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Thread: We got problems in the future....

  1. #21
    Wants you to "look at what he's holding tonight".


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    I don't believe government should do anything to help individuals. People should have to fend for themselves.
    "When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes DUTY!" - Thomas Jefferson

  2. #22
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    Helomech... but what is government there for then. It is elected by the people for the people. I get what you are saying, but the alternative is horrifying. Wounded vets should not get aid, and should have to fend for themselves? The disabled (mentally and physically) should also fend for themselves? The sick? The poor and destitute? Is it really a dog eat dog world in your estimation? This is the real crux of capitalism.
    Throughout your last election Trump appealed to the middle class, blue collar worker who was upset that there were no jobs, no future. Trump said he would bring jobs back to America, stop work from leaving. And the people voted for him... yet is this not .gov intervention. Not only that, but the reason that jobs left to go overseas (manufacturing and production) wasn't that things were so bad on this side of the pond, but because profit margins could be made larger for share holders when utilizing cheap labour in places like china, Korea, Singapore, and India. So jobs left... of course they did. That is the premise of capitalism - to increase your profit margin no matter the cost. There is no social responsibility to be had or account for. Then when jobs leave, people at home lose their work. Then the blame gets put on donkeys or elephants (depending on who is in office at the time). But in reality, it's the system at fault... one that is vigorously defended by true patriots fearful of anything even remotely associated with the colour red.

    I will make one example. I hear all the time about education, how it's not fair that some people get it subsidized and not others (being aboriginal, believe me, I hear it a lot). I think we can all agree that the rising cost of education, which many are privately owned capital corporations, is out of hand. I have heard of student loans (which are .gov aided) can amount to 10s of thousands of dollars. Students are getting out of school already burdened with 40-70k worth of debt... and entering workforces that are not even close to reflecting that type of pay. So people have two options, get saddled with that debt that they will not be able to pay off, along with purchase cars and houses so that they can participate in a capitalist society, or they can choose to by-pass further education. More and more people Are choosing option number 2. Enrolment rates have dropped consistently since 2014. Which is sad because a college grad earns 2x the wage of a high school grad. This means there is less money going in to the capitalist machine. More people are working poor, which means less luxury items will be purchased, which means profit margins will fall, which means more work will get shipped overseas. It's an ugly circle.

    Let's not even talk about the cost that less people going to school has on a society. Less income = higher propensity for crime. Less education = less innovation = Country losing ground in production and manufacturing to countries that are investing in its people. I would rather live in a country of educated people than in one full of lol'ers and omg'ers. In fact, not helping the lower class actually hurts the very principles of capitalism. Makes you think, eh?

    I don't mean to sound like I'm picking a fight, I am truly not. I am just saying that to rule out a government's responsibility to its people is dangerous, and people should be careful what they ask for




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  3. #23
    looking at their tools while posting pictures of mine.
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    Caveman, I agree in most of what you say. But you chose education as your point. True, a lot of students are graduating with a huge amount of student loans. And to this, I don't blame the government, not saying you are or not, but I blame the educational system itself. Just about every year since the beginning of time, the cost of education has risen even when other things in the same line have not risen, or atleast the amount education has. We are paying college presidents millions of dollars...why? We are paying professors hundreds of thousands while the under perform...why? We are giving teachers and professors tenure...why. I didn't get tenure at PepsiCo. Does anyone else on here get a guarantee oh a paycheck forever no matter how poorly the perform.
    And the costs keep going up and up and up. This is insanity.
    "Teach the children quietly
    For someday sons and daughters
    Will rise up and fight while we stood still"

    I stayed up all night to see where the sun went. Then it dawned on me.

  4. #24
    For the Love of Cats


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    I agree and yet disagree...

    I have both college and university education... paid for by me! I worked two, and sometimes three jobs while attending higher education to pay for my tuition/books, and my rent/food/car/insurance/and play money.

    Student loans are handy for those who don't wish to work, or who don't care about being saddled with debt. I had 'friends' at the time who funded their entire scholastic career via loans... and when they graduated, they declared bankruptcy, and wiped their slate clean. And no. that's not right either.

    I firmly believe that people whom are given a free ride, take it as such, and expend the same amount of effort... those whose parents saved up for 20 years, and who worked part time jobs all their lives, put forth far greater effort into university.

    Caveman, I went to university with a status member of society as well... as per our regulations (at least at the time), he had to take and show passing marks in two courses (paid for by the gov't), in exchange, he was given free tuition/books, a house, a car and his university parking was paid for. He was given money for food and entertainment. All of his monthly bills were paid.

    When I met him, he was in his fourteenth year, finishing his second useless degree, and trying to figure out what to take for his third. He was a career student, admittingly with no plans to ever stop. in his own words 'why should I? If I stop going to school, the government would stop giving me money.'

    Domeguy, I agree with your point on tenure... I had one prof, in his late eighties, whom would come to class each day, and tell us to read pages x-y in the text book, and then fall asleep in the front of the auditorium for the next hour. day after day, class after class. hundreds of complaints... no change. he died in his sleep in his office, over ten years later, still on the payroll, and still sleeping through every class. Tenure!

    It blows my mind... the entire concept of the working poor. A couple just built a house across the road from me. both in their early twenties, right out of university, and just starting their first jobs...
    4000+ sq foot house
    2 brand new vehicles
    1 brand new quad
    1 brand new boat
    60" tv
    $10,000+ sound system
    ...
    and on and on...
    They have a million dollar, 50 year mortgage.
    Last year, the wife hit the ditch and totalled her car... they refinanced the mortgage, and bought her a brand new one.

    If either one of them gets laid off for more than a month or two, they will forfeit everything.
    If the bank rates go up, they will not be able to afford to live there, they will forfeit everything.

