Food Preservation

[bacpacker]

From the other thread about food production it seems we need a thread for food preservation. So here we go.

We use multiple techniques to store the food we raise or purchase. We have canned kraut, pickles, tomatos, peach butter, pear butter, grape jelly, spiced honey, & bread in a jar (a treat my wife makes to give away for occasion). We have dehydrated, potato's cantaloupe, pineapple, apples, peaches, pears, onions, tomatos, & jerky. The freezer got green beans, corn, okra, tomatos, peaches, & various meats. When we start to slaughter the chickens, they will go there also. Along with the beef we are buying.

A little bit of the thought we put into our ways of preservation: In a MAJOR SHTF situation, say a CME from the sun or a financial collaspe, you can pretty safely assume the fuel supplies are going to go away quickly. Due to this, my immediate plan calls for firing up our outdoor stoves and grills and start canning and dehydrating everything in the freezers possible. I have stored what I believe to be enough LP gas to run the stoves for several days non stop. I also have some gasoline put back to run the generator long enough to keep the freezers/fridge cold until the food is processed. I don't want to use it all up on the genny however due to needing it to run the tiller as far into the future as possible. I choose several yeas ago not to invest into solar due to the cost and lack of effciency. I just couldn't afford enough panels and batteries to power what I needed. While it is pretty sunny here a lot of the time it is partly cloudy, call it 30-70% at times thru out the year. Winter and spring can be very cloudy at times, certainly nowhere near as bad as the PNW, but bad enough to limit available sunlight. Summer is very hazy for weeks on end, this to will reduce the output to some degree. I just felt it wasn't something I wanted to invest in at that time.

My plan is to go more in the direction of running our place like my grandparents families did in the late 1800's-early 1900's. Electricity will not be much of a priority for us.

[bobthe]

to further the solar issue, check out an insolation map:

a good one is: http://www.nrel.gov/gis/images/map_pv_national_hi-res.jpg
but this is a > MEGABYTE jpeg! slow connections and slower computers watch out!
here is a more civil version at 100 kb: http://www.nrel.gov/gis/images/map_pv_national_lo-res.jpg

Basically what an insolation map does is give you a multiplier. If you put a 1000 watt solar panel on your roof, and you live in an area thats at the 5 kw/m^2/day level, it means your panel will generate ON AVERAGE - throughout the year - 5000 watt hours a day. These maps take into account local weather and sunshine, but keep in mind they are averages. averages are not always a perfect fit. also keep in mind that there is a pretty significant seasonal variation in solar panel output. you might be getting 8000 watt hours during the summer and 2000 watt hours during the winter to get that 5000 year round average figure.

[bacpacker]

That was my issue. If I went with solar I felt I needed a semi constant out, with battiers included. To run the load I would want to run I just feel the cost was 2 much vs the benifit. At least then, as prices continue to decline I may reconsider. Even so with that investment, if we did take a CME hit the inverter/controller would be toast. So it still puts me back to where I currently am at.
To my way of thinkin its not the most effective way for me to go right now

[bobthe]

Even so with that investment, if we did take a CME hit the inverter/controller would be toast.

thats one of the lowest cost components in the system. you could always buy a spare. but from my readings regarding emp susceptibility, for some reason household fridges and freezers are high on the list :mad:

[bacpacker]

The EMP part is what worries me most. If you don't have good protection, you really don't know what all will be affected. So many things have electronics of some type in them, what is at risk and what isn't? There is no way to protect everything so it comes down to what you have the best shot at protecting well and just hope for the best otherwise.

[JustAPrepper]

This is something that has crossed my mind several times. Can't say that we actually have a plan in place other than using the grill to can as much as possible. However, I haven't tested our grill to see if it can put out enough heat to hold the amount of pressure necessary in the canner. I'd like to test it now that the weather is beginning to cool a bit. I'm also thinking we need to replace the guts on our grill before I attempt it. Seems as though we replace them every couple of years and it's been a while if I remember correctly.

BP...have you ever canned on a grill? What size canner do you have? Any idea how much LP you might have used?

[bacpacker]

I've never used the grill for canning. Ours has a thermometer and it will hit 600+ with all three burners on high, so I feel it would work. It also has a smaller burner on the side. I would use it to keep the jars or lids and rings hot. We have 2 pressure cookers and 2 regular canners. I think it will handle the canners for sure, pressure cooker ???
I also picked up a 2 burner LP stove this spring. I have no doubt it'll run anything we need to. I got it from Gander Mtn for $89 on sale. Usually $129 so I was really happy with the purchase. I also got a carry bag for it. In a BO situation just grab the bag and LP bottle and your good to go. The stove legs extend and fold out. Overall a decent set up I think.
I do need to run them for a long period and measure fuel consumption.

[dragon5126]

The EMP part is what worries me most. If you don't have good protection, you really don't know what all will be affected. So many things have electronics of some type in them, what is at risk and what isn't? There is no way to protect everything so it comes down to what you have the best shot at protecting well and just hope for the best otherwise.
The other thing that isn't taken into consideration is the fact that the entire panel is just a series of semiconductor junctions, and in an EMP those junctions are suseptable to damage as well, ant the better the panel the more suseptable it is. While they are not as bad as other types of solid state devices they are damageable, which is why they are such a weak link on our AMSAT birds. BUT all that aside, thats still no reason to forgo having about 100 watts or so worth of panels on the homestead to keep deep cycle batteries charged for lighting when needed as well as smaller fractional horse motors for various needs like emergency ventilation. It doesnt need to be something you depend on, but a viable resource for the if/when type situations. For example, four decent deep cycle batteries kept on a float charge, can be used to keep flashlight batteries, weapon light batteries, cordless power tools and similar charged. while the power tools can be replaced with hand powered, there are times when speed is necessary, and after the initial outlay it is free energy. And even if the controller does go bad, with careful monitoring with a basic non solidstate volt meter you still can use functioning panels to charge batteries...

