to sling mud directly at a member because you don't like what they say.

Now, with all that said, I'm going to withdraw from further, open discussion of this. Its taking time away from our usual festivities and fact finding missions. Feel free to pm me if you'd like to discuss this further. If not, I look forward to seeing more thought provoking debate ensues in the future, and any manner of smart ass responses I can steal and use to mind fuck someone else with later.

The floor, ladies and gentlemen, is open.

[Sniper-T]

And back to our regularly scheduled programming...

A dab of whiteout turns that damn Q into a high priced 'O' or 'C' pretty quick. just try to play it and move on quick. When your turn is done, peel the stickers off your Rubik's cube!

[Stormfeather]

And back to our regularly scheduled programming...

A dab of whiteout turns that damn Q into a high priced 'O' or 'C' pretty quick. just try to play it and move on quick. When your turn is done, peel the stickers off your Rubik's cube!

Its not cheating if you dont get caught right? :cool:

[Sniper-T]

As long as your heart and soul are ok with it...

[Kesephist]

And now a shove back over to something like the topic at hand.

In the past two or three days, there's been this dreadful feel that all the work of prepping and organizing and so forth is going to be put into play.

Soon.

I can't stick a 100% label on it, nor a time bracket. Am I the only one with this, just having a case of middle aged jitters?

[bacpacker]

It seems like there is something new everyday. I keep expecting the ball to drop but thankfully so far it hasn't. I just don't see anyway it won't at some point. I'm not much of one to put dates on something.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

DAMN! I'm gone for a little "Fix my Shit" Ops and you guys got shit all FUBAR.................looks like I'm going to have to go all the way back and see popped the satchel on the train rail. I'll be back after assessing the situation...............this ought to be good.

[jamesneuen]

Lol.

[Stormfeather]

lol... typical puddle pirate... weeks late and wanting to take charge once they get here!



yea yea...I know... BWRR is probably already got me in his sights as im typing this!

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

Personally, I like that LH and then K called us all out on this.

we all know that chicks are the fairer sex, and need to be coddled, cared for and cushed!

'cause basically... if we don't treat them 'right' they will kick our collective asses!

rofl!

peeps are peeps in my book... if you want to be part of my group... you pull your weight! Sex is irrelevant!

Well... no... sex is um... :) ... GENDER is irrelevant!!!

Take it from the man who knows, don't forget spoiled. However we have a two way street, In return I get a "Hottie".....a lot a lovin, someone who can cover my six and some really nice toys for B-days and X-mas, oh yeah brings to the table....... canning and cooking of course. What's that she always says, " I can shoot your ass and I can sew you up........my choice!" Women can do it.........Hold that thought, I have to finish the rest of this thread.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

TAKE CHARGE? TAKE CHARGE? Whadda ya stupid? I must be stupid for reading 20 pages..........

OK so we got "Morgan" with his rubber stick who won't kill anyone cause "Every life is precious" and who's going to go it alone across the country kickin ass. Then we got the "Gov-na" up there in ilini???? Who's going to build Trump's square/wall whatever.....I reckon. Best I can figure's "No Tresspassin" up air cause you'll get smoked and they'll take yer wife an kids......? Could be an opt out for alot of guys, good insurance policy really. "Hell we'll tak'em to Stormy's, dump'em off and run like hell." If you make it you'll live with being a coward the rest of your life. If not you'll die knowing they'll be taken care of. Hmmmmmmm? When do I get to come up and hunt cowards? OK, I'm derailed.....Oh wait, and "Jimmie Neutron" started it all just bi being curious, and we know what that leads to right? Sausage!

Best I can figure....stay away from Stormy's, he'll shoot your stick off. "Jimmie's" a closet Sausage case, and "Morgan" can't get anybody to listen to him no matter how long, hard, high he waves his rubber talking stick. That sound about right? Sounds like SNAFU to me, one big happy family.

OK no really, I read through 20 fuckin pages and for what? And what the hell does PTSD have to do with any of this crap? That's just something that happens to some of life's "lucky" people, guess what, they're memories, they don't go away. That's the way it goes, so give me a cheery aye aye and carry on smartly, at's what we do.

Everybody's going to have way of doing business, I think this thread has sparked some people thinking, GOOD! Keep thinking cause people truly suck! When the S truly does HTF you will find the worst in them BTDT.................it is then you will find what you're truly incapable of or maybe even capable of doing. But don't go fishing in this pond for an answer only you can answer when that situation finds you facing down that demon..... or angel that you have to drop the hammer on. This is one you'll have to choke on yourself. Either way, we can always compare notes, share ideas, and slap each other around from time to time.

Oh, and Little Jimmie's the "Puddle Pirate" at's a Coastie thing Swab. Navy had to know how to swim, Coast Guard could wade back to shore.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

Now going back to the subject matter at hand.............GROUPS.........I have been through two groups, make that three in the past two years. Here's my "problems" hell and most of these guys were military. Shame though, the kids were young and eager and ready to go and eat this shit up. Dads, not so much.

1. Officers - 90% lie and are just down right untrustworthy, these ARE cannon fodder. They all failed the test, they lied.
2. Chain of Command- either you have one or you don't. The group will cease to function without a solid COC.
3. Reliability- Nobody shows up on time or at all, this is just one of many things on the subject.
4. Motivation- Self explanatory
5. All talk- Again self explanatory, but I didn't know how meek and puny I was till I met these men.

I currently assist two groups on occasion but that's as far as it goes. They have no plan nor are they willing to get together and do it. So, that's what I'm looking at.

