What to you is "off limits" for scavenging and why?

[Domeguy]

I think the "scavenging for supplies" thread brought out quite a lot of great ideas, but also some strong opinions. I brought up the idea of scavenging from religious institutions. Some of you thought it was fair game, while others thought it was crossing a bad line. So, I ask you what is off limits in your thoughts as a prepper, and at what point would you be crossing over to the dark side? How far is too far, or is everything fair game as far as you are concerned?

[Sniper-T]

day 1 - maintain hidey-hole
day 3 - stay outa my way!
day 5 - hide up
day 9 - pickin' thru the ashes
day 12 - no rules, people are made of meat... and god help them if they are messing with my peas...
day 18 - I told you, punk, don't fuck with my peas!
...

shit digresses quickly after one fucks with my peas!

[helomech]

What ever is necessary for survival, except i would not harm a INNOCENT person to survive.

[Domeguy]

Note to self....don't fuck with Snipers peas!

[Illini Warrior]

What ever is necessary for survival, except i would not harm a INNOCENT person to survive.



"INNOCENT person" goes to fair game when he defends his property against someone like you "salvaging"

after the true innocent people - that can't defend themselves - die off because they were "salvaged" out of existence .... there'll only be the "salvaging" people and the people with morals & ethics prepared to live and DEFEND themselves .....

[Kesephist]

Each will have their own Rubicon. Bear in mind that, once they cross it, essentially they become the equivalent of those that caused the S to HTF in the first place.

Mental preparation, or ethical?

[Domeguy]

So far Helo, Illi, and Keep all three make good and valid points. Do what you have to but don't go too far. But what is too far. How do you define an "innocent". Just because the are good today because the have a full belly doesn't mean in 5 days time they might not think twice about ripping out your throat just to get your three cans of peas. At what point does the moral delema come into play? Does anyone of us civilians really know what we are capable of. And personally speaking here to any military members, as a civilian I have no idea what might have happened in your past in any conflict you may have been involved in, and I am in no way critizing any thing you may have had to do to survive. In my opinion any military member is a true "American Hero" and should never be questioned about their past. But for those of us who have never seen the field of battle, I don't think it's fair to point fingers in ANY direction until we ourselves have truly made a mental decision as to how far we are willing to go to survive. And going beyond that, how far are you willing to go to protect you wife, husband, family. Remember just because you are passionate about protecting yourself and family, your neighbor who you were close to, had BBQs with, shared birthdays, events, good times with, is just as equally passionate about saving his family. Just because we have prepped, and even though we try to teach them, they don't always listen, and will want our peas...and if nothing else is learned here today...don't fuck with another mans peas...you won't like what you get!

[ElevenBravo]

Im a lot like Sniper, except for Beefaroni instead of peas...

EB

[Katrina]

This is something I've struggled and prayed about. How far is too far? Scavenging abandoned buildings, be it a church or an office is one thing, stealing from others to survive ??? I know deep down inside me I would do anything to protect my family, if attacked but to deliberately seek out others to kill and steal from them to survive, I don't know if I could go that far. I guess in the long run we really don't know what we will do until faced with a total SHTF situation. Each of us will have to make decisions based on how we were raised, our self preservation instincts and how we've prepared so far and who we're with.

[izzyscout21]

What ever is necessary for survival, except i would not harm a INNOCENT person to survive.

^^Pretty much this.

[helomech]

"INNOCENT person" goes to fair game when he defends his property against someone like you "salvaging"

after the true innocent people - that can't defend themselves - die off because they were "salvaged" out of existence .... there'll only be the "salvaging" people and the people with morals & ethics prepared to live and DEFEND themselves .....

You are assuming I would steal from someone. Salvaging means the person is gone or dead. I would not take something from someone unless they tried to take from me first.

