How much if your own food do you grow?

[bacpacker]

Lets see some discussion on this topic.

[JustAPrepper]

As Newbie Gardeners, I'd say we are less than 25%...maybe 10% right now. Soil conditions are a big factor for us and we are working on it. Bugs, well, lets just say bugs either eat more of our harvest than we do or kill off our plants before anything can fruit. Gardening in Florida is a super huge, major challenge. We don't have enough frost/freeze days to kill of the critters so it's a CONSTANT battle. Not only have there been days when I wished I owned a Flame Thrower, I've actually dreamed about it. And I liked it. :mad:

[bacpacker]

I went with 25-50%. I grow a large garden every year, but looking at what it would take to live on for 2 folks for a year, I grow very little fruit right now, although I have planted several fruit trees and bushes. I do have an established vinyard but not a large one. I am also just getting started raising chickens and have started to get eggs, but I don't have a large enough flock to produce meat yet. I have no other animals for meat. There are some deer and turkey around, but I don't think they would last long.

Things are improving since last year, but still have a long way to go. I have located a share of a beef that will be coming later this year.

[The Stig]

Not sure how to translate this into a percentage.

Mrs Stig grows some basil in a pot out back.

So, say .00000001% ?

What do I win?

[ak474u]

I voted 0% because I wasn't sure rosemary, basil, and thai basil count as food. (i live in an apartment)

[ladyhk13]

Well I have grown apples, cukes, lettuce, yellow squash, black zuccini, broccoli, green and yellow beans, corn, tomatoes, potatoes, attempted red onions, have asparagus in now, attempted cauliflower, carrots, radishes, greek oregano, dill, sorrano peppers, sweet banana peppers, thai peppers, huckleberry, rosemary, lavender, lemon balm, aloe (for medicinal uses), pears (from the neighbors trees - they beg me to take them), eggs from my sister's chickens, this year I'm going to have my sister buy some extra chicks and have her add them to hers and I'll pay for them and pay for food since she's already raising them so I will have chicken meat. A neighbor has cows so we may talk to him about buying half a cow when he slaughters this year. We don't want to add animals on this property so it's easier for us to use the resources we have available to us and it's a win win for each party. I'm getting ready to plant German garlic so we'll see how that goes next year. I have tons of heirloom seeds put back for when the time comes and I have to grow our food.

[Grumpy Old Man]

I tend to grow tomatoes, cukes and squash with a venture into collards and turnips now. My work schedule limits how much I can put in and attend to properly. I do go wild edibles gathering. But most of what I supply myself comes from fishing. After my last tuna trip I'm pretty set for the next 6 months. But I'm putting in my winter garden right now, so more on that later. Also,I'm fighting the @#$%^%$#@@$ gophers for my garden. I don't want to use poison as Mad Max, my blue heeler, like to excavate and catch them.

I have my herbs in pots that I can bring inside when the weather is bad. I also have chives and such outside that can winter over. My mandarin orange tree doesn't give but about 50-60 oranges a year. But I had a bumper crop of strawberries this year. I use them as ground cover in front of the porch.

We also have this year used some open space we have at the plant to grow veggies and such. Sort of a community project, but here we have to fight the ground squirrels. We divvy up the produce between the guys who worked on the garden.

[bacpacker]

Herbs count as food. At a minimum they make most anything else taste better:). They also have many uses as herbal medicinals.

Glad to see the volume and variety being grown.

[LUNCHBOX]

I keep borrowing apples from my neighbors tree when he is at work, how much does that count?

[ravensgrove]

I run a small 8 family (in addition to our own) CSA and we raise chickens, ducks, pigs, cows, rabbits and goats. At this point I raise roughly 80% of our food, and certainly have some to barter I give alot away to the food bank. What I can't produce: coffee, grains, salt etc I buy in bulk. In the event shtf, I think we are well set to barter.

[bobthe]

I run a small 8 family (in addition to our own) CSA and we raise chickens, ducks, pigs, cows, rabbits and goats. At this point I raise roughly 80% of our food, and certainly have some to barter I give alot away to the food bank. What I can't produce: coffee, grains, salt etc I buy in bulk. In the event shtf, I think we are well set to barter.

just out of curiosity - i assume you buy your animals from some supplier - instead of doing your own breeding. any idea what size operation you would have to have in order to be totally self reliant?

