Bp I didn,t take it that you were. But thanks for pointing it out, cause I guess I needed to explain the group part better
Bp I didn,t take it that you were. But thanks for pointing it out, cause I guess I needed to explain the group part better
I am me,
I am free,
You can not change me.
If you try, you will see,
That I am unchangeable,
Because I am me.
Having taken a little harder look at this, I have decided that I am going to try and increase my seed stock to what I feel would accomodate 10 folks for 3 years of no harvest to replenish the seed stock. I'm shooting for a well rounded diet but will go heavy on storage root crops such as taters, beets, parsnips, carrots and for winter squash, pumpkins. This will serve as a bulk food for the folks and as a possible food for hogs and such. Other types of seed would be multiple types of greens, brussell sprouts, cabbage, onions, leeks, peppers, cucumbers, beans. I also think the perineal crops like garlic, asparagus, and such would be very crucial as well.
The one crop I can't get my head around is corn. It can be a huge benifit for people as well as animal feed. I am really at a loss as to how much seed to store for it. I've never grown it as a field type crop and don't really know how much it would take per acre and what kind of harvest you could expect from a plot that size. I feel that corn, wheat, and to a lessor extent oats, barley, and soybeans will be the foundation of folks survival foods both from a personal or animal feed standpoint.
Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
corn is a tough one. As much as I love fresh corn on the cob, and canned, and frozen... etc. Corn draws a LOT of nutrients out of the soil for very little return. Corn is generally spaced about a foot apart, and each stalk will yield one, maybe two cobs. but if you factor in the silage for livestock, then it would be a worthy crop.
The farmers around here that grow corn fertilize heavily in the fall, spring and mid summer. but unless you have the manure for that, you might 'kill' off your field in short order.
Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day!
Light a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life!
Cat's are food... not friends!
If you're going to fight, then fight like you're the third monkey on the ramp into Noah's arc... and brother, it's starting to rain.
Sniper I agree with you on corn. There is quite a lot of work for not that much return. The added plus is if you can feed it to the animals that you raise. However I have found that unless you chop it up I have seen a bunch of waste since the stocks were not eaten. Maybe someone else has had better luck. Out here most people will flood irrigate the corn since we do not have the rains that people in the east do. If you have the water it is nice but I think that there are other crops that would produce much more.
Bacpacker you are right on for the perennial plants. That is one thing that I am starting to do. If you have plants that are established and do not have to be planted each year you save a huge amount of time. This would be similar to having fruit trees.
One thing that I did a few years ago, that did well for a couple years was guerrila gardened some sunflowers. I had a big bag for bird food, so one day when I was walking the trails, I took along a few pounds, and hand scattered seeds around in some open areas. They took well, and I had enough for the birds for a couple years. Time to do it again!
I might try the same thing with corn next year. rather than dedicate garden space for it. I will just cast some kernals into some 'extra' areas and see what happens.
Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day!
Light a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life!
Cat's are food... not friends!
If you're going to fight, then fight like you're the third monkey on the ramp into Noah's arc... and brother, it's starting to rain.
I have heard of dried corn stalks being used for cheap fuel (as in build a fire, not gas up your flex-fuel auto), but never done so myself. If you have enough manure to fertilize the cornfield, then don't you have too many animals to feed? Unless im looking at the whole thing wrong. I have looked into rice patties and growing wheat, it looks easier than I expected, but they again, so do a lot of things till you try, lol....I really like the idea of growing a lot of root veggies, and things that store in a cellar well.
I have an interest in nutrition, so a few years ago I worked up a spreadsheet, figuring basic caloric needs for a 6' adult male, a women, kids, etc (kids need more calories than an average sized women, especially teen boys!) and tried to get a good balance of vitamins and minerals. Really, that saying to "eat the rainbow" is all you need to do. Plenty of orange things (sweet potatoes, carrots, squash, etc), green things (green beans, broccoli, spinach, etc), berries are super foods, and luckily you can find those in most parts of the country growing wild. You get the idea. Generally speaking, the more colorful, the more healthy. But that is referring to the color of the "flesh", not the color of the "skin", so an apple is a white food, not a red one, and is not as nutrient dense as say a blueberry, per oz. My family is from northern Wisconsin, they have a "sugar bush", meaning, they make maple syrup, and have for going on 5 generations. That stuff is worth a fortune now, I figure post shtf any natural sweetners like syrup or honey would be liquid gold.
