location, location, location

[mitunnelrat]

As usual, lots of good discussion was to be had in meeting ftf. This was one of them. It is also one staying at the forefront of my mind, considering that I'm finally going to get off my ass and purchase my own home next year. I've got some limitations based on having a fixed region I'll be relocating to, but even at that... when I did a "distance elimination" of locations in TN I learned the best area in that regard was also terrible with meth and related crime. So, there are trade offs.

Current plans run toward a defendable homestead with as many natural resources as possible, and from there a solid bug out location. That last, here in MI, does fall in well with distance requirements, so I'll start with those.

100 miles from populations of 500,000. +
75 miles from pop. Of 100,000 - 500,000
50 miles from pop. Of 50,000 - 100,000
25 miles from pop. Of 10,000 - 50,000, also interstates.
10 miles from pop. Of 5,000 - 10,000
5 miles from town
2-5 miles off any paved road

As I was saying, there is a region in MI that meets those parameters for a BO locatio, as well as having a decent hospital within 30 minutes by car. I'll work within these as best as I can in picking a home. What I'd like to hear from the colony is your thoughts on resources, defense, and any of the related miscellany I may not be considering.

Water is abundant where I'm looking. Mature fruit trees would be a plus, but hard woods for burning a necessity for heat. Acreage needs? Storage?

It's not particularly hilly terrain, so a high ground advantage may be a pipe dream. What other aspects are essentially for good defense. Accessibility and ? And whatnot.

We tend to agree on so much elsewhere I'll be interested to see if there's any difference of opinion here.

[Illini Warrior]

your "distance" chart was discounted 30 years ago ... you need to factor in more criteria than "I'm far enough away" - simple refugee flow mapping quikly shows the fallacy ....

just as a quik example - your "spot" is equal 100 miles distance from two major cities - with the usual road web of interstate and secondary roads ... when the two cities refugees collide in between they begin their spread or midpoint encampment - 250,000+ unprepared and bare azzed sheeple don't bode well for you ....

and that doesn't include FEMA - if there's time for Fed involvement for city evacuation - your area could be the destination for 10,000s of Section 8 sheeple with their hands out - depending on FEMA - good luck ....

[mitunnelrat]

First I've heard of that. Got any resources you can share for doing it? Searching gave me articles on Europe and Syrian refugees.

[Kesephist]

your "distance" chart was discounted 30 years ago ... you need to factor in more criteria than "I'm far enough away" - simple refugee flow mapping quikly shows the fallacy ....

just as a quik example - your "spot" is equal 100 miles distance from two major cities - with the usual road web of interstate and secondary roads ... when the two cities refugees collide in between they begin their spread or midpoint encampment - 250,000+ unprepared and bare azzed sheeple don't bode well for you ....

and that doesn't include FEMA - if there's time for Fed involvement for city evacuation - your area could be the destination for 10,000s of Section 8 sheeple with their hands out - depending on FEMA - good luck ....

The last even vaguely organized or even partial evacuation of a major city was London during the Blitz... and that was with a sizable % of them knowing of warfare and what to expect, given experiences from WWI, and a lot more give-a-damn about others than we are liable to see in the rest of our lifetimes. Even then, London was hardly rendered an empty shell.

New Orleans and Katrina should have been instructive enough about the situation in the US.

Pardon the bluntness, or not, but deriving a place to bug out to by formulae will not work.

[Illini Warrior]

The last even vaguely organized or even partial evacuation of a major city was London during the Blitz... and that was with a sizable % of them knowing of warfare and what to expect, given experiences from WWI, and a lot more give-a-damn about others than we are liable to see in the rest of our lifetimes. Even then, London was hardly rendered an empty shell.

New Orleans and Katrina should have been instructive enough about the situation in the US.

Pardon the bluntness, or not, but deriving a place to bug out to by formulae will not work.


???? - that's blind no facts formula planning is EXACTLY what you're proposing

you don't even factor in geography for crying out loud - 100 miles radius period - doesn't matter - crossing a couple of major rivers or a mountain pass just tends to serve as refugee flow hiderance - especially when state lines are crossed ....

100 miles is 3 gallons of gas and 1 1/2 hours of driving - that 100 miles is based on the BS premise that the Golden Horde will all be on foot for some reason ....

