Horses

[ladyhk13]

I agree with with all of you. Bacpacker you are right on. That is what we are planning. I know that we can get our riding horses for free in our area (yours too bacpacker since you are close to the area I'm talking about). I plan on donkey's for my lifestock since I have heard that they are great against predators, several large work horses for the farming - and I would actually love to ride them as well. The good thing for me is that the realtor that is looking for our propert for us is also an ex jockey and been around horses his whole life so we will be able to learn from him and he will be able to help us greatly. What a wonderful mentor. I can ride and connect with a horse but as far as giving shots or shoeing I have no clue!

[Dropy]

Once we move to alsaka permanantly we be getting some horses for the farm/lodge/homeplace.

[LUNCHBOX]

Going tomorrow to pick up my youngest (shes 4) daughter a pony for her birthday. She hounds us to put her on our horses and its just to soon. Later on she will be ready, training-training-training.

[realist]

Lots of good points. You are so right when it comes to the cost of horses, they are expensive. I haven't had one that would pull a piece of equipment but I have worked them with cattle in the past. It seems along with everything else it tack has gone through the roof. Do not expect to buy a horse and call it good. They have to be ridden frequently in order to make them more reliable. The may not take gasoline but you still have to feed them. Yes you can put them out to pasture but you have to have the pasture. If not then the hay takes up a tremendous amount of space. I'm in an area that does not get snow. I would think that in a situation where there is not tractors that to get in enough hay for a winter would be a huge time commitment. Their feet have to be maintained or they will not be able to move anything. It is easy to call up the farrier or horseshoer to have a set of shoes put on but in a SHTF situation you will need to do this yourself. It is not that hard but you want to make sure that you learn how to do it or you can lame up a horse fast. I guess in a pinch you can even eat them, I know most people think of them as pets, it just needed to be said. How many are you going to need in a SHTF situation. My opinion is that at least one for each person and one spare for every two people. If you are going to do any packing you need to plan extra. If you are going to breed them then you will need extra since the brood mares will not be able to be ridden when until they foal. So are they worth it, well how do you like walking.

BTW you can't just take a horse out an shoot off them or you will land on your head after they throw you. It takes time an training and then some will not tolerate it at all. I would imagine this would go for donkeys and mules as well.

[bacpacker]

You are exactly right on the work tending to horses and the volume of work that would be required to feed them. For 2 people and the ability to have a pack train. I would think you would need 4-5 horses. From my experience raising cattle (and I assume horses would require close to the same amount of feed as cows) around this area you need a minimum of 1-2 acres of pasture per head and a similar amount to grow hay for the winter. For the 5 head that means 10-20 acres just for the horses, plus cattle, goats, sheep, orchard, gardens, vineyards, and anything else you need land for.
Working horses to work the garden, hay fields, grain fields (corn, wheat, other feed stocks will take up a lot of time. On the other hand, to raise the food crops you need to survive a long term situation you will have to do all the work by hand which will take at least as long and will not produce the amount you would get with the animals. Plus you would be doing all travel on foot or bicycle probably.
If SHTF I don't see life being easy regardless of how you work it. All this is assuming SHTF ends up being a long term proposition. farming is one thing I know how to do and I feel like I could make a go of it by going the farming route. I may well be wrong but it's what I'm preparing just as fast as I can.

[dragon5126]

I agree with with all of you. Bacpacker you are right on. That is what we are planning. I know that we can get our riding horses for free in our area (yours too bacpacker since you are close to the area I'm talking about). I plan on donkey's for my lifestock since I have heard that they are great against predators, several large work horses for the farming - and I would actually love to ride them as well. The good thing for me is that the realtor that is looking for our propert for us is also an ex jockey and been around horses his whole life so we will be able to learn from him and he will be able to help us greatly. What a wonderful mentor. I can ride and connect with a horse but as far as giving shots or shoeing I have no clue!

Shots are a piece of cake. shoeing however is a learned and practiced skill, and for all intents and needs you should use a good farrier for this. Also from experience, shoes are not always needed, and can be a problem. if it's a pleasure horse, try to go without, if it's a hard working horse they are needed to protect the hoof. Shoes in the wrong conditions can create just as many problems as not having them when they are needed. This is a subject of massive controversy among people. Another issue with them is how you are keeping the horses, and their personalities, and how well the get along together. Horses kick each other, shoes make bruises into lacerations and some of them very serious.

