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mercury
08-12-2011, 02:55 PM
I'm just starting LTS of food, and know nothing about it.

First, I see a lot of references to mylar bags and oxygen absorbers. Could dried foods (rice, pasta, beans, etc) be left in their original packaging and simply placed in a pantry (cool, dry place)? How long would this store?

Any risk of mice or bugs? If so, could the original packages then be placed in a 5 gal bucket? What would be the expected shelf life in this case?

I understand the next step up is to vacuum-seal it, but right now money is a big concern and I don't feel comfortable buying lots of equipment and supplies. Are small quantities of mylar bags and oxy abs available? If so, where can I find them? Does anyone know of places in the North Texas area to purchase these?

Any comments on Food Saver vacuum sealing versus Mylar?

Finally, any suggestions on links to tutorials (written or video) would be appreciated.

Thank you very much!

slowz1k
08-12-2011, 04:24 PM
A good place to start... for me anyway, many years ago, was the LDS Church. The Mormons have been doing this a very long time and have it down to a science. I'm not a member of the Mormon Chruch, but I work with a friend that is, and have been fortunate enough to tag along on many a canning trip to bolster my LTS supplies.
Below is a link to their website. The site answered many questions that I had about LTS when first starting out. I believe that they even offer a food calculator to see how much you need for how many and how long.
If there is a LDS cannery in your area, you may be able to get in on a canning session yourself. The prices are very affordable and you can learn a lot. The FAQ on the right hand side is a good place to start.
There is some Religious content in some of these links. Don't open if you find religious topics offensive

Family Home Storage (http://www.providentliving.org/channel/0,11677,1706-1,00.html)

LDS Preparedness manual:
http://www.abysmal.com/LDS/Preparedness/Preparedness.pdf


Food Storage Calculator:

http://www.providentliving.org/content/display/0,11666,7498-1-4070-1,00.html

and here:

http://lds.about.com/library/bl/faq/blcalculator.htm


For other LTS I do use food grade buckets that I get for free from the bakery of my local grocier (Food Lion), along with mylar bags and 02 absorbers that I get from various internet sources or the LDS cannery (They sell canning supplies as well)
In a cool dry place dry beans and rice can reach a shelf life of 30+ years IF properly stored.
I'm not a fan of vacuum packing. Nothing wrong with it, but I like the protection that the buckets and mylar give my product from pests and the environment.

Don't forget standard canned goods at your grocery store either. A best by date is only the date placed on a can by the manufacturer to keep them out of court. Again... stored in a cool dry place (I use rubbermaid tubs in my basement) canned goods can last many years past that date. I just cracked open a canned ham a few months ago with a BB date of Nov 09 and it was fine. I usually rotate my canned goods but this particular ham slipped by.
Don't forget water.... All the food in the world is no good to you with out water.

mercury
08-22-2011, 02:31 AM
Thanks for the links. They were very helpful!

DisasterGuy
09-23-2011, 03:13 AM
First, I see a lot of references to mylar bags and oxygen absorbers. Could dried foods (rice, pasta, beans, etc) be left in their original packaging and simply placed in a pantry (cool, dry place)? How long would this store?

Any risk of mice or bugs? If so, could the original packages then be placed in a 5 gal bucket? What would be the expected shelf life in this case?

I understand the next step up is to vacuum-seal it, but right now money is a big concern and I don't feel comfortable buying lots of equipment and supplies. Are small quantities of mylar bags and oxy abs available? If so, where can I find them? Does anyone know of places in the North Texas area to purchase these?

Let me introduce you to a simpler way. Years ago, we ordered beans by the 100-pound bag. We got 5-gallon plastic buckets with tight lids, then cleaned and sterilized them with bleach. We poured about 3-4 inches of beans into the bottom of a buckets. Then we added a chunk of dry ice (frozen carbon dioxide) about 1-1/2 inch cubed. Next step was to fill the bucket with beans, and put the lid on with a gap for the CO2 to escape. After a day or so we put the lids on tight because the CO2 had sublimed away.

The principle is that bugs don't breathe CO2. In practice, the plastic buckets should be stored in a cool area that doesn't get a lot of temperature change. Though the buckets are supposed to be sealed, I think they breathe out in summer heat and breathe in in cool winter weather. They may do this with daily temperature changes, too, if you store them where they get hot daily and cool off at night. I know that I lost wheat to oxygen entering my sealed buckets so the weevil eggs in the grain could hatch. If you stack buckets, put plywood on top and don't go more than 3 or 4 buckets high.

The only safety concern is that you can get burned by dry ice, so handle it with wooden tongs or other tongs that don't conduct cold. Flash-freezing your flesh is possible with an instant's contact. We used a set of wooden salad tongs, fork, and spoon -- nothing elaborate or expensive.

On each container mark contents and date you sealed the container.

