Above the Law!

[Sniper-T]

A thread spawned by EB's comments here: http://www.shtfready.com/threads/4571-American-Sniper-movie-review

Are military, police, natural resource officers, LEO's in general... above the law?

Should they be held to the same standard as John Q Public? Or held to a higher standard?

Should indiscretions be judged at the same level as public? Or higher?

Do you automatically give them respect just because of a uniform, or do you reserve judgement based on the interaction.

Does an infraction of one, taint your view of the group?

There is a local example right now, where a RCMP (Think State Patrol), got caught drunk driving an ATV and doing damage... The union lawyers got the DD dismissed, so all he got was a 5 day paid suspension, no driving suspension, no vehicle impoundment charges, no licence suspension, no jail time, blah blah blah... John Q. Public would have been hit with each of these, and more! (trust me, I know) The DD was plea bargained down to a misdemeanor 'reckless driving'

Is that fair?

What about cops flipping on their cherries to blow through red lights only to turn them off again and go nowhere important?

What about the 'Brotherhood'??? Cops/fire/ambulance/taxis/buses/etc. A cop watched me slide through an amber, with a taxi came through a full red right behind me a year ago, guess who got stopped and ticketed?

I know we have many members IN the brotherhood, but let's keep this civil (As if I need to say that here...:p )

And... go!

[MegaCPC]

I think a certain amount of "professional courtesy" is acceptable. The guys in uniform have a tough job to do and a lot of time it is without thanks.

That said, I believe that they should be held to the very same standard as the civilians they serve, if not a higher one. These men and women take an oath, and it spits in the face of the people when they get a slap on the wrist for a crime that would land Mr. Public in jail for a year or more. Not to mention, it tarnishes the reputation of the uniform, making it harder and more dangerous for the good ones to do their job properly.

[Domeguy]

I must say apals me the way the police are treated these days, even with the things that happened earlier this week to my daughter. It used to mean something when a police officer said "stop, or I'll shoot". Back then you stopped so you didn't get shot. I don't think most people realize what the average police or hi-way patrol officer goes through every day. They don't seem to realize after a high speed chase, or running after a perp, or after bring shot at does to the body and brain. With so much adrenaline and other chemicals being dumped into the body, I'm sure it's not to easy to just say have a nice day. I would expect them to screw up a certain percentage, just to show that the average is doing their correct job. There is however a difference when you step outside that average, due to incompetence, or just out and out plain wrong. I know the military has it's share of PTSD sufferers, but I feel in a small way, some of the police has their own form of PTSD. My father after retiring from the military of 21 yrs took the post of the head of police and fire at the Chattanooga Air Port. The police department had the city divided into 4 parts, with the AP being its own fifth part. We had talked a little bit of some of the things they had to go through, nothing like what the city cops had to deal with, but from day to day, they never knew what they might be up against, and my dad had to deal with these men. Some he said were loose cannons he had to keep a close watch on, but most were just trying they could make sure they went home to their family's at night. And I think on average, that's what most are trying to do, so I try to cut them some slack when they make split second decisions. I hope this makes sense. And here I am talking about things like the shootings, over zealous arrest procedures, things they face from day to day. But things like the DUIs spoken about in a earlier post, I think everyone, and I do mean everyone, police, judges, mayors, governors, their trophy girlfriends, to the president should be held accountable for their actions
EQUALLY, not higher or lower, than any other citizen.
**added a bit later**. This may cause a stir, but I blame unions for causing a major part of most of the problems in above posting about the DUI. The bad teachers, cops, whatever, can't be gotten rid of because of protection from their damn union.

[ElevenBravo]

I see a lot I agree with, professional courtesy, etc.. but within a reasonable limit.

Like DG, its upsetting to hear the chants against law enforcement officers. From what Ive read about the Ferguson incident, its just another day on the street, the officer did as many of us would do... try to perform there job while defending there own life!

