Scavenging for supplies

[izzyscout21]

Let's face it. Preps WILL run out eventually and you cant possible put enough supplies back for every contingency. That, said,I thought that it would be fun to start at thread about identiying those overlooked or under-considered places for scavenging food and supplies in the post STHF/PAW environment.

The obvious places (like supermarkets, pharmacies, hospitals, and corner stores) will be picked over fairly well.

List some places that you can think of that are not so obvious for essential supplies. Also list what could be found to ensure your survival.

Construction sites (fuel/ tools), veterinary clinics (meds/ medical supples), and now city and private pools (water treatment)...... thanks, Evolver.... are some that come to my mind.

How about you?

[Dropy]

Lot of places come to mind, but so does the issue of legalities in some circles. WOuld not want to see this post viewed as preparing to do something illegal.

No offense. This has been on my mind for some time now also.

[Sniper-T]

A couple of easy ones come to mind.

Assuming that the SHTF scenario is an EMP type of event... Then a GREAT place to scavenge will be the highways, and rail-lines

Once the sheeple madness has died down a bit, The roads will be littered with vehicles with piles of stuff in them that people couldn't carry when they were forced to abandon their rides. Granted, others will pick some over, but most of them will be carrying their own stuff. Given accidents and general mayhem, it wouldn't even need to be an EMP, as people drive stupid to begin with, and in an emergency, there will be blocked roads all over.

These will also be a great source for fuels (diesel, gas, oil)

There will also be tractor trailers and trains stopped all over the place.

I have an old tractor that will run no matter what. I could fill the bucket with jerry cans, grab a siphon hose, and have access to tons of fuels. Throw in a set of bolt cutters, and now I could access the cargo on the trucks/trains.

Throw in a couple good chunks of chain, and if I happened across a fuel truck, or a grocery truck... I could drag the whole thing home.

Beyond that, there will be of course your neighbours. The ones that either didn't make it home, or bugged out to another location. I have one sheeple couple living near me, who pride themselves on "living one day at a time" they shop daily on their way home, and buy enough food for the night. Assuming of course that they didn't just have dinner out(again). I've sat in his kitchen, having a beer with him, and he opened a few cupboards looking for snacks, and every food cupboard was almost void of food. the fridge held nothing but condiments. The freezer had ice. I asked him what they'd do in case of a blizzard or something. "Jump in the truck and head to her mom's place in the city, or just stay in the city".

So what did they have? Lots of books, several musical instruments, tools, clothes... stuff! and in a SHTF scenario... 'stuff' can end up having multiple uses.

[GunnerMax]

Grocery store distrobution warehouses, for me (due to close proximity to seaports) shipping containers, small businesses (tools, raw supplies), etc

[mitunnelrat]

Lot of places come to mind, but so does the issue of legalities in some circles. WOuld not want to see this post viewed as preparing to do something illegal.

No offense. This has been on my mind for some time now also.

Maybe I can do something to alleviate a bit of that concern. There are times that scavenging is a legal and sanctioned activity. I scavenged in and helped pull a metric shit ton of equipment and supplies out of a condemned apartment complex in Joplin. The group I was with had salvage rights to the property. The key to this is knowing who to talk to about getting an official letterhead to show LE and NG patrols. I didn't bother grabbing any of the food due to the the length of time it had sat there exposed to the heat and adverse weather, but medical and sanitary supplies, cleaning equipment and supplies, undamaged appliances, tools, safety equipment.... Outdoor gear... all of it was fair game.

I didn't see a single gun or box of ammunition, which I found a little surprising given the amount of sporting goods equipment in some homes, but... it had been months and I can only assume the homeowners managed to come in for some things, or other crews/ looters had already found and removed such items. I know there was a crew prior to my own that went in to remove hazmat items in preparation for the coming demolition of the site. hazmat included tv's btw. So don't make the assumption a place has already been looted just from the absence of one.

The other thing I can say is, it reaps major benefits to scour your surroundings for more than danger. Many good items were found laying outside amid the rubble, half hidden under the scrap.

[mitunnelrat]

Grocery store distrobution warehouses, for me (due to close proximity to seaports) shipping containers, small businesses (tools, raw supplies), etc

re: the food warehouses. These are going to be just like the supermarkets, imo. They're too well known to be of any benefit, with the risks far too great. There are arguments all across the 'net on this subject, and the overwhelming consensus is to avoid them. Just advancing some food for thought there.

[Evolver]

Hunkering down and not going any where is going to be a best for our situation. We are trying to get as much as we can know while we can and not being dependent on any batteries or fuels. We stock them but when there gone there gone so if we have the back to the basic skills is where we will prevail.

[Gunfixr]

I don't know. Here in the urban jungle, I don't think there will be much food to be had. That will be fought over until the winners run out and die of starvation, the losers having been killed by the winners.

There will probably be stuff.

I guess what I need is about 6-9 months worth of food minimum, and seeds to start a garden. Once the last few are struggling to move around, I can grow a garden, as I will no longer have to stay up 24/7 to keep an eye on it.

The view here is pretty dim, I've noticed.

[izzyscout21]

can you guys think of anywhere that might have food and supplies that might possibly be overlooked?

[Gunfixr]

I don't know, hunger is a great motivator. Really hungry people will be rather thorough, and inventive in their desperation. Kinda like when you are looking for something you know you have, but cannot find. You invariably look some places that in your mind you know you won't find it, but in your desperation you still hope, and look anyway.
I think it largely depends on what kind of SHTF event happens. You almost would need some type of disease to wipe everybody out before they could starve, or some kind of quick-happening event to either drive everyone off hurriedly or kill them off so fast that they can't eat everything.

I just reread that last statement, kinda morbid, but I cannot think of any other way to put it.

[ladyhk13]

Well don't forget about your hotels especially the nicer ones...they always have a stockade of food. The fresh items may not last long but they will have a pretty good stash of canned items. That would be good for people in cities
What about a cruise ship? People near coastlines/marinas might be able to use them.

[Dropy]

Ok i will play. May i suggest Grain elevators, as well as rail cars with grain cars attached. Also ports of call on east and west coast where these cars are heading. Railroads in general can be a vast source of goods and fuel for diesels.

[GunnerMax]

Railroad cars carry fuel, raw supplies COAL chemicals, fertilizer. Man, the RR is a good idea.

[Dropy]

Yep and seeing as how i know a bit dealing with them, due to a previous job, i got a bit of insight on em. Railroads can also be a good path to travel so ya dont have to hit the highways if your careful.

[Dropy]

LOTS of businesses have break rooms/customer waiting areas. and i would say 98% have some sort of snack/pop machine in them. May not be a super healthy food source, but it is calories.

[bacpacker]

Another place that comes to mind, sporting goods and backpacking stores. Most all of them carry freeze dried foods, stoves, fuel, tents, sleeping bags, etc. Sporting stores will probably get hit hard, backpacking stores a lot less IMO.

[Dropy]

Zoo's. they have vet supplies, sometimes fish tanks, bird atrium things, and animals!!! yummy...animals.

Theme/amusement parks. great place to hit for food stuffs, equipment of various kinds, vehicles. Also circuses.

Aquariums like sea world.

Museums. Just imagine hitting the big weapons museum in washington... I think i just touched myself innapropriately.

PM exchanges.

Fire houses.

will think of and post more l8r. head hurts now....

[Dropy]

Factories where products are made, like canning factories for fruit/veggies. Automotive factories for vhicles and parts and tools...even some fuel. Airports, and airplanes there may still have luggage and vehicles and fuel to use. Also most have concessions/resturants in them. Portapotty rental places have TP, and even the porta potty itself is useful as is a vac truck to clean it out and haul away the waste might make ur septic last longer.

[Evolver]

Back yard, road side, near woods, waterways and shore line. "Wild eatable foods"

[izzyscout21]

now we're truckin. Great posts, everyone

[Dropy]

Farms, fish farms, places that sell plants cuz many sell fruit and nut trees also.

Campgrounds could surprise you for what can be found there.

Dairy Queen cuz i like ice cream and will need a soft serve machine in the BOL.

Dentists office, eye doctor places, massage parlors (hope for happy ending),

Anyplace selling motorcycles, atv's/4 wheelers, boats and campers are great for fuel, parts and maybe vehicles. Camper spots also tend to sell outdoor gear like composting toilettes and stuff.

