Going Solar electric - your input please?

[Socalman]

Within the month we will make a final decision on a solar electric system for our home. I do not intend to rent or lease, it will be a purchase. Not sure if the H.E.R.O. program is a national or state program but we have been approved for the loan, low cost, billed on property tax and becomes a tax deduction. In about 2 weeks we begin to listen to proposals from 3 different companies.

We will be tied into the grid, but I want a system that will not be grid dependent as when, not if, the grid goes down I still have electricity to at least run some basic items. In about 2 weeks we begin to listen to proposals from 3 different companies. Our electric usage in our 3 hottest months July - Sept. averages 51 kWh per day and in our coldest months, Dec. - Feb. we average 32 kWh/day. These averages are over the last 2 years. I just retired so I will be home and using a bit more electricity during the days.

What questions do you suggest I ask of the sales people who will be making presentations to us? I would love to hear from those of you who have a system in place.

[realist]

I'm going to hang onto your coat-tails and learn something.

[bacpacker]

Subscribed to this thread. Gotta be some good stuff come thru.

Things I have thought about if I ever get to that point. If grid tied, what needs to be done to separate and add batteries? What kind of tracking mechanisim they provide? This is a very important issue. good friend of mine (retired engineer) bought 4 different 85 watt panels to experiment with to power his EmComm station at home. He performed lots of testing on all 4, including tracking the sun with them. As opposed to just facing them due south, he found that moving them to track the sun at least every two hours he gained nearly 50% more power. Every hour was near 60% more. This was on the most productive panel of the 4. My guess is an automated tracker would be very valuable indeed to a whole house system.

[Domeguy]

All of the above for sure, but my first question would be warranties on all of the components, including also the labor and installation. The batteries warantee will be an important one. I would ask if the inverter will be a large one unit piece, or will they use individual micro inverters on each panel, and have them tell you why they prefer their choice. If you are wanting battery feed back when the power goes out, ask about the installation process as to how the are planning to wire the unit to prevent feedback into the grid. I've heard of some power companies not liking this kind of system due to possible feedback to the grid while a repair is being done to the downed grid at the same time. Also check into the efficiency and consumer reports of all the package components involved.
They will most likely want to mount stationary roof mounted racks to save them time, but do ask about a pole mounted sun tracking system, and when they tell you you don't need that, ask them to prove why not. Also ask about lightening protection.
How old is your roof? Do you have a well ventilated area for the battery bank, and approximately how far is that area from the fuse box?

[Katrina]

Don't forget to check what your local, state laws are concerning "alternative" energy. Where I'm at ALL alternative energy(read solar, wind) MUST be grid tied. I am still trying to find the email of a company out of Livonia that does "portable" generator/converters for the Army. A "portable" doesn't have to be grid-tied and what I remember from the show I went to they have units that can be added on to increase the amount of energy produced and still not be grid tied. Just learned from my brother they are required to be grid tied in NV as well and the electric company is dragging their feet on the converters for the solar panels they installed.Bro says it's because they don't want to pay the customer for the excess electricity.

[Domeguy]

The way you are purchasing the system seems pretty sweet. Must be a California green thing, we don't have any kind of programs like that in my area of Tennessee. Looks like it will be 100% from the checkbook when the time comes. Also, I forgot to ask about solar hot water heating for you in your area. Have you looked into that? Even if you have gas hot water, you can't beat free energy from the sun.

[realist]

Katrina why does everything have to be grid tied? Is that in order to get some sort of subsidy? If everything has to be grid tied then it is like back in the 30's, no I'm not that old, when some people were forced to get on the grid.

[Katrina]

realist,
I was told by several of the companies at the show I went to it's part of the deal that the utility companies struck with the state to provide less expensive energy. It's about controlling the flow of power and money, I mean if I can go "off-grid" how does Consumers power collect money from me or from anybody for that matter. the people I talked to were talking about whole house systems but I was looking for power to keep the sump running in case the city shuts down the services like in Sandy Hook. My generator won't work if the gas is off. We've done enough "rough" camping that I can deal with no stove,lights or central heating but the sump?? My basement would flood in a matter of a couple of hours. Been there, did that,never again if I can help it.

