Defense

[LUNCHBOX]

I was discussing armor with my brother and brought a question to mind for the colony....

I know most everyone is geared towards the offensive chain of thought, best weapon, chest rig, nice pack. The question is..........

Do any of you use/have armor?

I have both soft armor and hard plates.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

Hmmmmmm? Good question, however based on the code of conduct and the oath that I took I am only required to give specific information to the enemy. There for, "Brownwater Riverrat 13, Senior Chief Petty Officer (one each), serial number 123-45-6789!"
So in the interest of OPSEC I'll refrain from answering that one. :cool:

Who loves ya Baby? (Kojak) Ooops, forgot my lolypop!:p

[ak474u]

I've got both. My level 2a vest is expired, not gonna throw it out, but wouldn't ask a buddy to shoot it to make sure it works at this point. Lol. Hope it never comes to the point of NEEDING it but I've got hard plates in a chest rig as part of my setup.

[LUNCHBOX]

Ak, since you mentioned it....me and another buddy actually put rounds into an expired panel and it worked just fine. Of course, this is by no means a qualified test or voucher for anyone elses gear. lol

[ElevenBravo]

I dont have any, wish I did have some, dont have the money, will construct my operations around the lack of armor... thus, watch your back whilst I sneak up on you because I wont be going toe to toe.

I have this book, it is AWESOME!

https://www.amazon.com/Special-Forces-Guerrilla-Warfare-Manual/dp/0873649214

See, were (you, me and millions of other patriots) wont have support like the "real military" does... supply, medical, logistics, etc.. etc..

The "real army" fires thousands of rounds to hit hundreds of targets... We cant just call back for another 5 cases of ball, so we cant behave like that.

Thats the mind set anyway.

So whats the alternative? Small group guerrilla tactics folks... You sneak in close, take out 2 or 3 of the platoon and beat feet. Do this randomly and you should not have incurred any casualties and still made an impact on the enemy.

Brings to mind two important concepts:
1) Eat an elephant one fork at a time
2) Live to fight another day

That is all...
EB

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

MY advice, go back and watch the second "Red Dawn" and see how the procure their inventory. To steal some quotes, "You keep what you kill", "Claim, claim, Claim", "You weren't using it anyway", "only used once", etc.

I was in a "mood" the other night after something else happened and it (Red Dawn) came on "regae" TV so I grabbed the DVD so I could watch the uncut version. It put me back in the mindset again. I'm sure it was HILLARY......this whole election thing has got me seriously bugged!

[realist]

I like US Armor Level IIIA soft body armor. Do not get the level II it is a waste. I have used a Safariland heavy vest with Protech level III plates, they are big and bulky but do the job. The US Armor poly plates will stop the same thing and are half the weight. If you are going to order plates I suggest only the poly plates because of their durability. Ceramic plates although they will stop rifle rounds they are fragile. Ceramic will crack if dropped and even in heavy use they can crack. Steel plates are just too heavy. Now most people wear soft armor and then a light sturdy plate carrier with plates. It makes a very nice package.

As for shooting vests, I generally shoot a vest to demonstrate the effects of handgun, shotgun and rifle rounds on them several times a year. I have yet to have a vest not stop a handgun round. We shot a vest two weeks ago which was made the late 90s and it worked. FYI they all stop shotgun slugs, you just do not want to be wearing it when it is shot......

[Sniper-T]

The best body armour in the world wont stop a head shot (planned or accidental)

Easy for me to say... I don't have any. It is on the list, but not very high up it.

[Fidel MD]

This is a general commentary, not a criticism of anyone.

Too often, people focus on the SuperHyperTactiKewl stuff, weapons and cammo and armor. Those are important, but I've seen too many people worry about that before they have water, food, shelter, first aid, and most importantly:

SKILLS.

I've been a prepper for .... well, all my life. I grew up on SAC target bases, when the risk was much higher than since the Vietnam war.

My body armor was one of the very last major expense items I acquired. Because it wasn't that important.

Why worry about armor if you don't know how to navigate? How to communicate? If you don't have a source of water? Sufficient food for you and your family?

A couple years supply of LTS food isn't cheap, it isn't especially fun to have, but its probably more important to your survival than a plate carrier.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

I concur with both you and Sniper, I've also talked before about "shot placement" ........Izzy is at a funeral today for a LEO that was killed for just that reason. He was hit in the neck and that's all there was to it. Above the the body armor........RIP.

[Vodin]

MY advice, go back and watch the second "Red Dawn" and see how the procure their inventory. To steal some quotes, "You keep what you kill", "Claim, claim, Claim", "You weren't using it anyway", "only used once", etc.

I was in a "mood" the other night after something else happened and it (Red Dawn) came on "regae" TV so I grabbed the DVD so I could watch the uncut version. It put me back in the mindset again. I'm sure it was HILLARY......this whole election thing has got me seriously bugged!