Bookstores.

[The Stig]

A lot of good ones covered.

Truckstops: if any trucks have been abandoned there might be useful items in the trailers. Fuel in the tanks, etc.

[bacpacker]

Along those lines, rest stops on the interstate. Lots of trucks may be there, espically the ones that get a lot of heavy use.

[Dropy]

My company has 2 tanks outside for refueling shop and yard equipment. 1 is gas and 1 diesel. They are like 500 or 1000 gallon tanks. not sure to be exact.

Welding companies/shops for tools, welder/generators, gases, materials to fortify/build.

Trucking places where goods are delivered then transferred to other trucks....forget what ya call these. We got a small one in our town.

Laundry mat places for chemicals, clothes, blankets sheets etc.

Dont forget to pick up some fire extinguishers. We got a Safety store here with lots of PPE gear and such due to the oilfield here.

Also oil drilling rigs have LOTS of stuff useful by em.

[LUNCHBOX]

I would not feel right about taking items from here due to who they were used for but daycares and schools but in a way it would still be for kids. Both have dry goods on hand and a select amount of meats (probably bad by the time you get to them) If you have one near you? Airports have a large supply of foodstuffs on hand for flights and individuals.

[Stormfeather]

Theres several options that Ive seen recommended here that I fully agree with. Heres my top 3

1) railways, there's always going to be railways with stopped trains on them. From talking with friends that work on the railways, they will usually cut bait and leave the boxcars in place in case of disaster.
2) Farm & Fleet. . . There's always tons of good supplies there, and since there usually isnt a lot of food carried in them, they will more than likely be overlooked in the initial looting spree.
3) Campgrounds. Propane, trailers, firewood, hunting/camping supplies, need I say more?

[Grumpy Old Man]

Well, I see that everyone has put on their thinking caps and come up with the expected good ideas. I'll throw out a couple that I've considered. Ready-mix concrete plants for fuel and chemicals, asphalt hot-mix plants for fuel, chemicals and propane,equipment yards for lubricants, fuel and tools and feed stores for just about everything.

[JustAPrepper]

School cafeterias and major employers with cafeterias come to mind. Also, I don't know if they still do it, but back in the day schools and major employers had nurses stations and sick bays with basic medical supplies.

[Gunfixr]

Back in our day maybe, but now the school nurse takes their temps, has them lay down a bit, and if that doesn't fix it, parents get a call to come get them.

Around here there's lots of rail, but pretty much all coal. Not useless, but inedible.

I don't know about everywhere, but over the past year or so, all the stores have backed way off on the amount of food on the shelves. Lots of spaces empty regularly, and never filled anywhere near capacity any more. More supplies come every day. The shelves are cleaned hard every month at the beginning of the month, and somewhat hard on any payday weekend.
Those trucks stop coming, it'd only be a few days for the shelves to be picked clean. After that, it'd be every man for themselves, and it wouldn't be long before groups would take to the streets, taking whatever they are strong enough to take.
Probably the one good thing about the city is that while most are armed, it's mostly handguns, and for many, their idea of marksmanship is to stick the gun out at arms length sideways and blast away. Plus, city folks don't tend to stock up on ammo too much. Around here, 100rds is considered enough to start a war. It would be brutal, but fairly short-lived.
Of course, most around here don't even see a lot of what is actually a food source, so once the shelves are cleaned, and they've raided whatever businesses they can think of and houses they can, most will just it down and die, probably next to something edible.
Which will then be left behind, for folks like us.

[bacpacker]

Not so much for food, but some good spots for tools and supplies. Construction sites both commercial and residential, auto dealerships, farm equipment dealerships, & sawmills.

[ladyhk13]

Farms, fish farms, places that sell plants cuz many sell fruit and nut trees also.

Campgrounds could surprise you for what can be found there.

Dairy Queen cuz i like ice cream and will need a soft serve machine in the BOL.

Dentists office, eye doctor places, massage parlors (hope for happy ending),

Anyplace selling motorcycles, atv's/4 wheelers, boats and campers are great for fuel, parts and maybe vehicles. Camper spots also tend to sell outdoor gear like composting toilettes and stuff.

Bookstores.

As a retired Licensed Massage Therapist I am offended by that little note there buddy!!!

[ladyhk13]

How about schools and YMCA's?

[Sniper-T]

As a former lifeguard, I would think that any decent pool would still have a goodly supply of first-aid supplies, plus the pool chemicals of course

[izzyscout21]

How about schools and YMCA's?

http://gifninja.com/animatedgifs/10906/ymca.gif

[bacpacker]

Please don't go there Izzy, please!

[Daca102090]

Another thing to look at is in places like Wal-mart and Costco or other warehouse club stores, after things have been stripped to the bare shelves, what about the electric fork lifts? The deep cycle batteries would be an increadible addition to a BOL or other location. Also some places have propane powered fork lifts and might still have some in the removable tanks.

[Daca102090]

Some other items bound to be left behind in warehouse areas as well as disabled or abandoned vehicles would be the hydraulic and automatic transmission fluid. Drain these from the systems and you can filter then blend it with diesel to stretch fuel supplies. This will run generators or vehicles.

Then there is the internals of any and all vehicle batteries. Even if you don't need extra storage capacity for your system, you can drain the acid and store this for later use. In the right situation you can concentrate the sulphuric acid and use for processing or manufacturing a large number of items including nitro-cellulose or gun cotton if you have some of the other ingredients that are necessary. Then the plates can be melted down and recast for other purposes.

The biggest challenge will be to look beyond what the opportunists will look for and find the true jewels that have been overlooked through haste or ignorance.

[Evolver]

Another thing to look at is in places like Wal-mart and Costco or other warehouse club stores, after things have been stripped to the bare shelves, what about the electric fork lifts? The deep cycle batteries would be an increadible addition to a BOL or other location. Also some places have propane powered fork lifts and might still have some in the removable tanks.

Good one!

[Taz Baby]

The land no matter where you are is always going to have what ever you need. I was raised to live off of the land, so I have a jump start on some people. That being said, learn about what plants are edible and or medical. Then learn how to make tools and shelter
clothes and such from what nature has to offer. That way you can and will survive.

[realist]

Okay I will throw in. In our area we have orchards that would be there for the pickings, sorry couldn't resist. Another thing that we have in our area are wineries everywhere. Some of these wineries have thousands of square feet of wine caves that could be used for shelters. Most wineries have generators for auxiliary power. They also have large quantities of fuel for equipment. They generally have great machine shops and equipment maintenance shops for spare parts and tools. You would also find first aid supplies along with food for employees.. Many of these also have distillation equipment and also sterilization equipment. Oh ya I would imagine there might be a bottle of wine or two strictly for medicinal purposes......

[izzyscout21]

I had never thought about that. There's a few wineries not far from here. I'd imagine these would be a little more overlooked and the liquor stores would be empty.

[realist]

If nothing else there are times when there is thousands of unused bottles that could be used.

Another area would be quarries. These operations generally have a large supply of equipment and along with that fuel stocks.

[Sniper-T]

Wineries age most of their wine in large oak kegs. full, you'd need equipment to move them, Empty, they'd be great water containers. Used... would make some truly stellar swish.

[realist]

Right you are it would be stellar.... The wineries in our area are now so big that they will specialize in reds or whites. (Does that make them racists?) Anyways the white only use large stainless steel containers that would be great for storage. The reds in oak barrels would pretty much take care of themselves. Wine is a food and it also has medicinal properties, you don't usually see any sick winos with the exception for drinking too much. For those that don't drink wine, just think of all that great vinegar..........

[Alas Babylon]

One area not mentioned is landfills. I have two marked on my maps that would be within a days travel by foot or bike. Assuming a long term situation, landfills would be great for non-edible supplies; building materials, containers, clothing. As a nation we throw away loads of perfectly funtional stuff.
As far as an unmentioned food source, waste water plant sludge spreading fields. Sounds gross, but you would be surprised how many seeds pass through us and the plant and then grow in the sludge field. tomatoes are probably most prevalent. Not my first choice for seed sources, but better than nothing (if you dont have enough seeds already saved)

[realist]

One thing that we have found about landfills is that they generate a lot of methane that ours have taped into. They all have small electrical generation plants on site so this might be something that could be used. Recycling is big in our area and this is a large part of the landfill. So chemicals and other ickies are sorted out. Also metals of all types and building materials are also sorted out.