[realist]

Its weird I had a guy over a couple of years ago to give me a quote on a system. When I told him I wanted it off the grid he gave me a blank look and asked why. He could not ever see when there would be a time of extended power outage. Why, because of my solar system. Well bucko you need to understand if I do not have storage batteries then I can't run my stuff, Oh......... I didn't buy.

[Katrina]

Good for you realist. Socal, just keep us abreast of your progress, am very interested how it turns out.

[Socalman]

I will keep you all posted. I have three appointments scheduled in the next 2 1/2 weeks to listen to the pitch. As I stated in an earlier post, my goals are:

1. Lower my cost of electricity.
2. While being tied to the grid, I want a system that will operate independent of the grid (think extra $$$)
3. I want to own the system, not lease it or purchase electricity from another party.

[Sniper-T]

Here's some random tidbits from around here for local off grid...

We have Manitoba Hydro, as our electricity carrier. All based off our hydro electric dams, and sold to 1/2 of Canada, and a good chunk of US... and several big chunks more coming soon.

If I want to set up solar or wind systems of my own, they will not subsidize, but they will buy power from me at a 'decent' price. But, to do so... they tie in BEFORE my system, so I am cool in regular times, they buy my power and sell me theirs... but if part of the grid goes down, they still take my power first, and would ship back any surplus to me. Assuming a surplus.

I can set up all the solar I want, And go off grid if I want. but couldn't sell surplus to hydro this way. They would buy my power at x value, sell me theirs at y value. and if their supply went down, they stop supplying me

While it sounds great to sell your power to the giant, know, that they are paying you x-y for your power, but charging you x+y for theirs.

bastards!

[Domeguy]

Sniper, I just caught this response tonight, and I'm shocked. At least in my area, and I believe most of the US, any home hooked up with grid tied solar, MUST be equipped somehow to disconnect from the main grid to prevent back feed into the grid in case of a grid problem. This prevents the repair men from getting fried repairing any lines.

- - - Updated - - -

SoCal, any word on the solar power you were hoping to get?

[Kesephist]

Sniper, I just caught this response tonight, and I'm shocked. At least in my area, and I believe most of the US, any home hooked up with grid tied solar, MUST be equipped somehow to disconnect from the main grid to prevent back feed into the grid in case of a grid problem. This prevents the repair men from getting fried repairing any lines.

I'd wager, good Dome, that the cutoff in question is probably at the POLE, not at the HOME. Why, "mere" client-employee power consumers might actually come up with the idea that they have a CHOICE when and how much power to use...

In an apartment complex such as mine the matter is a moot. WHEN it comes time to budge, part of my cartload will be solars, batteries and such. Small fry, no grid stuff.

[Sniper-T]

^
That is correct.

[Domeguy]

At the time I went to school, the automatic shut down was built into the inverters. But that was about 10 yrs ago, and a lot has changed since than. But you said when the grid goes down, they still take your power first. But if the grid goes down, your system should shut down and shouldn't be putting any power into the grid, even if the shut off is at the pole. If it does, it called Islanding, and unless it's been pre wired through the fuse panel to keep powering key items like necessary medical equipmentonly, the inverter should shut down if it senses a power failure. So they shouldn't be able to take your power if none is generated. That was my point, or am I missing something?

[Kesephist]

^
That is correct.

An accuracy I take neither pride nor pleasure in. It is infuriating.

Were me, I'd take the hit of having to have a NG generator on premises as backup to a solar stack and tell NV Energy to go pound titanium shavings. At least with NG you HAVE to have at least the control at the meter, if not one or two at the generator...on YOUR side.