[ravensgrove]

Um no we breed everything except the cows. I bought seed stock of everything minus cows and breed our own. The calves I get for $25 a piece as dairy orphans at days old. They are a real pain in the butt at first you have to tube then bottle feed them. With only 7 acres I can't breed cattle here, not enough room to hold a pair indefinitely.
I have:
6 does and 1 buck (goats)
6 does and 1 buck (rabbits)
1 rooster and 10 hens
3 drakes and 11 hens (these are new here, haven't raised ducklings yet out of these Muscovys but we had raised Pekins in the past)
1 sow and 1 boar AGH

We are a family of 5. Me, hubby, kids and Grandma. This feeds us all quite well with a good deal to sell.

[Gunfixr]

Nothing. While we have a yard, attempts to grow a garden did not fare out well. But then again, there's only a few inches of soil, and it's a real low area.
We could probably grow rice, if it were just hotter.
Post SHTF, in the city here, it wouldn't work. We die of sleep deprivation trying to keep watch over it.

[ravensgrove]

Now that I have the youngest off to school I will elaborate on how we acquired our stock.

I paid a pretty penny for registered goats/chickens/ducks/pigs/rabbits. They were worth every dime. What we don't eat we sell to the 4H crowd. I highly suggest people buy registered seed stock whenever possible specifically for this reason.

We started at this farm 4 years ago. This is what we hope will be our last farm, Hubby retires soon from the Army, so this is where we make our final self sufficient stand after having farmed all over the country.

As a kid my grandfather told me to only get one new breed I was unfamiliar with a year, take it through a full life cycle, then move on to a new breed. This has served me well in planning our little farm.
I started out with chickens, rabbits, and goats. The next year we did weaner pigs and we did those twice a year for two years. Second year we bought Holstein orphans. I 4H'd Herefords as a kid, and outside the fact I had a hell of a time scoring them as I grew them out....dairy cattle carry their weight odd, we finished them on grass and it is the best meat I have ever had. I bought them for $25 a piece had to tube feed them, which I do not recommend if you don't know how....and we harvested them at 18 months old topping over 1000 lbs a piece. Next year we are doing 15, bottle feeding here then moving to our sister farm who has 20 prime pasture acres.
This year we bought seedstock AGHs, they cost me a very pretty penny but in the end will ROI quickly with large litters. Also being registered we can sell any we don't raise out for meat. Particularly gilts which are selling on the west coast for $350 and up a piece. I went with the AGHs because they only get 300 lbs and are primarily a forest browse/pasture pig. We have 7 acres, 4 of which is PNW forest.

If I win the lottery, I am very interested in the mini jersey for our place. But the prices are astronomical. I've become somewhat of a go to person in our area on small holding livestock. I highly recommend mini livestock breeds for their sustainability. It takes less to carry them, however they do by and large have longer grow out rates, so its a long term proposition...like planting an orchard. With my AGH purchase this past year, I will be pork self sufficient in two years. In interim, I traded stud service from my little AGH for a couple pot bellys to raise out.

[bobthe]

6 does and 1 buck (goats)
6 does and 1 buck (rabbits)
1 rooster and 10 hens


that low a number is sustainable?
pretend we go through an EOTWAWKI event. assuming there isnt some sort of unforseen problem with the livestock, that small a number could let you breed and keep meat ont he table indefinitely?

[realist]

We raise beans, onions, tomatoes, carrots, cucumbers, three different types of melons, broccoli, chard, strawberries and corn. The corn I am going to experiment drying some and then grind it. It is a snap to just eat it off the cob but if I truly want to do it for the long term I need to be able to dry it and grind for corn meal. We also have apple (3), pear (1), nectarines (3), cherries (3) and pomegranates (5) trees. The trees are young and will not be producing to their fullest extent for about three or four years. This year we will be putting in 3 to 6 almonds trees. The almonds will give us nuts, no duh, but also oil. For those of you that garden do you keep a log of what you grow? We are starting this year so that we do not repeat our previous mistakes. We are also going to go organic, no not because we are in California. I figure that by growing only organic vegetables then I do not have to rely on commercial fertilizers and pesticides. I do draw the line with poison for the gophers....

As for animals we have a bunch of gophers, a few rats and a dog so the meat is sparse. I don't think the family will eat any of them. So it will be chickens for a start this year. My wife and I grew up on farms and ranches so we have experience. We just did not want to be tied down to a bunch of animals, you can't put them on a timer. I do want to purchase a half of steer this year. My neighbor raises goats so I want to try and get one for the freezer.