I have been thinking about some of these other things lately too....I like the idea of rotating people initially, so that everyone learns and develops skills in all areas. But then I wonder just how practical it is to have Grandma swinging a hammer or Brother Bob foraging. You have to admit, it also makes sense to have the children and elderly do things like picking berries, foraging for wild edibles, picking weeds & rocks, etc, and having the strong men doing the more manual labor. Probably there is a balance between the two. Some people will and should be rotated around, if nothing else to relieve boredom. But some jobs will probably stay with certain people. Yes, everyone can and should learn to do all they can, but there is no good sense in ignoring that some people are just more cut out for doing certain things. For instance, in a long term shtf, a physically disabled but well educated person might just make the perfect teacher, because even post-shtf I would want my kids to learn to read, write, basic math, history, etc. A teacher will be invaluable. We have a friend who is mostly confined to a wheelchair, but he could do things like make candles, sharpen tools, reload, etc.
Everyone who truly wants to be useful, can be useful, even with limited skills. It's not rocket science to weed a vegetable garden or butcher a chicken. Anyone who is lazy is deadweight, I don't care what their skill is. The Good Book has it right, "if a man will not work, neither shall he eat". Not if he "can't" work, but if he won't.
Huh...some rabbit trail I got there, lol.
I've been thinking about this some more and there are a lot of people who have a hard time cooking just for themselves rather than a large group. If you have to potential for a large group I suggest making some large pots of food for practice during a party to test out your abilities. Or you could cook up a couple pots of food and then can them. It would be bad enough to be in a stressful situation, it would be even worse to ruin dinner and have to eat blackened whatever. I routinely cook for large groups and no matter what you will always have complainers, my food is not cooked enough, my food is cooked too much. I could care less about them so long as the food is properly cooked then that is my goal. I figure that if we have a large influx I can handle up to 20 at my place no problem so long as there is enough food to go around. I am prepared for my family and then some but not for a group of 20, this aint no soup kitchen. BTW do you have large pots and pans to cook in? Do you have a large stove such as a three burner outdoor stove? Just some things to think about.
I have a few large stainless steel cook pots from the Navy....about 6 gallon in size. Also have many large stock pots of the 3 to 3.5 gallon size. A few very large dutch ovens....some very large frying pans....and am now in search of a nice wok.....20" minimum.
Not to mention our pressure canners/ cookers....and water bath canners....the group collectively has more than a couple........to the tune of 20 to 30.....I have collected enough canners at yard sales....that I store more than a few at the BOL.
Something I am lacking in is serving ladles and spoons....guess I'll start hitting goodwill for those.
Need to plan on wood also....the gas will run out.
The Difference Between a Welfare State and a Totalitarian State is a Matter of Time.
I agree that corn is a heavy feeder. and a lot of the newer varities do only have 1 or 2 ears per stalk. However some of the older types such as hickory cane will produce more than that. I have also been trying some other older types that I got from baker creek seeds, with varying results. I hope to hit on a good one some day.
For fertilize I intend to use chicken crap as it is very high in nitrogen. Most of what I have fed since spring is just food scraps. When I cleaned out the coop I got almost enough to fertilize my whole corn patch for next year. With a larger group - more chickens = more fertilize = more crops.
I truly think I can sustain a decent corn crop to at least feed my animals. Crop rotation is the key. Also follow up corn the next year with either peas or beans to fix the nitrogen back.
And then you get back to the OLD Tennesse staple, corn liquor. That will have to be a good barter item after a while.
Good call on crop rotation! We are doing pasture rotation now, to make the most of our grazing areas. This drought & early high temps really burns the grass up, and the horses would kill it if we didn't have them on a rotation schedule.
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