ok guys, enough of the religious confrontations. Kesephist you make good points, and I agree in that I also do not believe in organized religion... but do believe in something. And as a distant hero of Stormy once coined: " There are no Atheists in a foxhole"

enough said.

Unfortunately, most of the people that I would welcome into my group with open arms are thousands of miles away, and baring advance notice, not likely to show up for the party. So, I do have a few friends and neighbours who know I prep and I would welcome in, albeit somewhat begrudgingly, as they would bring nothing with them save appetites... but they do have some skills, and could be taught others. The mrs and I could manage the throw back to the 1800's easy enough, it's the defending 24/7 for the first month or 6 that would be exceptionally difficult.