Bobthe you would be surprised how much food a bunch of chickens can generate. Obviously if you live in a cold climate that would put a dampers on their production. I figure that with 10 hens we will get at least 5 eggs a day. This will also allow you to have a couple of brood hens. Growing up we raised ducks and since we had zero money we live off of them. The nice thing is we had a freezer which in a TEOTWAWKI situation I assume I will not have. So that just means we would process them on a daily basis. At the time for a family of five we had approximately 75 ducks and that was all the meat we had for a family of six.

I only have a little experience with rabbits but I have never eaten them. They produce fast so I would think that with about six does I would be able to produce a bunch of meat. The goats that we raised were dairy goats that produced a lot of milk.

The one thing that I would want if we were doing this for the long term is to have a couple of bucks and roosters so I would not end up have inbreeding in the future. Yes I might be able to trade but I want to look at it from the worst case scenario.

Does anyone do anything with their corn stalks? I was thinking about using them as food for the animals. If you have any suggestions I would appreciate.

[ravensgrove]

Bob,

Goats breed twice a year and have 4-5 kids a piece. That's 60 goats to slaughter each year. Pigs breed up to 3 litters a year and have 10+ a piece thats up to 30 pigs a year out of my one sow. But as soon as we get a couple gilts out of her we will keep them, I want to have 4 total sows and the 1 boar. We have 15 Muscovys as well as the chickens, we're talking about a family of 4 here + grandma. We eat occassional poultry but their primary use is eggs. The rabbits breed constantly, I let them breed March through October. They have a litter roughly every 10 weeks, or 4-5 litters a piece. And have from 6-10 a piece in each litter. So that's for my 6 rabbit does anywhere from 150 on the low end to 300 on the high end rabbits to slaughter...a year... for a family of 4.
You don't need that much meat A...and B you don't need that much livestock to meet the needs of a family of 4. For instance, I just slaughtered 2 cows and plum filled...I mean PLUM 4 freezers...FOUR.

Now as to your hypothetical TEOTWAWKI scenario...no amount of livestock is going to let you breed indefinitely without influx of genes. You can line breed generally safe to the 7th degree, within certain limits. Should a meteor come crashing down...yes at some point I would need new genes of everything into my livestock...but so would a guy with 500 cattle....

[bacpacker]

Realist, I use corn stalks to feed the neighbors horses. Growin up we always fed them to the cows. You do have to limit the amount you feed them. They will founder (bloat) if they eat to much of the green stalks. In a bad case they will die from it.
I have put out apples, pears, cherries, peaches, and pawpaws. As well as blueberries, grapes, garlic, & asparagus. I'm getting ready to order more trees for this fall's planting. I plan on getting figs, plums, nectarines, pecans, & almonds.
I'm growing late corn this year to use for chicken feed. It will be ready to harvest about anytime now. I should get enough off of it to get me thru the winter. This is my first year with chickens, so I'm experimenting to see what works and what don't.

Raven I am highly impressed with the variety of stuff you raise. Sounds like a very productive farm to me. I think your grandpa great advise about only taking one new breed per year. We almost started with goats this year. Looking back with all we've had going on since spring I am so glad I didn't. Maybe next year.
I have no expereince raising animals other than cows and now chickens. I didn't realize the amount of meat you could get from goats and rabbits in a year. Plus in a bad SHTF situation freezers probably won't be an option. In that case the smaller meals from goats, rabbits, chickens, & dwarf pigs and cows would be much more managable for meals over a day or 2.

[ravensgrove]

Backpacker: exactly on the freezers. In the event of TEOTWAWKI....it makes more sense to me to have carcasses we can use up in 2-3 days. Processing all the meat on even 1 standard steer, in time not to waste it with a family of 4...would be really difficult minus electricity/freezer. Yes, you could concievably smoke it...but that is also determined by climate. We live in the rainy PNW....while you can smoke fish quite well, even something like an elk...which would be comparative in meat ratio, is very hard to smoke 3/4s of the year. The sheer work involved in cutting strips of meat thin enough to smoke in our humidity...I don't think people have a good grasp of. IE: Scraping two cow hides and salting them...before you even get to the tanning part...took me almost 6 hours a hide by hand.

I feed all my garden waste, including corn stalks to my goats and pigs. Rabbits won't really eat corn waste. I grow an entire garden specifically for the pigs and goats of root vegetables, they store well. Also we're finding they love hubbard squash and hubbards grow like crazy and produce giant 20 lb+ fruit. Specifically for protein and fiber we planted walnuts this year. Ten years from now I hope they are providing a great deal of supplemental feed.