[Katrina]

I know this might not be too kosher but no one has mentioned the walk in clinics or "ready cares" that dot cities. While I' m sure most would be hit for drugs, there would probably be some medical supplies left if they had not been trashed in the initial looting spree. You might look for the smaller fuel depos. I have a small truck fueling station about four blocks away. it's tucked next to a rail line that runs thru the area part of a walking trail in the township. I believe only the truckers that use it and some in neighborhood that is around it knows it's there. We also have small manufacturing plants around us ,so that would be a source of equipment as well.

[mollypup]

I haven't read all through all the posts yet, but did anyone mention about going to local recreational parks and looting the bathrooms of toilet paper and soap???

[izzyscout21]

good idea, Molly. You can NEVER have too much butt wipe. That stuff is good as gold...........

[ak474u]

Also don't forget that car dealerships have LARGE fuel tanks underground, usually near the back of service depts. and also have a parts dept. that would have lots of lubricants, tools, batteries for your sudden need to go solar, wiring stuff, fuses, tires, parts that may work on your car if it's a dealer that specializes in your make, etc. for a long term TEOTWAWKI issue, for what they pay at lots of dealerships, and what they paid me when I worked at one, not likely to be heavily guarded in a SHTF Funny thing is, the parts dept, likely has everything in stock that you'd need to build a fuel pump to get the fuel out of their tanks. Hose, 12v pump(s), batteries, tools in service dept. etc.

[bacpacker]

AK that is an awesome thought. Your right about all the parts and I had totally forgot about fuel tanks.

[Taz Baby]

I,m sure have thought about the gas staions and convience stores. But I am talking about their condiments, like for when you get a hot dog from cirkle K. The packs of mayo, mustard, onion, ketsup, relish, napkins. The stuff under the counter for the snack area. That's where they keep napkins, coffee, creamers, things like that

[Sniper-T]

I have jars full of condiments. I don't eat fast food, but do frequent the quickee mart. every time I do, I grab a handful of something. add it to the jar. when the ketchup jar gets full, I squeeze it all out onto my dehydrator trays, and dry it, and then grind it,into a powder... add a little water, and instant ketchup. same with mustard, hotsauces, etc.

salt and pepper get vacu sealed into bags.

I'm not sure, other than freezing, what I can do with coffee creamers (flavoured and not)

napkins, etc just get "stuffed into ziplocks" for camping/hunting trips


Another though, That I do not recal if mentioned, is construction sites. roads/bridges/etc. ALL kinds of supplies

[carly]

Businesses and factories were mentioned for their break rooms and canteens. Don't forget about the businesses that stock these. We have four such companies nearby. They stock items on a contract basis which prohibits food and beverages from outside companies. Two companies use vending machines only. They have on hand sodas, water, juices, teas, milk, coffee, candy,and prepackaged microwave foods. They deliver daily, sometimes twice daily to restock. Two of the companies make fresh sandwiches, salads, and the like to sell along with the vended items. All of these companies also provide the paper products and condiments used in the break rooms. There are all kinds of goodies on their trucks and in their facilities

[2die4]

How about distribution centers that supply the mega chains like Wal-mart and Target? They are usually off on the far side of town in the industrial districts. The likely hood of these being picked cleaned would be slim. It would be a one stop shop. My resupply plans include out of the way places like these.

[mitunnelrat]

re: the food warehouses. These are going to be just like the supermarkets, imo. They're too well known to be of any benefit, with the risks far too great. There are arguments all across the 'net on this subject, and the overwhelming consensus is to avoid them. Just advancing some food for thought there.

Here was my response from that early in the thread, 2. Its a good idea, but they're definitely not forgotten or ignored.

[2die4]

Didn't see your post for some reason. It doesn't have to be a Walmart distro center. I'd be scouting out the dollar store distros. Restaurant distros like Cisco maybe be a safer option if you were after food.

Enough food stocked and renewable resources would keep me from scrounging for food but I do believe I'd be out for medical items and other necessities that I couldn't grow or create . A dollar store distro center would fulfill those needs.

[Xzaniel]

Let's face it. Preps WILL run out eventually and you cant possible put enough supplies back for every contingency...

The obvious places (like supermarkets, pharmacies, hospitals, and corner stores) will be picked over fairly well.

List some places that you can think of that are not so obvious for essential supplies. Also list what could be found to ensure your survival.



Izzy initiates the thread with "preps WILL run out" so in this SHTF scenario the time frame is long term and infra structure is not restored and the 'obvious places' are picked over.

I believe auto marts will be made into compounds by this time and will need to be assaulted for the salvageable items.

Malls (strip malls or covered malls) will be dangerous but that's where I'd go.

I'd seek out the craft stores, you have bags of marbles (sling ammo). Decorative bamboo (weapons and building). Glass & tin canisters, baskets, reams of fabric (canvases too) string, yarn & hemp, Thin wires (snares) glues all types (super glues, epoxies & hot melts) Xacto-knives and craft hammers and pliers.

Then head to the pet store. Animals are gone or dead, dog food and cat food gone... Fish flakes! All it is, is dried pulverized fish, hamster food, bird food all would be edible but could use to bait traps or lure fish. The meal worms would be beetles by now load up on them (they'd still be in the container) and get a Rubbermaid tote and breed the beetles to get more worms (never ending supply [also you could start now to raise cockroaches and crickets]) don't forget the activated charcoal and filters!

That's my 2 cents worth.

[ladyhk13]

Izzy initiates the thread with "preps WILL run out" so in this SHTF scenario the time frame is long term and infra structure is not restored and the 'obvious places' are picked over.

I believe auto marts will be made into compounds by this time and will need to be assaulted for the salvageable items.

Malls (strip malls or covered malls) will be dangerous but that's where I'd go.

I'd seek out the craft stores, you have bags of marbles (sling ammo). Decorative bamboo (weapons and building). Glass & tin canisters, baskets, reams of fabric (canvases too) string, yarn & hemp, Thin wires (snares) glues all types (super glues, epoxies & hot melts) Xacto-knives and craft hammers and pliers.

Then head to the pet store. Animals are gone or dead, dog food and cat food gone... Fish flakes! All it is, is dried pulverized fish, hamster food, bird food all would be edible but could use to bait traps or lure fish. The meal worms would be beetles by now load up on them (they'd still be in the container) and get a Rubbermaid tote and breed the beetles to get more worms (never ending supply [also you could start now to raise cockroaches and crickets]) don't forget the activated charcoal and filters!

That's my 2 cents worth.

I like your idea about pet stores and the hobby stores. That is thinking outside of the box and your items that can be used from those places are excellent. Great post.

[Katrina]

I would think Goodwill, Salvation Army stores and resale shops would be a good place to pick up clothing and other small items in a SHTF long term situation and I don't know if anyone would think of places like that. Also if you are near a college or university you could go and look in the kitchens, the heating plant, water treatment plants or the dorms for that matter. They would also have ground keepers areas for fertilizer, batteries, etc for the maintenance of the campus.

[Xzaniel]

Katrina those are some good places too. We do a lot of 'thrifting' already.

This just came to mind, I just joined a small gym, when SHTF no one will be going to the gym, but (at least this one) has supplements on hand to sell... So protein bars, buckets of protein powder and supplement drinks could last a year or better from what I see there.

[bacpacker]

That is one I would have never considered and will most likely be untouched until some starts scavanging metal.

[Kesephist]

Another thing to look at is in places like Wal-mart and Costco or other warehouse club stores, after things have been stripped to the bare shelves, what about the electric fork lifts? The deep cycle batteries would be an increadible addition to a BOL or other location. Also some places have propane powered fork lifts and might still have some in the removable tanks.

Gee, thanks.

(Wal-Mart employee, thanks ever so much for asking.)

You are making the wrong assumption.The aholes that loot wal-marts or targets will go the whole deal and set the place to the torch, after it's been effectively picked clean, out of pure frustration if nothing else.