- - - Updated - - -


So far Helo, Illi, and Keep all three make good and valid points. Do what you have to but don't go too far. But what is too far. How do you define an "innocent". Just because the are good today because the have a full belly doesn't mean in 5 days time they might not think twice about ripping out your throat just to get your three cans of peas. At what point does the moral delema come into play? Does anyone of us civilians really know what we are capable of. And personally speaking here to any military members, as a civilian I have no idea what might have happened in your past in any conflict you may have been involved in, and I am in no way critizing any thing you may have had to do to survive. In my opinion any military member is a true "American Hero" and should never be questioned about their past. But for those of us who have never seen the field of battle, I don't think it's fair to point fingers in ANY direction until we ourselves have truly made a mental decision as to how far we are willing to go to survive. And going beyond that, how far are you willing to go to protect you wife, husband, family. Remember just because you are passionate about protecting yourself and family, your neighbor who you were close to, had BBQs with, shared birthdays, events, good times with, is just as equally passionate about saving his family. Just because we have prepped, and even though we try to teach them, they don't always listen, and will want our peas...and if nothing else is learned here today...don't fuck with another mans peas...you won't like what you get!

During a real shtf even anyone caught on my property will be dealt with. I will let you figure out what that means. Now away from my house I will not steal or kill from good people to survive. As far as knowing who is good and who is bad, well I will have to trust my gut.

[bacpacker]

Up front I will say that I have no idea what I will do given a severe SHTF situation. Never been faced with anything approaching that before. I can think and plan all I want, and have at times, but until I'm up against it it'll be nothing more than my best guess.

That said, I would do anything I had to be able to protect my family. This also applies to any friends I have who I feel would do the same for me.

[Vodin]

I think..oh no that once bugs and mice start running low it would become a situation of survival. If my family or I am in need I would start to focus on what is available. Lets be honest here only those like us will be in the 2nd quarter, I would then focus on those that have questionable tactics. In the 3rd quarter it would become a borderline call I would consider my pets. 4th quarter..

I dont have a god to travel to after I die. So I will fight hard for every breath I can take and my wife is on the pedestal so she will receive anything I can provide. She stood by me when I was in a questionable position, I can only try to do what she has already done for me.

[Caveman Survival]

Like bacpacker I have no idea what I'd do in a shtf scenario... But I do know what I am capable of. In another lifetime I was one of your prototypical pieces of shit. Robbery, theft, violence... None of these things were out of character for me, and they all came easy to me. It took a lot of work for me to break that cycle, but when I did my life changed dramatically. I became 'civilized', working to make every day be better than the last one. Harming someone now is unfathomable to me. But that is today. Take away society, civilized organization, and social structure, I'm not sure it would take much to go feral. I can't say that for everyone, but for most here in the colony I believe that in order to protect the integrity of self and family (I am talking about physical integrity not moral), most would do what is necessary.

As to the OPs question at hand... What is off limits? To survive? Nothing. In a desperate state of mind you would be surprised what one can justify. I wouldn't go roving to CAUSE harm, however if cornered -whether it be from other's aggressions or from my own scavenging/looting/stealing/raiding efforts - getting back to my family will be priority number 1. Everything else is an obstacle to overcome.

[Caveman Survival]

With that being said, I think I should elaborate a little. I'll give a couple of scenarios.

Scenario 1 - My family and I are on our own, running low on supplies. We have no support system in place from a MAG and have been moving from safe place to safe place (as safe as can be in the situation.) One of us could be sick, starving, or in serious danger. All bets are off. I am taking what I can get my hands on. And doing what needs to be done to get it.

Scenario 2 - we have found a semi-permanent location to fortify. We might have joined up with a few others. I am wary, but willing to work cooperatively with them for the good of the group. Always mindful. Again, we will be co-sufficient until NEEDS arise (not wants). But if those needs do arise then I must do what needs to be done. There is no room for moral and ethical quibbling. We will not die (gracefully).

Scenario 3 - this is where we have the luxury of weighing our options. A MAG has been established, perhaps a colony such as this one. We are more sustainable now, the need to scavenge has subsided and we are in a better place to barter or trade. Focus now is on defence. Keeping what we have safe. In that respects, once again, we do what must be done in order to survive. We won't need to be as aggressive, but we won't be passive either.

I hope this clears up any confusion on me being a psychopathic thief hell bent on murder and mayhem, throwing civility and morality to the wind just for the chance to steal sniper's peas.

[bacpacker]

CS I like your scenario breakdown. The differences between them are huge and would make a major change in how things got handled.

[Domeguy]

CS, I must say I don't think you are hellbent on destroying society, as I quite agree with everything you say. That is except for your last statement...I think you do covet Snipers peas, as do we all.