As far as Jimmie's questions went, if It were me on the road alone, I wouldn't be ON the road in the first place. I wouldn't trust anyone, PERIOD! Might take a few years for that to change..............maybe. So doom on you, I might be the one you should be worried about, cause you could be the idiot at large. OK, I'm done!

[izzyscout21]

Now going back to the subject matter at hand.............GROUPS.........I have been through two groups, make that three in the past two years. Here's my "problems" hell and most of these guys were military. Shame though, the kids were young and eager and ready to go and eat this shit up. Dads, not so much.

1. Officers - 90% lie and are just down right untrustworthy, these ARE cannon fodder. They all failed the test, they lied.
2. Chain of Command- either you have one or you don't. The group will cease to function without a solid COC.
3. Reliability- Nobody shows up on time or at all, this is just one of many things on the subject.
4. Motivation- Self explanatory
5. All talk- Again self explanatory, but I didn't know how meek and puny I was till I met these men.

I currently assist two groups on occasion but that's as far as it goes. They have no plan nor are they willing to get together and do it. So, that's what I'm looking at.

As far as Jimmie's questions went, if It were me on the road alone, I wouldn't be ON the road in the first place. I wouldn't trust anyone, PERIOD! Might take a few years for that to change..............maybe. So doom on you, I might be the one you should be worried about, cause you could be the idiot at large. OK, I'm done!


I'm going to have to second this motion.

[mitunnelrat]

I'll third it, and I'm intelligent enough to realize I'm guilty of at least two of the above problems, and Ive been one that hasn't been the most committed for quite some time. "OBE", as I've seen it said in the past. I still believe networking, organizing, and grouping to be the single most important thing we can do in prepping.

Time to go back through all of the discussion on this again and refocus.

[Gunfixr]

And now a shove back over to something like the topic at hand.

In the past two or three days, there's been this dreadful feel that all the work of prepping and organizing and so forth is going to be put into play.

Soon.

I can't stick a 100% label on it, nor a time bracket. Am I the only one with this, just having a case of middle aged jitters?

I don't know, as I kind of don't pay so much attention to it as I used to. Really, I'll never be as prepared as I wish, so it's kind of irrelevant. I'll have to just "wing it" with at least something.
Really, with the amount of BS coming out of everybody, and especially those entrusted with the running of this country, I've come to the conclusion that we're just fucked, and there's not a damn thing to do about it. It's just still too early to "shoot the bastards".
But it's getting closer.

This, of course, does not include the colony, as we all see what is happening, and we all will be dragged down along with those who refuse to remember history to repeat it.


This is my first post from the computer in quite awhile. The changes look good.
Shame I'm mostly three sheets to the wind.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

Yeah dude, I mean seriously that's the first time you ever said "Fucked", so alcohol promotes honesty. Ya told us how ya really real. I'm with you though Gunner.

Trust.......that's the word. I shared some potato ham chowder with a guy on a freezin ass cold fuckin day once. I trust that guy. There's a few others to but they're still on one hand, and one of'ems dead. That's bad.....trust is a hard thing to earn, I'm talkin about my and my family's life trust............it's a two way street.

[Gunfixr]

I'm not against cussing, but I try not to overuse it. I want it to make the point that I used it for. Plus, I try to be nice for the ladies, as much as I can, reasonably.

I have very few people I can really trust, as in with my life.
I think I have some more lately, as I've started hanging with a different crowd.
But the ones from before, well, most just think I'm crazy for prepping. Said shit like "if it gets crazy, I'm coming to your house".

Ya know, my response was "why, you wanna get shot by someone you know?"

They didn't seem to appreciate that, not one bit.

I'm working on getting out to the country, so it won't matter so much. Sure, someone will make it out there. But, where I am now, I'm really thinking half eaten corpses and heads on sticks in the yard is what it will take to get even some of them to leave me alone.

[bacpacker]

I agree with fixer, we are so screwed. Highly unlikely we'll get out of it unscathed.

As far as trust goes, there are only a handful I would trust with my life and none are near me. A few are folks on here. Close by my neighbor and his kid and dad I feel are people I would count on. But until time comes no way to know. I don't have the benifit of Military ties to build from so personal ties/experiences are best I can do. Long term I do plan on moving further out, but for now circumstances dictate for the time being

[eagle326]

I agree with fixer, we are so screwed. Highly unlikely we'll get out of it unscathed.

As far as trust goes, there are only a handful I would trust with my life and none are near me. A few are folks on here. Close by my neighbor and his kid and dad I feel are people I would count on. But until time comes no way to know. I don't have the benifit of Military ties to build from so personal ties/experiences are best I can do. Long term I do plan on moving further out, but for now circumstances dictate for the time being


Son :
I hope this doesn't come over the wrong way. Never ever trust anyone 100% to cover your 6!! Up to and including me.
Military training or not ; survival is the name of the game and that's what war is about. just as you've hunted wild game which usually is smarter ; man is no different. Only by being battle tested in fire fights will you know who will cover your 6 even if it means dying so you may live.

You don't really need to have military experience to survive. I know many of people called hillbillies & rednecks who do much of the same things the military does.
Why because those before them learned from tracking and hunting wild game in order to sustain their lives plus the knowledge brought to them from family & friends who were in the military.

Fear not that you don't know
Fear only that which you do not hear
And fear that which you refuse to learn
For this will be your demise :

[robsdak]

Son :
I hope this doesn't come over the wrong way. Never ever trust anyone 100% to cover your 6!! Up to and including me.
Military training or not ; survival is the name of the game and that's what war is about. just as you've hunted wild game which usually is smarter ; man is no different. Only by being battle tested in fire fights will you know who will cover your 6 even if it means dying so you may live.