[bobthe]

Backpacker: exactly on the freezers. In the event of TEOTWAWKI....it makes more sense to me to have carcasses we can use up in 2-3 days. Processing all the meat on even 1 standard steer, in time not to waste it with a family of 4...would be really difficult minus electricity/freezer.

why discount the use of a freezer? just looking on the web right quick like, the draw of an energy star 25 cubic foot chest freezer is only 600w max. it wouldnt be obscenely expensive to run that off of solar. And remember you DONT have to use a fancy battery bank system that can provide power throughout the night to the freezer 24/7. just set the freezer to the lowest temp setting with a full load of frozen goods when grid / generator power can be had, then when you go to solar, just let the freezer warm up a bit come night time, and run continuously during the day when you have solar power. so long as you dont let anything thaw there should be no problem, and if you have a freezer full of hundreds of pounds of meat thats at -7f its not going to warm up enough to thaw overnight. if you end up with a bout of cloudy days then fire up the genny long enough for the freezer to get back down to temperature.

as someone with zip all farm experience it sounds to me like maintaining the ability to keep frozen goods would be a LOT easier than rasing the meat! ;)

[bacpacker]

Solar power is very expensive per watt. 600W is not a huge load, but that would take 8 80W panels to power just the freezer. The reason I mention 80W panels, they are the largest panel you can get by fed-ex or UPS. Shipping freight cost quite a lot more which runs the cost up from there.
Now to the efficentcy of the panels. An 80 watt panel will output 80 watts if kept directed at the sun, with no cloud cover. If the panel is fixed as opposed to being on a tracker, you can probably drop that to 50-60 watts. On a partly cloudy day drop that to 20-40 watts depending on coverage. Around here in the winter we have quite a few cloudy days, say 30-50%. I feel certain the PNW would be even worse than that. Even if you mounted the panels on a tracker you would still need 10-12 80watt panels at a minimum just to run the freezer.
If you have a freezer full of meat and have a big storm come thru that gives pretty solid cloud cover for several days ( we had just that when tropical storm lee came up thru here over labor day weekend. It rained and was cloudy for 6 days with temps in the 70-90's thru that time) your freezer will thaw out without some other means to power it.
This info comes from a good friend of mine who has purchased several different solar panels to charge batteries with so he can run his ham radio set up during emergencies. He did a lot of testing under various conditions this spring and summer. He's a retired engineer and is pretty meticulous in his record keeping. I certainly trust his calculations.

[bobthe]

Solar power is very expensive per watt. 600W is not a huge load, but that would take 8 80W panels to power just the freezer. The reason I mention 80W panels, they are the largest panel you can get by fed-ex or UPS. Shipping freight cost quite a lot more which runs the cost up from there.


panels are getting cheaper and cheaper. see the thread i made in the town hall forum about the idea of a good deals thread.

3.6kw worth of brand new solar panels on ebay right now for 1$ a watt.

go in on a buy with 2 (local) buddies and after the cost of an inverter and freight shipping split three ways, for maybe 1500$ you would have a system that would run the freezer on even cloudy days.

also dont forget the 25 cubic foot freezer i used as a hypothetical only draws 1.5 kwh a day. if you have 1200 watts of panels ALL of the conus gets a year round average of greater than 4 watt hours for a fixed installation (most is between 5 and 6), so your AVERAGE energy budget for a day is 4.8 kwh . so on sunny days you get a lot of surplus power to do other stuff (run power tools, AC, a small microwave, etc)

all of this back of the envelope sort of factoring is assuming you want to avoid the cost and complexity of running batteries. add batteries to the mix and you would almost never have to worry about backup power for a freezer with 1200 watts of panels on the roof

[gunbuilder69]

Solar power is very expensive per watt. 600W is not a huge load, but that would take 8 80W panels to power just the freezer. The reason I mention 80W panels, they are the largest panel you can get by fed-ex or UPS. Shipping freight cost quite a lot more which runs the cost up from there.
Now to the efficentcy of the panels. An 80 watt panel will output 80 watts if kept directed at the sun, with no cloud cover. If the panel is fixed as opposed to being on a tracker, you can probably drop that to 50-60 watts. On a partly cloudy day drop that to 20-40 watts depending on coverage. Around here in the winter we have quite a few cloudy days, say 30-50%. I feel certain the PNW would be even worse than that. Even if you mounted the panels on a tracker you would still need 10-12 80watt panels at a minimum just to run the freezer.
If you have a freezer full of meat and have a big storm come thru that gives pretty solid cloud cover for several days ( we had just that when tropical storm lee came up thru here over labor day weekend. It rained and was cloudy for 6 days with temps in the 70-90's thru that time) your freezer will thaw out without some other means to power it.
This info comes from a good friend of mine who has purchased several different solar panels to charge batteries with so he can run his ham radio set up during emergencies. He did a lot of testing under various conditions this spring and summer. He's a retired engineer and is pretty meticulous in his record keeping. I certainly trust his calculations.
^^^^^That is an accurate statement.^^^^^