[Domeguy]

I still don't understand? If you are grid tied, it should shut down in a grid down situation. Period. While you are generating power, and still need more, you draw it. If you generate more than you need you sell it. If the grid goes down, so do you. You don't win, but you don't loose either.

Edit. Sniper, I have reread you post about 20 times. When you say"if part of the grid goes down", do you mean local within 1-10 miles, (or your kilometer things you use) or do you mean several hundred?

[tc556guy]

Within the month we will make a final decision on a solar electric system for our home. I do not intend to rent or lease, it will be a purchase. Not sure if the H.E.R.O. program is a national or state program but we have been approved for the loan, low cost, billed on property tax and becomes a tax deduction. In about 2 weeks we begin to listen to proposals from 3 different companies.

We will be tied into the grid, but I want a system that will not be grid dependent as when, not if, the grid goes down I still have electricity to at least run some basic items.

I'm looking into solar now; the sales rep that was just here said that without a whole lot more gear like battery banks, etc, as soon as the grid goes down the panels they're putting on houses around here are designed to shut down so that any utility people are working on the lines are not affected by juice back-feeding from the house. I already have a switch panel for the generator that isolates the house from the pole. The sales rep said I can upgrade to a system that can run isolated from the pole, completely off-grid, but that almost no one they're selling panels to around here does that because of the additional costs. From what he is saying, between the Federal rebate and state credits, I can expect to get about 45% of the cost of the system knocked off.

[Kesephist]

Solar's getting rough times out here in NV, as NV Energy doesn't want to pay for the power that comes from home solar, nor do they want to pay the subsidies for the original installation, so they have launched this whole "solar guys are the enemy, cause we HAVE to meet the subsidies and thus have to raise your prices."

Correct, as far as it goes. More accurately would be "raise your prices to keep our profits skyhigh, instead of just high".

NV Energy, the new Enron.

M@+#3RF(_){|{3R$.

[Domeguy]

tc...if I my ask, what state, country, or exoplanet do you live on, in, or near? It might help others to think about and make the push to solar.

[tc556guy]

tc...if I my ask, what state, country, or exoplanet do you live on, in, or near? It might help others to think about and make the push to solar.

Upstate NY

[realist]

Have you taken a look at this???
https://www.tesla.com/powerwall

I am trying to figure out just how many panels I will have to have to keep it operational. It does not look bad and the price is reasonable. I figure with the new battery technology coming out this may be the way to go.

What do you think??

[Domeguy]

The last I had heard, it sounds like a good idea, but just one of the batteries would not be powerful enough to power but just a few things for a short period of time. But they would however be able to be linked into others in a row to make one large battery. But then the costs go up also. I think they are on the tight track, and soon there will be a true breakthrough in battery technology that will be the true saving grace to the world. They are very close, just not quite there yet.

[jamesneuen]

So, new thing on the scene is "gravity generators". All surplus energy is used to wind a series of gigantic counterweights. Then when you dont have energy they wind down and turn an alternator by themselves. Looks pretty promising.

[Kesephist]

The last I had heard, it sounds like a good idea, but just one of the batteries would not be powerful enough to power but just a few things for a short period of time. But they would however be able to be linked into others in a row to make one large battery. But then the costs go up also. I think they are on the tight track, and soon there will be a true breakthrough in battery technology that will be the true saving grace to the world. They are very close, just not quite there yet.

Supercapacitors.

- - - Updated - - -


So, new thing on the scene is "gravity generators". All surplus energy is used to wind a series of gigantic counterweights. Then when you dont have energy they wind down and turn an alternator by themselves. Looks pretty promising.

Very large and efficient flywheels?

"Free energy"... Second Law of Thermodynamics, everyone?

[jamesneuen]

No, completely different concept than the scam artist things. These are actually already in use. Look them up.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

[Domeguy]

James, I tried to look them up yesterday, and could find very little info. I was mostly getting stuff to fight the effects of gravity. Do you have any links to share?