You don't really need to have military experience to survive. I know many of people called hillbillies & rednecks who do much of the same things the military does.
Why because those before them learned from tracking and hunting wild game in order to sustain their lives plus the knowledge brought to them from family & friends who were in the military.

Fear not that you don't know
Fear only that which you do not hear
And fear that which you refuse to learn
For this will be your demise :

eagle, really? you have to trust one person... i agree, trust is a tough thing to earn. as for me, i trust most as far as i can pick them up and throw them... but there are a few that i would have no issues in trusting with my life. this one is going to blow your mind, but i have never met him in person. just talked on the phone, email and texts and trust him with no qualms.

as for you guys on here, i am sure, if push came to shove, you would welcome me. i would welcome you.

edit: i hope this comes off in the spirit i meant it.

[eagle326]

eagle, really? you have to trust one person... i agree, trust is a tough thing to earn. as for me, i trust most as far as i can pick them up and throw them... but there are a few that i would have no issues in trusting with my life. this one is going to blow your mind, but i have never met him in person. just talked on the phone, email and texts and trust him with no qualms.

as for you guys on here, i am sure, if push came to shove, you would welcome me. i would welcome you.

edit: i hope this comes off in the spirit i meant it.


I totally agree Rob. So let me explain a bit further. I do have a few close people here whom I trust and for those on here they also. By reading between the lines and actions one can discern trust.
Now as for the 100% trust thing ; It's probably just me but I go by the 99.9% rule. I leave that 1/10 % out there because no matter how well you know someone you don't know everything that's happened in their lives. Thus I watch and listen for anything that could cause them to not operate at full capacity. And I would expect the same from other people towards me.

By doing this it's my belief that you can negate most problems or weaknesses before they happen. So in effect I do trust 100% . The minus 1/10 % is just my way of hopefully keeping each other on track and focused. Hope this explains it a little better brother.
I should have included this in my original post.

Eagle

[jamesneuen]

Until you experience something that would truly break someone, you never can give that last little bit. I have a ton of friends, each of whom has earned different levels of trust,

Borrow my tools level,
Borrow my car level
Tell a secret level
Watch my kids level,
Stay at my house unattended level
Operate a gun around me level

Not really in that order but you get the gist. Nobody really has my complete trust like you are talking. That's something that I don't think will be earned in current environment.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

Anyone who argues that they could survive indefinitely on their own is a fool in my opinion but to each their own.

So I pose this to the fine group of like minded individuals out there,

1. How would you decide to allow people into your group? (ability to sustain them, needed skills, reproduction/gene pool, or simple companionship if a single person)

2. What would your "initiation" be? (questions, proof of values/skills,)

3. How long would it be before you trusted them or truly relied on them without graft or leverage of some kind?

4. What other concerns would you have?

OK, so we're back on track here now. "James" has determined a level of hierarchy for vetting now.

"I have a ton of friends, each of whom has earned different levels of trust,

Borrow my tools level,
Borrow my car level
Tell a secret level
Watch my kids level,
Stay at my house unattended level
Operate a gun around me level"

See what happens when I take charge? BOO-HAA-HA-HA-ha-ha-ha!

You're welcome...........if all else fails, neutralize the liability.

[realist]

So who would be in the group?

First and foremost would be family, my side that is. This would total about 20 without young kids. The big thing is everyone is spread out all over the state, with one living outside the state. I have one sister who lives on an 8,000 acre ranch I don’t think she will be coming our way. However her son lives up by us and he would stay with us along with his girlfriend who on board too. I have another sister who lives about 3 hours away, they live on 30 acres with their grown daughter. Their son is about 10 minutes away from them so they would be a tight small group. They have recently approached me to conduct firearms training so I hope to bring them up to speed by summer time. The other two sisters, well I am not planning for them, we will leave it at that. As for my wife’s side I kind of look at them like a nice parasites.

So who outside the family? There are lots who of people I know and trust. The big thing is since we are a semi-rural area they would probably stay where they are at. I come a LEO background along with most of the people I know. Most of us in this profession have the feeling we can take care of ourselves. My neighbors are into farming, construction and heavy equipment so I have a good selection. I do have a fall back location about 15 miles north at a 1,600 acre cattle ranch.

There is one other group of 6 who we meet about 4 to 6 times a year to go camping and shooting/ They would be coming from a distance and would hold their own weight if they showed up.

So how do I vet people? I have to know them. They would be shooters. They would have to have a skills, I would put a high value on farmers. They have to bring their own food.

My biggest issue is food. If you take just my family of say 20 and feed two cups of rice a day then that would be 20 pounds a day that would be 7,300 pounds of food a year. This far out reaches our ability to store enough food. We have a garden which is huge but would not sustain a group this size. My goal this year is to use the tractor to prep about another 1 ½ acres and get it so it would be easily converted to grow. This would be by turning it over putting on amendments and then tilling them. I will be planting green manure which will be chopped each year and tilled under. I have started a compost pile which will result in about 20 to 30 yards of material next year. However I am under no delusions in a major long term event this would be enough. I would hope it would give us enough to go to plan B.

As for neutralizing the liability short term we would have to deal with it, long term it would leave one way or another………….

[bacpacker]

Son :
I hope this doesn't come over the wrong way. Never ever trust anyone 100% to cover your 6!! Up to and including me.
Military training or not ; survival is the name of the game and that's what war is about. just as you've hunted wild game which usually is smarter ; man is no different. Only by being battle tested in fire fights will you know who will cover your 6 even if it means dying so you may live.

