Caves? Yes or No?

[LUNCHBOX]

Have you been in a cave? Do you have them near you? Would you use one? Trust one?

My take....temporary at best, you would be cornered, possible collapse. IDK....just to many negatives. How about you?

[RedJohn]

A cave is one of the best options in case of troubles if you don't have a BOL, IMHO.

[bacpacker]

I have to go with RJ. Caves would be pretty constant temps, out of wind and weather, and ready made. If they don't have a second enterance you could be cornered, but other than critters I can't think of any others negatives. I try and go to as many caves as I can, both commercial and not. I think there cool and are very nice on a hot day.

[LUNCHBOX]

I don't disagree completely...I've just seen where the heat from a fire can make the stone crack and fall. I like checking them out also.

[RedJohn]

I am talking natural caves. are you?

[bacpacker]

Agreed fires would need to be kept small, less smoking as well. Something else I keep an eye out for when hiking is what I call a rock house. It' nothing more than a rock overhang where the soil or rock itself has eroded away. They will provide some decent shelter for a quick set up. I know you go to the Red River Gorge to hike, that place should be covered with them. I know the Big South Fork is down here. They have very similar terrian.

[Grumpy Old Man]

Jerry has a story about a guy who uses a cave in his BOL, which take place in southern MO. My concern with caves is that reptiles like to hole up in them. The same can be said for old mine adits. I have up close and personal experience with buzzworms in old mines- not fun!!!! On the other hand they make an expedient source of food when you find them. Caves and mines can also be used as fallout shelters with a little improvisation. Using a hobo stove in them is also easy as is a Coleman stove or a whisperlite type of stove. Uniform temperature also serves to minimize the fuel required to keep warm.

So.. there are tradeoffs to caves, but by and large I wouldn't dismiss them out of hand- they could be a prime BOL. I just can't stand buzzworms!!!

[RedJohn]

Caves: Animals use them, Neanderthal used them for thousand of years, Afghans are still using them. They work real well. If the one entrance can be a problem, it is also a good tactical advantage.

Just my opinion though.

[The Stig]

I spent the night in a cave back in cub scouts.

Freaked me out to no end.

[Kodiak]

Don't forget about flash floods, if a cave has flowing water in it that would be a concern.

[bacpacker]

Good point. Water is what created the caves in the first place. Although some of them go dry over the years.

[RedJohn]

If I were to choose a cave as a bug out location, I would only use one that will be way up in the mountains. Any water stream located nearby would not be a flood problem.

[Dropy]

When i lived in the western end of Virginia we found a cave on a farmers property. We spent MANY days and hours in that cave. Eventually we found that by squeezing behind a certain rock the cave continued on. We spent MANY MANY Nights exploring. Found and underground stream, MANY stalagmites and stalagtites as well as mineral pools. Some of the rooms in that was amazing. Even had an underground stream in it. We never found the end to it, though several times we had to belly crawl under or over obstacles to move forward more.

I would deffinately consider a cave for a BOL.

[faster]

unless they are quite small and "unfindable", or in a VERY remote area, too many people know about them for me to be interested. Instead, create and shore up your own small dugout, right where you want it. So it takes a week of night work, on your vaction, so what?

[ladyhk13]

unless they are quite small and "unfindable", or in a VERY remote area, too many people know about them for me to be interested. Instead, create and shore up your own small dugout, right where you want it. So it takes a week of night work, on your vaction, so what?

I am assuming you don't know much about caves or have never been in a "real" cave. In our area we have lots of them on private land but usually it's only the locals that know exactly where they are. My DH and I have been looking for land and one of the things we would LOVE to have is a cave. One of them we went into we were the 7th and 8th documented people in it. It's never been surveyed and is HUGE where once you get past the bellycrawling part you could fit tractor trailers in the first "room" and go from there. Most natural caves are very stable and if you are lucky you can find a "air hole" - a hole that leads to surface where your smoke from a fire can escape.
Mine shafts on the other hand are or can be very dangerous...was on a property yesterday with 3 of them...DH just had to go into one of them before we left. It was mined 25 years ago but they hit water so they stopped and water has been coming out ever since...there were several passageways once he got in there but the ceiling is different than in a natural cave and not as stable....I couldn't wait for him to get out.
Caves keep a constant temp of around 56 degrees so they make great storage places. If you had to seek shelter in them you could survive in them summer or winter (I'm a whimp so I would need blankets). I would take a cave any day over some hole dug in the ground. Unless that hole in the ground was a finished bunker that is. Oh and by the way,,,,I would never want a "small" cave...I would want a huge one. I don't want to be crawling around on my stomach through tunnels and crap. I want to walk and be able to drive a 4 wheeler and haul all my crap in there...I'm not roughing it if I don't have to.

[Sniper-T]

like anything else, a cave would need a survey prior to occupation. I like to explore old abandoned farm buildings when out hunting... a 150 year old building abandoned for the last 50 isn't something you just walk in and stomp around in. I would treat a cave the same.

But If I did have one close, accessable, and servicable, I would certainly use it.

you can also rent a core drill from most heavy equipment rental places, bolt it on the ceiling, and drill yourself a smoke hole easily enough. With some effort and a pile of extensions you can drill a 3" hole through 30' of rock in a couple hours.

[Stormfeather]

I remember a few years ago, there was a cave for sale on ebay, and it was a HUGE one, it actually had a house incorporated into it and was used as a indoor underground concert hall. I will see if I can find the old link to it and post it here!

quick find!

Cave Home In St. Louis: Family Struggles To Pay For Secluded House (SLIDESHOW) (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/27/cave-home-in-st-louis-fam_n_170518.html)

The Cave House - For Sale - Jean Noreen - Bisbee Realty - (800) 728-8537 (http://www.thecavehouse.com) is another cave home for sale.

[ladyhk13]

Yes, we have seen these...we look on a regular basis for them.. there is a site that specializes in these types of homes:

Green Homes for Sale - Find a Green Home (http://www.greenhomesforsale.com)

We have also looked at old missle silos but most of them have very little land so that wouldn't work for us...so we keep searching.

As far as drilling the air hole ourselves from the inside up 30' ft (which many caves can be 100' or more deep) I don't know if that's a job I would want to tackle. I think that I would feel better leaving that to a professional. I think I would be a little better at the exploring part just as long as I didn't have to go through really tight tunnels. But it's always fun when ya have a few people!


I remember a few years ago, there was a cave for sale on ebay, and it was a HUGE one, it actually had a house incorporated into it and was used as a indoor underground concert hall. I will see if I can find the old link to it and post it here!

quick find!

Cave Home In St. Louis: Family Struggles To Pay For Secluded House (SLIDESHOW) (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/27/cave-home-in-st-louis-fam_n_170518.html)

The Cave House - For Sale - Jean Noreen - Bisbee Realty - (800) 728-8537 (http://www.thecavehouse.com) is another cave home for sale.

[Optimist]

The year-round temperature is a big plus in any of the earth-sheltered dwellings, natural or built.