Should it come to that point this is an excellent procurement tactic :)

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

"Patients is a virtue" which was blazoned on my Penton motocross jersey. I finally beat that "one" guy, Robert Westermen. That is not the days I want to come as you mentioned above however, be patient and you'll probably get more gear than you originally bargained for. You'll expend less energy and BB's..............weedhopper.

Then quickly and silently slip away............

[bacpacker]

Rat is right. The officer that was killed here was working a domestic incident and was hit by a well placed shot, whether intentional or just bad luck. Bad deal, 32 years old and left 3 young kids behind. Dumbass that shot him probably won't even get life out of it. Lots of raw nerves around here right now. It is nice seeing surrounding counties sending help here to help cover for LEO's attending the funeral.

I don't have any armour, got to many other things that seem higher priority to me. Just cant justify the price with other stuff I need. Not to say I don't want it and haven't looked at it. Just gotta wait till it makes it to the top of the list.

[LUNCHBOX]

I understand about the pricing and priorities. I've just been lucky and came across numerous brands or I probably would wait also. I have a couple stab vests now I don't use.

[Fidel MD]

FWIW, I often see police wearing their armor way too low....It's not comfortable and it's not supposed to be stylish....but you can survive being shot in the lower abdomen far better than the upper heart.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

Correct, it's not about a being fashionably correct. It's about saving your ass. As for LB's post, hey, if you can get it at a good price, and you can afford to do it at the time, GET IT!

[Stormfeather]

luckily, I have body armor due to being in the military.

[Gunfixr]

I ran across a couple good deals, so I have some.
Hope I never need it.

Sent from my SGP612 using Tapatalk

[realist]

FWIW, I often see police wearing their armor way too low....It's not comfortable and it's not supposed to be stylish....but you can survive being shot in the lower abdomen far better than the upper heart.

Doc when you wrote this I wondered about it. I knew what you meant but I had not really noticed it. This past weekend I worked on an exercise called Urban Shield and was able to watch about 24 teams come through my station. The teams which were squared away had their equipment on correctly even after 36 hours. On the other hand the ones which did not wear their equipment correctly didn't do well either. So I agree with you sometimes they wear their vests too low, opening up their upper chest. Thanks for the observation.

[Fidel MD]

Doc when you wrote this I wondered about it. I knew what you meant but I had not really noticed it. This past weekend I worked on an exercise called Urban Shield and was able to watch about 24 teams come through my station. The teams which were squared away had their equipment on correctly even after 36 hours. On the other hand the ones which did not wear their equipment correctly didn't do well either. So I agree with you sometimes they wear their vests too low, opening up their upper chest. Thanks for the observation.


You're welcome - and your comments prove what I learned in a shooting class Thunder Ranch: Amateurs practice something until they get it right. Professionals practice something until they can't get it wrong.

[jamesneuen]

The other issue I see is that so many "Shooting Instructions" are out dated. The Coast Guard used a lot of old FBI training manuals from back before there was body armor.

Perfect example is when we shoot one-handed, almost every instructor teaches it the way the manual says to which is lining your body up directly behind the gun with your side/armpit exposed. To me that is just stupid and I always try to break people of that mindset. It leaves the weakest part of your body armor exposed.

I am happy to be done with the military but I am also sad that I no longer get to train on their dime. All of my training has to be funded out of my own thin pockets now. I will say though that the military did not skimp on the training. I learned a lot and got a fantastic chance to network with people I never would have met otherwise.

[Socalman]

You're welcome - and your comments prove what I learned in a shooting class Thunder Ranch: Amateurs practice something until they get it right. Professionals practice something until they can't get it wrong.

That is exactly the same thing musicians say.

[mitunnelrat]

I admittedly haven't kept up on this thread, and I'm coming late to the discussion, but I just recently purchased two level 3a pieces. One for "testing". Results will be posted after arrival and time found to do it. My informal range is closed until after November as well, so it might be a "minute".

[realist]

James you are right those are old tactics. Unfortunately so many people use old information to lean new techniques. There is nothing wrong with it from a historical perspective however when implementing it can get you killed. Why would you give up your armor, you might just want to take it off.

Then again when it comes to the Coast Guard they are stellar when it comes from shooting from a helicopter. My boss is one of the guys who initially wrote the policy for using the 50 cal against these boats.

http://www.military.com/video/forces/coast-guard/cg-shoots-go-fast-boats-engines/2560058210001

[jamesneuen]

yup, have to create policy and tactics if none exist.

[mitunnelrat]

My test plate is in, and the "range master" is interested in shooting it himself, so I might be cleared hot earlier than expected. Maybe not though. He's insisting I wear it while he shoots. Lol.

Pics and review to follow.