You don't really need to have military experience to survive. I know many of people called hillbillies & rednecks who do much of the same things the military does.
Why because those before them learned from tracking and hunting wild game in order to sustain their lives plus the knowledge brought to them from family & friends who were in the military.

Fear not that you don't know
Fear only that which you do not hear
And fear that which you refuse to learn
For this will be your demise :

Eagle, I do understand what you are saying, the later explanation further described it. And I agree, it takes a lot to give trust to folks and it's so easy to break it.

You are right to that Mil. experience is not a pass by any means. I know some who have served that are nothing but pure trash, same as in other areas of society. But by and large they are typically good folk. Much the same as farmers have learned how to accomplish tasks, up to and including defending against threats. Just not so much against an OpFor. I think the biggest thing lacking is a deep understanding of tactics and operating as a unit.

For all of us though, without already having a group in place, it will end up coming down to scenario as to what we will be able to make it thru, regardless of prep level. Somethings are just beyond our control no matter what we try and do/learn. All we can do is all we can do, then the chips will fall where they will and we are left to deal with it.

[eagle326]

BP
The day shall come when the sun will rise in the east and bring forth with it all the previous signs shown unto us.
And it will be that day for all of us who are awake as to the mission before us if we should desire to retain our freedom. We as a colony will have hard choices to make and how we may group up to survive. I have all the confidence with in my soul that believes this small band of misfits ; crazies ; loonies and Alpha type assholes to the world will give the world something to think about and fear. If for no other reason than they don't think we have a lick of common sense . Which is good because none of us have common sense by their standards. Well other than me because self told me I was normal and to blend in so we could keep an eye on you guys and gals so you don't drift too far off into the rabbit hole.

But I'm gonna need that damn hover board Stormy was talking about just to keep up with all you damn young heathens. Grumpus Maximus will be head Sergeant Major just because he's old. ;)

[bacpacker]

Well Eagle, I have to disagree with one thing you said, if I understand what you said correctly. Common sense! From reading what various folks on here have posted on various topics over the years, I think this group has a large degree of common sense by and large. I agree common sense is not very common, but when you find folks who have it, treasure and use it to full advantage. being able to figure things out and looking at things from a rational perspective goes a LONG way.
life is so much harder for those who don't.

[eagle326]

Well Eagle, I have to disagree with one thing you said, if I understand what you said correctly. Common sense! From reading what various folks on here have posted on various topics over the years, I think this group has a large degree of common sense by and large. I agree common sense is not very common, but when you find folks who have it, treasure and use it to full advantage. being able to figure things out and looking at things from a rational perspective goes a LONG way.
life is so much harder for those who don't.

OOOPS!!! I meant to type in common sense as the world sees it . Which we know to be collective stupidity on their part. My mind is willing but sometimes my fingers don't cooperate. Going to have a one on one talk with them son. :eek:

Went back and edited the post. Hope my fingers obeyed me this time.

[Gunfixr]

I like james' vetting list, it's pretty close to my own. My wife was quite upset several years ago to find out that I pretty much trust no one fully. See, I pretty much never ask for any help, due to this. No mil experience, but I grew up being stabbed in the back by people calling me friend, and then working in an environment where your co-workers will smile and offer help, and then talk shit about you behind your back until you got into some sort of problem.
The bosses were of the type that if you died on station, they would just push your corpse far enough out of the way to get someone else on it.
By now I have a pretty piss-poor attitude.
By now, I don't trust shit, except that I will be screwed in the deal.

Now, over the past 8yrs or so, many things have been better. But, there were 30yrs (figure I was at least 10 before it went south) of bad before that, so old habits are nowhere close to gone.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

Which means you realize just how many more (people like that) there will be when things get bad. Not to pour gravy on your ice cream......Hmmmm? But I concur with your "experiences" so far. So there will, could, should...... hell, we won't know till it starts. It's just a matter of when, hell I might die before it does. But it least I will be ready in my head. The rest is out of my control. I'll never have enough this, or that, I'll should have been here or there. I should have done this or that, but I do know one thing I'll never leave behind or lose.........my head. But I think I'm pretty good on some other stuff to.

[Stormfeather]

OK, so we're back on track here now. "James" has determined a level of hierarchy for vetting now.

"I have a ton of friends, each of whom has earned different levels of trust,

Borrow my tools level,
Borrow my car level
Tell a secret level
Watch my kids level,
Stay at my house unattended level
Operate a gun around me level"

See what happens when I take charge? BOO-HAA-HA-HA-ha-ha-ha!

You're welcome...........if all else fails, neutralize the liability.

Myself, I have a tendency to narrow these vetting standards to even a smaller circle.

Mine are... I have my network of friends, and I have my circle of friends. My "circle" can operate a firearm around me without my having to look over my shoulder, watch my kids, keep a secret, and would bury a body with no questions asked. The rest are in my network of friends. Those in my circle know it, and strive to keep it that was as much as I strive to keep myself up to their standards. I expect no less from them, and them from me.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

Hey, James had the answer all the time, I just "extracted" it out of him, he just didn't know it was in there all the time. I was just quoting him there I don't know how to do all that multiple cut and paste shit. They didn't teach me that in the neutralization portion of the class.

I wish I had a circle..........mine's more like shoveling chicken shit into a tornado. Ooooooh, there'll be shots comin from all directions.........at me......... till help shows up.......maybe..... All is lost, all is lost................

But back to the group thing, so far my luck has been this SHIT...........and be best described by the the characters of a movie or two. "Down Periscope" I did a tour as a Company Commander (drill instructor) in the Navy. Did 12 companies in the 3.5 yrs I was there, but these guys were like a night mare. The company that could never be trained, a pre-cast mind that can't be modified in any way. SOS (Stuck on stupid) oh and some were already military so that really made it better. They already know how......uh huh.

