Outside Concrete Shelter

[bacpacker]

We've not really had condesation issues. Our basement is underground on the north side, south and west are above grade, and the east side is about half on a slope about half and half. We do have very high humidity here, so we still try to keep all mositure related issues at bay, but we've mever found mold or mildew anywhere in the basement.

The tar and plastic was applied to the outside before backfilling, The plaster mix was applied to the inside as soon as the block was laid up and motar dry.

I know what you mean about building remorse. We found plans in a magazine and once we bought them, we set down with our contractor and made some changes to them. In hindsite 17 years later, there are several things we would have done differently. some minor things we would have liked, others would have made a positive effect. Alot of it was due to being first time at building and not knowing what to do. Advace planning will help and huge amount.

[LUNCHBOX]

Well i have to have a patio poured anyway. It will be raised because my back yard is sloped. I was considering blocks, but my brick/block laying skills are lacking. My front mail box, which my buddy and I pit in, has a kind of cat in the hat swagger to it so i better get a pro. I'm looking up the ventilation aspects simple to start but upgradeable so I can have it filtered after I save up some cash. Has anyone tried this yet? I would also like my gen. incorporated into this also. Outside installation, bolted to patio. My biggest problem is how loud it is. Has anyone added mufflers to theirs?

I didn't need this but my cousins noy used a styrafoam box for the noise. Just duct taped the hell out of it and set it over it. (be careful of the heat coming from the exhaust, he used a small bathroom vent near the tailpipe) I heard it and it was a big difference.

[2600i]

how about a cement/brick picnic table to hide the stairs into the shelter instead of it being off to the side of the patio. also you could put in some observation slits toward the top and protected by the over hang of the table top. hinge the table top with a quick acting lever like on navy ships to secure the door.

[dragon5126]

Since he has a garage in place Whats the possibility of putting a "garden shed" at the back of the garage over the entrance, and putting a door in the garage into the shed, Assuming an attached garage this would prevent the need to go outside should/when (Missouri is in Tornado Alley) the need of shelter arises. Since this is being built as a "shelter" permits should allow this, however if you do go this route consider a secondary exit, not necessarily as elaborate, perhaps just a hatch just above ground level sufficent to prevent water ingress and a rung type ladder rather than stairs.

[bobthe]

Since he has a garage in place Whats the possibility of putting a "garden shed" at the back of the garage over the entrance, and putting a door in the garage into the shed, Assuming an attached garage this would prevent the need to go outside should/when (Missouri is in Tornado Alley) the need of shelter arises. Since this is being built as a "shelter" permits should allow this, however if you do go this route consider a secondary exit, not necessarily as elaborate, perhaps just a hatch just above ground level sufficent to prevent water ingress and a rung type ladder rather than stairs.

this is typically frowned upon because if a tornado comes through and turns your garage into a pile of rubble then you could be trapped an unable to opent he door. thats why most shelters are typically located a little ways away from structures. you can plan for this by having a large hydraulic ram to force the door open even if a great weight is on top of it, but obviously thats the least desireable situation to be in, shy of NOT having shelter.

[The Stig]

this is typically frowned upon because if a tornado comes through and turns your garage into a pile of rubble then you could be trapped an unable to opent he door. thats why most shelters are typically located a little ways away from structures. you can plan for this by having a large hydraulic ram to force the door open even if a great weight is on top of it, but obviously thats the least desireable situation to be in, shy of NOT having shelter.

Have to agree with bob on that one. I'd be wary of having any structure that could prevent my egress. Even worse would be if some freak turn of events caused the shed to collapse and prevented you from getting in the shelter in the first place. As dragon pointed out a secondary entrance/exit would be mandatory in you go the "hide it in the shed" approach.

But even with a secondary exit (along with it's associated complexity and cost) if it's large wooden type shed and somehow catches on fire, directly above the entrance to your hidy-hole that strikes me as a bad situation. It probably isn't going to burn that long to create oxygen problems, but it isn't going to be a good situation.

[Jerry D Young]

The above ground double wall shelter in MP-15 might work for those areas where ground water is a problem, or for those that just don't want an underground shelter.

It can be enlarged by using inside columns and a beam to make it wider and longer. I'd also make the fill thicker as well as the roof.

Just a thought.

http://standeyo.com/News_Files/NBC/n...5.fam.1959.pdf

[realist]

Hedgehog you need to check the ground water situation. Make sure that you plan for water problems, sumps will help with this. Also if you want to do this by yourself take a look at blue walls which are a concrete form that is made from foam that go together like blocks and then you pour the concrete. They look good but I do not know about the costs. If you are going to put in block and have not done it before I am going to be using Blue Max Liquid rubber, take a look at their website it is interesting. Ames' Blue Max Liquid Rubber One thing about block I was told do not go more than six high then let it dry then six more, this will prevent blow outs. Do not forget to put in bonding beams with the block. Also they make some drains that go against the wall to channel off the water if you have drainage. I understand that Op Sec is important however when you are doing things in concrete and you can get in a cement truck it is a plus. I would think that for those of you in tornado country a shelter would be the norm so that putting in a hardened one would not draw the attention that it would in my location.

[dragon5126]

Thats the southern ideology, the reality that has been proven in the north is that when a structure does come down they dont come down in a huge pile. If the storm were to blow towards the secondary exit the structure would clear the primary and vice versa, which is why it would be located off a garage which is only a shell rather than a primary structure like a house Believe me, we dont have people trapped in their basements when tornados hit, and we get hit just as often as the south does, just not always in the same locations.

[dragon5126]

Have to agree with bob on that one. I'd be wary of having any structure that could prevent my egress. Even worse would be if some freak turn of events caused the shed to collapse and prevented you from getting in the shelter in the first place. As dragon pointed out a secondary entrance/exit would be mandatory in you go the "hide it in the shed" approach.

But even with a secondary exit (along with it's associated complexity and cost) if it's large wooden type shed and somehow catches on fire, directly above the entrance to your hidy-hole that strikes me as a bad situation. It probably isn't going to burn that long to create oxygen problems, but it isn't going to be a good situation.

A large shed would not be conducive to the idea of concealing the entrance, and any underground structure should always have a secondary exit no matter what it is. Basements must be built with at least one openable window away from the primary entrance to meet code in all states for this reason. it is a matter of seconary exit as well as viable airflow. Obviously the shed would be metal, not plastic or wood, as neither of these two items have the longevity or safety factors of metal, In fact up here it isnt even legal to place a shed that is combustable against another building, as they are too often used to store fuel for lawn mowers and similar and are required to follow the rules set for dwellings as far as distance to another building, whereas metal utility sheds are almost universally exempt.