I think the plastic bag and O2 absorbers work better. My personal preference is a #10 tin can with O2 absorbers. But that takes a lid sealer, and you're into borrowing or renting equipment. The dry ice method uses the least equipment of any LTS method I know. Hopefully someone else can add more about it.

bobthe
09-23-2011, 01:35 PM
Don't forget standard canned goods at your grocery store either. A best by date is only the date placed on a can by the manufacturer to keep them out of court. Again... stored in a cool dry place (I use rubbermaid tubs in my basement) canned goods can last many years past that date. I just cracked open a canned ham a few months ago with a BB date of Nov 09 and it was fine. I usually rotate my canned goods but this particular ham slipped by.
Don't forget water.... All the food in the world is no good to you with out water.

a year past the expiration is nothing when it comes to an undamaged canned food product so long as it was properly processed by the factory. foodstuffs recovered from shipwrecks or found in basements have been tested a century after they were canned and found to be not only safe but almost as nutritious as fresh foods.
see: Shelf Life of Canned and Dry Foods by Robert Wayne Atkins, P.E. - Grandpappy (http://www.grandpappy.info/hshelff.htm)

but there really long term record goes to woolly mammoths. most of the claims of eating mammoth meat is assumed to be urban legend, but some scientific articles in recent times have included amusing stories of experimental consumption of left over bits of meat from carcasses.. most reports dont claim the stuff is gourmet fare, but what do you expect after 40,000 years..

maximo
09-28-2011, 12:26 PM
Could dried foods (rice, pasta, beans, etc) be left in their original packaging and simply placed in a pantry (cool, dry place)?

ANS: Yes, all these foods can be left in there original packaging. As you mention, a cool and dry place is best because cold environment slow the growth of harmful bacteria and other organisms that may spoil your food. Dry is good as well for the same reasons of denying the organisms moisture they need to grow, thus extending the shelf life of your foods.

How long would this store? Well, according to your parameters of storing the foods in a cool and dry place in their original containers it will also depend on the foods. Obviously white bread stored in its plastic container will become moldy within a week or a few weeks. However. I have personally seen beans that were in my moms pantry that were about 2 years old and they tasted great. My best advice would be to look at the use by date that is stamped on all food containers and packaging. Rice and dried beans can easily lasts 10 years in their original plastic packaging , however the taste will most likely be affected.


Any risk of mice or bugs?

ANS: Definitely. Mice and bugs are always hungry and if they find a nice store of your food that is easily accessible to them, they will eat it.


If so, could the original packages then be placed in a 5 gal bucket?

ANS: A great idea! The 5 gallon buckets is usually made of very strong plastic that is very difficult for rodents to gnaw through. The plastic containers are also tight enough and provide a good seal to prevent insects from entering.


What would be the expected shelf life in this case?

ANS: I have seen rice that has been stored in a five gallon bucket opened after 20 years and still edible, although the taste is altered. I would expect the same from beans.


I understand the next step up is to vacuum-seal it, but right now money is a big concern and I don't feel comfortable buying lots of equipment and supplies. Are small quantities of mylar bags and oxy abs available? If so, where can I find them? Does anyone know of places in the North Texas area to purchase these?

ANS: Not sure of any places in North Texas, google it. I'm sure you can get small quantities of mylar bags and oxygen absorbers over the internet. What you could also do is ask your neighbor if they would want to make a purchase and you could just split the costs. You can do this with more neighbors as well.

Any comments on Food Saver vacuum sealing versus Mylar?

ANS: I'm currently looking into this, but from what I've seen so far it seems that using a Mylar bag with oxygen absorbers is quicker, more convenient, and usually less expensive per pound of food stored. With mylars bags the only other equipment you need is an iron to make a seal and that is one piece of equipment in almost all home in the U.S. On the other hand, if you want to do vacuum sealing you will need to invest in a really good vacuum sealing machine and that takes an initial investment of a few hundred dollars. So your initial cost will be more expensive because of the vacuum sealer and the vacuum seal bags are about the same price or more expensive per yard when compared to Mylar bags. For these reasons I would stick with Mylar.



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JustAPrepper
09-29-2011, 12:52 AM
I'm going to disagree on the "original" packaging.

All of our food storage is located in our house in what could be considered a controlled environment. All of our grains and dry goods are Mylared with O2 Absorbers and bucketed in food grade buckets. Living in Florida, we run our A/C non-stop four months out of the year, June through September. It is run as needed during the remaining months with a couple months of no usage at all and during our "winter" months, typically January and February, the heat may get kicked on if we get a winter blast. All in all, I would estimate that our house averages 70 degrees during the span of a year with very little humidity. According to some sources, this environment is considered "cool and dry".

I often purchase small bags of beans and rice and toss them on our shelf. These are the things I plan on donating or sharing with neighbors in need but recently, while checking inventory, I found a few bags were degrading. They were turning yellow and were sticky/tacky to the touch. And they're only a few months old. Things just aren't made like they used to be.

Based on this experience I wouldn't store any rice or beans in the bags they come in, even if they were going in to Mylar and/or buckets. Even in our "conrolled" environment, the plastics are degrading and that makes me uncomfortable.

Just my two cents.

ladyhk13
09-29-2011, 01:29 AM
I have to agree about the original packaging thing. If it is pasta, rice, wheat or along those lines it should be removed from the package and repackaged so there is NO air in it due to the bugs and larvae already in the product. Nothing is worse than spending all your money on product just to have bugs destroy it.