[jamesneuen]

http://www.gravitybattery.info

Sorry, battery not generator. Stores surplus energy in giant counterweights until needed. Looks like a really neat alternative to a battery bank.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

[Stormfeather]

OK, forgive me if Im mistaken, but if the grid goes down, and you have a power transfer switch, cant you just keep making energy for yourself as long as the switch has been thrown? Personally Im looking into a NG backup generator for the house, too much trees to make solar an option

[Domeguy]

Well Stormy, my book learnin is a bit old, but when I went to school, the inverters had the electrical components inside that allowed just that type of action. They can do this to power key loads such as emergency medical devices and things like a freezer, and not send anything back to the grid. This would work for solar or a generator. You would either need to pre wire circuits in the main panel, have the power go to a separate panel, or just have an extension cord or two that then could power the devices that need the constant power. The next step up from that would be a non grid tied system where you keep it all...all of the time. The main problem with all of this is even if you have a "transfer power switch", you need to make sure you are not back feeding or "islanding" power back into the grid. This could kill a utility worker who is working on a power line he thinks is dead.

[Kesephist]

Excerpted from bullionstacker.com about a post 'cane solar setup... but which I imagine could be used 24/7 too

"1500 watt pure sine inverter, one I know is RF quiet so you can receive radio signals https://www.solarblvd.com/products/saml ... verter-ul/ $455.33

Charge controller https://www.solarblvd.com/products/blue ... ontroller/ $178

Cheap deep cycle boat battery from Walmart $150ish...

Pair of 180 watt solar panels https://www.solarblvd.com/products/sola ... panel2018/ $312

$1,095 + shipping(maybe another $60), find a portable box to mount it all in just about anywhere... those rolling tool boxes with a big drawer on the bottom for the battery work well. Can make a portable stand for the solar panels, just make sure it is well weighted down so wind can't tip it. Or make a permanent rack and only mount the panels when needed after the storm has passed."

Lady that posted is an absolute maven on matters solar.

[Kesephist]

Redoing the previous post, as I can't apparantly edit it once it has been liked.....

""Excerpted from bullionstacker.com about a post 'cane solar setup... but which I imagine could be used 24/7 too

"1500 watt pure sine inverter, one I know is RF quiet so you can receive radio signals

https://www.solarblvd.com/products/samlex-pst-1500w-12v-pure-sine-wave-inverter-ul/

$455.33

Charge controller

https://www.solarblvd.com/products/blue-sky-solar-boost-2512i-25a-12v-3-stage-charge-controller/

$178

Cheap deep cycle boat battery from Walmart $150ish...

Pair of 180 watt solar panels

https://www.solarblvd.com/products/solar-cynergy-180-watt-12v-monocrystalline-solar-panel2018/

$312


$1,095 + shipping(maybe another $60), find a portable box to mount it all in just about anywhere... those rolling tool boxes with a big drawer on the bottom for the battery work well. Can make a portable stand for the solar panels, just make sure it is well weighted down so wind can't tip it. Or make a permanent rack and only mount the panels when needed after the storm has passed."

Lady that posted is an absolute maven on matters solar. ""

There, fixed with proper links.

[Domeguy]

Looks like these put together with the proper sized wires should give you a solid unit that should provide the power you are needing.

[Kesephist]

A slight modification from the previous posts, reflecting price changes and substitutions of size.

---

Radio safe pure sine wave inverter

https://www.solarblvd.com/products/samlex-pst-1500w-12v-pure-sine-wave-inverter-ul/

$456

---

Charge controller

https://www.solarblvd.com/products/blue-sky-solar-boost-2512i-25a-12v-3-stage-charge-controller/

$179

---

Cheap deep cycle boat battery from Walmart

$100

---

3 x 120 watt solar panels

https://www.solarblvd.com/products/solar-cynergy-120-watt-12-volt-solar-panel-2/

$269.97


~$1,005 before taxes...

[bacpacker]

Thanks for the links Keep! solarblvd.com looks to have plenty of goodies.