About military, Ive run into a LOT of people over the course of time that claim to have been in the military, and Ive also run into a few that were in the military, but claimed to do a lot of "fantastic" things, bragging about it nearly every day... I had to work with this guy for a while before he left the company and it pained me to hear a lot of this stuff, to keep the peace I just shook my head and moved on.

The bottom line is, just because they are a cop, or just because they are/were in the military, they are still human. Sure, they have done a lot more than many civilians but they are no different than the rest of us and are subject to the same errors and bad habits the rest of the world suffers.

Teachers are another one held on a pedestal. Sure they have a hard job, and I admit I wouldnt do it! But how many have ended up in sex cases with there students?


Trust, but verify. People in positions of trust must be held accountable and be closely monitored to insure they are continue to be worthy of the position of trust.

On to stolen valor, its fine for someone to state they did this or that, but if they cant back it up with some type off document they would be better off just not mentioning it. And I think for the most part, those that were deep in the shit or saw real action, they are usually the ones that only talk about it among them selves.

I know my post is a bit fragmented, sorry.. thats all I can think of for now.
EB

[RedJohn]

I think a certain amount of "professional courtesy" is acceptable. The guys in uniform have a tough job to do and a lot of time it is without thanks.

That said, I believe that they should be held to the very same standard as the civilians they serve, if not a higher one. These men and women take an oath, and it spits in the face of the people when they get a slap on the wrist for a crime that would land Mr. Public in jail for a year or more. Not to mention, it tarnishes the reputation of the uniform, making it harder and more dangerous for the good ones to do their job properly.

I will agree 100% with you.

Cops may have a tough job, but they chose it and are paid and rewarded for it. Some other people also have tougher job and they have less pay and rewards than cops do. A lot of people other then cops die doing their work and nobody seem to say anything about them, but if a cop dies, oh boy, it in all the news.

They did not sign up only for the pay. They knew the risks or they're stupid. So let us stop put them on a pedestal. They're taking advantage of it.

Last week in France, 17 people died in a terrorist attack. We heard of the dead cops, who got the legion of honor because they died, we heard of the "people", the writers and such, but we almost did not hear of the janitor who was the first one to die. He was not armed, he was no famous and he was still the first to die and not a peep about him. He certainly was not paid to take risks.

When he was time to bury them, we saw the cops being buried, we saw the famous people being buried, but nothing about the janitor. This cast system is starting to take a toll on me. I am tired to see that most of us amount to nothing.

[realist]

So are they above the law, I say no. Should they be held in a higher standard, that all depends? Are you talking on duty or off duty? On duty yes they should be held to a higher standard. Off duty they are just like everyone else.

Cops are put in a position of trust and have so much discretion. They are and should be held to a higher standard. They see people at their lowest point. They break apart families in domestics because the law forces them to. They send people to jail because if they let them go there is the potential of being sued. It is no more the old days of giving the kid a kick in the butt and sent on their way. They would be prosecuted for battery, same goes for teachers. They give the notice of loved ones who have been killed in the car crash by the drunk driver. They bring home the lost child or the drunk child. They are in your house will you are away because your alarm is going off and they make sure it is secure before they leave and don’t take anything.

Fire is also in a position of trust. They arrive when your house is on fire and you are not there. They go through everything you have to ensure it is not still burning. They board up your house to keep out looters and don’t loot it. They see everything you have. When you are injured they assist EMS, strip you down buck naked and load you into the ambulance. They too see people at their lowest.

Natural resources officers, I assume it would be like our Fish and Game. They carry guns and have the power to arrest. In many cases it is their word against your so trust and honesty is paramount. This would also go the same for cops.

Now the military this is a little different IMHO. In most cases fire and law people are older and more mature. Military you are taking a young person and molding them to suit their purpose so they work as a team. I see the biggest problem is when the war zone goes from free fire to the transition when it is winding down and the ROE chance. I kind of look at this as going 100 MPH on the freeway and then taking the off ramp to a street with a 25 MPH zone, it’s hard to transition, problems can occur.

PTSD occurs in all the jobs except maybe fish and feathers. However I see it more sever in the military than in other public service professions.