All the devils advocacy won't change simple fact. Solar is good in it's structured limitations,but not the answer
Remember this rule of thumb... if you covered the island of manhattan in 80w pv panels,you'd have just enough energy to run one 20 story building.

[ravensgrove]

25 cubic ft freezer won't hold even 1 cow. I have 2 18 cubic ft standing freezers holding ONE cow. And 2 standard chest freezers holding the other one. Again, I am not sure you understand the real volume of meat here.

Second...I live in the PNW and solar still only functions minimally here. Also meat thaws much quicker than you might think. Just this year we had 1 freezer go out, over night..we lost EVERYTHING in the door compartments in 70 degree weather. Thats not even hot for here, or anywhere really.

Third...if we're going to play hypothetical....what if the TEOTWAWKI event is Mt. Rainier blowing up which is very near me...and the last time MT St Helens did we had almost 10 straight days of minimal light. Or what about any other number of thigns which might take out solar? EMP...et all.

So...if we are talking TEOTWAWKI I'd be looking for ways to survive minus power all together.

[ravensgrove]

I'll add this very thing...is why I choose to raise small livestock. In the event of TEOTWAWKI or even a supply chain breakdown:
A) You're looking at feeding large stock through the winter...with no grains...which unless you have 100s of acres...good luck with that. I have 7 acres, I can't support large livestock here.
B) As I pointed out, I don't think you understand the real volume we are talking about in meat in one large steer here...800 lbs of beef....EACH. You try shoving that in a 25 cubic ft freezer...it ain't happening my man. Hell I can barely fit 1 300 lb hog in a standing 18 cubic ft freezer.

In the end, this is why I chose small livestock breeds. Carcass usability and land requirements for maintenance minus grain....in the event no grain is around.

[bobthe]

25 cubic ft freezer won't hold even 1 cow. I have 2 18 cubic ft standing freezers holding ONE cow. And 2 standard chest freezers holding the other one. Again, I am not sure you understand the real volume of meat here.


25 cubic feet should hold 1000 lbs of beef assuming a 66% backing density (ie 1/3rd of the cooler is open space).
I assume you arent packing your freezer for maximum packing density, but rather ease of access.

In any event, the point is moot, because you surely must agree that a 25 cubit foot freezer would hold a heck of a lot of meat that otherwise would ahve to be consumed / preserved in a ridiculously short period of time.



Second...I live in the PNW and solar still only functions minimally here.

you happen to be in the worst place in CONUS for solar. 90% of the nation would get at least twice the power out of the same panel you would. I admit I should have been more clear, but at the time I was speaking more generally, and only replied to your post because you were the second person to rule out refrigeration. backpacker would get twice as much KWHs per day as you and he was saying no refrigeration as well.


Also meat thaws much quicker than you might think. .
No it doesnt. animal is 70% water dont forget. how long will it take a 500 lbs block of ice to melt in a freezer? no way in heck it's happening over night. The instance you mentioned must have involved a very poorly designed freezer.



Third...if we're going to play hypothetical....what if the TEOTWAWKI event is Mt. Rainier blowing up which is very near me...and the last time MT St Helens did we had almost 10 straight days of minimal light. Or what about any other number of thigns which might take out solar? EMP...et all.

So...if we are talking TEOTWAWKI I'd be looking for ways to survive minus power all together.


10 days of minimal light - thats why I said you would need a backup source of power. a generator and some fuel.

But EMPs and such? you might as well argue that TEOTWAWKI might be a 100% lethal virus with a 100% infection rate, so why bother to prep at all. The ability to have power and the ability to refrigerate large game would come in very handy in a lot situations post SHTF. and many of those situations dont involve sunlight obscuring dust or EMP

Maybe it's just a regional thing, but down here in hurricane land, after you have a few cases of bottled water, a small stash of food, the very next thing on the list is a generator and fuel. Heck I keep 125 gallons on hand and think I'm under supplied.

as far as supporting the large stock on your land. that was something I was going to follow up on, regarding the lines of my previous question asking how sustainable livestock was fromt he standpoint of genetic diversity.