#1 WE SHOULD ALREADY KNOW IS TRUST


SO I THINK #2 SHOULD BE ARE THEY TRAINABLE? Can they learn anything in their stubborn old/young ass age? Are they fuckin receptive? Are they mentally defective? Seriously if they are they become a liability, family members, serious liability and will take a shitload of management depending on the severity. Hate to bring it up but, facts are facts. Might be something you are faced, no you will have to deal with. Tuck that one away for Mr. Murphy.

#3 ASSETS and LIABILTIES, what do they bring to the table? Determine your level of hierarchy, what as in "what type of WHO" does your group need to survive? How many? IF you have the luxury......shit can the rest. If you don't, you will have to plan on depleting all your shit rapidly and being over run by shitty ass people who will kill you and take your women and children and do unimaginable things that I would have no hesitation in killing them for. Oh but you screwed that one up. Oh did I mention Mr. Murphy? He's here again....... yes asset........or liability, check.

#4 HOW BAD DOES YOUR LOCATION SUCK? Welllll? What's the group gonna do, hang out at your house? What's your game plan for current FUBAR location? CAN YOU TRUST EVERYONE TO BE THERE? So you've got a BOL, you've trained you've planed, executed drills, things are great, you guys have this great place. You even loaded it all with stores/supplies, it's a real dang compound! Well the SHTF, you and your kin gather your shit and git! You arrive at the BOL and guess what, somebody radied the compound and took all the shit. (TRUST) No it was Mr. Murphy! OK so your buddies took all the shit and nobody showed up but you and yours. I guess you were a real DICK! Oh that was my story, anyway. Say you show up and you're looking down the barrels of people you don't even know, yeah they took your shit alright and these ain't your buddies. Mr. Murphy! No Dumb Ass OPSEC! One of you assholes has spilled the beans.........OK so what's the plan?

Here's the plan, Mr. Murphy is always listening, always watching and waiting to pounce! AND HE WILL, so what ever you do, what ever you say. You better have a contingency, you better pay attention to that "feeling" it's there for a reason.
Cross train, cross train, cross train, I can't say it enough. The more you know about and can do each others job, the more you function as a team. If one falls the other fills without missing a beat.

I'm gonna stop for now......got more broke shit, should have took pictures of the Hydraulic pump and electric motor I just rebuilt for the dump bed on the dually. That was FUBAR...it works now I could have done a whole damn thread on that one.

[Kesephist]

Exactly how OPSEC-sensitive are these musings and standards?

BWRR13: "You better have a contingency, you better pay attention to that "feeling", it's there for a reason."

Utterly true. Gibbs #40 for damn sure.

[realist]

BWR good point regarding the BOL. Will it be there when you get there. Or better yet do you just make it a habit of driving up each time you visit. Or do you get out before you come in sight of the location and do a recon. Is your equipment secure from others, i.e. in a cache. I know everyone should be trustful but then when you are dealing with family you all know what you tell your one relative will go viral in about six seconds after it is said. It is easy to say you will just write them off but then it is just like the one with the liability. You will have to deal with it treat is as such, a liability. I just hope this person has some skills to offset the liability.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

"Exactly how OPSEC-sensitive are these musings and standards?"

Guess that depends on how much you value your family's lives and yours. But you are the one that's going to go it alone across the country so you're GTG right?

Trust.............I can't preach it enough. I found that there are very simple tests to find out how well or even if you can trust someone.
One is just a simple piece of information. When given to that individual, will they guard it or will they deceive you and give it away and then lie about it. You'd be surprised at how many people give up that piece of information. A simple thing like an email address or a phone #. There goes the neighborhood...............Simply put, trust is a life and death issue with me, BTDT.

Yes, OPSEC is important! If a person can't handle a simple little thing like an email address. Than he can't handle knowing where I keep my family safe. Then there's the family, hell I can't even tell some of them where I might take them just to keep them and us safe.

[Kesephist]

But you are the one that's going to go it alone across the country so you're GTG right?

Across the country? Nah, no car or other transport. When I'm settled in, it's for the duration.

Good to go? I should either laugh or cry... I should have been tooling up since that foul day in 2008. Only within the past year... and I hope I didn't shilly-shally too much. Extremely awkward to ask All Hell to hold off breaking loose for another week...

Besides...


Anyone who argues that they could survive indefinitely on their own is a fool in my opinion but to each their own.






Trust.............I can't preach it enough. I found that there are very simple tests to find out how well or even if you can trust someone.
One is just a simple piece of information. When given to that individual, will they guard it or will they deceive you and give it away and then lie about it. You'd be surprised at how many people give up that piece of information. A simple thing like an email address or a phone #. There goes the neighborhood...............Simply put, trust is a life and death issue with me, BTDT.

Ah. A Canary Trap.

My example is not quite the same thing... but it has applications.

One one of my precious metals websites, I was asked to take a bulk delivery of PM meant for me, the guy that bankrolled the buy of the PM, and a fair number of participants. I was to break it down and re-ship the PM to the participants.

The snappers:

This all took place during the maelstrom known as the Christmas delivery period.

The delivery driver for the area is notorious for tardiness and not following instructions like getting signatures.

I had not before ( and still have not now ) met any of these people whose PM's I was handling.

The chances for fouling up and flat out larceny were considerable. At least two of the individuals I was delivering to flat out hate my guts, think I'm a fascist, and should be shot, hung and/or locked up.