London wasn't evacuated during The Blitz - NOLA was - same same for the entire Gulf coastline east - so were parts of the NYC area .... what's your point - FEMA wouldn't evacuate a city? .... FEMA updates their city evac planning on a regular basis - get a copy and learn about the potential - that livestock auction barn down the road is on someone's list

[Kesephist]

My error... "by formulae ALONE"... And there were enough horror stories about the NOLA evacuation to merit it being filed under "clusterfuck".

FEMA's reputation is as toxic as its trailers.

Perhaps I'm not the best to have commented; I've managed to jam myself in a situation completely untenable for escape.

[mitunnelrat]

Illini, did you mistake Kes for me?

[bacpacker]

I'm Not sure of the mileage thing. Out west that might work great. Down here not as much. Wouldn't be a bad starting point anyway.

For land to really fit my wants/needs it needs a large spring fed pond at a minimum. Large springs and a creeks would be more in lines. Hardwood timber would be high on the list as well for multiple reasons, firewood, leaves for compost/mulch/long term dirt, wildlife habitat. I also want decent if not outright great soil. To me it's not worth having if you can't feed yourself from it. There are many others, orientation is a big one if you want solar power. Can help with food production as well.

[ak474u]

I would think that only a place that seemed uninhabitable to just about everyone would be safe. A hundred miles down a dirt road in the desert might be the only place someone, or many someones won't find you.

[helomech]

I feel pretty good about my location. 3 hours in a car from Houston or Dallas, but on foot that is a long ways. Our county has so many dirt roads that there is no way many people will be walking down them to find our place. I just wish I had a flowing spring.

[mitunnelrat]

Agreed on all counts. I started with the distance formula because 1. I know it. 2. I don't believe "distance from disorder" is really all that bad a thing.

[bacpacker]

Totally agree with more distance is better. But East of the Mississippi we are limited to some degree. Just too many people to get way way out.

[mitunnelrat]

True, but that is something I believe MI has an advantage in. Most of our border is watwrfront

[bacpacker]

That s true. Plus up in the UP, most places are fairly devoid of the masses. That's where I would be if I lived up there. Winters are rough, but that lends itself to other things as well.

[realist]

In training we always say distance it your friend. It gives you time to react either offensively or defensively. I like the idea of having distance from cities. However where I live things have grown up over time. Where we were a smaller town when we moved here it has now grown to over 100,000. I do have a place to go which is two hours north with a very small population. This has always been my fall back location. As for distance and travel with regard to MPG of the car. I have a truck and always use a figure of 10 MPG to get anywhere. This is derived from a two MPG buffer when I am towing a trailer of weight. When empty it goes up to 16 MPG. So for my trip of north I can still make it if I have a third of a tank.

Regarding FEMA evacuation. Years ago there was an report written on where people would be evacuated to in the event San Francisco and the surrounding area had to be evacuated. It was not pleasant to read. There are no large facilities up here so I have no clue where people would stay. I just know I would not want to be around.

[mitunnelrat]

FEMA relocation is a chance to may have to take. I'm not ready for a preset BOL anyway, so I have time to research and decide on that one.

My main concern, today, is getting established somewhere adequate to my needs. Food production, water source, and trees being the basics. Pretty easy to find that level here in MI. It's acreage I need to determine, defensive characteristics, etc. There is no getting away from pros entirely, but being able to limit interactions as much as possible is only prudent.

[mitunnelrat]

Boy, I slaughtered that post. No getting away from "people" entirely

[Kesephist]

Boy, I slaughtered that post. No getting away from "people" entirely

QUite all right.

Limiting dealing with other people is only prudent post SHTF. +/- of a preset BOL is the one same basic thing: the effort put forth into creating it. Wonderful if everything is there where you left it when you need it. Not so much if some damn gang of meth cookers or pot growers or other such find it and have settled on and/or looted the stuff there.

For a large enough group, as I have stated earlier and elsewhere, a trusted forward element of a caretaker or caretakers, will be worthwhile.

Risks all around. But there is risk in all things, despite what the nanny-state types and other special snowflakes (emphasis on that second syllable, there) would have folk believe.

Kesephist