A little bit off to the side, and yes, I am gonna be called a ghoul for bringing it up... as though this whole thread was virgin-white to begin with. Stinks to be me, but here goes.

What happens to the dead, and their gear?

[Sniper-T]

I think it is a given that they will be scavenged as fast as they are created

[Illini Warrior]

Gee, thanks.

(Wal-Mart employee, thanks ever so much for asking.)

You are making the wrong assumption.The aholes that loot wal-marts or targets will go the whole deal and set the place to the torch, after it's been effectively picked clean, out of pure frustration if nothing else.

A little bit off to the side, and yes, I am gonna be called a ghoul for bringing it up... as though this whole thread was virgin-white to begin with. Stinks to be me, but here goes.

What happens to the dead, and their gear?


nobody ever wants to talk about The Dark Side .... after the retail are looted & burned - the residential areas tore from asunder - next comes the body picking .... you'll eventually see totally naked dead bodies left to rot - picked clean .... there'll be a market for the clothes - especially heavy winter gear - the shoes/boots will become a premium .... anyone with a backpack becomes the supreme target .....

[ElevenBravo]

Anything that we might think of, will already be picked by the time we got to it. Either have it in your basement or run the 99% chance risk of never having it post SHTF (If were talking about a national SHTF situation here).

It only takes a matter of minutes after an emergency and all the common locations will ALREADY be looted. Not much longer and some creative thinking, all the OTHER places will have been looted.

I do however keep a mental note of many things... like the location of propane bottles that can be obtained, which might be overlooked by the panicked sheeple.

Hunger is a great motivator, like GF mentioned. The more hunger, the more motivated. Within 2 months, maybe less... if you dont have bullets to protect your "stash", your DRT, someone WILL kill you for your spam, guaranteed.


When it comes down to it, the 4 B's are where its at, everything else are luxuries... (Beans Bullets BandAids Batteries, each section is further broke down naturally). Now, I do NOT overlook the luxuries, they are VERY important too.. but lets face it, without at least the first 3 B's, nothing else matters.


EB

[Sniper-T]

Shit! Those B's. Shit, shit shit.

And here I have been focussing on Bacardi, Baclava, and Babes...

Damn! Back to square one!

:cool:

[jamesneuen]

Yeah but after the easy good has been used, you can get away with scavenging groups hideouts because not all of them will survive. The ability to provide sustainable food is what will keep people alive long term.

All these shows that have people surviving on canned goods that they are looting years after the event are deluded. All of those will be used up immediately because people will only know those sources. You'll be lucky to find a forgotten can of cat food in somebody's basement.

[Sniper-T]

all the cat food cans in my basement aren't forgotten...
;)

[bacpacker]

Should that not read canned cat in your basement?

[ElevenBravo]

T, do you use an All American to can your cats??

EB

[Sniper-T]

Not today... I hug them today! and squeeze them tight... to tenderize them.

And oddly enough, my pressure canner is an all american!
:)

[Kesephist]

nobody ever wants to talk about The Dark Side .... after the retail are looted & burned - the residential areas tore from asunder - next comes the body picking .... you'll eventually see totally naked dead bodies left to rot - picked clean .... there'll be a market for the clothes - especially heavy winter gear - the shoes/boots will become a premium .... anyone with a backpack becomes the supreme target .....

Not all that dark, apparently, amongst this bunch, given the speed they seem to turn to feliphagic humor and banter.

[Illini Warrior]

Not all that dark, apparently, amongst this bunch, given the speed they seem to turn to feliphagic humor and banter.


first thing you learn about, responding to postings, on these prepper sites .... don't talk stark reality .... as much as preppers swear that they are more pragmatic compared to sheeple - they still have part of the head down in that hole .... most of that subset won't even watch movies like Threads and Testament because it hits too close to possible reality ....

[jamesneuen]

Where would I find those to watch? They sound interesting.

[Kesephist]

first thing you learn about, responding to postings, on these prepper sites .... don't talk stark reality .... as much as preppers swear that they are more pragmatic compared to sheeple - they still have part of the head down in that hole .... most of that subset won't even watch movies like Threads and Testament because it hits too close to possible reality ....

Oh, well done... I've watched THREADS, TESTAMENT, THE DAY AFTER, and ON THE EIGHTH DAY. I've also read the California apologist drivel WARDAY. Streiber shoulda stuck to his aliens. Haven't heard a mutter out of Kunetka.

WARDAY has people a lot more rational than reality would allow for after the exchange of nukes (the described limited exchange being so unlikely as to be absurd, and the relatively limited destruction way past unlikely.

[Alas Babylon]

I've watched threads, and Testament, and many more. I though Testament was one of the hardest to watch, but they all leave you numb if you realize just how possible it could be. It motivates me to prep even more. I was reading reviews for a book, and a low score was from a reader that was upset that children were killed in the story. I’m not a tough guy, I do have emotions, and this stuff does bother me, but I hope I understand what could be.

As for unusual places to find resources, I would consider any type of office or standing structure. Break rooms, employee rest areas, restrooms for TP if you get tired of washing old rags. I have a ton of food in a desk drawer in my office. I bet others do too. Beyond food, there are all those other things you need long after the hardware stores are gone. Boat dealers or marinas for fuel and oil, plant nurseries for irrigation pipes so you don’t have to carry that water from your water source. The Boy scout building in my old hometown would be a treasure trove. Basically any place you see can be a resource.

[Illini Warrior]

Where would I find those to watch? They sound interesting.


I've been looking for Testament online for years .... just found a UTube recently .... it was made as ABC TV movie back in 1983 along with The Day After and BBC made Threads .....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXHNfu8lLyE&list=PLd0LhgZxFkVLtg4IZ-1jgGPmwZyhR-66o&feature=c4-overview-vl

[Stormfeather]

Shit! Those B's. Shit, shit shit.

And here I have been focussing on Bacardi, Baclava, and Babes...

Damn! Back to square one!

:cool:
You are looking at it all wrong SniperT, with your 3 B's, you can delegate down the other 3 B's, keep doing what youre doing man, it all works out in the end!

[Sniper-T]

You are looking at it all wrong SniperT, with your 3 B's, you can delegate down the other 3 B's, keep doing what youre doing man, it all works out in the end!

Woot!
I am vindicated!

lol

Honestly I haven't even heard of the movies/books mentioned in the last few posts... anyone got .pdf's or links to .pdf's?

[jamesneuen]

Working on securing them if anyone is interested......

[bacpacker]

Yeah same here. Never heard of those. I'll have to check them out.

[Stormfeather]

Count me in as well please.

[Domeguy]

Me three.

[Sniper-T]

Damn free trade... count me out!

[jamesneuen]

Just send your email addresses to my inbox and I'll send them out to whoever wants them. They aren't the best quality because they are older than dirt but they aren't bad to watch on a tablet or computer. Not sure how they would fair on a large tv though.

[jamesneuen]

Well, strike that. Apparently they are too large to send. I'll post links to a file share and you guys can watch/download them from there.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8elqbecx7h8n9ua/Threads%20on%20Vimeo.mp4?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ltrnyxzoun4g7nq/The%20Day%20After%20%281983%29%20-%20Classic%20Movie%20Channel%20-%20YouTube.mp4?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/k4gpio8cfyv2g4p/Testament%20-%20YouTube.mp4?dl=0

[mitunnelrat]

Shit! Those B's. Shit, shit shit.

And here I have been focussing on Bacardi, Baclava, and Babes...

Damn! Back to square one!

:cool:
You were off track anyway. 4 B's... "buxom" babes

[Sniper-T]

Nah, too many back issues with buxom.

I would much prefer 'blithe'

[Illini Warrior]

another decent SHTF movie that came to UTube just recently is Remnants .... a prepper fav because of it's Lights Out type theme .... a NC subdivision fights to survive after a solar flare causes a grid down SHTF ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWZC8TymTtA&list=PL602B200993C1F001&index=198

[Katrina]

But Sniper, do you call them George first?

[Sniper-T]

George? Yikes! I was thinking Brittany, Bonnie, Bambi, or Barbara.

Shit! I'd even take a Bertha before a George!

:p

[Gunfixr]

I'll have to look for those movies. I think I've seen The Day After, but none of the others.