[bacpacker]

DG, you wanna make a pea run to the great white north? I think we could get us a meal or three from the patch.
��

[Sniper-T]

don't need to steal, come on up for a visit, we'll drink beer and eat peas!
lol

[bacpacker]

Now who said anything bout stealin? We was just gonna borrow a few.

I wish I had time to get up there for a visit. Beer and peas sound good.

[Domeguy]

I was hoping to "borrow" 3-4 beans. The last ones I traded for didn't grow into a giant beanstalk and lead to a giants castle as promised.

[Domeguy]

What is off limits to me? I have stated here before I think the common every day human living their day to day life is lost in a world of their own, and therefore a fool to what is right in front of them. My wife has a friend who lives in AL, who lives day to day off of the Government, and fully believing the check is OWED to them, and will always be there. My wife has tried to tell her to at least when they get their food stamps to put back some canned goods for a rainy day. She thinks that's a stupid idea, even though when a tornado came through a few years ago and left them with no power for a week, they thought it more important to charge their cellphone from their car battery and drained it, than to have a working car to go get groceries. They told us the gov. Would get them food. I think if things go bad, people like this will get what they deserve. They will wait around for the gov. to help them and they will die with their hand out. They don't want to do the work, they just want to show up after the work is done and reap the rewards. In post SHTF, these people will be gone, and the ones who have done the work and prepared will survive, but for how long? Stored food and water will only last so long, then it too will run out. If you don't have a plan in place to replace what you use, you lose. Some people will only have one plan in place, eat their peas, look at the empty can, then come to try and take yours. I for one will not hesitate to shoot you multiple times if you try. I have planned ahead and stocked up on peas, and so should have you, it's not my fault if you didn't. And when it comes to protecting my family, yes, I will steal from a church to keep them alive if I have to. Yes, I will come and try to steal from you if I have to to keep them alive, as I feel you would do the same to me to keep your family alive. The days of one big happy family will have gone, and it will be survival of the fittest. The days of might equals right will have returned. Does this make me a bad person, maybe so, maybe not. Will I try to help others if I can, I would like to think I would, but until that time comes, I can't tell you for sure. You can't open your doors to everyone!

[realist]

What ever is necessary for survival, except i would not harm a INNOCENT person to survive.

When it comes to scavenging I agree it has been abandoned so it is free game. I think the big problem is just what this SHTF situation is. If the population is pretty much what it is today then things will go fast. If on the other hand there was something like a CME or EMP that would isolate things so the general population will not be on the move in their vehicles.

For pretty much all my life I have hunted to bad guys so I have a pretty good read on people. It is for this reason my times I do not play well with others. I am very choosey who I associate with and this select group of people is who I will depend upon. We all work well together and there is a bond of trust we have which in problem times will aid our survival. Family as well as friends are all self-sufficient in one way or other. However supplies will eventually run out and things will have to be replaced. I live in an area where the growing season is long, we can get two or three crops, no snow. Livestock is plentiful, yes I know people will want to protect theirs, we have access to a large cattle ranch. The big thing is living in rural areas it is the others coming into our area we worry about.

So where would people scavenge? I would think it would be the cities rather than the rural area. This would be for things other than food because I would think food would go really quick in the cities, so this would be the other supplies. It’s funny since it would be the city people who would be looking outward for their supplies.

[Sniper-T]

I'm not sure if it was mentioned yet, but most people in the country keep gardens, many keep animals. Midnight raids of the pea patch or the chicken coop might be tempting, but one must remember, that most country folk are also Firearms owners, and hunters, etc.

And, really don't appreciate trespassers.

[Gunfixr]

Yep, it's one of the reasons I have suppressors, and night vision.

[Sniper-T]

As do they...

[izzyscout21]

Yep, it's one of the reasons I have suppressors, and night vision.

Ditto

[Sniper-T]

As do they...

ditto

[helomech]

As do they...

Hoping for thermal one day

[Sniper-T]

That be cool, although it would be completely useless against my last ex-girlfriend.

She was a complete cold hearted bitch.

lol

[bacpacker]

Sounds like my ex wife��

[Domeguy]

My ex wife too, and all others. But this brings me back to the point. Raids will happen, on both sides. Just because someone says "no, I would never do that" doesn't mean someone else wont. What may be taboo to you can be just a fun day at the pea farm to someone else.