    So tell me, why would they think that it is necessary for them to build a $700,000 house as their 'starter home'?? Why is this becoming the 'norm'?

    ...
    Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day!
    Light a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life!

    Cat's are food... not friends!

    If you're going to fight, then fight like you're the third monkey on the ramp into Noah's arc... and brother, it's starting to rain.

  5. #25
    I have still yet to grow a brain
    Vodin's Avatar
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    Government is there to protect the people not help the people. If you want a strong population they need to learn the ropes. Not be pointed to an elevator.
    The tallest oak in the forest was once just a nut who held its ground.

    Be decisive. Right or Wrong, make a decision. The road of life is paved with flat squirrels who could not make a decision.

  6. #26
    I have still yet to grow a brain
    Vodin's Avatar
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    My education. My parents loaned me the cash for a semester and I took the courses and worked a full time job. At the end of every semester I paid them back. And then it was repeated until I got a degree. They want me to continue but I run my own business now and have little time for more education. If you don't work/pay for an 'item' you will have little respect for that item.
    The tallest oak in the forest was once just a nut who held its ground.

    Be decisive. Right or Wrong, make a decision. The road of life is paved with flat squirrels who could not make a decision.

  7. #27
    For the Love of Cats


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    ^ Good point!

    That is something I see often while out in the outdoors... it is easy to determine who worked to buy their toys (sleds/quads/boats/etc) and those who are either using mommy's and daddy's, or were given them by M&D.
    Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day!
    Light a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life!

    Cat's are food... not friends!

    If you're going to fight, then fight like you're the third monkey on the ramp into Noah's arc... and brother, it's starting to rain.

  8. #28
    Wants you to "look at what he's holding tonight".


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    Quote Originally Posted by Caveman Survival View Post
    Helomech... but what is government there for then. It is elected by the people for the people. I get what you are saying, but the alternative is horrifying. Wounded vets should not get aid, and should have to fend for themselves? The disabled (mentally and physically) should also fend for themselves? The sick? The poor and destitute? Is it really a dog eat dog world in your estimation? This is the real crux of capitalism.
    Throughout your last election Trump appealed to the middle class, blue collar worker who was upset that there were no jobs, no future. Trump said he would bring jobs back to America, stop work from leaving. And the people voted for him... yet is this not .gov intervention. Not only that, but the reason that jobs left to go overseas (manufacturing and production) wasn't that things were so bad on this side of the pond, but because profit margins could be made larger for share holders when utilizing cheap labour in places like china, Korea, Singapore, and India. So jobs left... of course they did. That is the premise of capitalism - to increase your profit margin no matter the cost. There is no social responsibility to be had or account for. Then when jobs leave, people at home lose their work. Then the blame gets put on donkeys or elephants (depending on who is in office at the time). But in reality, it's the system at fault... one that is vigorously defended by true patriots fearful of anything even remotely associated with the colour red.

    I will make one example. I hear all the time about education, how it's not fair that some people get it subsidized and not others (being aboriginal, believe me, I hear it a lot). I think we can all agree that the rising cost of education, which many are privately owned capital corporations, is out of hand. I have heard of student loans (which are .gov aided) can amount to 10s of thousands of dollars. Students are getting out of school already burdened with 40-70k worth of debt... and entering workforces that are not even close to reflecting that type of pay. So people have two options, get saddled with that debt that they will not be able to pay off, along with purchase cars and houses so that they can participate in a capitalist society, or they can choose to by-pass further education. More and more people Are choosing option number 2. Enrolment rates have dropped consistently since 2014. Which is sad because a college grad earns 2x the wage of a high school grad. This means there is less money going in to the capitalist machine. More people are working poor, which means less luxury items will be purchased, which means profit margins will fall, which means more work will get shipped overseas. It's an ugly circle.

    Let's not even talk about the cost that less people going to school has on a society. Less income = higher propensity for crime. Less education = less innovation = Country losing ground in production and manufacturing to countries that are investing in its people. I would rather live in a country of educated people than in one full of lol'ers and omg'ers. In fact, not helping the lower class actually hurts the very principles of capitalism. Makes you think, eh?

    I don't mean to sound like I'm picking a fight, I am truly not. I am just saying that to rule out a government's responsibility to its people is dangerous, and people should be careful what they ask for



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    It's duties are listed in the constitution. None of the listed powers are healthcare, and there is no right to someone else's services. Making someone work for free is slavery. Plain and simple. People need to be responsible for themselves and there loved ones. Our government is has very few enumerated powers, this is not one of them. I don't want to be taxed like yall are.

    will respond more later, I have 10 minutes to get to work.
    "When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes DUTY!" - Thomas Jefferson

  9. #29
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    Helo - You are talking constitution, I am talking capitalism. But since it is brought up let me bring this up...

    "We the People of the United States in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

    The premise of the constitution is laid out in the preamble. I point specifically to 'promote the general welfare' . To me (admittedly a non U.S. citizen of North America) this allows for education and health care for the masses. This does not go against the constitution, but it solidifies it.

    I also chuckle at your statement "... there is no right to someone else's services. Making someone work for free is slavery..." especially when your constitution was drafted and signed in while your country promoted and actively built its dominance from slavery. The inequalities that breed from vigorous capitalism do not go unnoticed.


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  10. #30
    I have still yet to grow a brain
    Vodin's Avatar
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    I should not be forced to pay for something that is 'good' for me. And in doing so since it is forced... is that not slavery?
    The tallest oak in the forest was once just a nut who held its ground.

    Be decisive. Right or Wrong, make a decision. The road of life is paved with flat squirrels who could not make a decision.

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