Stuck in a bowl

[Domeguy]

I have been trying to set up comms with some other people in my area with my ham radios. I decided to get my liscence last year, but that didn't make my radios (Yaesu ft-60r) receive any better for some reason. Even taking them up to the very top of the ridge with a portable antenna, I could only transmit and receive a short distance with their limited 5w power. I have upgraded the power to a 75w Yaesu ft-2900r, operating in the 2 meter band. I am upgrading the antenna to a slim Jim copper j-pole antenna which should be in sometime next week. I have a telescoping 30 ft tower I will use short term until I can get a perminate steel tower installed. I am hoping with increased power, increased height with an increased antenna, I can receive and transmit out of this geographic bowl I seem to be in. If that does not work, I have drawn up some pretty impressive plans for a wide reaching network of my own design, that I came up with as a kid. I can't say much yet, as I am still waiting to hear back from my investors, the Dixie Cup Co., and the Acme String Consortium.

[jamesneuen]

Actually, we used a system you might be interested in. We used it to look for drug boats when no aircraft support was available.

We took a camera with a 360 degree control, mounted it underneath a weather balloon before inflating it with helium and using the cable as a "string". We could see for miles using the zoom on the camera.

I'm not saying to do it for surveillance purposes but I imagine 5 or 6 of the 12inch diameter balloons from the dollar store could get your antenna pretty high up there without all this fancy shmancy equipment.

Take that with a grain of salt and if your wife asks how you managed to run a wire over the trees to a power line 200 feet away and shock yourself, I know nothing.

[bacpacker]

DG, how far are you below the top of the ridge? Are you really down in a bowl most all the way around? How big of a tower are you planning? Is it gonna put you over the ridge line?

Increasing your power will help. Improving your antenna will help a great deal more. Make certain you use a high grade coax to feed the antenna as well. RG-8X or better. Coax can be very lossy if you go with a low grade coax. VERY BAD.

VHF (2M) does not do well trying to go thru a hill side. It is line of site only. You really need to get it up over the ridge.

[ak474u]

Actually, we used a system you might be interested in. We used it to look for drug boats when no aircraft support was available.

We took a camera with a 360 degree control, mounted it underneath a weather balloon before inflating it with helium and using the cable as a "string". We could see for miles using the zoom on the camera.

I'm not saying to do it for surveillance purposes but I imagine 5 or 6 of the 12inch diameter balloons from the dollar store could get your antenna pretty high up there without all this fancy shmancy equipment.

Take that with a grain of salt and if your wife asks how you managed to run a wire over the trees to a power line 200 feet away and shock yourself, I know nothing.


That's not a terrible idea. Not sure how much you could lift as high as you need it, but when I was selling new homes, we had balloons we called "cloud busters" they were probably 3' across, and they'd lift that heavy streamer (think the stuff car lots use with the little triangle flags) a couple hundred feet up. I pulled it down at night, and put it in the model home garage. It would last about 3 weeks and didn't lose too much lift over that time.

[Stg1swret]

As was said earlier, the transmission line (coax), and antenna will be more important than how much power you are pushing. Signal loss and SWR are the biggest problem to solve in order to reach out a great distance. Every 3db loss cuts your power in half.

[Domeguy]

DG, how far are you below the top of the ridge? Are you really down in a bowl most all the way around? How big of a tower are you planning? Is it gonna put you over the ridge line?

Increasing your power will help. Improving your antenna will help a great deal more. Make certain you use a high grade coax to feed the antenna as well. RG-8X or better. Coax can be very lossy if you go with a low grade coax. VERY BAD.

VHF (2M) does not do well trying to go thru a hill side. It is line of site only. You really need to get it up over the ridge.

Last week I stopped in at Gigga Parts an picked up 1- 150', and 1- 100' good coax. I drilled into the house, and fed it into the hole, and started up the hill with the rest. I was able to make to to about 20' from the top in distance, and have my antenna temp. on a PVC pole tied to a tree about 12' of the ground. That puts it about 3-4 feet above the ridge which is at about 864 ft. But I still can't get out to Lynchburg and Fayetteville, as the ridge over that way is at 1033'. When I go mobile and go to the top of it, I can transmit and receive to Fayetteville and farther. So I'm going to have to find away to de-molecularize that entire ridge.

[bacpacker]

DG, sounds like a start. How close is the antenna to the tree trunk? What direction inynchberg in relation to the tree/ antenna? What kind of antenna do you have?
VHF is a strange animal. It don't like hills other than the top, trees with leaves, etc. Also you can have high losses in effective power due to poor quality coax, really long runs of coax, poor antennas, poor or multiple connectors. There are so many things that can have an effect to some degree. Using a high quality coax is an excellent step. Keep your runs as short as possible with VHF. I've never used more than 100', so I don't know how much 250' will affect you. I do know for every 3db loss from your antenna system you loss 50% effective power. 250' is 150% longer than my expereince. You also should keep the number of connections as low as possible. I also use only gold plated connectors. I have saw a lot of difference in them and any other. Also depending on antenna, which can be anywhere from 0db or even a loss, up to maybe 9db for an omni non directional. 9db is a huge improvement over zero. If you have to reach a given location you may have to resort to some type of directional antenna. That way all energy is focused in one direction. Down side to that, you can't do much any other direction.
Thanks for the update. Keep at it. Good job.

[jamesneuen]

Or we could tell trump there are terrorists on that ridge and he would gladly just carpet bomb it all.

[Domeguy]

Or we could tell trump there are terrorists on that ridge and he would gladly just carpet bomb it all.

Nah...he will put up a wall, and just make it harder to get through to the other side.

[Kesephist]

DG, sounds like a start. How close is the antenna to the tree trunk? What direction inynchberg in relation to the tree/ antenna? What kind of antenna do you have?
VHF is a strange animal. It don't like hills other than the top, trees with leaves, etc. Also you can have high losses in effective power due to poor quality coax, really long runs of coax, poor antennas, poor or multiple connectors. There are so many things that can have an effect to some degree. Using a high quality coax is an excellent step. Keep your runs as short as possible with VHF. I've never used more than 100', so I don't know how much 250' will affect you. I do know for every 3db loss from your antenna system you loss 50% effective power. 250' is 150% longer than my expereince. You also should keep the number of connections as low as possible. I also use only gold plated connectors. I have saw a lot of difference in them and any other. Also depending on antenna, which can be anywhere from 0db or even a loss, up to maybe 9db for an omni non directional. 9db is a huge improvement over zero. If you have to reach a given location you may have to resort to some type of directional antenna. That way all energy is focused in one direction. Down side to that, you can't do much any other direction.
Thanks for the update. Keep at it. Good job.


Would that there were some gadget you could install inline to boost the signal. Battery powered, of course, and would need to either change out the battery every so oft or have a solar panel to keep it fed...

[bacpacker]

You can add an amplifier, but they are connected to the output of the radio, then coax, antenna. I know of nothing that will go in line as a booster. The best thing possible is to cut losses as much as possible and have a good antenna in a clear area. Every bit of it is a compromise of what you need to accomplish and how much money you have to get it.