Enlighten me, ol wise one. I'm not doubting your wisdom, I would just like to hear your explanation, please. I just don't remember hearing it that way is all. Thanks.
Enlighten me, ol wise one. I'm not doubting your wisdom, I would just like to hear your explanation, please. I just don't remember hearing it that way is all. Thanks.
Be safe.............the night is your friend.
Originally Posted by Brownwater Riverrat 13
Because the require a source of electricity, a coil, contacts, spark plug wires, and spark plugs. All these would be burned out in a real emp. Plus the battery, starter, starter relay, and wires would be fried.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859
The only engines that I know of that would not be effected would be diesels that are already running, or have a way to turn them over (either hydraulics, air source, or crank), steam engines, rockets, and pulse jets. As far as I know all others would be dead.
More here. http://greekgeek.hubpages.com/hub/ma...lar-flare-1859
More seriously, the solar storm battered the world's infant communication network. Telegraph wires burst into flames, touching off fires (while in other cases fire crews were called to fires that did not exist, due to the fiery lights in the sky). Telegraph machines scorched paper printouts, stunned operators with electric shocks, transmitted gibberish, and continued working for hours even after being unplugged from the batteries that powered them. The Earth itself was no longer "grounded"!
For two days, the light show and electromagnetic storm continued, then faded.
"When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes DUTY!" - Thomas Jefferson
Maybe, maybe not. Batteries are inherently EMP resistant, so are starter windings. Its electronics that are at most risk. And the older diesels have only a glow plug relay.
My understanding was that emp would fry electronics, such as anything with chips or a board.
Simple electrics, wouldn't be damaged, unless maybe they were real lightly built, and just overloaded.
If you're right, and anything that conducts electricity will no longer work, then it no longer matters what you drive.
It's done, or will be when it finally stops running, and you cannot re-start it.
We all need bicycles, or a horse.
You'd have to have a pre-computer diesel, with an engine driven fuel pump, and with a manual transmission, and the candidates for Mr Olympia to push start it.
ETA: early to late '70s vehicles, without computers still had an electronic ignition box, which would be fried. However, since it is a simple plug in box, extras could be stored appropriately. But, good condition vehicles of that age are getting rare, and parts getting more rare. There has been a definite purposeful drive to eliminate all of the older vehicles and parts from junkyards for years, as part of getting everybody driving newer vehicles, to comply with epa standards.
Liberty is not a cruise ship full of pampered passengers.
Liberty is a Man-Of-War, and we are all crew.
Explain all the telegraph wires catching fire in 1859.
- - - Updated - - -
No one has experienced a nuclear blast above a country. Just like the solar flare of 1859 anything that can carry electricity was fried, only thing that really existed then was telegraph wires and they burned causing fires all over the place. Some diesel engines have hydraulic chambers that can be pumped up by hand and when a manual button is pushed the pressurized hydraulic fluid spins a hydraulic starter which starts the engine. I pumped many of these things up. Even the Apache helicopter starts with a system like this.. Or if your diesel engine does not have a hydraulic starter system I would suggest only stopping the engine on top of a hill, and I hope you bought a manual transmission.
"When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes DUTY!" - Thomas Jefferson
Ok, you kept referring to this event in 1859, which I had never heard of, so I searched it.
What happened in 1859 was not EMP, it was a Geomagnetic Storm.
Having just looked up both EMP and this storm, I could explain it, but it's lengthy.
In short, a Geomagnetic Storm is when the Earths Magnetoshpere is disturbed by a solar wind. This increases the movement of plasma in the magnetosphere and causes an increase in the electric current in the magnetosphere and ionoshpere. In 1859, large solar flares caused a large Geomagnetic Storm. This caused increased ground induced currents, which apparently overloaded everything, causing the problems you refer to.
From what I just learned, pretty much totally different than EMP.
Liberty is not a cruise ship full of pampered passengers.
Liberty is a Man-Of-War, and we are all crew.
They are different in cause, but not different in the energy used. Both release large amounts of magnetic energy, and have the same effects on electronic and electrical devices.
What is a solar flare?
Sometimes a sudden, rapid, and intense variation in brightness is seen on the Sun. That is a solar flare. A solar flare occurs when magnetic energy that has built up in the solar atmosphere is suddenly released. On the Sun's surface are huge magnetic loops called prominences. When they touch, they short circuit each other, setting off explosions. The amount of energy released is the equivalent of millions of 100-megaton hydrogen bombs exploding at the same time! A solar flare contains high energy photons and particles, and is released from the Sun in a relatively short amount of time (a few minutes).
An electromagnetic pulse is a burst of electromagnetic energy.
Either is likely to happen and be the cause of a SHTF event. The solar flare would be much worse, because it would effect the entire world, where the nuclear emp would be more isolated. Even if these are different (Which I say their effects are the same) the op did not ask about EMP's, he was asking about SHTF events. A solar flare is probably more likely than a emp.
"When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes DUTY!" - Thomas Jefferson
From the casual reading, I am in similar conclusion. Plus a pulse and an event have different durations, regardless of the nature...
Tip 'O Da Day: Since were hovering around the EMP speculation, but before we get back on focus... Dont forget to have some old school flashlights handy, because the LED flashlights will be door stops and paper weights after such a pulse. (Given they are not stored in a real Faraday Cage.)
EB
Inductive coupling from miles and miles of wires, acting as antennas. Starter windings in a steel case, surrounded by a steel truck? Not so much. Likewise, a lead-acid battery is a giant flat plate capacitor system. Hard to damage with an EM spike when your plates are a quarter-inch thick and a half-inch apart.
Oh, I'd say that Japan has experience with a nuclear strike (atomic, anyway). So does the US, with the Starfish Prime test events causing trouble in Hawaii (it was a State in 1962).
Actually, from what I could find, they are different.
In a Geomagnetic storm, solar wind, not electricity causes a flex in the earths magnetosphere, which causes it to shift. This magnetic fluctuation makes electric current, which seeks discharge. Yes, it affects things like long electric lines, and can overload or burn out electrical things which can take the charge. But ti does not fry circuit boards en-masse. From what I could find, that would only happen if they were hooked up to a sufficiently long electrical "loop" for it to catch the current.
It apparently disturbs electrical grids, interferes with comms, and interferes with satellites, and not much else.
Apparently there are multiple types of emp charges. Lightning is one, along with electrostatic discharge, as well as the talked about nuclear. Even electrical motors and gas engines can generate low level emp. The electromagnetic pulse generates an electrical current in or on metal objects. If the current generated is more than the metal can handle, it is burned out. This would explain why circuit boards, which are covered with very fine metal are fried, but wired electrical items that have much heavier metal to carry amp loads do not. Nuclear emp has 3 components, of which apparently only one of those components are present in the solar storm. Whether or not emp affects something is also related to how much metal it is connected to, as it needs a certain amount to gather enough energy to fry the item. How much is needed is dependent on how sensitive the item is, and how much emp energy is released, and how far away it was released. Apparently, many small solid state radios would not even be affected, so long as they were not plugged in and the antenna was not extended. Also, apparently many vehicles would be left running. The electrical grid would go down not because of the lines, but because of the electronic connection and control components.
So, while a nuclear emp has the same component as a solar storm, the solar storm does not have the most damaging component (the one that fries electronics) of the nuclear emp.
Liberty is not a cruise ship full of pampered passengers.
Liberty is a Man-Of-War, and we are all crew.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks