Preparedness Fail

[The Stig]

I have a preparedness failure that I wanted to share. While embarrassing I hope you all can learn from my dumbassadry.

So the country is being slow baked by the wicked high temps right? Being the preparedness guru it should cross my mind that (1) power grids tend to fail and (2) air conditioners really tend to fail under such high loads.

Nope.

Dumbass 1: I have a generator that I've never started to see if it works

Dumbass 2: I have no window unit that could be powered by said generator

Dumbass 3: Even if I had a window unit as a backup to the house HVAC system, I've let my supply of gas get very low. I used a bunch of it gassing up 2x riding mowers, a neighbors ZTR and other lawn implements.


So I have a generator that might work, very little to fuel it, and nothing to power.

Even as I type this I'm realizing we don't have any electric fans that we could toss in a window. Our cooling system is dependent on a heatpump of suspect quality and some ceiling fans.

Holy bat-dip....talk about being completely unprepared.

Let this be a lesson to you kids, there's always some aspect of your prepps that gets overlooked and can bite you in the ass.

[Fatty]

I'd say I'm only half-assed prepared except its on the opposite end of the spectrum. I bought a 8500 surge watt generator last year to have in case we lost power during an ice storm and whatnot. I had it topped off and extra gas on hand, but I failed to check to see if I could actually hook it up to my furnace. Come to find out the damn thing was hardwired to the box (i'm still a fairly new home owner) so this year, I happened to come across a pellet stove for the right price and its now in my garage waiting to be installed when I get the money for it. This way I have more than one way to heat the house. Even though it sux to have to burn 2 fuel sources to do it, but it sure as hell beats replacing frozen/bursted pipes in the house lol.

[LUNCHBOX]

I got lucky on this one. We lost power for 5 days a few years ago. I picked up a Champion 3500 for the new place. I keep 50 gallons of gas for emergencies. I fired it up and put a load on it to see how long a tank would run it. The new place is small and we use 2 window units to cool with. To circulate air better we use a couple box fans, also will be less $$$ in the Windows when it cools off. I won't be able to run the furnace but I can run my floor heater in the living/dining room.

[AlphaTea]

Fatty,
pardon my ignorance, but I looked into pellet stoves a few years ago and I thought they all needed power to run the feed auger. Has that changed?

Lunchbox,
You didn't say if you has a gas, electric or oil furnace. If yours is electric, the following does not apply.
My furnace has a "light switch" on the front of it to turn off the power right at the furnace. The power is mainly just for the fan so it does not take a lot of power, about 1800w to start and 1200 to run. I do not have a transfer box for my generator (just lazy) so I just run a few extension cords to what ever I need powered. For the furnace I made a DEDICATED extension cord with lugs that I attach to the fan leads after removing them from the light switch. Of course I tripped the breaker to the furnace too. As long as the gas is flowing, I can get heat for the whole house If I need to. When not being used, I keep the cord in a sealed foodsaver bag taped to the side of the furnace.

[Fatty]

nope, it hasn't, thats why i commented on "Even though it sux to have to burn 2 fuel sources to do it." I need the fuel to run the generator so i can power the pellet stove hopper:P

[LUNCHBOX]

AT, I could have it hooked up to run the furnace but I figure I can run the generator longer on less fuel to heat a smaller area. Our living room and dining room are open so that I could section the rest of the house. Of course that would work winter or summer. Furnace is gas by the way.

[TEOTWAWKI13]

Well, I'll be damned....I've been so busy working and all in recent months, I haven't been on here in awhile, and this is the first thread I open today, and I've got a hot house, and I forgot all about putting box fans in a dang window, blowing out...to remove heat. We did it when I was a kid. Talk about getting spoiled with today's technology and all. The house we live in now is 60+ yrs old.

Thanks for the reminders guys! Oh yeah, and I need to buy more gas for emergencies too....Stig, I fail right along with ya.

[RedJohn]

I don't call this a failure, I call this learning and sharing. It is a failure only if it happen a second time or when your survival was at stake.

[bacpacker]

I have to agree with RJ! I have had AC troubles this summer and while it wasn't out altogether it wasn't keeping up with the heat it was miserable in the house. I was about to go buy a small window unit to cool the bedroom with so we could sleep. Purchasing a unit is on my list this fall when prices go down.
good discussion on the generators and fuel to run them.

[choyboy]

For the furnace I made a DEDICATED extension cord with lugs that I attach to the fan leads after removing them from the light switch. Of course I tripped the breaker to the furnace too. As long as the gas is flowing, I can get heat for the whole house If I need to. When not being used, I keep the cord in a sealed foodsaver bag taped to the side of the furnace.

We think alike, that's exactly what I've done too except I've made a couple of extra ones in case my 4k watt Champion generators need to also power my elderly neighbours home too.

[alpmco]

I’ve always been anal about power and keeping cool. It’s a Florida thing I guess. I don’t concern myself with cold. I don’t even have a fireplace.

I have three gennys. The 5500 watt one in the shed, the one on the motor home and a small 1200 watt two stroke. The 1200 will actually run the small AC unit in the garage.

I always have at least 15 gallons of gasoline on hand. Every three month I dump it in the old Jeep and refill the cans. Those 5 gallon cans actually hold 6 gallons. I have two 5 gallon cans, one 6 gallon can, 3 gallon boat can filled with 2 stroke, and two 2.5 gallon cans for the lawn equipment. If we ever have a fire I’m running like hell! It is all stored outside under a lean-to.

[Servelan]

My dad worked for Boeing where triple redundancy is the norm, so for heat, once we get a few more pieces of the puzzle hooked up/plugged in, we will have electricity for the gas furnace fan, a wood stove, and Mr. Heaters, which we tested over the course of a day in a drafty house with single pane windows and no insulation and found quite up to the task (although we do have the extension hose and two 20 pound propane tanks rather than just the little ones).

My Plan B is to have a Plan B and C because you never know when you will need that third alternative.

[Bob Krack]

I can't give a source right now, but MOST of the pellet stoves have a battery backup option. More research needed for length of backup time, additional cost or alternate source of power like battery and inverter.

Bob

[Stormfeather]

I have a question/remark for those of you that have generators. Isnt it easier to invest $150 in a transfer switch for them so you can just hook them into the house power and not worry about zapping some poor guy working on the lines a mile away? The house im in has a transfer switch and I bought a generator just for that purpose. I was just wondering, seems like such an easy solution, but doesnt seem like anyone is doing it for the most part?

[realist]

Transfer switches are the best and safest way to go. It sure beats running a bunch of extension cords. the important thing is know what the load is that you can carry. Most of the transfer switches that I have seen have breakers just for the important things, refrigerator, freezer and well. Then again for those in Texas I guess that would mean an air conditioner, its just too hot down there for me......

Hay Bob if you find that info re the battery back up for the pellet stove would you pass it on. That is something that I would like to have. I will be doing some checking also. Thanks in advance..

[The Stig]

I have a question/remark for those of you that have generators. Isnt it easier to invest $150 in a transfer switch for them so you can just hook them into the house power and not worry about zapping some poor guy working on the lines a mile away? The house im in has a transfer switch and I bought a generator just for that purpose. I was just wondering, seems like such an easy solution, but doesnt seem like anyone is doing it for the most part?

Could you tell us more about the transfer switches. How hard to install? Does it require an electrician? Do you need to get a certain size to handle a certain load?

[Stormfeather]

A buddy of mine installed mine for me, hes a electrical guru. Apparently they arent that hard to install, but yes, I would reccomend a electrician to do it. (You see, I am not afraid of bullets or rockets shot at me, but deathly afraid of electricity!) Yes you will need a certain size to handle a certain load. A quick google search gave me this. . .

Manual Transfer Switch Buyer's Guide - How to Pick the Perfect Manual Transfer Switch (http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/stories/3-How-to-Pick-the-Perfect-Manual-Transfer-Switch.html)

[bobthe]

I have a question/remark for those of you that have generators. Isnt it easier to invest $150 in a transfer switch for them so you can just hook them into the house power and not worry about zapping some poor guy working on the lines a mile away? The house im in has a transfer switch and I bought a generator just for that purpose. I was just wondering, seems like such an easy solution, but doesnt seem like anyone is doing it for the most part?

transfer switches are a waste. install a plug on your wall wired to your panel that will handle the max current your genny will put out to a single source. example, a 15 kw generator will likely have a 50 amp dryer plug on it - even though 50 amps @ 240v isnt 15 kw, that the max you can get out out a single connection. this plug you wired on your wall should be located near your outside genny running location, wherever that will be. make up a cord that will have matching plugs on either end to connect your generator to the plug on the wall. When power goes out kill the main service disconnect THEN turn on your generator. Be sure to use your breaker panel to shut off any loads that would overwhelm your generator such as hot water heaters or whatnot. when the lights go on next door, shut your generator and turn the main service disconnect back on.

[Stormfeather]

transfer switches are a waste. install a plug on your wall wired to your panel that will handle the max current your genny will put out to a single source. example, a 15 kw generator will likely have a 50 amp dryer plug on it - even though 50 amps @ 240v isnt 15 kw, that the max you can get out out a single connection. this plug you wired on your wall should be located near your outside genny running location, wherever that will be. make up a cord that will have matching plugs on either end to connect your generator to the plug on the wall. When power goes out kill the main service disconnect THEN turn on your generator. Be sure to use your breaker panel to shut off any loads that would overwhelm your generator such as hot water heaters or whatnot. when the lights go on next door, shut your generator and turn the main service disconnect back on.

I dont know about it being a waste and all, you are the first person whos even commented as such to me so far. As I mentioned earlier, I do not have any experience with electricity, so its not my forte in any way shape or form. But I do know that when we got hit with a ice storm last winter and the electric went out, All I did was use the transfer switch, turn on the generator, and everything worked exactly as it was supposed to. just my .02 cents. If im reading your post correctly, you are talking about making one plug work, where I am talking about making all of the plugs work, I think thats the difference with a transfer switch, that and not having juice running out and down the road on the power lines to where somebody working on the line could get hurt when your generator starts sending juice out. That and the nearest neighbors arent close enough to know when their lights are on or off, so that doesnt help me!

[bobthe]

I dont know about it being a waste and all, you are the first person whos even commented as such to me so far. As I mentioned earlier, I do not have any experience with electricity, so its not my forte in any way shape or form. But I do know that when we got hit with a ice storm last winter and the electric went out, All I did was use the transfer switch, turn on the generator, and everything worked exactly as it was supposed to. just my .02 cents. If im reading your post correctly, you are talking about making one plug work, where I am talking about making all of the plugs work, I think thats the difference with a transfer switch, that and not having juice running out and down the road on the power lines to where somebody working on the line could get hurt when your generator starts sending juice out. That and the nearest neighbors arent close enough to know when their lights are on or off, so that doesnt help me!

when you apply power to 1 plug in your house from a generator, so long as it's a 2 pole plug, ie a 240v plug, you will be applying power to ALL circuits in your house. In essence all you are doing is disconnecting your home from the utility connection via you main service disconnect, then using your own breaker panel in the exact same manner as a transfer switch would. it's just as easy.

if you cant see the neighboors lights come on to know when you can shut your generator, it would be easy enough to wire a light that is before your main service disconnect sothat it would turn on when the power is back.

[dragon5126]

Bad advice! In a panic situation or a brain fart someone forgets to pull the mains, and the lineman a mile down the road gets fried due to the backfed electricity, and then I end up getting called to investigate the resulting homicide due to criminal negligence...

[bobthe]

Bad advice! In a panic situation or a brain fart someone forgets to pull the mains, and the lineman a mile down the road gets fried due to the backfed electricity, and then I end up getting called to investigate the resulting homicide due to criminal negligence...

put your breaker for the utility plug at the top of your panel and paint it neon red/green. label it so you and everyone else knows to kill the service main when energizing the breaker for the genny.

we do tons of things every day that can kill others, such as driving a car. even in panic situations. if you want the extra safety factor or are worried you might have a brain fart - spend the few hundred bucks to get a transfer switch. but from a purely electrical standpoint - it's not needed.

[dragon5126]

Some people still do not get it... sad... and it's safe to stick the barrel of a loaded gun in your ear as long as you dont pull the trigger...

[TroubleShooter]

Bad advice! In a panic situation or a brain fart someone forgets to pull the mains, and the lineman a mile down the road gets fried due to the backfed electricity, and then I end up getting called to investigate the resulting homicide due to criminal negligence...

Would not be criminal negligence..........You have to committ a crime. Just saying.....

[bobthe]

Some people still do not get it... sad... and it's safe to stick the barrel of a loaded gun in your ear as long as you dont pull the trigger...

different strokes for different folks. there are a ton of people in this world who would frown on the idea of you carrying a gun around with you because someone might get shot by accident or a bad guy might take it from you, shoot you and then go on a killing rampage.

yet you still carry (i assume from your previous statement you are a cop)

life is all about calculated risks. you just dont like the flavor of the risk I suggested people take. but thats PERSONAL OPINION. not a position required by some reason of electrical engineering.

BTW, the poor power line guys... they share half the blame. power islanding DOES happen in the real world. they should be checking the lines to confirm they really are dark.

[The Stig]

Gentleman the topic of this thread has nothing to do with electrocuting power workers or transfer switches.

If you'd like to continue to discuss those issues further please go to PMs. Otherwise I look forward to seeing this one get back on track.

[TroubleShooter]

nope, it hasn't, thats why i commented on "Even though it sux to have to burn 2 fuel sources to do it." I need the fuel to run the generator so i can power the pellet stove hopper:P

Have you looked at running your auger off of inverter powered by solar and/or battery........The auger only works as needed, I would think you could get 16 hrs run time on one charge with a small battery bank.

[sidewinder]

I'm trying to make my prep planning for no electricity and no fuels like gasoline or natural gas.. think 1800s...wood baby wood...& solar...

[Bob Krack]

Hay Bob if you find that info re the battery back up for the pellet stove would you pass it on. That is something that I would like to have. I will be doing some checking also. Thanks in advance..Hah! I was surprised that anyone ever reads any of my posts.....

In the near future I will try to supply sources of the pellet stove battery back up suppliers.

Been a little under the weather lately, din't see your message.

Bob