Don't assume for a minute that anything will be overlooked. Some places will be hit later than others, but they will all be hit.
We are not that special. If we can think of it, so can someone else.
The whole area will be picked clean like a skeleton cleaned by beetles.

Really, I've often thought that, if it could be safely pulled off, the scavenging should be done first, to make the supplies last. Kind of a "get it while it's available" thing. But, the risk is much higher.

[Sniper-T]

Depending what the event is... if an EMP type of thing is involved, the highways will be littered with vehicles full of supplies. Most people, once stricken motionless will grab what they can carry and try to make it either home or where they were going to on foot.

My old quad and trailer will suit me well in collection, along with Gerry cans and a hose. Timing would have to be a day or so after SHTF, once people abandoned, or a week after, once people died off. After that I would foresee organized groups moving through to 'somewhere' and pillaging all they could.

Aside from the obvious things to collect, other things could include spare parts for vehicles (if applicable), fuel, oil, antifreeze, block heaters, batteries, alternators, starters, wiring, seats, etc. (who can add to this list?)
The obvious I mention refers to the stuff people might be travelling with (bags, coolers, food, water, etc)

Obviously defence would be paramount during this, as stranded travellers would do just about anything for a running quad!

I live a few miles away from a major highway heading out into cottage country, so in the summer it is often very busy with campers and cottagers, so I would expect truckloads, trailer loads, and boatloads of goodies. Luckily for me, most people have new quads, entirely computer controlled, which would be useless except for parts. Most boats now days have at least 2 deep cycle marine batteries; that no one in their right mind would carry off. In the winter, trucks and trailers would be abandoned full of useless snowmobiles and heavy jerry cans full of premium gas. Luckily, I have an old sled (the wife's) that can pull just fine and doesn't have a computer (mine would be toast!)

imo...

[bacpacker]

T I would also take wheels/tires, after the run was over and die off took place, come back and get the radiator and maybe rear end/differential. For that matter coil or leaf springs for the metal. Depending on where you live an old fishing boat might be a good find for future fish harvest.

[Sniper-T]

I have my own boat, but would consider 'spares' that I could distribute to fav areas. else; they would be used for supplies, and or left for fodder.
spring steel is and would always be a commodity! Good call!

[Gunfixr]

Ok, so i went to youtube, and watched remnants, testament, and on the eighth day. I looked up threads, but it all looked like links, some twice as long as others.
Watched them back to back.

[bacpacker]

The reason I mentioned small boats, some folks don't have one but live near favorable bodies of water. With a trolling motor and some batteries and solar panel, you could cover a lot larger area than bank fishing alo e. Even make it easier to put in a trot like e or net.

[Kesephist]

I have my own boat, but would consider 'spares' that I could distribute to fav areas. else; they would be used for supplies, and or left for fodder.
spring steel is and would always be a commodity! Good call!


A post SHTF source for spring steel, if memory serves, will be in the suspensions of older abandoned cars. It will NOT be a 'hit n git' salvage, though. Good material for decent cutting edges of any kind.

Older abandoned cars will be an excellent resource. Loads of wire in the electrical system, tire rubber for when a smoky fire is needed, windows, dead loads of sheet metal ...

As always, I may be contacted at oldvegasfox@reagan.com

[Domeguy]

I would hit the local salvage yards. We have several in our area. Tons and tons of everything a prepper could possibly hope for. All in one convenient stop and shop. They even have the tools to get what you need easier. And any electrical device can be made to run from
solar powered if you have a battery, an inverter, and extra wire. Things like charge controllers would just make them easier to charge and use.

[Caveman Survival]

I agree with domeguy, salvage yards would be a gold mine for spare parts, building materials, containers, hoses, rubber, etc. short term, stores, walmarts, malls, costcos would be taking your life into your own hands. Corner stores might fair better if ya get there early and the owner hasn't fortified it yet. Long term these places would be nothing more than ghost towns and fortified locations for gangs and groups. Not worth it imho. It will be about foraging... Backyard gardens, farmers fields, back country harvesting. That's where the grub will be found long term. You may find eats from time to time, but I think what you'd get wouldn't be worth the danger. A couple of 'found' tins of tuna aren't going to feed a group, and there's a good chance yer Gonna have to beat the MAG that has holed up there to get it.

I honestly think that raiding, hunting and gathering parties will be the only thing to keep a MAG going long term until they are able to put down fully defended roots.

[jamesneuen]

Yeah, but with foraging it takes more than 12 square miles of non tended woodland to provide for a family of four. And that's only a supplement for their other sources of food.

I have been and always will be an advocate of growing your own things or at least tending to your surroundings to promote certain growth.

[izzyscout21]

I would be very careful on how you use the term "raiding".

I'm now going to go "raid" the fridge.

[Caveman Survival]

Yeah, but with foraging it takes more than 12 square miles of non tended woodland to provide for a family of four. And that's only a supplement for their other sources of food.

I have been and always will be an advocate of growing your own things or at least tending to your surroundings to promote certain growth.

I fully agree James, but let's not forget that growing a garden won't be started on day zero. Unless you are living off radishes you won't / can't harvest for 50 to 150 days. Tack on another month or two (at a very optimistic minimum) to have a location, security, and a MAG semi-infrastructure in place and you could be looking at 5-6 months before you can harvest your garden. Up north our growing season is only 5-6 months (at best) so if shit went down in spring, by fall we MIGHT be able to eat (beans, peas, summer gourds). If things went south in October or later we wouldn't be able to harvest for 11-12 months. Store shelves are bare in the first couple of weeks. Secondary sources (offices, vending machines, cafeterias, etc) with undoubtedly fall within the next couple of months.

Hardcores will still be sitting pretty with their personal food reserves (providing they haven't the need to abandon them already) but the majority will be dwindling down their reserves by this point.

Currently I'm good for about 3 months, but that is without providing aid for additional family members and close friends. Longer than that and I am entering crisis mode. It's one of the reasons that I go out on day hikes within an hour of my home location and make recorded notes of flora and fauna in the area, as well as farms and their crops. 12 square miles is a lot of area to cover and hope to find something, that's why I have put in the grunt work NOW, to hopefully beat others to the punch.

I also guerrilla garden every spring and plant a few things in hard to discover places. I would say I am able to harvest at least 50-60% of what I plant.

[jamesneuen]

But that's why, if you have the space and capability to garden you should begin now. I have no idea how a MAG using a BOL would be able to sustain it unless they rotated out who took care of it and already had a place in mind.

I get what you're saying about guerrilla gardening. I did it when I lived near woods with the wild onion, black berries and such.

[Caveman Survival]

James- if you have the space and capability to garden now, then the scavenging for supplies (food stuffs) is a non-issue. I am working under the premise that the OP has laid out. The need for scavenging due to whatever reason is upon us. I do have a well planned garden. I do not have acreage. Depending on the reason to need to scavenge, I may not have a garden and may need to start over somewhere else. I never, repeat NEVER want to rely on what I have, because it may be taken away from me in an instant, so I also make sure that I fit into my plans what I can get as well as what I have.

And if you don't have an idea how a MAG using a BOL would be able to sustain itself, I suggest that you begin to imagining how it could now. It's better to have half assed hypothetical plans to work with than trying to create it from scratch. In my scenarios I plan for just me and my immediate family, me and my extended family, me and my MAG friends, and me and strangers. Each scenario has a different plan of action, but the common denominator of each is the plausibility of it being put into action. It may not work out to plan, but at least I have a framework to begin with.

[Illini Warrior]

But that's why, if you have the space and capability to garden you should begin now. I have no idea how a MAG using a BOL would be able to sustain it unless they rotated out who took care of it and already had a place in mind.

I get what you're saying about guerrilla gardening. I did it when I lived near woods with the wild onion, black berries and such.


I don't know your definition of a MAG is .... but I have the same definition as the commonality .... a MAG isn't the same thing a prepper group that is pre-planned unit with a BOL and joint supplies ....

a MAG is just a Mutual Alliance Group or Mutual Armed Group .... neighbors or friends coming together for mutual defense ....

[realist]

But that's why, if you have the space and capability to garden you should begin now. I have no idea how a MAG using a BOL would be able to sustain it unless they rotated out who took care of it and already had a place in mind.