Okay all groups come from the general population. All groups have shitheads we all don’t want to claim. Law, Fire and EMS all signed on knowing they would be held to a higher standard. But the problem occurs when they are off duty. “When I am off duty I do what I want!” If this is the case then when they screw should not think there is a double standard. They should be held to the same standard as everyone else. However the public does hold them to a different standard and this also reflects on how the public views that department.

Regarding the resource officer. If he was drunk on duty, I say terminate him. This same goes for the cop or ems, but there is the problem of this being looked at as sickness, not an intentional problem. So we now help those people rather than cast them off. I’m sorry but I do not think these people are fit to wear the uniform, they can do something else.

If he was off duty then that is a different situation. Would you be terminated from your job as a plumber or carpenter if the same thing happened to you? The media sucks and looks to advertise those events. Joe Smith, carpenter crashed his car or Police Officer Joe Smith crashed his car. The carpenter does not sell news. In our state if a cop is arrested off duty for DUI they lose their license for 30 days just like everyone else. Unless their department has a non-driving job for them many times they are terminated. The termination in many cases is for bringing discredit to the department. As for special treatment it cut and dry for the charges, it either happened or not. Generally there is no jail time for most people for the first offence but it does cost big bucks approximately $5K to $10K, probation and DUI School, doesn’t matter who you are.

At one time cops would turn on their amber rear light when going to a call which didn’t require red lights and siren. But people got into trouble for abusing this (shithead) so it is no longer used. Using the reds to go through the stop light when going to cover off another cop or to a potential problem call, yes they do it all the time and will do so because they want to get there before there are more problems. If they abuse it to go to lunch or go home on time, then that is another matter (shithead alert). “There is never a cop when you need one.” Well I had a friend who was a cop who broke his leg and was off for six weeks. He made the comment one day he never saw a cop the whole time he was off. Well I drove by his house one, sometimes two times a day when I was at work. This would have amounted to around twenty to thirty times. Moral of this it we are out there and you might not always see us. So when you get that ticket they can only stop one person at a time. I look at it this way there are hundreds of times I have gotten away with speeding in normal life, so I get caught that one time, I need to suck it up.

[Twitchy]

A thread spawned by EB's comments here: http://www.shtfready.com/threads/4571-American-Sniper-movie-review

Are military, police, natural resource officers, LEO's in general... above the law?

Should they be held to the same standard as John Q Public? Or held to a higher standard?

Should indiscretions be judged at the same level as public? Or higher?

Do you automatically give them respect just because of a uniform, or do you reserve judgement based on the interaction.

Does an infraction of one, taint your view of the group?

There is a local example right now, where a RCMP (Think State Patrol), got caught drunk driving an ATV and doing damage... The union lawyers got the DD dismissed, so all he got was a 5 day paid suspension, no driving suspension, no vehicle impoundment charges, no licence suspension, no jail time, blah blah blah... John Q. Public would have been hit with each of these, and more! (trust me, I know) The DD was plea bargained down to a misdemeanor 'reckless driving'

Is that fair?

What about cops flipping on their cherries to blow through red lights only to turn them off again and go nowhere important?

What about the 'Brotherhood'??? Cops/fire/ambulance/taxis/buses/etc. A cop watched me slide through an amber, with a taxi came through a full red right behind me a year ago, guess who got stopped and ticketed?

I know we have many members IN the brotherhood, but let's keep this civil (As if I need to say that here...:p )

And... go!

Just throwing this out there.. BUs drivers, taxis, etc. are afforded no special treatment from what I have seen...

Cops will occasionally use emergency signals to get through a red signal if they are responding to a lower priority emergency, or something that may turn into a more serious situation. Judgement should be reserved until you watch them do this and pull in for donuts ;)

Your RCMP story is despicable, and the officer should not be afforded such leniency... I would hope if it had been anything larger than an ATV that he would be charged and lose his job over it. They do that down here in a heart beat. bad publicity isn't good for the local departments.