All was delivered timely and to the picky satisfaction of all the participants.

Most of all, this was not the first time. Just the largest.

[Socalman]

The wife and I have discussed a few contingencies when SHTF. We are in the suburbs, but also own a small mountain vacation place that is a little more rural. It is, under normal circumstances a 90 minute drive for us. Who knows what it could be like to get there after a major disturbance, i.e. earthquake followed by riots and looting? What would happen if we were there vacationing when SHTF? We have enough food and basic supplies for perhaps 2 weeks but the only firearm is a 12ga. and a few boxes of shot in various sizes. It is not in a highly defensible position if needed.

Our permanent home is, at least in a semi-defensible location and pretty well stocked. Unless we were to be under a chemical or biological threat, we would stay here. A few of our neighbors are of the same thought process as we are. I do have some concern about how much family might want to bug out to our home. We are within 10 miles of almost 35 family, counting kids. My own kids and grandkids are welcome. Some of the in-laws might be welcome depending on what the bring and offer. At least one group will be turned away.

[Socalman]

FINDING LIKE MINDED PEOPLE - Without violating

Obviously one does not just go out and advertise "I have enough food and water stored to last a year. Included is the means to protect my investment and I have X in communications' capability." So, how do you find like minded people with whom you may group when SHTF? I do not claim to to have the perfect answer, but will let you know what how I have have learned and done.

#1 - You have to at least know your neighbors by sight and name. In some areas this may actually be a difficult thing as the neighborhood changes fast, people work long hours and keep to themselves. Find a way. I am fortunate that in my immediate area people live here for years before moving on. Talk to them and listen to learn.

#2 - When we have the National Night Out things in the summer, almost 100% of the families will be represented. Yes, I have missed when we were out of town but we do meet and greet each other. At those times, we meet in someone's front yard, it changes every year, and share a picnic dinner. We will grill up some burgers and dogs and people relax and get to know one another. - Listen to what people say.

#3 - The city always has some officials at the meeting and they provide basic pamphlets on things like animal control, law enforcement, being prepared for emergencies such as wildfire or earthquake. I always watch for people who are taking the "preparedness pamphlets." If I have not previously built any sort of relationship with those people I make it a point to start talking to them. Eventually I mention how the pamphlet on preparedness has some decent "basic information." Depending on how they respond, I may say something like "the state and FEMA people talk about having water for 3 days, but I would want to be ready for a little more. At lest a week. Sometimes the body language gives you a bit of a clue, or someone may respond with a remark such as "A week is hardly enough." LISTEN to what they say and how they say it.

4 - We are in a hillside area and have all sorts of wildlife visit us, coyote, bears, mountain lion on occasion, and deer. I have made remarks about "If it were deer season and I had license, I could put a little meat on the table." Often times, peoples response to that give you an idea how they feel about guns. - LISTEN

5 - Ever talk to your neighbors about local law enforcement? Make a remark about how long it may take to get LE when there is a problem such as a prowler or break in. (We have almost zero in our area, knock on wood) You may hear someone tell you that they are ready to protect the family. LISTEN to their words.

6 - You might tell someone that you are looking at a security system for your home, mention the name of a company in which you are interested. When someone tells you they have 1911 SECURITY or Smith and Wesson, there are some positive clues!

7 - Which of your neighbors has a decent garden? Many of us in the area grow our own "specialty" veggies and will share with others. You begin to find out who cans or dehydrates to store for the future. - LISTEN

By following these kinds of things I know a pretty good amount about who else on the street has preps. I have not divulged much of my own info, because my intent is to LISTEN to others.

[bacpacker]

Key words there, Socal
LISTEN

Means more than a whole lot of folks ever. consider.

[Domeguy]

All very good key points Socalman.

[Gunfixr]

There's reasons we have two ears, but only one mouth.

[Sniper-T]

Excellent post Socal!

I concur completely. People love to talk if you let them. a lot can be learned by listening; and more by an appropriate word or two to encourage them to continue talking.

One of my favourite tricks when talking with someone 'new' or in a group situation, is to simply pull out my pocket knife, and clean my nails or trimming a loose thread. Reactions like "Holy Shit! What are you doing with a knife?" or "Cool blade, check this one out" really set the tone for how long I'll even listen to them.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

All forms of "gathering intell", ya'll be thinkin like a bunch a "spooks" in no time yet. Be like the Cold War days all over again! All of this stuff is "need to know" in other words. IF YOU'RE SERIOUS ABOUT THIS SHIT, YOU NEED TO KNOW. You might want to know what the pulse is in your neighborhood, town, community, group, no matter how "feint" you need to know. Take notes now, talk to your significant other and compare those notes with theirs. Now what?...............back to trust.

[bacpacker]

I have had to take a couple classes at work that is suppose to help me be a better supervisor. Not sure it helped much with that, but some of the stuff they taught was active listening. Like T mention, a key word or phrase here and there can draw out more than you could ever realize. But even more important is to be able to pick up on certain keys the folks you are talking to give. This varies greatly from person to person, but once you start seeing folks open up, it gives great clues how to keep things rolling. Body language goes a long ways, particularly when detecting lies folks are telling. Normally someone lying will have dead tells. One guys that used to work for me would start tugging on his earlobe when he was lying. I confirmed that multiple times before he was fired. Eventually lots of folks picked up on that. Lots of time liars will not look you in the eye and will be fiddling with their finger, constantly shifting their weight back and forth on there feet.

[Domeguy]

"Yes, OPSEC is important! If a person can't handle a simple little thing like an email address. Than he can't handle knowing where I keep my family safe. Then there's the family, hell I can't even tell some of them where I might take them just to keep them and us safe.