I get what you're saying about guerrilla gardening. I did it when I lived near woods with the wild onion, black berries and such.

That is exactly what I am doing. In the past three weeks I have put in 600+ square feet of raised beds lined with hardware wire. This way I do not have to worry about gophers and the soil is easy to work by hand.

So for those who have a BOL I recommend you stage some good compost or fertilizer so you will have it on hand for your garden. It takes too long to compost material when you need it now.

[Sniper-T]

I fully agree James, but let's not forget that growing a garden won't be started on day zero. Unless you are living off radishes you won't / can't harvest for 50 to 150 days. Tack on another month or two (at a very optimistic minimum) to have a location, security, and a MAG semi-infrastructure in place and you could be looking at 5-6 months before you can harvest your garden. Up north our growing season is only 5-6 months (at best) so if shit went down in spring, by fall we MIGHT be able to eat (beans, peas, summer gourds). If things went south in October or later we wouldn't be able to harvest for 11-12 months...

This isn't necessarily true CS. If you have a decent shelter and can heat it, there is no reason why you cannot grow inside year round, and definitely in the winter.

I started all my seeds this year in January and February, when it was -30C outside. If need be, I would build a rack system in front of all my South facing windows and cover them with plants.

[Caveman Survival]

You are right sniper, I'm just looking at the scenario from a completely different timeline ( and possibly derailed this train - sorry OP). If a collapse happened tomorrow and I have to leave (without a proper BOL) I, as would most without a BOL, would have a very tough time surviving the coming winter. One does not simply 'find' a compound that is suitable for long term habitation of a reasonable sized group. And if you do find one, odds are it would be after several previous failed attempts (prior established MAG already habitations there, indefensible, to close to ground zero or masses/mobs, etc) .

I think that I tend to look for impossible situations and worst case scenarios and try to find solutions to every horrible factor that can present itself (it's how I perceive that things will actually happen.) If a collapse happens in the fall or winter, without a pre-determined BOL, you would need to have the people, resources, and location, which could take a significant amount of time, before an infrastructure for building a garden could happen. Now if it were to happen in early or mid winter, digging through enough frozen ground to cart it inside your compound to establish a garden for 5-20 people (ymmv) is a Herculean feat in itself.

Until everything is established, scavenging, foraging and raiding will be our livelihood. Once the infrastructure has been established, and providing that most of your group has made it through the first 6 months, then everything that everyone has said prior is perfectly doable. Again, imho. And this is all hypothetical to my situation, which is without having a REAL BOL of my own (I have avenues of safety, but not of my own design)

[Sniper-T]

I don't know your definition of a MAG is .... but I have the same definition as the commonality .... a MAG isn't the same thing a prepper group that is pre-planned unit with a BOL and joint supplies ....

a MAG is just a Mutual Alliance Group or Mutual Armed Group .... neighbors or friends coming together for mutual defense ....

MAG: Mutual Assistance Group

A group of people coming together for a common goal, or common good. 'Defence' is just one aspect... IMO.

[Domeguy]

Most of the sheeple out there most likely don't have enough food in their homes to last more than a few weeks. And if something happened right this second to stop the food supply from being restocked, I think all hell would break loose. Hungry sheeple are in my option the most the most dangerous animal in existence. Within the first hour of a disaster, money and common sense MAY be the norm, but after the first hour, they both will cease to exist. Violence will come into play. Money will still work for about 24-48 hours, but you better have a lot of it, as prices will increase by the minute. After 48 hours, money will be useless, and guns will be what is used in obtaining food. Stores will be locked up and guarded by the owners and their group, or taken over by by others, both groups using guns. Shortly after that, the sheeple will come looking for anything to eat, and this will be the most dangerous time. They are near starving, and will do anything. They will try to take the store by what ever means, and after many have been killed, the rest will then decide, " if I can't have it, than neither can you."
It is at this time, 2-4 weeks into the scenario, after their kitchen cabinets are empty, along with their stomachs, they will set fire to the food stores that remain under others control. There won't be a Walmart, Cosco, or local Quickie mart left after 4 weeks to loot. They will all be gone, taken out by the samesheeple who once depended upon them for their own survival. IMO.

[Sniper-T]

^
Optimist... Is that you?

[Domeguy]

^
Optimist... Is that you?

If you don't have it ALREADY locked away and hidden, you are not ever going to have it! IMO

[Sniper-T]

Ooops, sorry, Pessimist, I thought I saw your brother...

rofl.
:)

[Domeguy]

It may be an unrealistic goal, but I plan to stockpile as much food as possible. At 54, I'm giving myself 30+ more years to live. If things go totally bag, I will still have a roof over my head, wood heat in the winter, all the free, clean water I need, the general day to day things needed for general upkeep, the only thing I won't have is food. I don't garden very well, but if that time comes, I'll do my best. But food is still up front as my most basic need. So stockpiling it will be.

[Sniper-T]

^
atta kid!

[Domeguy]

My plan is to put a bunker about the size of a semi trailer into the side of the hill behind the house. Keep it cool and make sure it stays dry by making the back end 4-6 inches higher than the front. Camouflage the entrance, hook up power from the solar panels (eventually) and it will also serve as my storm shelter, root cellar, safe, and bat cave.....um, great......OPSEC....Now I'm going to shoot any one who reads this, so stop reading...really, I mean it. Stop.

[Domeguy]

I just re-read the entire thread, and came up with a few more. The golf courses will have possibly a hundred or more golf carts. The carts will have deep cycle batteries, and possibly the charger on board to. If not, they will be within the cart holding area. Look around for an electrical meter, (ammeter, this will be very handy for testing a batteries charge). Check the grounds keepers storage area for chemicals, pipes and hoses, water tanks and such, then walk on over to the pro shop for a new golf bag. Who is going to suspect your AR and Shot guns are hidden inside under the colorful knitted club covers. Then finally end your day of shopping with a drink or 2, or 12 at the 19th hole, or the club bar. Also when shopping at your local interstate, be on the look out for the solar powered signs. That little package has all you will need for a mini power plant. It will have the solar panel, charge controller, battery, lights, and in some cases, possibly even an inverter. Hook several together to make a larger system. Be on the look out for ANY solar panels, as they will be a highly prized item, especially for bartering. Look at neighbors homes, on Top of RVs, local businesses, and even solar power stations. Do a satellite search on your computer as soon as you can to see where some are located in your neighborhood. Libraries will be full of books to learn how to do everything, use that knowledge. And finally, this may be taboo for some, but there are churches, synagogues, temples, ect. everywhere, and they may be full of supplies. You may want to say a short prayer first before you kick in the door.

[Stormfeather]

Our local military installation has solar panels located on every 3rd light pole out in the training areas, there literally has to be thousands of them out there.
We have a gold course very near us, so Im going to keep that in mind as far as batteries go, I hadnt really thought about it but it does makes sense now that you mention it!

[Katrina]

That's why I'm going for the solar shingles, at first glance they look like regular shingles and won't call attention to us. I am also looking at a company here that does portable solar for the military. Supposedly they can power a lot and be able to move the generator/converter when and wherever ever they want. I also want to put up a flagpole that doubles as a wind turbine, just have to check township regulations on that to make sure I can go up high enough and get the funds to do it;)

[Domeguy]

I haven't heard much about solar shingles in the last decade or so. In the past, they had gotten very poor marks, and to be honest, I don't remember why. They were a good idea at the time, but for some reason, they didn't work well. I hope the new company you are looking into has perfected them, just try and ask a ton of questions on how they have made them better. Don't mean to be bossy, I just don't want to see someone get burned by a company making big promises they may not be able to back up.

[Illini Warrior]

MAG: Mutual Assistance Group

A group of people coming together for a common goal, or common good. 'Defence' is just one aspect... IMO.


Assistance is a good "A" for the acronym also ... some MAGs like to keep it on the pure defensive side and make it plan & simple .... unfortunately one of the usual drawbacks is the organization .... not always cleanly detailed on the fine points - too many meetings around the community bonfire after toooo many beers ...

[msomnipotent]

I would plan on hitting up the self storage facilities around me. We have several, and none have 24/7 employees. If I'm desperate enough to open someone's locker, I'm not really worried about cameras. While I am at it, the U-haul self storage has a giant propane tank for refills, and lots of trucks and trailers to help me get it home. I plan on leaving my credit card to pay for it all.