[dragon5126]

You are exactly right on the work tending to horses and the volume of work that would be required to feed them. For 2 people and the ability to have a pack train. I would think you would need 4-5 horses. From my experience raising cattle (and I assume horses would require close to the same amount of feed as cows) around this area you need a minimum of 1-2 acres of pasture per head and a similar amount to grow hay for the winter. For the 5 head that means 10-20 acres just for the horses, plus cattle, goats, sheep, orchard, gardens, vineyards, and anything else you need land for.
Working horses to work the garden, hay fields, grain fields (corn, wheat, other feed stocks will take up a lot of time. On the other hand, to raise the food crops you need to survive a long term situation you will have to do all the work by hand which will take at least as long and will not produce the amount you would get with the animals. Plus you would be doing all travel on foot or bicycle probably.
If SHTF I don't see life being easy regardless of how you work it. All this is assuming SHTF ends up being a long term proposition. farming is one thing I know how to do and I feel like I could make a go of it by going the farming route. I may well be wrong but it's what I'm preparing just as fast as I can.

Cattle are much easier to feed than horses. Equines require much higher protein levels than cattle since they are a working animal, the same goes for oxen over cattle. Also believe it or not, a horses pulmonary system is much more primitive (notice the huffing when you ride one?) while it works for moving plenty of oxygen into their blood, it makes them super sensitive to mold in the hay they eat where cattle will just maow down on it. Horses should also be fed a balanced grain blend or processed feed to help cover what they may lack in the hay due to the season of growth it was cut from (early season hay is less nutritious). Horses are definetly a major undertaking, and IF you have a full farm, you can be self sufficent with them, but they will eat a substantial part of what they help produce while doing it. Our Percheron alone, consumes almost a full bale of hay a day not counting grains and suppliments, add 15 to 20 gallons of water depending on weather, and you start to get an idea of their needs, and she is just a pleasure horse, but is the class of horse that would be used to plow and draw heavily loaded wagons.

[realist]

Dragon you are so right cattle are much more easier to raise than horses. However if you have the property to raise a bunch of cattle you will need to round them up, so as much as a pain they are horses are a necessity. In a SHTF situation most horses will be pasture fed rather than fed each night with a flake or two of hay. Dragon you must have a huge feed bill with your Percheron. Gone will be the days of the nice bails of alfalfa that was bought at the feed store because the fields are too far away, the bailer no longer works and there are no trucks to deliver it. The logistics of it all can be mind boggling. Okay I have four in my family that means they each get one horse and a pack horse so that is eight. Then I want a couple of spares so I'm at ten..........etc. Soooooooo if you really are doing it right you need a good size ranch or access to a large chunk of BLM land or national forest. There is no way you will be able to do it all without major difficulties. However it can be done just make sure you do your home work. Remember if you want to plow, pull a cart or wagon that is a thing that would need to be mastered. I guess what it comes down to it the first one or two horses are really time consuming because you are aware of their every little need. However as your herd grows the time spent with each one is less and less. The ranch that I worked on was my Uncle's. He would turn the majority of them out each winter and then we would round them back up a couple of weeks before the summer roundup. If they all made it through the winter, we did not have snow, then things were good.

One other thing that you hit on was shoeing. If you are really going to be working the horses you will want shoes. If you are going to do this yourself you really need to learn correctly. The hoof needs to be trimmed and shaped. Shoes need to be properly fitted and then nailed on. Nailed incorrectly and you have problems. For the most part when we got in the horses off the range they were usually in pretty good shape. I found that it was the horses that were in the more confined spaces that we had more problems. I guess that is why the place with one or two horses has to pay more close attention. Just a few thoughts..........

[bacpacker]

Dragon, Realist, you guys are dead on with your thoughts. Most folks I have known have always tried to feed Alfalfa to get extra protein for the horses and have it as clean as possible.
Percheron's or Belguin's are the 2 breeds I have looked at in particular. Percherons are slightly smaller, so I assume would be less costly to feed. Both breeds are great draft horses. for the 2 of us, I think we could get by with 3-4 head to work/ride/pack in decent shape. Even so I don't have enough land right now to handle them. I figure it would take a good 10 or so acres just for the horses.
Learning the Farrier and Vet skills would also be a premium that would have to be addressed ASAP.

[ladyhk13]

I had wanted draft horses to ride as my first choice (right now there is a Percheron for sale for $300. in the paper) and to use on the property. But since our friend can get us horses for free that may change...may end up with 2 draft horses and 2 riding horses. I want them pasture fed as much of the year as possible and that goes to all of the animals we get unless they have to have special food due to their health and not because people say "well that's just the way it's done." We plan on at least 100 acres so I am pretty sure we can raise the animals we want on that without a problem. We may have to bale hay for winter if we get snow but I really want to plant native grasses, clover, alphalfa and other covers that will continue to regenerate and rotate the animals so the pastures regrow. I would really like to go back to the old ways of pasture fed everything. No grains/corn to fatten anything up for "marbling"...just all natural.
We will have to learn more about the anatomy/physiology of horses to make sure they are taken care of properly though because so many things can go wrong. And guys...Do we have to talk about eating our pets again????