[ravensgrove]

I don't care what your math says....I have 2 cows shoved in 4 freezers right now...they are so full you can barely get anything out. LOL. Seriously. Who said I didn't have a generator? You're talking about keeping a freezer going for months on end to use up all that meat...in a true TEOTWAWKI scenario....where am I getting gas to run this generator? Your 125 gallons ain't gonna keep that freezer ( plus 3 more) going for the 5 months it would take to use that meat. As for arguing the greatness of the dead freezer...had nothing to do with the freezer itself, breaker went out in the shop. And let's be clear, I am not ruling out refrigeration, I said refrigeration is not fail safe...and with the effort and money it costs to raise large animals...I wouldn't put my bets on large carcasses staying refrigerated long enough to use them up.

I already talked about genetic diversity. Line breeding is perfectly doable to the seventh degree providing you don't breed full siblings to full siblings. As none of my seedstock are genetically related to one another, the gene pool is actually quite large. But as I said previously in a true TEOTWAWKI scenario....even if you had 500 head of any animal....eventually you'd need new genetics. Let's take the goats as an example here. My does range in age from 1 to 3 years old. They will produce up to about 10 years old. There are six seperate bloodlines in the does. This means that concievably I could breed them until 10 years, and at their 8th year keep a doe from a litter to replace that doe. I think they do best if not bred before 18 months old, and have a 5 month gestation. In this way I'd have does kidding as others retired. These new does would be the second generation of line breeding. Same holds true for a buck. That means by round about 70 years in...I could possibly have some genetic problems. That 70 years is much more than I could ever store in #10 cans of food. Is my point. Its not that I don't store food, water et all. I do. I just also have livestock.

Line breeding is how all purebred animals have been developed. Its very common place in all livestock breeding and I have done it my entire life in everything from show dogs to meat rabbits.

Would you like me to photobucket some breeding charts from my rabbits so I can show you how it works? Its easier to understand in a picture, than in trying to type it out.

You seem argumentative. I have nothing against solar, I just don't think in my particular location solar makes much sense except for as a redundancy. Its certainly not going to be my primary source of reliability for anything. If I lived in Arizona, that'd be different. But if I lived in a desert climate I'd choose different livestock as well.

And that is probably the key factor here....location is everything. What will work for me in my scenario HERE....won't necessarily work for you THERE....and vice versa. I don't talk in general terms. I say..."this is what I am doing here". Learn from it, don't...I don't give a crap either way, I'm just sharing information. The original title was How Much of Your Own Food Do You Produce. I answered that....and for whatever reason you don't like my answer. Ok then, don't raise livestock then. But if you don't raise livestock....you better really be packing away the #10 cans and MREs.

[bobthe]

You seem argumentative.

*snip* ....and for whatever reason you don't like my answer.

i dont mean to be. i agree solar isnt the best way to go for you specifically. my point was only to get others to consider it as just about the entire rest of the nation would see the option as much more viable than you would. i wasnt arguing WITH you. your post was just the first 'forget refrigeration' post i clicked reply to. obviously storing your food goes hand in hand with what you can produce, so i figured the subject on topic for the thread.

[The Stig]

I don't care what your math says....I have 2 cows shoved in 4 freezers right now...they are so full you can barely get anything out.

Real world versus theoretical calculations of "what should be"?

Love it.

Thank you for sharing your real world information.

While an interesting topic, and this is not directed towards you in any way, I'm struggling to grasp what the hell any of this discussion about solar power has to do with how much of your own food you grow.

[bobthe]

While an interesting topic, and this is not directed towards you in any way, I'm struggling to grasp what the hell any of this discussion about solar power has to do with how much of your own food you grow.

unless someone has the ability to eat a whole cow in one sitting, then not eat again for a year, your ability to STORE food both now and post SHTF has a rather lot to do with how much of your own food you can raise / grow I would think...

[The Stig]

unless someone has the ability to eat a whole cow in one sitting, then not eat again for a year, your ability to STORE food both now and post SHTF has a rather lot to do with how much of your own food you can raise / grow I would think...

The amount of calories one can comsume does to, should we start discussing work out plans in this thread too?

If you want to discuss how much food you can fit in a freezer or the benefits of solar....start a thread to discuss them. Both would be interesting topics. But trying to crowbar then into this discussion isn't working. The topic is how much of your own food do you grow.