[Kesephist]

And finally, this may be taboo for some, but there are churches, synagogues, temples, ect. everywhere, and they may be full of supplies. You may want to say a short prayer first before you kick in the door.

um... "MAY be taboo"?

Religious locales will be among the softest of targets for the mobs, and for the least amount of supplies. Torn up within days for the precious metals, candles,
and anything they can use to start a fire elsewhere.

Have to admit, this is one of the most uncomfortable replies.

[Kesephist]

I would plan on hitting up the self storage facilities around me. We have several, and none have 24/7 employees. If I'm desperate enough to open someone's locker, I'm not really worried about cameras. While I am at it, the U-haul self storage has a giant propane tank for refills, and lots of trucks and trailers to help me get it home. I plan on leaving my credit card to pay for it all.

IF SHTF is set off by a money collapse, such plastic irony would be thundering.

Car lots are difficult if not impossible to defend against looters or rioters. U-haul or Penske or any open marshalling yard, too. I've noted UPS and FedEx have walled yards, by and large. The most impervious yards out here are the cab company yards, for fear some gang-banger they have long-hauled may come back with a krewe, and address their billing tactics with sledges and bats.

[Illini Warrior]

IF SHTF is set off by a money collapse, such plastic irony would be thundering.

Car lots are difficult if not impossible to defend against looters or rioters. U-haul or Penske or any open marshalling yard, too. I've noted UPS and FedEx have walled yards, by and large. The most impervious yards out here are the cab company yards, for fear some gang-banger they have long-hauled may come back with a krewe, and address their billing tactics with sledges and bats.


at a self storage place, I'd be more worried running into someone like myself picking up my RV or stored camping gear .... especially if my gear was in your truck ....

- - - Updated - - -


um... "MAY be taboo"?

Religious locales will be among the softest of targets for the mobs, and for the least amount of supplies. Torn up within days for the precious metals, candles,
and anything they can use to start a fire elsewhere.

Have to admit, this is one of the most uncomfortable replies.


they'll be refugee centers .... same thing with the public buildings that aren't being used as command & control .... that's why you have an area previously scoped out - places to avoid

[ElevenBravo]

Scoped out... places to avoid... supplies and locations. Needs to be implemented into some kind of plan. When an event happens, the fam can open the plan book and know what to do, because fear and adrenalin can mess up a persons memory!!

[Kesephist]

Scoped out... places to avoid... supplies and locations. Needs to be implemented into some kind of plan. When an event happens, the fam can open the plan book and know what to do, because fear and adrenalin can mess up a persons memory!!

A plan book written up BY HAND... or at most, typed or printed up with an air-gapped, non-wifi system. Sorry, sorry Nephew Norbert, you don't get a free line into prepper bug out plans on THIS one either. Si***rf****r.

I'd say every month do updates with the whole family, burn and flush changed sections, and keep it somewhere in the home -20, secure but easy to get to if you know what you're after.

[ElevenBravo]

Hand written, book in a secure place... cant agree more.

Also, should have designated mail drops... in the event you need to get a message to someone when your separated, it would be critical!

EB

[Domeguy]

at a self storage place, I'd be more worried running into someone like myself picking up my RV or stored camping gear .... especially if my gear was in your truck ....

- - - Updated - - -




they'll be refugee centers .... same thing with the public buildings that aren't being used as command & control .... that's why you have an area previously scoped out - places to avoid

By churches, I was mostly speaking of the smaller, out of the way churches we have here in the south. You can't swing a dead possum around here without hitting one. I can think of 5-6 within a few hours walking distance of my home, and I live in the middle of nowhere. I agree, larger places of worship would definately be a no-no

[Kesephist]

By churches, I was mostly speaking of the smaller, out of the way churches we have here in the south. You can't swing a dead possum around here without hitting one. I can think of 5-6 within a few hours walking distance of my home, and I live in the middle of nowhere. I agree, larger places of worship would definately be a no-no

If word gets out of looting any place of worship, large or small, the perps will be extremely lucky only to be hung. There are absolutes, even in post SHTF scenarios, lines that are NOT crossed, and raiding a church is one. If you'll pardon my candor, and even if you won't, such conduct is probably one of the matches which will help IGNITE a SHTF.

Given the large number of churches in the area, seems to me it might be actually a damn smart piece of prep to go talk with them now and develop SHTF plans, if they don't already have them.

I can speak to this all rather neutrally, as I'm relatively surely damned, but not so much, though, that I need to see places of faith torn apart from greed or vengeance in an aftermath.

[Sniper-T]

meh!
A major church (RC) that I frequented in Toronto, had frequent breakins. none were ever reported. "God will judge thee"...
SHTF may be different, but I wouldn't want to test it!

[helomech]

I can say if I am hungry no place is off limits.

[Domeguy]

I thought this be taboo for some, as I mentioned. But when I wrote it, I was speaking of the small southern churches you find in the south, which are everywhere. And I didn't mean the very first day. I was thinking for scavenging, which means to me, when the worst of what ever the situation is, is over, and most of the sheeple have died off without Walmart there 24 hrs. a day. I think by then, it's fair game.

[Illini Warrior]

By churches, I was mostly speaking of the smaller, out of the way churches we have here in the south. You can't swing a dead possum around here without hitting one. I can think of 5-6 within a few hours walking distance of my home, and I live in the middle of nowhere. I agree, larger places of worship would definately be a no-no


What you need to realize is that there's not going to be many "out of the way" places to begin - when it comes to a serious SHTF .... people are going to run into jammed/closed interstates & state highways and start fanning out like army ants across the countryside - driving & hiking .... a 30+ gpm car with 5 gallons of gas in the tank will get some of these refugee types into the middle of nowhere on county gravels ....

you also have the FEMA factor ..... if you read the command level info you can see how an evacuation of a urban area could effect you .... you could very well get a busload of Section 8 housing residents dumped on your "out of the way" town .... possibly even a horde coming from a FEMA shelter that was established in your area and then abandoned ....

[helomech]

What you need to realize is that there's not going to be many "out of the way" places to begin - when it comes to a serious SHTF .... people are going to run into jammed/closed interstates & state highways and start fanning out like army ants across the countryside - driving & hiking ....
.

I disagree with this completely. Yes there will be lots of people stranded, but very few will get very far from a major hwy. Even fewer will just start walking down empty dirt roads or through the woods. I am a hour away from any interstate, and 4 miles off of any road that is not a dead end.

Here we have way more dirt roads than paved roads, and very few aren't dead ends.

[Illini Warrior]

I disagree with this completely. Yes there will be lots of people stranded, but very few will get very far from a major hwy. Even fewer will just start walking down empty dirt roads or through the woods. I am a hour away from any interstate, and 4 miles off of any road that is not a dead end.

Here we have way more dirt roads than paved roads, and very few aren't dead ends.


???? .... why? .... you think they'll just camp out along the interstates forever? .... you ever hear of the "interstate collision theory"? .... goes back to the nuk SHTF days of the 80s .... the interstates run between two major cities - a stream of refugees leave City#1 for City#2 - likewise refugees leave City#2 for #1 ..... they meet halfway and either realize the futility or there's roadblocks creating a mid-city nitemare .... almost every exit on that interstate will experience the refugee spill out .... people will start their alternative drive and the unlucky will begin a hike to the nearest town down that exit road ....

if you think basically 60 miles off an interstate is an insurmountable journey - you better re-evaluate your planning .... the true survivors among those hikers will eat the weak along the way and arrive as one mean hungry SOBing raider ....

[ElevenBravo]

I think Helo is pretty much set up to avoid any city exodus, which is good..

Churches: If they had large stores of food, yeah.. Id give it a thought, but Ive never been in a church that kept much of (survival) value... Personally, I would just go past a church.

Log what you know is where... If a stop & rob that is out of the way has a propane refill center, mark it on a map with a number, note on a sheet what it is. Were not talking about ROBBING were talking about life and death, and there is such a thing as survival of the fittest... those that fail to plan, plan to fail.. and theres a whole lot of truth to that.