Thank you for trusting me with your email address, and I swear I will never give it out to anyone. Just the same as the time I swore I would never tell anyone where we buried that stuff behind my house about 30' north of the big oak tree, under the round brown rock...not the flat brown rock though...that's where we buried the other stuff I swore to keep quiet about.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

Right......but what does all that mean? (British accent)

[Domeguy]

Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more Squire. A nods as good as a wink to a blind bat.

[Socalman]

What tends to happen is that too often people, myself included, are thinking of what we are going to say next instread of listening to what the other person is saying. You have to WORK at keeping your mouth shut and listening.

[bacpacker]

So true. It is hard to do.

[Kesephist]

All forms of "gathering intell", ya'll be thinkin like a bunch a "spooks" in no time yet. Be like the Cold War days all over again! All of this stuff is "need to know" in other words. IF YOU'RE SERIOUS ABOUT THIS SHIT, YOU NEED TO KNOW. You might want to know what the pulse is in your neighborhood, town, community, group, no matter how "feint" you need to know. Take notes now, talk to your significant other and compare those notes with theirs. Now what?...............back to trust.

And it's going to be nerve wracking, separating the beef from the BS. The simpering posers that treat their most minor trivia as though it were state secrets, probably REALLY piss off the actual operators whose minor trivia WAS / IS state secrets, and matters of life and death.

[Kesephist]

Gentlefolk,


This little gem is one that I have had no desire at all to set down into print. But a man admits to his mistakes.

Item: A Rodham presidency will mean me having to quit my job, as WalMart is a target for her (Arkansas-based, very large free enterprise, and, for now, out of her control). I would stand no chance of keeping my job as the company thinned its ranks. Ten years counts for nothing, as I am white, middle aged, and male... No EEOC brownie points.

Item: The local "preppers" are soft-handed fools or ungodly rich. None of them are to be trusted, as I saw someone run a Canary Trap on them, and they failed.

Item: Recent information of all the likely targets that were selected to manpack my stuff into has revealed that they are all very recently purchased by local developers, or in the hands of BLM or other such.

So...

I WAS WRONG ABOUT TRYING TO GO SOLO OUT HERE.

I've been gut-checking and to the point of ill about this ever since I got that last data item, last week. Many times, I was about to wipe this file, bail the F out... to what end, I do not know.

Candidly, if I knew someplace that could that use another body in February, I'd not have the slightest problem in packing up and going, understanding that I was NOT coming in empty-handed. I would not have a single problem of shipping half of my silver to that location beforehand, as an earnest.


Comments and suggestions both public and private would be welcome.

[realist]

I would love to take you up on your offer however if you came west we would probably pass each other as I was moving east. All is not lost.......yet. I would hope the idiots in Congress will be even more disorganized and fractionalized after then first of the year. I would hope they will leave us alone for a while. In the mean time I have started working and make my place and others complete as possible.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

Did you put an add in our Classifieds? Maybe we need a "Personal" section? OK just kidding, but look at it this way, you work at Wallyworld, you can transfer from store to store anywhere in the country, pick a spot! You should be able to get online and see what positions are available where, what store, etc. (inside source) So.........do you have a geographic location in mind? Time's getting short, Wyoming's looking pretty good right now and that's not to far, from you. But we don't have anyone from Wyoming aboard that I recall so we can't hook you up with someone..........yeah the govt/BLM pretty much owns NV. so I'm not sure what to tell you. I know there's pockets of good people on the west coast states. But again it goes back to trust and finding them. Again, it depends on what YOU want to do, I just think right now you have options, I take it you're management? LIke I said, just pick your spot, urinate and call it home. It sounds like you don't have much to move, what the hell? I probably didn't help much but hey, just my roll-a-quarters.

[Kesephist]

BWRR13:"look at it this way, you work at Wallyworld, you can transfer from store to store anywhere in the country, pick a spot! You should be able to get online and see what positions are available where, what store, etc. (inside source)"

I have (had?) been trying to transfer to another WM here in the Vegas valley for the past year. There has been interference, or I'd have had a better chance at it. Going outside of Vegas isn't going to happen as far as I can see.

Additionally, WM is a target. A Rodham victory will be very bad for WM, as she dislikes anything from Arkansas, she loathes free enterprise, and outright HATES all that $ she can't get her harpy claws on. WM is gonna be nailed six ways from Sunday that I can see, and probably a double dozen more that I can't. There is no law that requires me to sit and get downsized errrrrrr fired, and I lack the resources for fighting the matter.

BWRR13:"So.........do you have a geographic location in mind? Time's getting short, Wyoming's looking pretty good right now and that's not to far, from you. But we don't have anyone from Wyoming aboard that I recall so we can't hook you up with someone"

Candidly I'd had hopes of what appears to be the biggest concentration of Ants around, being east TN/SW VA. But I stand ready to be going any place another set of still fairly well working hand, and (pardon the brag) decently working brain are needed.

BWRR13:"yeah the govt/BLM pretty much owns NV. so I'm not sure what to tell you."

In 2004 I saw a map showing that the Feds owned over 80% of this state. Largest both by area and by percentage of any state.

BWRR13:"I take it you're management?"

Not a chance in hell. I am white, male and middle-aged, and haven't had one problem with telling off smart-asses that think MGR = GOD. With a razor-thin exception, the pack of mgmt I have to deal with are not worth the powder to blow them to hell, and I wouldn't want to have to pay the fines to feed them to pigs, as that'd be animal cruelty.

BWRR13:"It sounds like you don't have much to move, what the hell?"