[Sniper-T]

Damn! my poor pea farm!

:(

[RedJohn]

I am sad to hear about your ex-wives and girlfriends. As we speak, my ex-wife has full access to my bank account. I see her everytime I am around where she lives and we speak to each other often. The same with my ex-inlaws.

As for the subject of this post, I already know what will happen in a bad scenario. The thing is that I may never have to scavenge anything from anybody. I have in quantity what I will need to survive in case I need it. I was trained to do so and don't have this much more to be around.

If you come to scavenge me, though, just know that your age or gender will not save you from my wrath. You may want to ask before you try. I could probably help you somehow. Just don't try to take it if I say no. Or don't come alone.

[Domeguy]

I may be wrong when I make this bold statement, so please forgive me. But to thing anyone has "everything" they will ever need until the end of their life is false. You will always want or need something else, and here is where it gets tricky, because "WANT" and "NEED" are two entirely different things. I WANT his peas means I may just walk on over and ask him if I can barter an ounce of silver for a can of peas. He says yes, we both are happy, he says no, maybe one of us walks away, maybe both. I NEED his peas means I will do my damned best I have to take his peas, and only one of us is going to walk away, maybe neither one of us. I have only been trying to point out in this post that until the day comes, I know I am still not sure as to what is taboo when it comes to wants and needs. I try to prepare ahead, but I can't see the future, so there may be many unforeseen gaps in my pea needs.

[Gunfixr]

I don't have suppressors so that I can hunt "the innocent". They are a force multiplier. I know others will also have them.
I want every advantage I can get.

I know how I would like for everything to work.
I also know it's probably not going to happen that way.
However, I know I can adjust what I do to what others do.
"do I have a plan to kill everyone I meet? No, but it's still an option."
My decisions will be based on what I think is best for me and mine, at the time I am making them.

[RedJohn]

@Domeguy: I can tell you for a fact that I have everything I need to survive. Of course, I could get more things to survive better, but I am not the type to want more than I need. At the same time, if the shit really hits the fan, pharmacies will close and within 6 months I will die because I won't have the medecine I need to survive.

[Domeguy]

@Domeguy: I can tell you for a fact that I have everything I need to survive. Of course, I could get more things to survive better, but I am not the type to want more than I need. At the same time, if the shit really hits the fan, pharmacies will close and within 6 months I will die because I won't have the medecine I need to survive.

Well then brother, it would seem we are both in the same boat, and I'll see you on the other side.

[realist]

We here on the left coast do not believe in suppressors, sorry silencers according to our elected officials, because they are evil. They still have not outlawed NVGs or thermal so I am acquiring them now. Even in liberal Oregon they allow suppressors, soooooooooooo since my daughter lives there we just might end up with uh one.............

[Gunfixr]

@Domeguy: I can tell you for a fact that I have everything I need to survive. Of course, I could get more things to survive better, but I am not the type to want more than I need. At the same time, if the shit really hits the fan, pharmacies will close and within 6 months I will die because I won't have the medecine I need to survive.
Yeah, my wife is in this same boat. It would take a week or two before she'd be about half unable to do anything.

I wouldn't just die, but the heartburn would get so constant and bad I'd probably just be laying somewhere clutching my chest.

[izzyscout21]

@Domeguy: I can tell you for a fact that I have everything I need to survive. Of course, I could get more things to survive better, but I am not the type to want more than I need. At the same time, if the shit really hits the fan, pharmacies will close and within 6 months I will die because I won't have the medecine I need to survive.

One of my kids is in this boat.

[robsdak]

One of my kids is in this boat.

i have a seat on this boat. with my different aliments, don't know exactly how long. 3,6,12 months? but have talked too my Dr. and taking steps to have at least 1 year of meds needed. it's good too have an understanding doctor, it's good he subscribes to the same 'magazine' we all read. : )

[Vodin]

I am sorry to say I don't have a release point if something is unavailable. Breathing will become difficult but my brain will press me on. I will stand until I breathe my last breath. Sounds neat but I don't give up and will give my best till the end. I have been through to much to get to this point just to ease my posture. Guess I am that old fart to be that spits on the face of the enemy. :)