[JustAPrepper]

I just spoke to DH. The grill guts definitely need to be replaced. I was considering doing a test run tomorrow and just canning some water to see if the grill would get hot enough to heat the canner and hold the pressure. I've got a Mirro 22 Quart that will hold 16 Pints, stacked, and a traditional Water Bath that I use to heat my jars and lids. The grill is large but I've never even tested to see if they will both fit on the grates. He says that one of our LP tanks has a guage on it so when I do a test run I'll be able to measure how much fuel is used. I see a test run in my future.:cool:

[dragon5126]

I've never used the grill for canning. Ours has a thermometer and it will hit 600+ with all three burners on high, so I feel it would work. It also has a smaller burner on the side. I would use it to keep the jars or lids and rings hot. We have 2 pressure cookers and 2 regular canners. I think it will handle the canners for sure, pressure cooker ???
I also picked up a 2 burner LP stove this spring. I have no doubt it'll run anything we need to. I got it from Gander Mtn for $89 on sale. Usually $129 so I was really happy with the purchase. I also got a carry bag for it. In a BO situation just grab the bag and LP bottle and your good to go. The stove legs extend and fold out. Overall a decent set up I think.
I do need to run them for a long period and measure fuel consumption.

Curious, wouldnt you prefer using some other form of fuel in say a barrel type bbq grill instead of the LP? Since you would be essentally dealing with closed containers you could can with garbage type fuels, like logs made out of news print, garbage wood from construction even used drain oil with old rags as a wick and save the better ones for cooking fresh non canned foods on... just a matter of resource preservation. Thats why we never got rid of our big weber when the gas grill moved in. Heck we found a source of hickory lump charcoal (not pressed briquettes) and even stopped using the gas grill, and shifted the bottles to the camper,,,

[bacpacker]

Justa I have to check out the 22 qt canner. Ours are just the old style water bath models for 6 qts or 6 pts.

Dragon I totally agree about the smaller outlay for solar charging. I plan on something similar to run my ham station from, and to provide lighting in the chicken coop enough to see by at night. Small specific projects like that is what I'm thinking of. But they aren't a top priority for me right now. It will come however.

[dragon5126]

Justa I have to check out the 22 qt canner. Ours are just the old style water bath models for 6 qts or 6 pts.

Dragon I totally agree about the smaller outlay for solar charging. I plan on something similar to run my ham station from, and to provide lighting in the chicken coop enough to see by at night. Small specific projects like that is what I'm thinking of. But they aren't a top priority for me right now. It will come however.
I'm with you on job specific solar power. Thats what I currently have set up. If I had the money to redo the house (the way it's situated, it would be a major project due to the height and direction of the roof), I'd install a major solar set up, but it wouldnt be a "prepping" type thing, it would be done around energy efficency, to pump water to be heated by solar as well as knocj down some rather high electric bills, due to mandated energy buy back laws... but as I mentioned in another thread I'd have to buy an awful lot of panels to do it since the roof is situated with the ridge of the peak running north and south so I would have to panel both sides of an extremely steep roof.

[The Stig]

I'm with you on job specific solar power. Thats what I currently have set up. If I had the money to redo the house (the way it's situated, it would be a major project due to the height and direction of the roof), I'd install a major solar set up, but it wouldnt be a "prepping" type thing, it would be done around energy efficency, to pump water to be heated by solar as well as knocj down some rather high electric bills, due to mandated energy buy back laws... but as I mentioned in another thread I'd have to buy an awful lot of panels to do it since the roof is situated with the ridge of the peak running north and south so I would have to panel both sides of an extremely steep roof.



Be my luck that I'd put panels all over my roof and get clobbered by a hurricane the next week.

[bacpacker]

+1000
Or a Hail Storm! I would have hated having to clean up a bank of solar panels after that.

[dragon5126]

+1000
Or a Hail Storm! I would have hated having to clean up a bank of solar panels after that.
one word: Lexan! doesnt have to be thick just enough to finish bankrupting me!

[izzyscout21]

+1000
Or a Hail Storm! I would have hated having to clean up a bank of solar panels after that.

I still haven't got my roof repaired after that. Maybe, if I had had them covering the entire roof, the solar panels could have served as really expensive "armor" for my roof. LOL

[bobthe]

+1000
Or a Hail Storm! I would have hated having to clean up a bank of solar panels after that.

hail probably isnt as bad as a hurricane.
most discrete cell panels can take a direct hit from 1" hail.
thin film panels (the ones that look like one big cell) can take a hit from substantially larger. The glass may crack and they will look unsightly but they will still work at spec power.

[bacpacker]

That's good info. We had a big storm back in april. Destroied the garden, blue berries, beat the house to crap, & totaled 2 cars. The hail was larger than a silver dollar and looked like it snowed 2-3" deep. Hope we don't see no more that bad for a while.

[izzyscout21]

That's good info. We had a big storm back in april. Destroied the garden, blue berries, beat the house to crap, & totaled 2 cars. The hail was larger than a silver dollar and looked like it snowed 2-3" deep. Hope we don't see no more that bad for a while.

Let's not forget about the "baseball" that made it into my livingroom via the roof. That storm sucked.