I don't. Max move anymore will require a 10' (TM) class U-haul, and, if need be, a 4'x8' trailer. Anything past that ...

BWRR13:" hey, just my roll-a-quarters."

Quarters make the best fist loads.:D

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

Well just to clue you in on a little something, I looked into my little marble sack (I don't have a crystal ball) and I saw that TN is going to be a powder keg in near yrs to come. I think we're going to have our little civil/uncivilized war right here in the bible belt. They (sand people) are crawling all over the place, they've infiltrated my VA and it's getting worse. More "Golden Titty Shields" are going up and not by the proper channels either. They know they have to tear the heart out of the Bible belt before they can spread out and finish it all off. We have a Church on every street around here but we don't pack'em full of weapons and what nots like they do. No we're Americans, we were trained in gorilla warfare way back during the revolutionary war, or was it the French invasion before that. Eh, either way nobody knows America like Americans, "careful where you goin, step lively now"
Just not happy with the way things are going around here, but I'm not leaving, nope someone's got to be here to keep an eye on things.

[eagle326]

That dozer can dig a mass grave in short order if need be. Just sayin' BRR. :cool:

[Sniper-T]

It sure would be nice to have someone in power with the balls to 'inspect' a few of those golden tittied armouries!

[Domeguy]

We may not have the churches stocked full of surprises, but I would wager every redneck that goes to that church and his neighbor has a house full of deer rifles, bows, arrows, pistols, shotguns, AK's, AR's, a few war trophys, some of grandpa's old Vietnam era flame throwers, and a few hand grenades thrown in for good measure. What we don't have is orginazation like they do.

[Kesephist]

Well just to clue you in on a little something, I looked into my little marble sack (I don't have a crystal ball) and I saw that TN is going to be a powder keg in near yrs to come. I think we're going to have our little civil/uncivilized war right here in the bible belt. They (sand people) are crawling all over the place, they've infiltrated my VA and it's getting worse. More "Golden Titty Shields" are going up and not by the proper channels either. They know they have to tear the heart out of the Bible belt before they can spread out and finish it all off. We have a Church on every street around here but we don't pack' em full of weapons and what nots like they do. No we're Americans, we were trained in gorilla warfare way back during the revolutionary war, or was it the French invasion before that. Eh, either way nobody knows America like Americans, "careful where you goin, step lively now"
Just not happy with the way things are going around here, but I'm not leaving, nope someone's got to be here to keep an eye on things.

I"m not certain of the reference "Golden Titty Shields". I am certain that I've seen my too-full share of both closed and open faced chadors here in Vegas, and the accompanying swarm of underfed, underwashed, undereducated and undermannered brats.

Vegas stands not one single chance of freedom in a civil war. Either it gets co-opted by the powers that be as a pleasure city, or burned to the ground. I have no chance of hoofing or biking someplace that ain't already owned privately or surveilled by BLM. Part and parcel of my wanting to get the F out.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

To clarify....mosque. As for Vegas, eh, sodomy and gamora, it will be it's own demise. I think I mentioned it before but I've been through there once (scooter trip) early SEP in 05 I think. Was not impressed, came in 95 and out 93 across the dam. Loved the traffic, my breath was colder coming out of my mouth than the air outside. No way would I live there, now Mad Max country in the outlands beyond the city lights, there's some possibilities but but that would be just for fun for a while.

OK so I have to ask "K" what brought you to LV in the first place?

[Kesephist]

To clarify....mosque. As for Vegas, eh, sodomy and gamora, it will be it's own demise. I think I mentioned it before but I've been through there once (scooter trip) early SEP in 05 I think. Was not impressed, came in 95 and out 93 across the dam. Loved the traffic, my breath was colder coming out of my mouth than the air outside. No way would I live there, now Mad Max country in the outlands beyond the city lights, there's some possibilities but but that would be just for fun for a while.

OK so I have to ask "K" what brought you to LV in the first place?

Out of the Army in 1986, the math of the place appealed to me, still growing and all. Left in 1998 at the behest of the (now) ex.

Came back because ex told me to leave where we were. DK, DC about her present fate; haven't talked or anythinged since the decree, and just as well.

I know the nature of this place enough to get along in it. None of my former family would last ten minutes. Again, just as well.

All places have their peculiarities. Perhaps I'm incorrect in assuming I'll adapt quickly enough in another locale. At least I will have the chance to, come the time.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

We may not have the churches stocked full of surprises, but I would wager every redneck that goes to that church and his neighbor has a house full of deer rifles, bows, arrows, pistols, shotguns, AK's, AR's, a few war trophys, some of grandpa's old Vietnam era flame throwers, and a few hand grenades thrown in for good measure. What we don't have is orginazation like they do.

ONce again I totally concur with you. I think you already know where I might be going with this "DG" you can put "THE GROUP" together and have say 30 people and they have all the "implements of destruction" problem is they have them and they don't really know how to use them........efficiently. Or for that matter effectively! Now out of that HIGHLY motivated bunch that's there at said meeting of "THE GROUP" a whoopin and a Hollerin about how there gonna do this and gonna do that. Only about 30% are going to show up and train, learn and surprise themselves about how good they really are. The rest will show up when the SHTF and fuck up your whole day cause they don't know shit and they become a liability and they'll die first, nature of the beast. However about 10% of those will become highly effective leaders, but them I'm telling too much of the story aren't I?

In summary your only going to be able to count on about 33.333333% of your group as a whole. That 33, etc is your bread and butter. I suggest you get a smaller group.

But yet my social experiment continues...............they want to add more to the group..............what do you do now?