But lets back it up a bit, if your not ALREADY prepared for some type of emergency... shame on you. You already know better and should be setting back as you go.

For me, $$$ is so damn tight with extortion style health insurance premiums (over $800 a month), after all the other deductions and taxes Ive got less than $400 a week TAKE HOME pay, and thats *IF* I work 6 hours over time on Saturday.

I know I need to prep, I know I need to set goods back, I just dont have the money.... IE: Living check to check.

So, there it is... Im one of the crowd that because of situation MAY have to scavenge, and honestlly I do not want to.

But do not be mistaken, and heed the call, a hungry man will do ANYTHING for food.. You may have to risk your life defending a single can of Speghetti-Os and I dont say that lightly and I dont say it with an ounce of humor. Keep that in the back of your mind. The lesson in that statement is (1) You dont want to be that desperate guy (2) desperate people will do anything they need to get what they need, humanity, morals and ethics will be put aside for that period of time... Be prepared.

I am a BIG beans & bullets guy... Bullets to defend the beans, stores without means and ability to defend and protect as as good as never having them.

Solar collectors, ham radios, generators, etc.. is ALL LUXURY. If your not prepared to be happy running off a kerosene lantern and eat out of the garden most of the time NOW, how are you going to do it 6 or 9 months from now when your out of all your propane and gasoline and batteries?

Better learn to fish & hunt while your at it... Food World is going to be a ghost town. Even with the skills, you will NOT always come home with meat, actually... you will likely SELDOM come home with meat, but without the skills to hunt/fish and the ability to PROCESS your game into food... Well, I hope you like chewing on tree bark.

I may post more later, but that should cover the core basis for now...

EB

[helomech]

???? .... why? .... you think they'll just camp out along the interstates forever? .... you ever hear of the "interstate collision theory"? .... goes back to the nuk SHTF days of the 80s .... the interstates run between two major cities - a stream of refugees leave City#1 for City#2 - likewise refugees leave City#2 for #1 ..... they meet halfway and either realize the futility or there's roadblocks creating a mid-city nitemare .... almost every exit on that interstate will experience the refugee spill out .... people will start their alternative drive and the unlucky will begin a hike to the nearest town down that exit road ....

if you think basically 60 miles off an interstate is an insurmountable journey - you better re-evaluate your planning .... the true survivors among those hikers will eat the weak along the way and arrive as one mean hungry SOBing raider ....

Most people, especially city people will not head out into the woods. At least none I have ever met. They are like cattle and will stick to paths. Maybe a few will make it, but not any large numbers. It is actually well over 60 miles in a straight line. They would have to cross lakes and rivers to get to my place from the interstate. Again large crowds will not walk down hundreds of miles of dirt roads most of which are dead ends. We may have a few stragglers stumble upon our place, but no large numbers.

Also you are talking about 247 miles between Houston and Dallas, the two cities closest to me. The closest is a 2 hour drive on a great day. Do you realize how many places there are for people to wander around. The odds of any of those folks ever getting to my place is like winning the lotto. The closest town to me is 7k people and very few of them even know there is a house where I live.

[ElevenBravo]

Most sheeple wont walk more than 2 or 3 miles, after that there cigarette lungs will give out and they likely wont go further. Seriously. That should reduce your threat level by 30%-40% I would think...


EB

[helomech]

Exactly. And in a SHTF situation I will have so many booby traps around my house it will be insane. I will also have the road blocked 3 miles from my house. I can promise these woods are so thick, everyone but the most dedicated will give up. Tracking deer I have to crawl through most of the tracking.

[Domeguy]

I have to agree with Helo here. This thread is titled "scavenging for supplies". Scavengers feed from the deaths of others. They usually don't cause the deaths, but find a way to live from others losses. I feel as a scavenger, taking something is not stealing. I am not taking something from someone who is alive, and may only stay alive with that item. I am taking an item from someone who once owned it, but who's death has left it for others to have. And as a scavenger, I am wise enough to understand while I have this item, it is mine. But upon my untimely death from choking on an expired SlimJim, this item is soon to be the property of the next one to step over my dead body. Circle of life, my friends...circle of life!

[Illini Warrior]

Most people, especially city people will not head out into the woods. At least none I have ever met. They are like cattle and will stick to paths. Maybe a few will make it, but not any large numbers. It is actually well over 60 miles in a straight line. They would have to cross lakes and rivers to get to my place from the interstate. Again large crowds will not walk down hundreds of miles of dirt roads most of which are dead ends. We may have a few stragglers stumble upon our place, but no large numbers.

Also you are talking about 247 miles between Houston and Dallas, the two cities closest to me. The closest is a 2 hour drive on a great day. Do you realize how many places there are for people to wander around. The odds of any of those folks ever getting to my place is like winning the lotto. The closest town to me is 7k people and very few of them even know there is a house where I live.


nobody is talking about YOUR individual situation .... you can live in FT Knox for all I care ... but if you think even the stupidest naive shepple are going to sit on the interstate until they starve to death or freeze up solid is just being ignorant .... everyday in this country there's interstate pile ups and you can watch drivers take alternative action .... just because people don't prep and aren't prepper equipped - doesn't mean they aren't intelligent, crafty, inventive, and very prepared physically .... there's going to be sheeple still humming along loooooong after the best prepared preppers are down & out ....

[ElevenBravo]

Dome has one of the best replies so far IMHO.

EB

[helomech]

nobody is talking about YOUR individual situation .... you can live in FT Knox for all I care ... but if you think even the stupidest naive shepple are going to sit on the interstate until they starve to death or freeze up solid is just being ignorant .... everyday in this country there's interstate pile ups and you can watch drivers take alternative action .... just because people don't prep and aren't prepper equipped - doesn't mean they aren't intelligent, crafty, inventive, and very prepared physically .... there's going to be sheeple still humming along loooooong after the best prepared preppers are down & out ....

I never freaking said they would sit on the interstate. I said they won't head off into the freaking woods, and I am right. They will stick to the roads, very few will wonder more than 100 yards are so from established roads.

They will head up the interstate till the next exit, then wonder around those areas. I have been in many evacuations with the interstate clogged up, and never have I seen anyone head off into the woods. They will sit by there car for a very long time before they even begin to try something else.

- - - Updated - - -


Quote Originally Posted by Illini Warrior View Post
What you need to realize is that there's not going to be many "out of the way" places to begin - when it comes to a serious SHTF .... people are going to run into jammed/closed interstates & state highways and start fanning out like army ants across the countryside - driving & hiking ....


This is your post, and I say you are wrong. Very few will head off into the woods, they will stay within sight of major roads and hwys. I don't know what the area is where you are, but here there are many many out of the way things, that even locals know nothing about. If people had to walk they would never see most of the area.

[Domeguy]

"everyday in this country there's interstate pile ups and you can watch drivers take alternative action .... just because people don't prep and aren't prepper equipped - doesn't mean they aren't intelligent, crafty, inventive, and very prepared physically .... there's going to be sheeple still humming along loooooong after the best prepared preppers are down & out"...

Sheeple can today take alternative actions is something is wrong...true. But it's because 'nothing' is wrong. What's Buffy going to do when she can't pick up her Peaches, her poodle baby, because she can't get through the traffic jam caused by a wreck, and the police arent going to show up as over 1/2 of the police have walked off to be with their family's. What about Biff, who stopped into Starbucks and can't leave due to the tire iron in his radiator, and it looks like AAA isn't coming. Your assumption is, as I think you stated, the government or FEMA is going to help them. This may happen if something small scale occurs. Then our 'scavenger' scenario doesn't apply. But if Walmart stops getting food daily, they are going to sit in their homes and wait for the next Walmart truck...which in this scenario isn't happening. Once the cubbards are bare, then they will look for food. By then, it will be too late. Most won't last a week due to ignorance, and some at the hands of their buddy's. Biff will snap Buffy's neck just so he can eat her poodle. Survival of the fittest...and they won't be the fittest.

[Sniper-T]

snap the poodles neck and eat buffy?

[Domeguy]

snap the poodles neck and eat buffy?

Apparently you have some unresolved issues. Did a poodle bite you when you were a child? Could you tell me how it made you feel?

[Sniper-T]

no poodle, but buffy nibbled a little!

I encouraged it a little...
and then a lot!