Armor for Kids

[izzyscout21]

STormy is right. Pushing through a kill zone in a vehicle is the only way to go. If you stop, you have a really god chance of not getting on the move again. Or just plain dying. 9 times out of 10, even lightly armored vehicles can make it out of an ambush zone still running. It all comes down to wheter or not the SOB shooting at you got lucky.

Also agree with Stormy on point #2. SHooting old junkers isnt really a good indicator of how effectively you could stop a vehicle. SOme engines can take more abuse than others..blah blah blah. I can tell you this:

I have personally shot multipe vehicles while on deployment. I have attempted to disable these things with 5.56mm, 7.62, and .50 BMG. Weapns ranging from the standard M-4 and M-14 to the more specialized M-24, M110 and M107.
SOmetimes it only took a round or two. SOmetimes it took 30.
5.56 and 7.62 took more hits to disable, but it was possible to do with both. The Barrett was able to do a much better job (sometimes one round, sometimes 5 or 6). But keep in mind, it is a .50 caliber weapon designed in an anti-material role.


It's all about shot placement and whether or not you get a vehicle that just does not want to die. Hitting a moving vehicle just right, every time, in the correct way, to effectively stop it....honestly...............It's a lot easier to shoot the driver.

[The Stig]

It's a lot easier to shoot the driver.

Now that is interesting....I would have assumed the reverse.

See what happens when you assume.

[ak474u]

More importantly than armor, which IMHO is important especially if the vehicle is disabled and you have to stand your ground, is the ability to stop an equally, or more armored threat. I have my own opinions on this video, but I'll stick to the facts for a second... Edinburgh Risk and Security Management Iraq - YouTube 2 people died in this ambush, because of several mistakes, one being that a vehicle was thought to be disabled because the E-Brake was on and it was in neutral, the operator believed it to be dead (according to the AAR from Edinburgh Risk) when he hit the gas, and it don't go, so he bailed to a ditch, and pretty much vapor locked, he has since made a career of training people, but that is not the point. The insurgents were shooting at them from a Suburban that was lightly armored with steel plate "hillbilly armor" these guys had MP5s and M4s, and could not shoot thru the lightweight steel plates to stop the threat, once they were in a fight for their lives, they had no weapons that would "punch thru" The company changed their SOPs on convoys after this to include at least one weapon that could fire 7.62 AP like an M14, or a PKM IIRC. These guys ran soft-skinned vehicles, and got stuck with nowhere to hide (cept Yeager, he found a spot) and ended up with 2 dead, and more injured.

[The Stig]

More importantly than armor, which IMHO is important especially if the vehicle is disabled and you have to stand your ground, is the ability to stop an equally, or more armored threat. I have my own opinions on this video, but I'll stick to the facts for a second... Edinburgh Risk and Security Management Iraq - YouTube 2 people died in this ambush, because of several mistakes, one being that a vehicle was thought to be disabled because the E-Brake was on and it was in neutral, the operator believed it to be dead (according to the AAR from Edinburgh Risk) when he hit the gas, and it don't go, so he bailed to a ditch, and pretty much vapor locked, he has since made a career of training people, but that is not the point. The insurgents were shooting at them from a Suburban that was lightly armored with steel plate "hillbilly armor" these guys had MP5s and M4s, and could not shoot thru the lightweight steel plates to stop the threat, once they were in a fight for their lives, they had no weapons that would "punch thru" The company changed their SOPs on convoys after this to include at least one weapon that could fire 7.62 AP like an M14, or a PKM IIRC. These guys ran soft-skinned vehicles, and got stuck with nowhere to hide (cept Yeager, he found a spot) and ended up with 2 dead, and more injured.

Ah....the fall of Yeager. Shame his actions contributed to the deaths of two men.

This is actually a very cool discussion. I'm going to create a new thread under transportation and invite you all, especially those with direct experience, to resume the discussion there.

This is great stuff.

ETA: For your convenience HERE is that new thread